nothing worse than scouting dts and then losing because you can't leave your base.
he did nice warp prism harass I'll give him that
dts are better than banshees
edit - 3-6 today. I was pretty sloppy. trying to be a little too flexible and ended up losing a couple because I did things I'm not used to (first game specifically I tried an earlier attack than usual when I saw an fe because of what I saw jinro do in gsl. it was a dumb move!). lost to iechoic build because it's unbeatable. lost to a stalker void ray all in because I got conc shell before stim which I never do. arghgh.
the losses are less frustrating though when I'm so aware of how badly I'm playing. I only really deserved one of the wins. one was a failed baneling bust and one was close positions metal vs. Z... not that it's impossible to win for Z but he also played pretty badly, I think he was panicked from the get go. only good game was a tvp on tal darim where my attack was timed correctly and I took down an expo. then a drop scouted his tech choice and it was easy from there.
Do you stream or can you post some replays? Would like to see a Masters T in action.
chuckleberryfinn on
No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I'll post some replays on a better day
ummmm, dts do great damage in an army too, don't know why you think they're a one trick pony. and archons count expensive or no.
Look Tanner, I'm a skeptical person. I want to see evidence of something from top level play before I'm going to say it is good. As far as the muta thing you're reading way to much into it. ZM said he'd seen mutas even against 6 gate lately. I said I'm down on mutas because I haven't seen any top pro games where mutas have been the solution to a 6-7 gate pressure which is super popular right now. You just said San went stargate first which is totally different. If he did go straight up stalker focused pressure and Sheth went muta to defend and it worked then I'm all for investigating mutas against that style. I was expressing my skepticism that muta was any good against the 6 gate style mentioned by ZM originally. I just gave you an example earlier of muta play I thought was great. I don't see the big deal.
More controversially in that same post I said machine and spanishiwa weren't good pros. Ive not backtracked from this statement at all. Machine's 43% winrate does not qualify him as a good pro in my book, and his recent performance in tournament play says mediocre pro to me. That's not trolling that's just what his lack of success tells me. You disagree, that's fine, but I'm not trying to save face and claim otherwise.
Enigma435 on
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Look Tanner, I'm a skeptical person. I want to see evidence of something from top level play before I'm going to say it is good. As far as the muta thing you're reading way to much into it. ZM said he'd seen mutas even against 6 gate lately. I said I'm down on mutas because I haven't seen any top pro games where mutas have been the solution to a 6-7 gate pressure which is super popular right now. You just said San went stargate first which is totally different. If he did go straight up stalker focused pressure and Sheth went muta to defend and it worked then I'm all for investigating mutas against that style. I was expressing my skepticism that muta was any good against the 6 gate style mentioned by ZM originally. I just gave you an example earlier of muta play I thought was great. I don't see the big deal.
More controversially in that same post I said machine and spanishiwa weren't good pros. Ive not backtracked from this statement at all. Machine's 43% winrate does not qualify him as a good pro in my book, and his recent performance in tournament play says mediocre pro to me. That's not trolling that's just what his lack of success tells me. You disagree, that's fine, but I'm not trying to save face and claim otherwise.
I disagree with everything you said there but I guess I respect that you can think it anyways. I tend to look at what I think people mean instead of what they say they mean and it's a bad thing to do. My bad
perhaps i need to clarify the builds im seeing so were not making assumptions
Basically the build im seeing is a protoss ffe, 6 gate which machine, spanish, vibe have held off initially with ling spine and then delayed as much as they can to pop around 10-12 mutas at once, they use the mutas to snipe the pylons and then take advantage of the spread damage against stalkers with ling support. With these builds i did not see blink, it was a standard early ish 6 gate off an ffe, id guess 40 probes maybe, early and without upgrade.
I should also say ive seen this held around 5 times with mutas, only on ladder though. And when i say held i say held just and then the fact they have mtuas means the coutner is brutal and game winning.
If you disagree with any of specific points above I'm happy to hear your reasoning about any of the specific items. I'm wrong plenty of times about starcraft and if given the appropriate evidence I'm happy to admit it. When baneling drop play was coming around I thought it was going to be a fad, but watching morrow and others over the last few months has totally convinced me otherwise. As far as machine goes where would you rank him amongst all foreign sc2 players? I see him somewhere between 30-50 and since I see the scene with a pretty big gap from the top 20 players or so I'd rank that group of players as mediocre, capable of winning some games against good players but not a threat to win a tournament or group. Do you see his level differently?
