Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Man, this show must be awesome if the Internet can't even agree that the bad guy is necessarily Wrong and Evil or not.
Shit, they should show it in Civics classes.
I think it's hard to argue bender vs. non-bender class oppression when we have lots and lots of examples of poor benders living in rural settings (swamp benders), doing menial tasks (literally dozens, from factory work to pushing public trains non-benders ride), being exploited by their non-bending employers, and so on. The elite might be mostly benders, but benders are not the elite.
Basically, you're buying into Amon's BS argument! Demagoguery works, even in a cartoon.
Was the Earth King in TLA even a bender? I don't recall ever seeing him bend anything.
Wasn't he a massively powerful bender who at some point earth bended using only his face?
No that was Aang's old friend, the reigning Earth King in TLA had a pet bear who he liked to put hats on.
What kind of bear? Platypus-bear?
Nope, just a bear.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
I think it's hard to argue bender vs. non-bender class oppression when we have lots and lots of examples of poor benders living in rural settings (swamp benders), doing menial tasks (literally dozens, from factory work to pushing public trains non-benders ride), being exploited by their non-bending employers, and so on. The elite might be mostly benders, but benders are not the elite.
Basically, you're buying into Amon's BS argument! Demagoguery works, even in a cartoon.
Was the Earth King in TLA even a bender? I don't recall ever seeing him bend anything.
Wasn't he a massively powerful bender who at some point earth bended using only his face?
No that was Aang's old friend, the reigning Earth King in TLA had a pet bear who he liked to put hats on.
What kind of bear? Platypus-bear?
Or maybe an Armadillo-bear?
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I think it's hard to argue bender vs. non-bender class oppression when we have lots and lots of examples of poor benders living in rural settings (swamp benders), doing menial tasks (literally dozens, from factory work to pushing public trains non-benders ride), being exploited by their non-bending employers, and so on. The elite might be mostly benders, but benders are not the elite.
Basically, you're buying into Amon's BS argument! Demagoguery works, even in a cartoon.
Was the Earth King in TLA even a bender? I don't recall ever seeing him bend anything.
Wasn't he a massively powerful bender who at some point earth bended using only his face?
No that was Aang's old friend, the reigning Earth King in TLA had a pet bear who he liked to put hats on.
Man, this show must be awesome if the Internet can't even agree that the bad guy is necessarily Wrong and Evil or not.
Shit, they should show it in Civics classes.
I kinda think it's because people on this here part of the internet tend to sympathize with class warfare appeals to emotion and thoughtless hatred of the elite, not because the show has done a good job of setting up an ambiguous badguy.
The show's presentation is pretty straightforward: problems exist, and the leaders aren't addressing them well. Amon is taking advantage of unrest for his own secret nefarious plans involving the avatar, whom he was expecting to arrive in order to move forward. He's indiscriminate in condemnation and in summary judgment, his henchmen are often just as faceless as him, and he's clearly Up To No Good.
It's being invested with more meaning by people bringing their own baggage to the table.
I think it's hard to argue bender vs. non-bender class oppression when we have lots and lots of examples of poor benders living in rural settings (swamp benders), doing menial tasks (literally dozens, from factory work to pushing public trains non-benders ride), being exploited by their non-bending employers, and so on. The elite might be mostly benders, but benders are not the elite.
Basically, you're buying into Amon's BS argument! Demagoguery works, even in a cartoon.
Was the Earth King in TLA even a bender? I don't recall ever seeing him bend anything.
Wasn't he a massively powerful bender who at some point earth bended using only his face?
No that was Aang's old friend, the reigning Earth King in TLA had a pet bear who he liked to put hats on.
You all miss the most important comparison: Sato is clearly smarter than the vast majority of Republic City, and he used that intelligence to get rich. Surely Amon should be lobotomizing him, right? He wants everyone to be equal, but that's never going to happen until everyone is as dumb as the dumbest person.
You all miss the most important comparison: Sato is clearly smarter than the vast majority of Republic City, and he used that intelligence to get rich. Surely Amon should be lobotomizing him, right? He wants everyone to be equal, but that's never going to happen until everyone is as dumb as the dumbest person.
So you support randomly assigning guns to people at birth?
