Countdown: Out with a whimper

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Posts

  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    You know munch, if you breathed every once in a while, maybe you wouldn't be so angry. You look positively blue in the face there.

    Bloods End on
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Munch is the Spirit of Blue Beetle Past.

    Delduwath on
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2008
    DC Universe 0 spoilers:

    Blankspace on
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  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Oh well that was unexpected

    Wildcat on
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I kind of hoped/figured Morrison would do that. Very psyched about it.

    Fellhand on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I've never cared about him myself, nor thought there was any particular need to revisit him.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The Flash franchise is in the toilet, and nobody seems to know what to do with it. I imagine they're hoping to do for him what they did for Hal Jordan. There was that rumor a while back about Van Sciver and Johns working on a Flash book together.

    Munch on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    hey fuck you blank

    Sars_Boy on
  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Blankspace wrote: »
    DC Universe 0 spoilers:

    Called it. ~Pats self on back~

    übergeek on
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  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So after reading Final Crisis, does anyone think that Barry might not be back in the sense that we think he is?

    Like, maybe he is sort of one with the DCU or something.

    Sars_Boy on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    What I'm hoping is that
    this is the "3rd time", referring back to Johns' Flash run, where Barry said he would be there for Wally on the 3 worst days of his life. He's come back for Wally twice already and I'm hoping this will be the 3rd, and that he will die again permenantly at the end of FC

    Balefuego on
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  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    oh hey that actually works really well

    nice catch

    Sars_Boy on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    What I'm hoping is that
    this is the "3rd time", referring back to Johns' Flash run, where Barry said he would be there for Wally on the 3 worst days of his life. He's come back for Wally twice already and I'm hoping this will be the 3rd, and that he will die again permenantly at the end of FC

    That's probably exactly what it is.

    Furu on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    I might end up getting Final Crisis just to see where they go with the reveal

    Me Too! on
  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Please god don't bring back Barry permanently

    let's have one death stick

    let's not give alex ross everything he wants please

    Rans on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    One of these days I hope Ross has no option but to draw Kyle and nothing but Kyle.

    Personally, speaking as someone whose first Flash was Bart (!), what little I've read of Barry makes me think I'd much just prefer to stick with Wally.

    Wildcat on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So is there anyone who thinks the blue guardians are going to offer the first blue ring to anyone other than Kyle?

    Balefuego on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I heard someone say Ice should get one. I kind of like that idea. She's pretty much the embodiment of sweetness and light, and it'd let her pal around with Guy Gardner having space adventures.

    Munch on
  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wildcat wrote: »
    One of these days I hope Ross has no option but to draw Kyle and nothing but Kyle.

    Personally, speaking as someone whose first Flash was Bart (!), what little I've read of Barry makes me think I'd much just prefer to stick with Wally.

    What I liked about Barry was the fact that he was a scientist, so he would think of interesting ways to use his speed in a (pseduo-) scientific way. One of the big things I liked about Wally was him referring back to those lessons Barry taught him. Flash Facts!

    The latest Justice League, which is really just a Flash/Wonder Woman team up, also has him referring back to Barry and science.

    JoeUser on
    PSN: JoeUser80 Steam
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Barry is fine, and it will be cool to see him again I'm sure.

    I just dont wan't him back for an extended period of time. He should die forever at the end of Final Crisis, they've already brought him back enough times, let his story end.

    Balefuego on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Referring back a few posts to whoever said that the Flash franchise has been in the toilet lately...

    My problem with the Flash in general, in any iteration, is that he's such a one-dimensional character. Speed is not that interesting of a superpower, really. At least not to me. (Opinion). The thing about it is that how many times is he gonna have to be at 12 places at the same time. How many times is he gonna vibrate his matter through some sort of enclosed space before there just isn't anything left to do with him.

    The last run with Bart was TERRIBLE. It was nothing but Teen Drama. It was worse than Teen Drama because his superpower is so bland. Half the DCU can achieve extremely fast speeds. Sure the flash is the fastest of them all, but Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Firestorm, Black Lightning, Vixen, Red Tornado, and a handful of others can all basically do the same thing. There just isn't really a need for a character whose only power is speed. Becasue all those other people bring something else to the table that actually makes them useful.

    Like I said, just my opinion, but I think very little of the flash, and I think that's why his book has sucked so bad. Because there's just not a lot you can do with him that hasn't already been done. He's too flat.

    Lucascraft on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    there's nothing inherently wrong with the power set or the character. It's just been written and planned so badly ever since Johns left the book.

    Read some Geoff Johns stories to see how Flash comics should be.

