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Trenches comic: Thursday, September 1, 2011

Robert KhooRobert Khoo Registered User, ClubPA staff
edited September 2011 in The Penny Arcade Hub
Some guy.
Robert Khoo on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    I think this is my favorite story. Bosses that are dumb are way funnier than bosses that are malicious.

    liEt3nH.png
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    I think this is my favorite story. Bosses that are dumb are way funnier than bosses that are malicious.

    To be fair, it could easily be both...

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    FalxFalx Registered User regular
    Back in the late 90s, I’d just started in the game industry and had, along with my fellow coworkers, been on a dusk-til-dawn schedule testing a racing simulator. The QA manager, short on budget but big on ideas, came up with a great plan to help motivate us.

    In the conference room there was a whiteboard with each of our names on it, and next to each name was a daily-updated count of the number of hours of unpaid overtime each of us had accumulated on the project.

    When each of us got to 100 hours of unpaid work, he would come in and give a little round of applause.

    Yay.

    for ease of access

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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    I just have so much trouble fathoming the environment I would have to be in to put up with unpaid overtime like that. I mean, I know you can be easily replaced, but wow. I was upset with my work when I got stuck overnight in the emergency operations center for hurricane Irene and they reset my overtime pay from Saturday to Sunday instead of as a single shift because it's a new week. Lost 2.5 hrs of pay due to that.

    To see your boss put up a "reward" system for unpaid overtime? Unless you have wife and kids and seriously would be in danger of losing your house, I'd walk out. And/or report them to some sort of labor board for unfair labor practices. Because it's just plain ridiculous.

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
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    MaigaardMaigaard Registered User regular
    Falx wrote:
    Back in the late 90s, I’d just started in the game industry and had, along with my fellow coworkers, been on a dusk-til-dawn schedule testing a racing simulator. The QA manager, short on budget but big on ideas, came up with a great plan to help motivate us.

    In the conference room there was a whiteboard with each of our names on it, and next to each name was a daily-updated count of the number of hours of unpaid overtime each of us had accumulated on the project.

    When each of us got to 100 hours of unpaid work, he would come in and give a little round of applause.

    Yay.

    for ease of access

    Maybe it's just because I'm not American, but I'm not sure I get why anyone would work even an hour unpaid. Fear of getting fired? And if you get fired for not doing more than you're contractually obligated to, then... I don't know... Sue 'em, I guess?

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Is every Trenches thread going to be people talking about how much better Europe is to work in than America?

    Centipede Damascus on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Maigaard wrote:
    Maybe it's just because I'm not American, but I'm not sure I get why anyone would work even an hour unpaid. Fear of getting fired? And if you get fired for not doing more than you're contractually obligated to, then... I don't know... Sue 'em, I guess?
    Sometimes money is not the point.

    Some people find satisfaction in a job well done, and sometimes the cost of that is hard work and long hours.

    Others may find that work is the only thing that gives them purpose, and would rather spend their nights feeling useful than alone with their misery.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    the blank piece of paper could use a little text flavor.

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Isaac Cox is a funny name.

    To be fair though, anyone with the last name Cox is going to have a rough time in school.

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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    I think I was in college before anyone came up with a way to really make fun of my last name.

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
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    MagnumCTMagnumCT Registered User regular
    Another story of a tester victimizing himself. I'm guessing from the first words "getting into the game industry" this was a casting couch job: do what you're told and you'll go far.

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    Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    I hope at some point one of these horror stories ends with "We finally got fed up with being treated like cattle so we called OSHA and sued the company for back overtime pay" but I know that is never going to happen.

    BattleTag: MetalJared#1756
    PSN: SoulCrusherJared
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    I hope at some point one of these horror stories ends with "We finally got fed up with being treated like cattle so we called OSHA and sued the company for back overtime pay" but I know that is never going to happen.

    All depends on the contract they signed, and the labor laws in the state in which the company is employing them. Unfortunately, most of these places know how to legally ensure they can't be sued over it. I'm no union guy, in fact, I hate my union and that I'm forced to be in one, but this is one case where I could see that unions would actually be helpful in forcing companies to pay properly.

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Is every Trenches thread going to be people talking about how much better Europe is to work in than America?

    I can see that getting very old very fast, but you do have to realise that for some of us it is pretty jarring to read about stuff like this.

    It is so far removed from our frame of reference when it comes to worker's rights that it's sometimes hard not to look for faults at the employee side.


    Re: trenches comic of today. Am i the only that's scratching his head at this joke? We have three accomplished web cartoonist bundeling their forces and this is the best they could come up with?

    I am in no way complaining about a story driven comic. Hell i don't even need or expect a punchline, especially with the disclaimers being given. I understand that. We're doing something different. That's cool.