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It's more like giving some people an empty gun at birth, but to get bullets for it they need to dedicate their life to a discipline. :P
It's more like giving some people an empty gun at birth, but to get bullets for it they need to dedicate their life to a discipline. :P
No. They need to dedicate their life to a discipline if they want to get a sniper scope or some other such thing. They get bullets once they've practice pulling the trigger for a couple weeks.
Yes let's look at the nefarious things Amon has done.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
She didn't tear apart a city block; she did bring three criminals to justice with no motive other than stopping someone who was doing something wrong.
And in the process, she caused a tremendous amount of damage to public and private property, as Bei Fong noted. It's nice to see actual consequences sometimes for the rampant destruction heroes tend to cause.
You all miss the most important comparison: Sato is clearly smarter than the vast majority of Republic City, and he used that intelligence to get rich. Surely Amon should be lobotomizing him, right? He wants everyone to be equal, but that's never going to happen until everyone is as dumb as the dumbest person.
So you support randomly assigning guns to people at birth?
I still do not see how this differs in any way from being significantly smarter or stronger than other people.
Hypothetical: Say you have a race of people, with purple skin. They are all twice as smart as the rest of the population. They are 3 times as strong. As such they tend to get good jobs, get put in positions of authority, etc. Some of them are bad, some of them are good, either way, they are capable of making very significant impacts to everyone around them.
Yes let's look at the nefarious things Amon has done.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
She didn't tear apart a city block; she did bring three criminals to justice with no motive other than stopping someone who was doing something wrong.
Amon? If you think he really gives a damn about oppression at the hands of the bending elite, you are going to be surprised.
She tore it apart pretty well. I mean, were it not for Tenzin stepping in to pay for everything, several people's lives were probably about to get completely ruined.
Now yes, she's almost certainly better-intentioned than Amon. But for the common person, it's not hard to look at that and be a bit concerned with Benders just walking the streets.
Don't fully understand how you could write that first and last sentence without any sense of irony over "baggage"
It's because the two sentences aren't in conflict with one another, at all.
Referring to the fact that you constantly make similar complaints of "this here part of the internet".
So far, we have seen a lot of benders terrorizing non-benders. While I'm not convinced Amon will be nearly as equalizing as he portrays himself, I think it's interesting to see.
You all miss the most important comparison: Sato is clearly smarter than the vast majority of Republic City, and he used that intelligence to get rich. Surely Amon should be lobotomizing him, right? He wants everyone to be equal, but that's never going to happen until everyone is as dumb as the dumbest person.
So you support randomly assigning guns to people at birth?
I still do not see how this differs in any way from being significantly smarter or stronger than other people.
Hypothetical: Say you have a race of people, with purple skin. They are all twice as smart as the rest of the population. They are 3 times as strong. As such they tend to get good jobs, get put in positions of authority, etc. Some of them are bad, some of them are good, either way, they are capable of making very significant impacts to everyone around them.
What should be done about them?
We'd probably agree that nothing should be done with them. But many, many people would not like that, and if there was a way to take away their extra strength and intelligence, lots of people would rally around that.
Yes let's look at the nefarious things Amon has done.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
Wow, did I really just read this? I mean... did you mean to type what you did or was that entire middle sentence some bizarre smartphone keyboard mishap?
Amon's actions was the equivalent of crippling someone as punishment dealt entirely outside the law. Being born with a talent is not a crime and committing a crime does not justify rounding up your friends and removing the source of that person's talent, whether that be bending or mathematics.
You all miss the most important comparison: Sato is clearly smarter than the vast majority of Republic City, and he used that intelligence to get rich. Surely Amon should be lobotomizing him, right? He wants everyone to be equal, but that's never going to happen until everyone is as dumb as the dumbest person.
Intelligent people are better at business and engineering. Should we start a "stupidest" movement to knock some lack-of-sense into those bastards because they are naturally gifted beyond what us normals can do?
Yes let's look at the nefarious things Amon has done.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
Wow, did I really just read this? I mean... did you mean to type what you did or was that entire middle sentence some bizarre smartphone keyboard mishap?
Amon's actions was the equivalent of crippling someone as punishment dealt entirely outside the law. Being born with a talent is not a crime and committing a crime does not justify rounding up your friends and removing the source of that person's talent, whether that be bending or mathematics.
So non benders aren't at a disadvantage to benders but to take away someone's bending is equal to crippling them.
And Korra's actions are no less vigilante as Bei Fang was happy to point out. And hers were far more dangerous.