    Balefuego on
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  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    That's actually one of the reasons why I frown when writers use the 'Flash is the fastest man, but Marvel has the speed of the gods' shtick or something similar. Either he's the fastest mortal, or he's not - don't screw around with other character's speeds to close the gap, or you lose the only unique thing about him.

    Wildcat on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I think the Flash is a great character, but somebody needs to take the franchise back to basics. Between all of the Flash Rogues being written out of the book in Salvation Run, Bart getting killed, Wally getting two unofficial kid sidekicks, and a string of bad writers, the book's just been a mess. It was too much change too fast I think. The thing is, the Flash isn't so horribly broken it can't be fixed.

    Bringing the Rogues back would be the best first step to getting the book readable again. A hero's only as interesting as his villains, and Spin and The Griffin don't quite cut it. And stop having Flash fight a teenaged Inertia. It's fucking creepy. Next, resolve the rapid aging subplot for Wally's kids. I view Flash as a book that should be sort of fun and charming, and having the constant threat of his children's horrible deaths hanging over the hero's really a downer. I say age them both to late adolescence, so they don't look so weird helping their dad fight crime, and leave them there. Then bring back Bart to act as sort of a goofy older brother/cool uncle to the kids.

    Munch on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wildcat wrote: »
    That's actually one of the reasons why I frown when writers use the 'Flash is the fastest man, but Marvel has the speed of the gods' shtick or something similar. Either he's the fastest mortal, or he's not - don't screw around with other character's speeds to close the gap, or you lose the only unique thing about him.

    Well, their speed is kind of different, too. Let's throw in Reverse-Flash, too:

    Flashes: speed comes from the Speed Force, so it's not bound by things like relativity
    Marvel: speed is magical
    Reverse Flash: speed is an illusion caused by time travel/manipulation.

    This lets you have the story effects of these different speeds mixing. It's not perfect, but it has some interesting stuff in it.

    mattharvest on
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Speed is not that interesting of a superpower, really. At least not to me. (Opinion). The thing about it is that how many times is he gonna have to be at 12 places at the same time. How many times is he gonna vibrate his matter through some sort of enclosed space before there just isn't anything left to do with him.

    Yeah, but, how many times is Spider-Man gonna punch a dude? How many times is Green Lantern gonna make green bubbles? How many times is Batman gonna plan? Flash has a powerset that's more focused than some other characters. That doesn't mean that the one power can't be used in varied ways (like vibrating through walls/into other universes - that's not the standard "run fast" way of using his speed, for example). Of course, as said before, showing how interesting the power can be falls onto the shoulders of the writer.
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    There just isn't really a need for a character whose only power is speed. Becasue all those other people bring something else to the table that actually makes them useful.

    Man, I think you're seriously underestimating how powerful and useful super-speed can be. If a dude is about to press a button that launches a missile, super-speed means that dude's arm will be in a sling before he can even twitch in the direction of said button. Super-speed means you can search an entire crime scene and find clues without the perpetrator getting significantly farther away from the crime scene (and capture). I'll admit that I don't really read a lot of Flash, but, I mean, look at the two scanned pages here: 4thletter. Is that not freaking awesome?

    Delduwath on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Flash is pretty easily one of the most powerful heroes in the DCU

    Balefuego on
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  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Read some Geoff Johns stories to see how Flash comics should be.

    Don't you mean Mark Waid?

    Fellhand on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I haven't read the original Waid run, although I've heard good things about it.

    The Geoff Johns run I have read all of though, and it's phenomonal. It's the reason I love the character/

    Balefuego on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'll admit that I never read the Geoff Johns Flash stuff. In fact, I haven't really read any good Flash books.


    Now that I think about it, though, I *loved* the Flash in New Frontier. His storyline was one of the more interesting parts of that book to me. I'd say Darwyn Cooke did a good job at writing him.

    Lucascraft on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    When you can, check out Waid's run from #68 or so (around the time of the "Return of Barry Allen") to #115 or so (around the Speed Kills arc). Seminal FLASH run.

    jkylefulton on
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  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wildcat wrote: »
    That's actually one of the reasons why I frown when writers use the 'Flash is the fastest man, but Marvel has the speed of the gods' shtick or something similar. Either he's the fastest mortal, or he's not - don't screw around with other character's speeds to close the gap, or you lose the only unique thing about him.

    Well, their speed is kind of different, too. Let's throw in Reverse-Flash, too:

    Flashes: speed comes from the Speed Force, so it's not bound by things like relativity
    Marvel: speed is magical
    Reverse Flash: speed is an illusion caused by time travel/manipulation.

    This lets you have the story effects of these different speeds mixing. It's not perfect, but it has some interesting stuff in it.