Enigma435 on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Step 1) Scout it. Look for only 2 marines, double factory, and a dropped supply depot/
Step 2) Build an Armory, then a thor
Step 3) Put your units in your mineral line
Step 4) THOR RUSH THAT MOTHERGOOSER
I did all this but how can you leave your base with bfh coming in regularly?
by the time I was able to attack with 2 thors and 10 or so marauders, he had a BC which destroyed my 2 thors no contest.
should I have just sent the first thor by itself? if that's the right response that's great, perhaps I just waited too long. once he had BCs and a few vikings I had absolutely no chance.
any word on season 3 start date? played terran season 1, toss season 2 and so I feel it's time to finish the job, which I may or may not need to begin by dropping myself to bronze to get a handle on zerg mechanics.
I hate Ghosts. I HATE them. As great a spell as Storm is, I laugh when T's complain about it because EMP is superior in just about every way.
Please critique me in my replay. Usual gold level shit. I wiped three of his bases and had 4 mining for a decent time, when it came to the clash of the titans, one EMP crippled my entire deathball .
One positive I took away from that replay was that my average APM has increased by about 30% in the last 2 months! yay!
I hate Ghosts. I HATE them. As great a spell as Storm is, I laugh when T's complain about it because EMP is superior in just about every way.
Please critique me in my replay. Usual gold level shit. I wiped three of his bases and had 4 mining for a decent time, when it came to the clash of the titans, one EMP crippled my entire deathball .
You forgot workers a lot, throughout the whole game. It didnt really make you lose since the enemy did as well, but that is something easy to work on. You didn't upgrade much, you chronoed probes too much when you should have been chronoboosting colossi, range and upgrades instead. Don't forget to scout with zealot and stalker at the start too. The first fight was bad, half your army just walked away. You did suffer for not having enough workers late game though, but that isn't too important really. The reason you lost if because he went marauder viking which basically hard counters colosii stalker.
if you scout that you have to get charge zealots.
Fizban140 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I hate being in Australia playing SC2.
There is not a single server where I get the kind of non-existent latency that Americans get on NA, Koreans get on KR, and Europeans get on EU.
SEA latency to Australia is barely better than NA, and worse than to KR.
Its ridiculous and the only reason is that either Blizzard doesn't realise or care how many Australians play, or doesn't even know that 150-200ms is not anything remotely approaching decent latency. I'm at an automatic handicap vs literally every single person I play unless they're from Australia too. Bleh.
There is not a single server where I get the kind of non-existent latency that Americans get on NA, Koreans get on KR, and Europeans get on EU.
SEA latency to Australia is barely better than NA, and worse than to KR.
Its ridiculous and the only reason is that either Blizzard doesn't realise or care how many Australians play, or doesn't even know that 150-200ms is not anything remotely approaching decent latency. I'm at an automatic handicap vs literally every single person I play unless they're from Australia too. Bleh.
Move to the US, we have seasons. And low ping.
Really though, not a lot blizzard can do is there? I guess the matchmaking blows, it was pretty bad for me in Korea trying to play FPS games. I can't imagine though that there aren't enough australians to play with though, you are getting matched against other countries?
sylem beat me to your replay, so I just wanted to note a small flaw that I personally do all the time, that being forgetting to take gasses on expansions. I think with your stalker/colo army waiting 3-4 minutes to take the gasses at your third put you behind on upgrades and made it much harder for you to recover after having so many of your colossi sniped.
edit: finally got to the end after having to make some phone calls...that is the hardest of hard counters to your build with better upgrades. ouch.
edit2: you fought his army in the worst position possible, should have let him funnel through there if he really wanted to fight
Torgairon on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
There is not a single server where I get the kind of non-existent latency that Americans get on NA, Koreans get on KR, and Europeans get on EU.
SEA latency to Australia is barely better than NA, and worse than to KR.
Its ridiculous and the only reason is that either Blizzard doesn't realise or care how many Australians play, or doesn't even know that 150-200ms is not anything remotely approaching decent latency. I'm at an automatic handicap vs literally every single person I play unless they're from Australia too. Bleh.
Move to the US, we have seasons. And low ping.