Face it, this is a universe that is saved by virtue of it existing on Saturday morning for a 10-16 audience. Some suspension of disbelief is required. Because otherwise yeah, if you mix real world logic into it, people should be freaking the fuck out that people can destroy city blocks by stomping their feet, or create infernos from thin air.
Best to quietly ignore the "walking weapons of mass destruction"... unless the show decides to acknowledge it first.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I don't think we'd be having this discussion if Amon had broken the guy's kneecaps or gouged out his eyes
Because that would actually be crippling them. As many people have been so eager to point out, while they can no longer bend people who can't bend are clearly in no way at a disadvantage to those who can.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It's having an integral part of their life removed. The 2 instances we've seen of it, the guy tries to bend after and flops and falls down, like he has no equilibrium anymore - cause a part of him is missing. It's just as bad as taking a limb / eye / whatever, imo.
Yes let's look at the nefarious things Amon has done.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
Wow, did I really just read this? I mean... did you mean to type what you did or was that entire middle sentence some bizarre smartphone keyboard mishap?
Amon's actions was the equivalent of crippling someone as punishment dealt entirely outside the law. Being born with a talent is not a crime and committing a crime does not justify rounding up your friends and removing the source of that person's talent, whether that be bending or mathematics.
So non benders aren't at a disadvantage to benders but to take away someone's bending is equal to crippling them.
And Korra's actions are no less vigilante as Bei Fang was happy to point out. And hers were far more dangerous.
Woah there buddy, I never said non-benders weren't at a disadvantage. Frankly, if I were structuring society for the Avatar universe I would be way more progressive about it. Being a non-bender would be something of a protected class of citizen, they would have secondary schools and things setup directly to teach them how to provide for themselves and their families without bending abilities.
Frankly I would probably make all benders register with the government and subject them to harsher crime laws equivalent to their increased capacity to destroy objects.
With all that said I think its silly to compare Korra's actions to those of Amon. Amon kidnapped and crippled people, Korra intervened in an assault on a less-abled person and damaged some property in the process. Sure she committed crimes but motivations matter.
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I don't think we'd be having this discussion if Amon had broken the guy's kneecaps or gouged out his eyes
Because that would actually be crippling them. As many people have been so eager to point out, while they can no longer bend people who can't bend are clearly in no way at a disadvantage to those who can.
Tell that to people like Toph who are so reliant on their ability to bend that they cannot function without it. Take away earthbending and then she's a blind girl who literally had her sight taken away, no different from gouging out Sokkas eyes.
And you can pretty easily extend this argument to fun things like say the use of legs. There was that kid in the wheelchair in series 1, so should we start breaking everyone's kneecaps?
Bending is something these people are born with and put an extremely large portion of their life aside to master. taking it away does put them at a disadvantage because they've literally been relying on and training an ability that's just suddenly gone.
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
The same way little kids that are sexually and physically abused grow up to be abusive adults. Shit scars, yo.
Plus they obviously weren't exactly overjoyed at doing it, just desperate. Would you expect them to starve for their principles?
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
Tamin on
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
Mako said they did numbers jobs. The only reference I have for what that is is Delvin Mallory in Skyrim.
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
And you don't see Mako plotting to destroy all bending, now do you? And don't give me the "Well Amon isn't a bender" line because at the *very* least he's a spirit bender but he's likely also an air bender as well.
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
And you don't see Mako plotting to destroy all bending, now do you? And don't give me the "Well Amon isn't a bender" line because at the *very* least he's a spirit bender but he's likely also an air bender as well.
There's no basis for either of those claims, to be perfectly honest.
The only existing Airbenders are Aang's descendants, and many excellent posts on the subject of whether or not Amon is actually Energybending have already been made. Suffice it to say that there is serious doubt as to whether what he's doing is actually Energybending.
While Mako could be a non-bender and still not end up wanting to destroy all benders, that has no bearing on whether or not Amon should want to destroy all benders, because different people have different reactions to the same situation.
If everyone reacted the same way in a given situation, then the DCU would have about 50,000 Batmen running around as a result of gun violence.
I think it's hard to argue white vs. black class oppression when we have lots and lots of examples of poor white living in rural settings (swamp whites), doing menial tasks (literally dozens, from factory work to pushing public trains blacks ride), being exploited by their black employers, and so on. The elite might be mostly white, but whites are not the elite.
