Fighting game re-education: Arcade stick edition (super turbo dream match 2012)

TetraNitroCubane

Just a warning in advance, this is going to sound pretty stupid.

I love me some fighting games. I've been playing them for years, starting on the genesis and on through to the current generation. I've played them on most every console I've owned, and probably will continue to. The only issue is, well, I'm pretty gosh-darned terrible at them. Recent endeavors to play MvC3 on my 360 left me feeling like I didn't have the kind of reliable, reproducible control that I'd like to have. It's not a big deal, and I'm not trying to "go pro" or anything - I'd just like to have fun with said games without getting mashed into defeat before pulling off a single move. Keeping up with folks online to the point that we can both have an enjoyable fight would be nice.

I've heard that gamepads are less than optimal for fighting games, and considering that it's one of my favorite genres, I bit the bullet and invested in a Hori arcade stick (VX-SA). I've heard tell that arcade sticks are just about the best way to play said games, after all. The stick is really nice, and works well... The only issue is holy crap I feel like I have no idea how to use this thing! I gather that a lot of it will come with practice, but at the moment my attempts to execute simple moves send me flying all over the place, and move execution fidelity is at an all time low.

Again, I realize it's probably just a matter of practice and familiarity - But I'm wondering if it's not also an issue of technique, and I'm just unfamiliar with the proper way to use said stick. Does anyone have any tips, or good advice as to how to get used to using an Arcade stick? Silly as the question may sound, I'd appreciate any help that could be offered. Thanks!

chamberlain

There's no secret, you just have to re-learn all the motions.

Go into practice mode and just practice fireballs. Do them over and over from both directions until they never fail. If they are not coming out turn on the input view so you can see exactly what part of the motion you are missing; most likely you are not getting from DF to F before hitting a button. Next move to the DP motion (and don't rely on the Street Fighter 4 df, df shortcut). All the muscle memory you have from using a gamepad is worthless and you have to start over.

Also, I would bind the forth button on each row to three punches and three kicks. Hitting all three buttons at the same time when going for an ultra is a little more difficult than it would seem.

Hit up the Street Fighter and Marvel threads in G&T, you will find advice from people much better than I in both.

TetraNitroCubane

That's a sound way to approach the issue. I just keep flying all over the place, and I'm wondering if grabbing a square-gated stick wasn't a bad idea. I seem to keep overshooting forward to forward-up, and I keep falling short of backward at backward-down. I guess it is just a matter of rebuilding muscle memory, though, so I'll grind on practice mode for a while until I get something resembling chops. I was just wondering if there's a 'proper' way to hold the stick and/or approach the buttons.

I'll admit that my Bread n' Butter games are largely SNK / KoF 4-button games, but I'll also take your advice regarding the mapping for 3P and 3K moves in capcom fighters. I'm having a harder time than I thought I would reliably executing emergency rolls in KoF `98 (LP+LK) at the moment, so I can only imagine what pushing three buttons at once would be like.

Hahnsoo1

Just don't do what a co-worker of mine did all the time on our Super Turbo cabinet. He would hold the stick by wrapping his entire palm and all his fingers around it in a deathgrip, holding it like a flightstick. When he would do a fireball or dragon punch, he would let go of the stick after doing the motion. This meant that he only had about a 50% ratio of successful fireballs or dragon punches. He got offended when other folks (some of who go to Evo and compete every year) told him to change his grip (which was likely damaging the cabinet) and told him that letting go of the stick while trying to do a special move was a terrible idea.

The two methods that were taught to me were the "wine glass" (hold the "stem" between your middle and ring fingers, like a wine glass) and the "marble toss" (hold the ball of the stick between your thumb and index finger, like shooting a marble). I tend to switch between the two of them depending on whether or not I play a charge character. I can't play Gief, for example, if I'm using the wineglass.

It's not just "practice makes perfect", but it's "perfect practice makes perfect". You can learn a LOT of bad habits if you don't focus your practice (like letting go of the stick at any time).

Mmmm... Cocks...

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

When he would do a fireball or dragon punch, he would let go of the stick after doing the motion.

Grip can be important. But I didn't want this little part to sneak by.
It can be important to let the stick come back to neutral in combos. Don't just go to town on the stick.

chamberlain

Mmmm... Cocks... wrote:

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

When he would do a fireball or dragon punch, he would let go of the stick after doing the motion.

Grip can be important. But I didn't want this little part to sneak by.
It can be important to let the stick come back to neutral in combos. Don't just go to town on the stick.

With command characters anyway. Play a charge character and your default position is always down/back. Of course that could be one of my problems.

To the OP, it sounds like you are riding the gate and getting stuck in the corner. You don't need to bury the stick all the way in the corner to get df. It's just a matter of feeling how far you have to go.

chamberlain

Damnit, why did I quote myself.

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How you grip the stick and do the motions will eventually determine how loose you want it to be. If you're having trouble with exaggerated, extra motions, if you find that the stick is getting away from you, then try to match it. If you have a loose stick that bounces all over the place then try not to let it go. If you have a tense stick that always want to be at neutral, then try lighter motions.

For the buttons, that will depend. I'm a purist, so any game that was originally designed for sticks, and so doesn't have required button macros, I'll play with the original layout. But my execution has always been so-so, something that I'm fine with, since I stick to low-execution characters. If you want to and feel that the game demands it, then get a few button macros in there. They're tourney legal and nobody cares. As you say you play snk games then you should be familiar with the neo-geo button layout. You can stick with that for your natural hand position and do fine. Thumb on the bottom left, index, middle, and ring fingers on the top row. You can use your little finger if it feels comfortable, but it's not required. You want a roll, that's thumb+index finger. You want 3 punches, press you 3 fingers down. Depending on the game, it's important to not rely on only 2 digits (thumb and index finger, or index and middle fingers). You'll want to be comfortable with at least 3, so you can piano about for consecutive inputs without having to move your entire hand. This is pretty much the same principle that people eventually get to with mouse sensitivity in fps games.

Try to rest your stick on a flat surface rather than your lap, especially when you're just learning how to use it. Having it at an angle will mess up your motions quite a bit, especially with a looser or octagonal gate. Find a little table or something you can rest it on, or sit on the floor in front of a coffee table. For extended play keep it elevated so you don't have to bend your back to reach it, and not so high up that your wrists press down on the edges of the stick or table, which can interfere with the blood flow. You'll eventually find a height that is comfortable, and stick with that configuration.

Hahnsoo1

Mmmm... Cocks... wrote:

Hahnsoo1 wrote:

When he would do a fireball or dragon punch, he would let go of the stick after doing the motion.

Grip can be important. But I didn't want this little part to sneak by.
It can be important to let the stick come back to neutral in combos. Don't just go to town on the stick.

His actual hand would release the stick and his hand would go in the air, like he was doing some sort of "flair" thing. Remember, this same person was gripping the stick with his whole hand like a flightstick. You can let the stick go back to neutral without losing control of the stick. If you want any stick input after going back to neutral, you pretty much have to.

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That sort of thing was common in arcades, and either really annoying or kind of hilarious. There were people who just did that. Wake-up srk that they're sure will hit? BAM! Hand goes flying off the stick, button gets slapped dramatically. Sometimes they would look over. It was always a riot when it backfired on them.