Really though, not a lot blizzard can do is there? I guess the matchmaking blows, it was pretty bad for me in Korea trying to play FPS games. I can't imagine though that there aren't enough australians to play with though, you are getting matched against other countries?
No there isn't, well, except make servers in Australia, but no game company in the world has ever done that.
sylem beat me to your replay, so I just wanted to note a small flaw that I personally do all the time, that being forgetting to take gasses on expansions. I think with your stalker/colo army waiting 3-4 minutes to take the gasses at your third put you behind on upgrades and made it much harder for you to recover after having so many of your colossi sniped.
edit: finally got to the end after having to make some phone calls...that is the hardest of hard counters to your build with better upgrades. ouch.
edit2: you fought his army in the worst position possible, should have let him funnel through there if he really wanted to fight
Thanks, guys. Anyone else got any tips?
I kinda thought Colossi were the hard counter to marauders... the trick is just getting enough stalkers to zap the vikings
Also - how bad am I, seriously?
Spaffy on
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
0
Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Dhal: please PM me replays of what you do (successfully) against 15 hatch, and the ling-roach all in, and early Terran bio pressure, thanks. Kept losing to them all last night after a good streak. Should've gone to sleep while I was ahead
Seguer on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
sylem beat me to your replay, so I just wanted to note a small flaw that I personally do all the time, that being forgetting to take gasses on expansions. I think with your stalker/colo army waiting 3-4 minutes to take the gasses at your third put you behind on upgrades and made it much harder for you to recover after having so many of your colossi sniped.
edit: finally got to the end after having to make some phone calls...that is the hardest of hard counters to your build with better upgrades. ouch.
edit2: you fought his army in the worst position possible, should have let him funnel through there if he really wanted to fight
Thanks, guys. Anyone else got any tips?
I kinda thought Colossi were the hard counter to marauders... the trick is just getting enough stalkers to zap the vikings
Also - how bad am I, seriously?
Colossi are okay against marauders but you really need zealots to take hits and tear them up. Marauders kill colossi very fast, and stalkers even faster. Basically your army melted to marauders. The only reason colossi are good against bio ball is because they do a lot of AoE damage while other units support them.
Stalker Colossi can work against zerg because zerg doesn't have a single unit that can deal with Colossi stalker, it takes a combo. Terran can basically 1a marauder ball and win.
Things to work on in every game, constantly build workers, try to scout more and just focus on macro in general. You didn't do terrible, your biggest mistakes were slipping on worker production and not responding to his army comp properly.
sylem beat me to your replay, so I just wanted to note a small flaw that I personally do all the time, that being forgetting to take gasses on expansions. I think with your stalker/colo army waiting 3-4 minutes to take the gasses at your third put you behind on upgrades and made it much harder for you to recover after having so many of your colossi sniped.
edit: finally got to the end after having to make some phone calls...that is the hardest of hard counters to your build with better upgrades. ouch.
edit2: you fought his army in the worst position possible, should have let him funnel through there if he really wanted to fight
Thanks, guys. Anyone else got any tips?
I kinda thought Colossi were the hard counter to marauders... the trick is just getting enough stalkers to zap the vikings
Also - how bad am I, seriously?
this is probably dumb but I'd say colossi counter marines and marine/marauder while not countering pure marauder, especially not with vikings. in your game, you and your opponent sort of made it a silly engagement with the way you both treated that choke, but with pure marauder vs. stalker/colossus with no zealots to buffer I'd imagine that the terran can just stim, rush in and murder everything, whereas if you did the same thing with marines the colossi would thin their numbers by 50% or more before they even got into the range required for it to be a real engagement. marauders just shrug it off and run in to both snipe colossi w/ viking support and murder stalkers with the damage bonus.
I myself don't really know the magic composition to deal with vikings, which you may find surprising as I am a gold superstar. also, I don't really play so you're better than me by default!
Torgairon on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
The purpose of the stalkers in stalker/colossus is to tank the damage while the colossus deal it. This works against Zerg because Zerg has no units (besides the ultralisk) that do +Armoured damage vs ground in any form, so stalkers tank very well..
They do not fulfil this role well against Terran, and you need zealots and sentries too to a) take hits and b) reduce the opponent concave.