Basically, you're buying into Amon's BS argument! Demagoguery works, even in a cartoon.
Was the Earth King in TLA even a bender? I don't recall ever seeing him bend anything.
The Earth King was not a bender as far as I'm aware, and neither were the higher-ups of the Water Tribes at the time of TLA.
Thus, it's interesting that the leadership of Republic City seems to have a significant bender contingent.
What's really interesting is that the governing body of Republic City appears to be comprised entirely of foreign delegates appointed by the various Nations. Republic City doesn't seem to have elective government, which also goes a long way toward explaining non-bender unrest.
Intelligent people are better at business and engineering. Should we start a "stupidest" movement to knock some lack-of-sense into those bastards because they are naturally gifted beyond what us normals can do?
See: American politics, 2012/Texas board of education
Mako and Bolin make so little sense. "When we were kids, our family was killed by a fire bender extortionist. So sometimes for money, we work for a fire bender extortionist."
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
And you don't see Mako plotting to destroy all bending, now do you? And don't give me the "Well Amon isn't a bender" line because at the *very* least he's a spirit bender but he's likely also an air bender as well.
There's no basis for either of those claims, to be perfectly honest.
The only existing Airbenders are Aang's descendants, and many excellent posts on the subject of whether or not Amon is actually Energybending have already been made.
While Mako could be a non-bender and still not end up wanting to destroy all benders, that has no bearing on whether or not Amon should want to destroy all benders, because different people have different reactions to the same situation.
If everyone reacted the same way in a given situation, then the DCU would have about 50,000 Batmen running around as a result of gun violence.
Do we know that the only airbenders are Aang's descendants? That seems like a pretty hefty assumption. There are plenty of monks on the island temple and nothing to indicate one way or the other yet whether or not they are functioning airbenders. Admittedly we haven't seen any sign of them in the city but that may simple be due to their natural tendency to remove themselves from society.
I read the posts debating whether Amon did or did not spiritbend. For now my money and my argument is that he did, if for no other reason than Aang's son saying as much. Plus the only argument out there seems to be that we were missing the fancy flash that we saw when Aang spiritbent and that could easily be explained due to the lack of first person perspective on the spiritbender.
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Shit, they should show it in Civics classes.
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Nope, just a bear.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
Like... like a polar bear-dog?
Lion-bear?
I kinda think it's because people on this here part of the internet tend to sympathize with class warfare appeals to emotion and thoughtless hatred of the elite, not because the show has done a good job of setting up an ambiguous badguy.
The show's presentation is pretty straightforward: problems exist, and the leaders aren't addressing them well. Amon is taking advantage of unrest for his own secret nefarious plans involving the avatar, whom he was expecting to arrive in order to move forward. He's indiscriminate in condemnation and in summary judgment, his henchmen are often just as faceless as him, and he's clearly Up To No Good.
It's being invested with more meaning by people bringing their own baggage to the table.
This place is weird.
It's because the two sentences aren't in conflict with one another, at all.
Stolen bending from criminals. EVILLLLL!
He should do better things for society like Korra did when she tore apart a city block.
So you support randomly assigning guns to people at birth?
Amon? If you think he really gives a damn about oppression at the hands of the bending elite, you are going to be surprised.
No. They need to dedicate their life to a discipline if they want to get a sniper scope or some other such thing. They get bullets once they've practice pulling the trigger for a couple weeks.
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Hypothetical: Say you have a race of people, with purple skin. They are all twice as smart as the rest of the population. They are 3 times as strong. As such they tend to get good jobs, get put in positions of authority, etc. Some of them are bad, some of them are good, either way, they are capable of making very significant impacts to everyone around them.
What should be done about them?
She tore it apart pretty well. I mean, were it not for Tenzin stepping in to pay for everything, several people's lives were probably about to get completely ruined.
Now yes, she's almost certainly better-intentioned than Amon. But for the common person, it's not hard to look at that and be a bit concerned with Benders just walking the streets.
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Referring to the fact that you constantly make similar complaints of "this here part of the internet".
So far, we have seen a lot of benders terrorizing non-benders. While I'm not convinced Amon will be nearly as equalizing as he portrays himself, I think it's interesting to see.
We'd probably agree that nothing should be done with them. But many, many people would not like that, and if there was a way to take away their extra strength and intelligence, lots of people would rally around that.