    But, when you do decide a punchline is in order, one would think they'd be a bit more critical about the jokes that do make it into the strip.

    I mean, you have the luxury of not needing a punchline, no one is expecting a joke-a-day kind of strip, so there's a level of freedom you might not have in another comic. Given all that, Why does this joke feel so forced?

    bwanie on
    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    You guys postin in this here thread are really critical of my industry, but I will forgive you!


    Because I enjoy this comic and the story so much that it puts me in a ridiculously good mood! Love it. Love it so much.

    hee hee
    isaac cox

    also I love the sign on his wall

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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    kochi i'm happy that this comic made you happy.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Whoever wrote the story for today's... uh, story, has pretty much the perfect sense of subtle humor. :^:

    That said though, it's pitiful that we have yet another story of unpaid hours. Not in that I'm sick of hearing about it, I just hate that it's a thing that happened. And may still be happening.

    Also today's comic is the best so far. :^:

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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    ok now i just feel dumb.

    what am i missing besides a phonetic joke about sucking dick?

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2011
    Nothing

    Also, I am about ready to call bullshit on most of these stories. Who the hell puts up with 100+ hours unpaid overtime? Either its crazy people working for crazy assholes or just lies.

    JustinSane07 on
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    Chris FOMChris FOM Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote:
    Is every Trenches thread going to be people talking about how much better Europe is to work in than America?

    I can see that getting very old very fast, but you do have to realise that for some of us it is pretty jarring to read about stuff like this.

    It is so far removed from our frame of reference when it comes to worker's rights that it's sometimes hard not to look for faults at the employee side.


    Re: trenches comic of today. Am i the only that's scratching his head at this joke? We have three accomplished web cartoonist bundeling their forces and this is the best they could come up with?

    I am in no way complaining about a story driven comic. Hell i don't even need or expect a punchline, especially with the disclaimers being given. I understand that. We're doing something different. That's cool.

    But, when you do decide a punchline is in order, one would think they'd be a bit more critical about the jokes that do make it into the strip.

    I mean, you have the luxury of not needing a punchline, no one is expecting a joke-a-day kind of strip, so there's a level of freedom you might not have in another comic. Given all that, Why does this joke feel so forced?

    Look at Team Bondi, and that's not in the US. Unfortunately this sort of thing appears to be endemic in the games industry. You've got a lot of idealistic kids who always wanted to work on video games and now have their chance, so that's a group that will be very easy to take advantage of. And if they stand up for themselves? Just shitcan 'em, there's always another waiting in the wings.

    As for the comic, I'm just waiting for something to happen. We're almost a month into things and the main character doesn't even have a job yet. I know these things take time, but at some point I'm ready to get into the actual meat of where this is going.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Maigaard wrote:
    Falx wrote:
    Back in the late 90s, I’d just started in the game industry and had, along with my fellow coworkers, been on a dusk-til-dawn schedule testing a racing simulator. The QA manager, short on budget but big on ideas, came up with a great plan to help motivate us.

    In the conference room there was a whiteboard with each of our names on it, and next to each name was a daily-updated count of the number of hours of unpaid overtime each of us had accumulated on the project.

    When each of us got to 100 hours of unpaid work, he would come in and give a little round of applause.

    Yay.

    for ease of access

    Maybe it's just because I'm not American, but I'm not sure I get why anyone would work even an hour unpaid. Fear of getting fired? And if you get fired for not doing more than you're contractually obligated to, then... I don't know... Sue 'em, I guess?

    We at least got TOIL (Time Off In Lieu, which is possibly one of the most hilariously inappropriate acronyms) when our company went on a fairly extreme cost cutting drive during the worst of the financial crisis. Got all of December off, and still carried a week into the next year. This wasn't with saving it up either, we had the brilliant idea to spend the odd hours of TOIL we generated to get the afternoons off on paydays - so we could just go to the pub and not come back. Turned what I thought til now could have been one of the most depressing work environments into a really good Summer.

    Unpaid overtime doesn't have to be terrible, as long as you've got good bosses.

    Tastyfish on
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    TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    So, as a public service, I isolated the Trenches logo if anyone wants to use it as an icon.

    o7VZH.png

    Just look at how much more beautiful your bookmarks could be:

    rs1Ia.png

    As far as I know Chrome unfortunately doesn't have the ability to manually change a page's favicon (yet), but some of the other browsers do (or have extensions for it). We can also just hope that the lovely Penny Arcade employees who do this sort of thing will indeed do this sort of thing, and give us some official favicon love.