This surprised me a lot. Of all the gateway units, I thought Stalkers were the best vs. Marauders because they can just kill zealots before they get in range. I guess I've been approaching these situations all wrong
Dhal: please PM me replays of what you do (successfully) against 15 hatch, and the ling-roach all in, and early Terran bio pressure, thanks. Kept losing to them all last night after a good streak. Should've gone to sleep while I was ahead
I'm too lazy to slog through these looking for specific examples but feel free to download all my 1v1's from the past few months
The purpose of the stalkers in stalker/colossus is to tank the damage while the colossus deal it. This works against Zerg because Zerg has no units (besides the ultralisk) that do +Armoured damage vs ground in any form, so stalkers tank very well..
They do not fulfil this role well against Terran, and you need zealots and sentries too to a) take hits and b) reduce the opponent concave.
The purpose of the stalkers in stalker/colossus is to tank the damage while the colossus deal it. This works against Zerg because Zerg has no units (besides the ultralisk) that do +Armoured damage vs ground in any form, so stalkers tank very well..
They do not fulfil this role well against Terran, and you need zealots and sentries too to a) take hits and b) reduce the opponent concave.
The purpose of the stalkers in stalker/colossus is to tank the damage while the colossus deal it. This works against Zerg because Zerg has no units (besides the ultralisk) that do +Armoured damage vs ground in any form, so stalkers tank very well..
They do not fulfil this role well against Terran, and you need zealots and sentries too to a) take hits and b) reduce the opponent concave.
Also, not to sound too degrading, but Machine is about as far from a solid pro as I can think of. He's better than most players, but we really have no evidence to suggest machine is a good pro. I think it is likely spanishiwa is better than him.
Idra thinks Machine is one of the best macro zergs in the world. I am sure it is a little biased, but greg doesn't fuck around.
I stopped listening to IdrA's opinions on other Zergs after he called Nestea, July and DRG bad. Machine may be good in practice, but let's be honest: his results are very underwhelming (43.5% winrate, 1 win from his last 13 games, 343rd in ELO).
This surprised me a lot. Of all the gateway units, I thought Stalkers were the best vs. Marauders because they can just kill zealots before they get in range. I guess I've been approaching these situations all wrong
No gateway unit is good against Marauders on their own. You need Zealots to tank damage & hopefully get a few hits in, Stalkers to deal damage, and Sentries to stop them from running away.
Posts
DTs are a one trick pony. Banshees are phenominal at both harass and when included with a big army.
Yes DTs can become archons, but those archons are expensive as fuck.
Do you stream or can you post some replays? Would like to see a Masters T in action.
ummmm, dts do great damage in an army too, don't know why you think they're a one trick pony. and archons count expensive or no.
Steps for beating iechoic in TvT:
Step 1) Scout it. Look for only 2 marines, double factory, and a dropped supply depot/
Step 2) Build an Armory, then a thor
Step 3) Put your units in your mineral line
Step 4) THOR RUSH THAT MOTHERGOOSER
More controversially in that same post I said machine and spanishiwa weren't good pros. Ive not backtracked from this statement at all. Machine's 43% winrate does not qualify him as a good pro in my book, and his recent performance in tournament play says mediocre pro to me. That's not trolling that's just what his lack of success tells me. You disagree, that's fine, but I'm not trying to save face and claim otherwise.
I disagree with everything you said there but I guess I respect that you can think it anyways. I tend to look at what I think people mean instead of what they say they mean and it's a bad thing to do. My bad
Basically the build im seeing is a protoss ffe, 6 gate which machine, spanish, vibe have held off initially with ling spine and then delayed as much as they can to pop around 10-12 mutas at once, they use the mutas to snipe the pylons and then take advantage of the spread damage against stalkers with ling support. With these builds i did not see blink, it was a standard early ish 6 gate off an ffe, id guess 40 probes maybe, early and without upgrade.
I should also say ive seen this held around 5 times with mutas, only on ladder though. And when i say held i say held just and then the fact they have mtuas means the coutner is brutal and game winning.
I did all this but how can you leave your base with bfh coming in regularly?
by the time I was able to attack with 2 thors and 10 or so marauders, he had a BC which destroyed my 2 thors no contest.
should I have just sent the first thor by itself? if that's the right response that's great, perhaps I just waited too long. once he had BCs and a few vikings I had absolutely no chance.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
WE MUST BATTLE
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This gold bashing has to stop.
