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Triple B
Bastard of the NorthMARegistered User regular
Bastard of the NorthMARegistered User regular
At the end of April, I placed an order from the Valve Store for a few t-shirts. I paid for a mid-level shipping option, which was around 5-7 business days or somesuch. A few weeks later after several e-mails back and forth with Valve, I was informed that they *still* didn't have my items available to ship. By this point I had lost interest and asked them to cancel my order. Shortly thereafter, I received an e-mail stating that my order had been cancelled as per my request. A couple days later, I got another e-mail stating that my refund had been processed and the money had been placed back in my checking account (which I later confirmed with my bank.) This was around May 11th.
Fast-forward to today. UPS guy shows up at my door and hands me a package. "WTF?" I think to myself. "I don't remember ordering anything." I open it to find the three items I'd ordered (and subsequently cancelled) from Valve two months ago.
What are my legal obligations here? Do I keep the shit and write it off as their mistake? Do I have to contact Valve and ask them what the fuck?
tl;dr: I cancelled an order and got my money back, then they sent me the stuff anyway. What the fuck do I do?
Fast-forward to today. UPS guy shows up at my door and hands me a package. "WTF?" I think to myself. "I don't remember ordering anything." I open it to find the three items I'd ordered (and subsequently cancelled) from Valve two months ago.
What are my legal obligations here? Do I keep the shit and write it off as their mistake? Do I have to contact Valve and ask them what the fuck?
tl;dr: I cancelled an order and got my money back, then they sent me the stuff anyway. What the fuck do I do?
Steam/XBL/PSN: FiveAgainst1
Triple B on
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You contact Valve and ask them what they would like you to do.
This is a really great way to get yourself into a lot of trouble. Mistake or no, it doesn't mean those are yours now.
In all honesty it's their fuck up and they probably will just write it off, but if you really don't want free stuff on your conscience just email valve and give them the opportunity to say what they want you to do. Goes without saying you should make sure it's at their expense.
They came in one of those flimsy...like, thin plastic "envelopes". The material was as thin as the cellophane around a pack of cigarettes, but dark in color so as not to allow you to see through it. It was loaded with tape, so I had little choice but to completely destroy it to get it open.
Anyway, I've e-mailed them and now all I can do is await response.
I don't know if UPS's applicable laws are the same, but the laws governing mail through USPS are explicit in that anything you have sent to you without your consent (and I would think that canceling an order would constitute lack of consent) then you can keep the items and it very much against the law for the company who sent them to charge you.
This was my initial impression, as well. Though I am no expert regarding the laws for this kind of thing, and another major dilemma is that it's Valve. I consider myself a very loyal Valve/Steam customer, and I want to do right by them. There are most certainly some companies I wouldn't feel bad about screwing over, but Valve isn't one of them.
I wouldn't, however, pay out of pocket to return them. It's their mistake, so they should pony up.
Some quick Googling came up with...
In United States v. HELMS No. 96-1167 Crim. App. No. 31250 the appeals
court issued this opinion:
"The mistaken delivery of property to an individual who realizes the
mistake and simultaneously forms the intent to steal the property at
the moment of receipt constitutes larceny at common law. W. LaFave &
A. Scott, 2 Substantive Criminal Law § 8.2(g) at 342-43 (1986).
Furthermore, where the individual does not realize the mistake at the
time of receipt but realizes it later and then forms the requisite
intent, there is a larceny as well."
Seems pretty clear cut to me. But I could be wrong.
EDIT: There's this, which MrDelish seems to be referring to, but it appears it's meant to for things like book and record clubs (remember those?) sending shit to people and then charging them even though no one wanted them in the first place.
39 USC Sec. 3009
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 39 - POSTAL SERVICE
PART IV - MAIL MATTER
CHAPTER 30 - NONMAILABLE MATTER
-HEAD-
Sec. 3009. Mailing of unordered merchandise
-STATUTE-
(a) Except for (1) free samples clearly and conspicuously marked
as such, and (2) merchandise mailed by a charitable organization
soliciting contributions, the mailing of unordered merchandise or
of communications prohibited by subsection (c) of this section
constitutes an unfair method of competition and an unfair trade
practice in violation of section 45(a)(1) of title 15.
(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this
section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated
as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain,
use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without
any obligation whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall
have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the
recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and
has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any
manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.
(c) No mailer of any merchandise mailed in violation of
subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained
therein, shall mail to any recipient of such merchandise a bill for
such merchandise or any dunning communications.
(d) For the purposes of this section, "unordered merchandise"
means merchandise mailed without the prior expressed request or
consent of the recipient.
99.999% chance they will tell you to keep them, no charge. Returning and processing them will cost them more than they paid for them.