    I appreciate that, and it can be pretty fun, but at the same time I can accept someone like Zoom due to that distinction, whereas when you start pumping Marvel or others up to that level I find it irksome. I guess it's more personal preference than anything.

    Wildcat on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wildcat wrote: »
    Wildcat wrote: »
    That's actually one of the reasons why I frown when writers use the 'Flash is the fastest man, but Marvel has the speed of the gods' shtick or something similar. Either he's the fastest mortal, or he's not - don't screw around with other character's speeds to close the gap, or you lose the only unique thing about him.

    Well, their speed is kind of different, too. Let's throw in Reverse-Flash, too:

    Flashes: speed comes from the Speed Force, so it's not bound by things like relativity
    Marvel: speed is magical
    Reverse Flash: speed is an illusion caused by time travel/manipulation.

    This lets you have the story effects of these different speeds mixing. It's not perfect, but it has some interesting stuff in it.

    I appreciate that, and it can be pretty fun, but at the same time I can accept someone like Zoom due to that distinction, whereas when you start pumping Marvel or others up to that level I find it irksome. I guess it's more personal preference than anything.

    Lest we forget: originally, Superman couldn't fly. He just jumped really high.

    It's kind of inevitable that these things ratchet up, and (in DC) they then get slammed back by a Crisis.

    mattharvest on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Sure, but I kinda hate when it gets to the level of pissing on another character's powerset to do it.

    Wildcat on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    since when is Captain Marvel anywhere near Flash's speed?

    Recently (in the latest JLA and some other comic i forget which) they've been saying Wonder Woman is as fast, which is kind of weird

    Garlic Bread on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    She gets around.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Keith wrote: »
    since when is Captain Marvel anywhere near Flash's speed?

    Recently (in the latest JLA and some other comic i forget which) they've been saying Wonder Woman is as fast, which is kind of weird

    Yeah, that is odd. I remember in JSA that Black Adam lent Jay Garrick Flash his speed, but he couldn't keep up.

    And I want to say that in the JLA: Tower of Babel storyline, they explicitly have Flash outrun Wonder Woman. I think the Speed Force makes him potentially faster than anyone else, but he probably doesn't have much occasion to go super-liminal.

    JoeUser on
    PSN: JoeUser80 Steam
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Keith wrote: »
    since when is Captain Marvel anywhere near Flash's speed?

    Recently (in the latest JLA and some other comic i forget which) they've been saying Wonder Woman is as fast, which is kind of weird

    To be fair, it's usually mentioned in out of continuity comics I think, though I'm pretty sure I've come across that at least twice recently.

    Wildcat on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Keith wrote: »
    since when is Captain Marvel anywhere near Flash's speed?

    Recently (in the latest JLA and some other comic i forget which) they've been saying Wonder Woman is as fast, which is kind of weird

    Yeah, that is odd. I remember in JSA that Black Adam lent Jay Garrick Flash his speed, but he couldn't keep up.

    And I want to say that in the JLA: Tower of Babel storyline, they explicitly have Flash outrun Wonder Woman. I think the Speed Force makes him potentially faster than anyone else, but he probably doesn't have much occasion to go super-liminal.

    The latest JLA was a bit weird. Flash says how he slows down so as to not destroy roads, but if he went faster Wonder Woman could easily match him.

    but then there's a panel where he says like "i'll go check" and then "okay i'm back" in the same panel and wonder woman looks shocked at his speed

    Garlic Bread on
  • übergeekübergeek Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Keith wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Keith wrote: »
    since when is Captain Marvel anywhere near Flash's speed?

    Recently (in the latest JLA and some other comic i forget which) they've been saying Wonder Woman is as fast, which is kind of weird

    Yeah, that is odd. I remember in JSA that Black Adam lent Jay Garrick Flash his speed, but he couldn't keep up.

    And I want to say that in the JLA: Tower of Babel storyline, they explicitly have Flash outrun Wonder Woman. I think the Speed Force makes him potentially faster than anyone else, but he probably doesn't have much occasion to go super-liminal.

    The latest JLA was a bit weird. Flash says how he slows down so as to not destroy roads, but if he went faster Wonder Woman could easily match him.

    but then there's a panel where he says like "i'll go check" and then "okay i'm back" in the same panel and wonder woman looks shocked at his speed

    I think he meant he could crank it up, and she could keep up to a point, such as if he went "destroy the new asphalt on the interstate" speed she could do that. Now if he went top speed there's no way in hell she's keeping up. Maybe her shock was over how well he's learned control, such as not causing a huge wash of air to suck everything out of the building as he left, where it looks like he didn't even cause a breeze leaving or returning.

    übergeek on
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