I can stomp plat and diamond but can't get promoted. QQ
Took me a second, then a laughed out loud.
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I got it before you.
Please critique me in my replay. Usual gold level shit. I wiped three of his bases and had 4 mining for a decent time, when it came to the clash of the titans, one EMP crippled my entire deathball
One positive I took away from that replay was that my average APM has increased by about 30% in the last 2 months! yay!
Steam: adamjnet
You forgot workers a lot, throughout the whole game. It didnt really make you lose since the enemy did as well, but that is something easy to work on. You didn't upgrade much, you chronoed probes too much when you should have been chronoboosting colossi, range and upgrades instead. Don't forget to scout with zealot and stalker at the start too. The first fight was bad, half your army just walked away. You did suffer for not having enough workers late game though, but that isn't too important really. The reason you lost if because he went marauder viking which basically hard counters colosii stalker.
if you scout that you have to get charge zealots.
There is not a single server where I get the kind of non-existent latency that Americans get on NA, Koreans get on KR, and Europeans get on EU.
SEA latency to Australia is barely better than NA, and worse than to KR.
Its ridiculous and the only reason is that either Blizzard doesn't realise or care how many Australians play, or doesn't even know that 150-200ms is not anything remotely approaching decent latency. I'm at an automatic handicap vs literally every single person I play unless they're from Australia too. Bleh.
Move to the US, we have seasons. And low ping.
Really though, not a lot blizzard can do is there? I guess the matchmaking blows, it was pretty bad for me in Korea trying to play FPS games. I can't imagine though that there aren't enough australians to play with though, you are getting matched against other countries?
I guess Sweden made some sort of deal with the devil.
edit: finally got to the end after having to make some phone calls...that is the hardest of hard counters to your build with better upgrades. ouch.
edit2: you fought his army in the worst position possible, should have let him funnel through there if he really wanted to fight
No there isn't, well, except make servers in Australia, but no game company in the world has ever done that.
where have I heard this before?
I think that the bashing came from the Vari-stalker a couple nights ago.
Joe's Stream.
Thanks, guys. Anyone else got any tips?
I kinda thought Colossi were the hard counter to marauders... the trick is just getting enough stalkers to zap the vikings
Also - how bad am I, seriously?
Steam: adamjnet
check some of my PvZ replays from there
haven't got time to sort through them right now
Stalker Colossi can work against zerg because zerg doesn't have a single unit that can deal with Colossi stalker, it takes a combo. Terran can basically 1a marauder ball and win.
Things to work on in every game, constantly build workers, try to scout more and just focus on macro in general. You didn't do terrible, your biggest mistakes were slipping on worker production and not responding to his army comp properly.
this is probably dumb but I'd say colossi counter marines and marine/marauder while not countering pure marauder, especially not with vikings. in your game, you and your opponent sort of made it a silly engagement with the way you both treated that choke, but with pure marauder vs. stalker/colossus with no zealots to buffer I'd imagine that the terran can just stim, rush in and murder everything, whereas if you did the same thing with marines the colossi would thin their numbers by 50% or more before they even got into the range required for it to be a real engagement. marauders just shrug it off and run in to both snipe colossi w/ viking support and murder stalkers with the damage bonus.
I myself don't really know the magic composition to deal with vikings, which you may find surprising as I am a gold superstar. also, I don't really play so you're better than me by default!
They do not fulfil this role well against Terran, and you need zealots and sentries too to a) take hits and b) reduce the opponent concave.
This surprised me a lot. Of all the gateway units, I thought Stalkers were the best vs. Marauders because they can just kill zealots before they get in range. I guess I've been approaching these situations all wrong
Steam: adamjnet
I'm too lazy to slog through these looking for specific examples but feel free to download all my 1v1's from the past few months
http://www.mediafire.com/?363vi4mr9n8k5d7
Edit: Ignore his link, I'm better at SC2 kekekeke
er... roaches do +damage to armored...
Joe's Stream.
Are you suuuuuuure?
No gateway unit is good against Marauders on their own. You need Zealots to tank damage & hopefully get a few hits in, Stalkers to deal damage, and Sentries to stop them from running away.
I mean, it's true if your criteria is just "has the strongest clan war anchor outside of Korean teams."
No decent players aside from IdrA.