    Taximes on
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote:
    Maigaard wrote:
    Falx wrote:
    Back in the late 90s, I’d just started in the game industry and had, along with my fellow coworkers, been on a dusk-til-dawn schedule testing a racing simulator. The QA manager, short on budget but big on ideas, came up with a great plan to help motivate us.

    In the conference room there was a whiteboard with each of our names on it, and next to each name was a daily-updated count of the number of hours of unpaid overtime each of us had accumulated on the project.

    When each of us got to 100 hours of unpaid work, he would come in and give a little round of applause.

    Yay.

    for ease of access

    Maybe it's just because I'm not American, but I'm not sure I get why anyone would work even an hour unpaid. Fear of getting fired? And if you get fired for not doing more than you're contractually obligated to, then... I don't know... Sue 'em, I guess?

    We at least got TOIL (Time Off In Lieu, which is possibly one of the most hilariously inappropriate acronyms) when our company went on a fairly extreme cost cutting drive during the worst of the financial crisis. Got all of December off, and still carried a week into the next year. This wasn't with saving it up either, we had the brilliant idea to spend the odd hours of TOIL we generated to get the afternoons off on paydays - so we could just go to the pub and not come back. Turned what I thought til now could have been one of the most depressing work environments into a really good Summer.

    Unpaid overtime doesn't have to be terrible, as long as you've got good bosses.

    time for time is not anywhere close to unpaid overtime.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Chris FOM wrote:
    bwanie wrote:
    Is every Trenches thread going to be people talking about how much better Europe is to work in than America?

    I can see that getting very old very fast, but you do have to realise that for some of us it is pretty jarring to read about stuff like this.

    It is so far removed from our frame of reference when it comes to worker's rights that it's sometimes hard not to look for faults at the employee side.


    Re: trenches comic of today. Am i the only that's scratching his head at this joke? We have three accomplished web cartoonist bundeling their forces and this is the best they could come up with?

    I am in no way complaining about a story driven comic. Hell i don't even need or expect a punchline, especially with the disclaimers being given. I understand that. We're doing something different. That's cool.

    But, when you do decide a punchline is in order, one would think they'd be a bit more critical about the jokes that do make it into the strip.

    I mean, you have the luxury of not needing a punchline, no one is expecting a joke-a-day kind of strip, so there's a level of freedom you might not have in another comic. Given all that, Why does this joke feel so forced?

    Look at Team Bondi, and that's not in the US. Unfortunately this sort of thing appears to be endemic in the games industry. You've got a lot of idealistic kids who always wanted to work on video games and now have their chance, so that's a group that will be very easy to take advantage of. And if they stand up for themselves? Just shitcan 'em, there's always another waiting in the wings.

    As for the comic, I'm just waiting for something to happen. We're almost a month into things and the main character doesn't even have a job yet. I know these things take time, but at some point I'm ready to get into the actual meat of where this is going.

    Two strips a week doesn't lend itself to a lot of forward momentum. Particularly when the people working on it (Mike, Jerry, Scott) have a shitload of other irons in the fire. Though the 2010 trademark still makes me think they have a hundred or so strips already in the can and they're just doling them out to us like some cruel experiment.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    bwanie wrote:
    Tastyfish wrote:
    Maigaard wrote:
    Falx wrote:
    Back in the late 90s, I’d just started in the game industry and had, along with my fellow coworkers, been on a dusk-til-dawn schedule testing a racing simulator. The QA manager, short on budget but big on ideas, came up with a great plan to help motivate us.

    In the conference room there was a whiteboard with each of our names on it, and next to each name was a daily-updated count of the number of hours of unpaid overtime each of us had accumulated on the project.

    When each of us got to 100 hours of unpaid work, he would come in and give a little round of applause.

    Yay.

    for ease of access

    Maybe it's just because I'm not American, but I'm not sure I get why anyone would work even an hour unpaid. Fear of getting fired? And if you get fired for not doing more than you're contractually obligated to, then... I don't know... Sue 'em, I guess?

    We at least got TOIL (Time Off In Lieu, which is possibly one of the most hilariously inappropriate acronyms) when our company went on a fairly extreme cost cutting drive during the worst of the financial crisis. Got all of December off, and still carried a week into the next year. This wasn't with saving it up either, we had the brilliant idea to spend the odd hours of TOIL we generated to get the afternoons off on paydays - so we could just go to the pub and not come back. Turned what I thought til now could have been one of the most depressing work environments into a really good Summer.

    Unpaid overtime doesn't have to be terrible, as long as you've got good bosses.

    time for time is not anywhere close to unpaid overtime.

    Yeah, unpaid overtime is working for free. As in, you're at work, and they're not paying you in time, money, or kittens.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Personally, I've never worked unpaid overtime.

    Now, I've only ever had two jobs in my life, but still.

