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[Washington] Politics

SliderSlider Registered User regular
edited July 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
This place:

washington_ref_2001.jpg

I live here:

water-dances-in-front.jpg

My first foray into the political arena was many years ago as a Legislative Page. Since then, I have been employed as a Committee Clerk (twice) and a Committee Legislative Assistant.

One summer, I was rollerblading around the capitol campus and almost fell in front of Gary Locke.

Anyway. I like politics. I want to run for office some day. In the meantime, I spend my hours reading about politicians doing things that I don't like and vehemently disagree with.

I get most of my news from a somewhat biased newspaper called The Olympian. I recently read a disturbing article:

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/07/25/1737211/dems-education-leaders-to-sue.html

Feel free to form your own opinions on the issue. I, however, am extremely perturbed that my state's elected officials continually seek to overturn every voter-approved initiative that they disagree with.

This is the place to talk about Washington politics.

Slider on
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Posts

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Tim Eyeman iniatives are bullshit anti tax garbage that limit the state government retardedly and expect the state to be able to maintain its current services with less revenue. The most recent one was one of the dumbest things I've seen, which wasn't very surprising it got passed, nor is it very surprising it'll be challenged in court like all of Eyemans fucking garbage iniatitives.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    The initiative system in this state is eight kinds of retarded. That particular initiative is about a million kinds of retarded, and is nigh-identical to the one that is about 30% responsible for the California economy going into complete meltdown.

    People should not be allowed to vote on individual laws, because they do stupid shit like that. "Hey, let's make it take a huge supermajority to raise taxes, but only a simple majority to raise spending! I can't see how that would possibly go wrong!"

    Also, why the hell should a simple majority be able to set a law that makes it take a 2/3rds majority to do something? So goddamn stupid.

    Thanatos on
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    Wasn't Eyman the guy who reduced the cost of license tabs?

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Slider wrote:
    Wasn't Eyman the guy who reduced the cost of license tabs?
    That's the guy. Also the guy who shut down a bunch of DoLs in Seattle, because he didn't bother to replace the funding from the license tabs.

    Which is why if you need to visit the DoL in this state, you have to take a fucking day off work, instead of just going on your lunch break like you can in California.

  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    Ballot initiatives are pretty stupid if turned into binding law (as opposed to just a poll to indicate support), because people do not think things through. Heck, we had one a few years back in MA trying to allow grocery stores to sell wine, and the entire opposition to it was "THERE WILL BE MORE DRUNK DRIVERS BECAUSE OF THIS *brought to you by your local liquor store"

    It's even worse when it's a tax related initiative, because people will pretty much always vote for lower taxes and such, without caring about the medium to long term effects. One of my bosses was puzzled when I said I'd be voting against the "abolish the state income tax" ballot measure, because in his opinion, and I quote: "You'll have more tax home pay!" "Well yes, but where will the state get the money it needs to run instead?" "They'll figure something out, it's not my problem?"

    Direct Democracy is.. a really bad idea. We don't teach people to properly carry out their ideas to their conclusions, and the voting booth does not have a requirement of reasoned debate beforehand. A state senator may vote like an idiot, but at least he was supposed to be in the two weeks of discussion about what that vote would cause.

  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    I think the point is: voters don't like their taxes raised and don't trust government to use their money wisely.

    Here is more on the issue in the OP: http://www.theolympian.com/2011/07/26/1737755/suit-attempts-again-to-kill-tax.html

    Raptor007
  • SquigieSquigie Registered User regular
    Slider wrote:
    I think the point is: voters don't like their taxes raised and don't trust government to use their money wisely.

    Here is more on the issue in the OP: http://www.theolympian.com/2011/07/26/1737755/suit-attempts-again-to-kill-tax.html
    Jinkins was the prime sponsor of HB 2078, which proposed to curtail a tax break for banks and put the $83 million in new revenue into improving public education in grades K-3.

    HB 2078 received a 52-vote majority but failed to pass in the 98-member House, because I-1053 required a 66-vote supermajority for any changes to the tax code. Republicans were united in voting against it, and the Senate never took up the issue.

    State lawmakers were able to bridge a more than $5 billion budget gap this year by cutting real and projected spending by nearly $4.8 billion, and they also raised a number of government fees on simple majority votes. Cuts included reductions in public-school class-size funding and teacher pay below what two popularly supported citizen initiatives in 2000 would have required.

    Not only did lawmakers suspend I-728’s class size improvements and I-732’s cost-of-living increases, they cut state allocations for teacher pay by an additional 1.9 percent.