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Wow, did I really just read this? I mean... did you mean to type what you did or was that entire middle sentence some bizarre smartphone keyboard mishap?
Amon's actions was the equivalent of crippling someone as punishment dealt entirely outside the law. Being born with a talent is not a crime and committing a crime does not justify rounding up your friends and removing the source of that person's talent, whether that be bending or mathematics.
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So non benders aren't at a disadvantage to benders but to take away someone's bending is equal to crippling them.
And Korra's actions are no less vigilante as Bei Fang was happy to point out. And hers were far more dangerous.
Best to quietly ignore the "walking weapons of mass destruction"... unless the show decides to acknowledge it first.
Because that would actually be crippling them. As many people have been so eager to point out, while they can no longer bend people who can't bend are clearly in no way at a disadvantage to those who can.
Woah there buddy, I never said non-benders weren't at a disadvantage. Frankly, if I were structuring society for the Avatar universe I would be way more progressive about it. Being a non-bender would be something of a protected class of citizen, they would have secondary schools and things setup directly to teach them how to provide for themselves and their families without bending abilities.
Frankly I would probably make all benders register with the government and subject them to harsher crime laws equivalent to their increased capacity to destroy objects.
With all that said I think its silly to compare Korra's actions to those of Amon. Amon kidnapped and crippled people, Korra intervened in an assault on a less-abled person and damaged some property in the process. Sure she committed crimes but motivations matter.
Tell that to people like Toph who are so reliant on their ability to bend that they cannot function without it. Take away earthbending and then she's a blind girl who literally had her sight taken away, no different from gouging out Sokkas eyes.
And you can pretty easily extend this argument to fun things like say the use of legs. There was that kid in the wheelchair in series 1, so should we start breaking everyone's kneecaps?
Bending is something these people are born with and put an extremely large portion of their life aside to master. taking it away does put them at a disadvantage because they've literally been relying on and training an ability that's just suddenly gone.
The same way little kids that are sexually and physically abused grow up to be abusive adults. Shit scars, yo.
Plus they obviously weren't exactly overjoyed at doing it, just desperate. Would you expect them to starve for their principles?
This also confirms re: Republic City's ruling council that
Imagine how that must make normal citizens feel. You're governed by benders from the other nations; you don't even elect your own representatives.
What's more, the bending police launches raids on non-bending citizens seeking to learn techniques to protect themselves against benders.
This show is really morally gray, which is doubly impressive considering that it's ostensibly a kid's show. I love it.
I think you're getting Amon's story mixed up with Mako and Bolin.
Amon had the extortionist; Mako's mother and father were killed by a mugger.
Mako said they did numbers jobs. The only reference I have for what that is is Delvin Mallory in Skyrim.
And you don't see Mako plotting to destroy all bending, now do you? And don't give me the "Well Amon isn't a bender" line because at the *very* least he's a spirit bender but he's likely also an air bender as well.
There's no basis for either of those claims, to be perfectly honest.
The only existing Airbenders are Aang's descendants, and many excellent posts on the subject of whether or not Amon is actually Energybending have already been made. Suffice it to say that there is serious doubt as to whether what he's doing is actually Energybending.
While Mako could be a non-bender and still not end up wanting to destroy all benders, that has no bearing on whether or not Amon should want to destroy all benders, because different people have different reactions to the same situation.
If everyone reacted the same way in a given situation, then the DCU would have about 50,000 Batmen running around as a result of gun violence.
Thus, it's interesting that the leadership of Republic City seems to have a significant bender contingent.
What's really interesting is that the governing body of Republic City appears to be comprised entirely of foreign delegates appointed by the various Nations. Republic City doesn't seem to have elective government, which also goes a long way toward explaining non-bender unrest.
See: American politics, 2012/Texas board of education
Do we know that the only airbenders are Aang's descendants? That seems like a pretty hefty assumption. There are plenty of monks on the island temple and nothing to indicate one way or the other yet whether or not they are functioning airbenders. Admittedly we haven't seen any sign of them in the city but that may simple be due to their natural tendency to remove themselves from society.
I read the posts debating whether Amon did or did not spiritbend. For now my money and my argument is that he did, if for no other reason than Aang's son saying as much. Plus the only argument out there seems to be that we were missing the fancy flash that we saw when Aang spiritbent and that could easily be explained due to the lack of first person perspective on the spiritbender.