I think that means "delivery to the wrong address/individual" when it says "mistaken delivery." When I worked at the USPS customer service center our articles were pretty clear that unsolicited/unwanted merchandise received by mail could be kept with no threat of having to pay any associated invoices.
This is specifically what the second thing I quoted refers to, but that's not what Valve is doing at all, so it doesn't really apply.
EDIT: Not that it matters, since the OP is doing the right thing and contacting Valve rather than trying to steal from them.
Don't be a dick, call up Valve and see if they will pay shipping for a return.
The likely answer for them will be "No." unless you ordered gold bars from them or something.
What you've quoted proves what I said before, that unsolicited/unordered merchandise can be treated as a gift and doesn't need to be returned or paid for. OP wouldn't have anything at all to worry about if the item was sent by USPS. I don't know the laws concerning UPS, though, and can't find anything on google.
Regardless, I don't think Valve would have any right to demand he pay return shipping for the items.
No, it doesn't. It was a mistake, not unsolicited. Go read Thanatos' link to get an idea what this is meant for. Read the last part as well. It was priorly ordered and consent was given, just cancelled after.
Anyhow, I'm out!
A) Free advertising having their shirts walking around
So, you did the right thing by letting them know. If they do ask for them back, make them pay for shipping since it's their fuckup.
I'm aware of the invoice+unwanted merchandise scam but the law still applies to any "unwanted merchandise." The law doesn't cite intent at all so, mistake or not, it's still unsolicited. OP may have more obligation since it was sent UPS, but wouldn't had it been sent USPS. Regardless, Valve will probably say "don't bother returning it, just keep it" like most other retailers do with things like this.
Thanatos's post is essentially correct, though. You ordered these, then cancelled. They shipped anyway. Whoops! Enjoy your t-shirts. But it can't hurt to call them up.
Just to chime in, the case that Esh quoted earlier 1) was an appeal from a military court and 2) dealt with a service member erroneously receiving extra pay and failing to give it back. The statement of law cited from that case is likely still in effect but only deals with simple larceny (since that is what the service member was charged with under military law).
Basically, it doesn't apply in this case since there are quite a few factors that alter the "factual substratum" [lawyer talk] of the situation here.
Anyways, the smartest course was the one already taken - just ask Valve what their intent was. One thing is for sure though: they can't force you to pay for them now.
Yeah, no I checked my bank and I still have all the money I should have. I'll post a follow up when I hear back from Valve in probably a few days. Thanks for all the help, duders. You are gents of the classiest order.
If they do ask for the shirts back, you should not be paying any return shipping charges or restocking fees, since it was their mistake. They should be issuing you a call tag, probably by email, that you'll print out and tape to the box, and UPS will come get it from your doorway on the designated day.
So, unless this is a couple of palettes of T-shirts...
hehe, this is correct. Minimum value before parties need to declare recepit of a gift is $10,000 in a single tax year.
Yeah, you should go find a small, unmarked box that they'll all fit in. Stuff them inside along with the original packing receipt. Don't seal it up just yet in case Fed Ex needs to reference something on the receipt though.
Is that a problem?
Valve probably provided FedEx with the address and shipping label to use. I would just wait to hear back from them.
Put them in a shopping bag, wrap the fuck out of it and send it off.
I don't think that's going to fly. What he's describing as the original packaging is actually quite a bit more durable than he makes it out to be. Since he opened a strange package and then discarded the packaging after realizing "Hey, these aren't mine.", I'd say he should probably get something a little more sturdy to ship the products back in.
It's not his job to spend time or money correcting their mistake. Nor is it particularly unreasonable that he opened a package delivered to him to find out what was inside. In short Valve are unreasonable if they expect him to have the original packaging in perfect condition, so they're just going to have to take whatever he has lying about.
I would say that just by looking at it, feeling it, and realizing who the sender was, he should have realized right then and there what it was, emailed Valve, and never opened it. Also, throwing away the packaging after opening it? Yeah, he's got some responsibility. What he needs to do is spend the time and money correcting his mistake that he made by opening the package that was obviously mis-sent.
EDIT: Besides, I'm sure he has something a little more sturdy than a shopping bag lying around, so it's probably no big deal.
Is not particularly telling, though. I've seen some pretty cryptic return-to addresses from online stores. Those little bubblewrap thingies are pretty durable despite their appearance.
Just grab a small box and shove them in. They're shirts not bombs.
He doesn't have any responsibility for their mis-shipment. There was no mistake made, he opened a package delivered to him. He probably did not take a knife and cut along the seam neatly for resealing. This is sad, unfortunately, but not really his problem they fucked up and that he didn't treat it like it was the holy grail. Before this spirals way the fuck out of control about what is and isn't his responsibility, the post office carries boxes that you can have for free.