    Those cuts come while the state Supreme Court is weighing a lawsuit that contends the state is not living up to its “paramount duty” in the state constitution to fund basic education.

    Jinkins hopes a Superior Court judge can hear arguments in the fall, and Reykdal said he hopes the Supreme Court can start on the case next year.

    “The idea of providing a $100 million tax break for huge, out-of-state banks at the same time as we are making deep cuts in our schools just seems ridiculous,” Jinkins said in an announcement. “Even the lobbyists for these banks admitted in a committee hearing that Washington home-buyers were receiving no benefit from this tax break, but the supermajority requirement prevented us from closing the loophole and redirecting that money to education.”

    Tax increases are hard enough to pass already. This is what happens when you allow those sentiments to make it even harder. It becomes absurdly difficult for the legislature to end the tax breaks the people don't want to pay for the things they do want.

    Warning: the preceding post may be more sarcastic than it appears. Proceed at own risk. Individual results may vary. Offers not valid in Canada or where prohibited by fraud statutes.
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Never vote for anything Eyman ever backs. It's like voting for getting fisted anally, without consent.

    Alazull
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    huff huff I heard anal fisting and got here as soon as I could.


    Oh its not happening to Eyman?

    Well shit.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    God I wish it were. That and getting shot out of a cannon.

    Into space.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Too bad the Tim Eyeman is a horses ass measure failed based on some "Can't legislate name calling".

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote:
    Too bad the Tim Eyeman is a horses ass measure failed based on some "Can't legislate name calling".

    I wonder if we can get a "Anal Fisting for Tim Eyeman" Initiative passed.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'd rather a bill that banned him from making iniatives ever get passed. I think I remember reading he's not even from washington, just uses our states iniative program to push his retarded no tax ideals.

    I mean his recent plan meant they couldn't raise the ferry rates, how stupid is that?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I'd rather a bill that forced him to be fired out of a cannon.

    Into space.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote:
    I'd rather a bill that banned him from making iniatives ever get passed. I think I remember reading he's not even from washington, just uses our states iniative program to push his retarded no tax ideals.

    I mean his recent plan meant they couldn't raise the ferry rates, how stupid is that?
    People can be obnoxious enough to require court approval for any suits they bring. Somebody, get on it!

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    No, Eyeman's from Washington. He's a graduate of my old high school on the Eastside.

    He is nothing but a self-serving horse's ass.

    DoctorArch on
    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ballot Initiatives are the stupidest thing you could possibly do in government and you people down south are fucking insane for having them so many places.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    I can see how they can be used for good, and why they were originally implemented. But as with anything good greedy/stupid people corrupt the process.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote:
    No, Eyeman's from Washington. He's a graduate of my old high school on the Eastside.

    He is nothing but a self-serving horse's ass.

    Which one is this?

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    shryke wrote:
    Ballot Initiatives are the stupidest thing you could possibly do in government and you people down south are fucking insane for having them so many places.

    You're in canada then shryke? Because washington is usually considered "north" by most people with a compass.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote:
    I can see how they can be used for good, and why they were originally implemented. But as with anything good greedy/stupid people corrupt the process.

    They were never a good idea. They are one of those things that only sounds good till you really think about it.

    You don't represent yourself in court, you hire a lawyer. Same principal.
    Preacher wrote:
    shryke wrote:
    Ballot Initiatives are the stupidest thing you could possibly do in government and you people down south are fucking insane for having them so many places.

    You're in canada then shryke? Because washington is usually considered "north" by most people with a compass.

    Aye. Let me tell you, when you talk about it to other Canadians, the only reaction I've ever seen is "They do what??? Crazy Americans man..."

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote:
    No, Eyeman's from Washington. He's a graduate of my old high school on the Eastside.

    He is nothing but a self-serving horse's ass.

    Which one is this?

    West Valley High School, Yakima Washington.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote:
    DoctorArch wrote:
    No, Eyeman's from Washington. He's a graduate of my old high school on the Eastside.

    He is nothing but a self-serving horse's ass.

    Which one is this?

    West Valley High School, Yakima Washington.

    Oh hey. They were in our league when I was in highschool.

    That might have been East Valley actually.

  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    Why am I not shocked that Eyman's from the Yakima Valley? It's the forgotten birthplace of everything evil and shortsighted.

    Also, initiative probably sounded great back in the days where they actually thought there would be no career politicians and you'd take your turn serving and leave your farm fallow for a few years. They also sounded great when everyone rode unicorns in happy rainbow land. Beyond that it's fucking stupid because voters are fucking stupid. There's a reason we don't have a direct democracy.

  • SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    They actually seem to work just fine on a local level. Of course, so does simply electing a city council, so I'm not really sure you can count that on the positive side.

  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Ballot initiatives separate actions from consequences to a dangerous degree. "Make all parking free!" would be a popular ballot initiative with plenty of bad consequences.

    Eyman has been picking a fight over red light cameras recently, a perfect example of something that is unpopular and simultaneously effective and useful for the public. His ability to constantly be on the wrong side of every single issue is kind of astonishing.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    I don't like red light cameras.

    There's one in Ballard. It freaks me out.

    Raptor007
  • Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    I think the problem is not so much ballot initiatives and direct democracy, as it is, using them in a mostly representational system with very low voter turnout. Most voters are used to just letting their representatives handle everything, so they don't think much about politics, and so a small group of fanatics can ram through crazy initiatives like "let's never raise taxes ever again" or "let's ban gay marriage", even though the majority of the population would actually oppose them if they understood what was going on.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Pi-r8 wrote:
    I think the problem is not so much ballot initiatives and direct democracy, as it is, using them in a mostly representational system with very low voter turnout. Most voters are used to just letting their representatives handle everything, so they don't think much about politics, and so a small group of fanatics can ram through crazy initiatives like "let's never raise taxes ever again" or "let's ban gay marriage", even though the majority of the population would actually oppose them if they understood what was going on.
    I don't think it matters how good your turnout is; if you have people voting on voter- and lobbyist-written laws, you're going to get some really fantastically stupid fucking ideas that sound good to every idiot out there that doesn't know the first thing about legislative policy enshrined into law (or, in California's case, into the Constitution).

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Slider wrote:
    I don't like red light cameras.

    There's one in Ballard. It freaks me out.
    Can you at least acknowledge that they're a good idea and serve a purpose that is beneficial to the community at large?

  • SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote:
    Slider wrote:
    I don't like red light cameras.

    There's one in Ballard. It freaks me out.
    Can you at least acknowledge that they're a good idea and serve a purpose that is beneficial to the community at large?
    Last I checked (its been a bit, so I may be out of date), there was still open debate on them causing more accidents than they stopped. Also debate with respect to what happens to yellow light timing and what sort of things should be penalized. They serve a nice theory, but assuming the research still pans out the way it used to, its one of the nice on paper/poor in practice theories. Like I said earlier, I last checked the research a while ago, so if there's a study more recent than about a year or two ago, feel free to prove me all sorts of wrong.

  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    The best site for coverage of Washington and Seattle politics is Publicola and I encourage people to read it. The comments are also much better than the crap that is usually commented - some of the commenters are insiders who know as much or more than the reporters. The Slog (Stranger blog) and particularly Goldy there do excellent reporting as well. Now that session is over there isn't a lot going on in state politics except prepping for the Governor's race, I-1125, and the lawsuit against I-1053.

  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Thanatos wrote:
    The initiative system in this state is eight kinds of retarded. That particular initiative is about a million kinds of retarded, and is nigh-identical to the one that is about 30% responsible for the California economy going into complete meltdown.

    My roommate moved from California to Seattle right before the election results came in and he was aghast that we actually passed that initiative.
    Hacksaw wrote:
    Slider wrote:
    I don't like red light cameras.

    There's one in Ballard. It freaks me out.
    Can you at least acknowledge that they're a good idea and serve a purpose that is beneficial to the community at large?

    I hate red light cameras because they're operated by a private company. I've never understood the supposed benefit of privatizing public works.

    Cervetus on
    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    ...tunnel?

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    ...tunnel?

    The viaduct situation.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    ...tunnel?

    The viaduct situation.

    ummmm

  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    KcwyH.png

    VHD stands for "vehicle hours of delay". These numbers are from the state's final environmental impact statement. Traffic will be just as bad with the tunnel as it would be with the surface/transit plan, which will be much cheaper and will serve more people. At least the elevated replacement would have downtown exits - the tunnel won't even have that.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    big l wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    KcwyH.png

    VHD stands for "vehicle hours of delay". These numbers are from the state's final environmental impact statement. Traffic will be just as bad with the tunnel as it would be with the surface/transit plan, which will be much cheaper and will serve more people. At least the elevated replacement would have downtown exits - the tunnel won't even have that.
    The last thing Seattle needs is more downtown congestion due to a massive over-land transit system.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Taramoor wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    So, what's the prevailing opinion here on the tunnel?

    Are you with The Stranger, or the Seattle Times?

    ...tunnel?

    The viaduct situation.

    ummmm
    The Alaska Way viaduct.

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