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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    Ohhh Issac Cox = "I suck cocks"

    I didn't even get it at first.

    I have 2 friends named Mike Cox and we don't make fun of them. Much.

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    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    by the way Khoo way to fail posting the comic.

    bring back the robot!!

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    jwalk wrote:
    Ohhh Issac Cox = "I suck cocks"

    I didn't even get it at first.

    I didn't either, since I read that as 'Eye-Say-Ick'.

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    I actually went "Isaac Cox? Really?" after the first comic was posted. Wondered how long it would be for it to be a direct joke.

    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Exempt employees, gooo.

    What is this I don't even.
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    GunnyswgGunnyswg Registered User new member
    Great thing about the military is there IS no overtime! Just doing your job. I really don't see the big fuss about un-paid overtime (it may be because I'm not paid by the hour/day) it is a job and you have to work it till your done.

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    LoneGunmanLoneGunman Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's called Exempt employees. Professionals, creatives, computer-related employment, executives, etc. In California, it means you're salaried. It also means there's no such thing as overtime. So, if you value your job, you could be made to work more than the requisite 40 hours without any additional pay. I've been working in startups for 12 years and because I came up the ranks as a programmer/software engineer, I was exempt. When you've got a mortgage, car payments, etc and especially when a) the market isn't that great or b) the other companies in your industry are doing the exact same thing, there isn't much latitude. Sure you can complain to the labor department or even try to sue but then good luck getting a job in that industry.

    Sometimes the best thing you can do is just play Russian roulette with jobs unless you hear about a company that actually treats their employees right. For me, I was generally lucky in that most of the companies didn't require anything more than one or two hours here and there. Then again, if you clocked in between 8 and 5 and left at exactly 5pm, good luck getting anywhere with your career when the guy next to you is staying a little later and looking better than you just because he's more "dedicated".

    The sad part is how easy it is to classify a job as exempt. It's supposed to be for professionals (think engineers, scientists) and executives. For certain categories, there's a minimum salary test required to ensure you don't take someone making $20k a year and classifying them as exempt.

    http://www.management-advantage.com/products/overtime-exempt.html

    For instance, you could consider QA personnel as "Administrative Exemptions" as long as they're paid the equivalent of 2X minimum wage (so, more than $33k). I've heard of people getting paid even less but my guess is they either didn't know the laws (you learn to when you first get categorized as exempt...just like you learn to understand non-compete laws; for instance, non-competes are largely toilet paper in California though the threat of a lawsuit, however frivolous, is enough to keep people from testing that theory) or they were in states that didn't have the same laws in place.

    Oh, and if you're in California, if you have a written employment contract, you are entitled to your unpaid salary within 72 hours of you giving notice or getting fired.

    http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_paydays.htm

    It helps to read up on this stuff. A lot of smaller companies without a lot of HR personnel are often unaware of the requirements. I learned most of this stuff because I had to for one reason or another.

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Bwanie what do you actually do as a job in oh fabled Europe? Because I know plenty of professionals salary there that do unpaid overtime because there is a hard deadline and every day missed means a lot of money.

    You work overtime because you are a professional. You don't get paid at that time but when it comes round to Christmas bonus time or review you tend to get a shitload more money than everyone else.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I think this is my favorite story. Bosses that are dumb are way funnier than bosses that are malicious.

    Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    101101 Registered User regular
    These stories make me glad for my job.
    flexi time is great

    and ahahaha Isaac Cox. I giggled, but then I'm a sucker for childish jokes.

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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Once again another foolish story from this weird and unlikeable comic. Really a 100 hours of unpaid work? If you have that much free time on your hand, come to my house and I'll give you some overtime chores.

    They'd have a lot more time on their hands if they didn't do it since they'd be out of a job.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Gunnyswg wrote:
    Great thing about the military is there IS no overtime! Just doing your job. I really don't see the big fuss about un-paid overtime (it may be because I'm not paid by the hour/day) it is a job and you have to work it till your done.

    There's no fuss except where employees intentionally understaff, forcing unpaid overtime.

    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
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    MaverikkMaverikk Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    plufim wrote:
    Gunnyswg wrote:
    Great thing about the military is there IS no overtime! Just doing your job. I really don't see the big fuss about un-paid overtime (it may be because I'm not paid by the hour/day) it is a job and you have to work it till your done.

    There's no fuss except where employees intentionally understaff, forcing unpaid overtime.

    So exactly like the military. Except, intentionally is replaced with unintentionally, but still the same concept.

    On the side, I work for DoD, and I work with a person from the UK's Ministry of Defense. We're always working an hour past the end of our shift, yet he's always gone an hour before. Gets pretty angry if you say the word "schedule" around him, too. Europeans are silly people.

    Maverikk on
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