Bioware romances - what have I missed?

Dhalphir

Hey all,

This is a sort of a secret shame for me, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this, so why the hell not.

I really enjoy the corny romances that permeate most Bioware games. Whether that's Nathyrra in the Hordes of the Underdark expansion to Neverwinter or the various romance options in Mass Effect, I like them all.

I'm curious, however, if I've missed any good ones. The Bioware games I've played to date are

Neverwinter Nights original campaign
Shadows of Undrentide
Hordes of the Underdark

Mass Effect 1
Mass Effect 2

Dragon Age 1
Dragon Age 2

I'm told NWN2 has romances, but I haven't tried the game yet. I think Baldur's Gate 2 might be a little outdated for me to enjoy playing but if the romances are enjoyable I might try to battle through it.

Casually Hardcore

Baldur's Gate have some good romance options, particularly number 2 with expansion (hell, you could skip 1 if you really just want to romance).

Zxerol

You're willing to "battle" through what you consider an outmoded, outdated game just to get your virtual hanky-panky on? Er, okay I guess. Whatever floats yer boat.

Viconia is the best one, fact. Anyone who suggest otherwise is a charlatan and a liar.

Dhalphir

Oh, I've also played the user-made extension to Neverwinter Nights that goes into more detail about an Aribeth romance.

Yeah...I'm that bad.

daveNYC

Jade Empire and KOTOR. Never played KOTOR 2, but I assume it has hot monkey sex dialogue options in it.

Cubemonkey

Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age, Dragon Age 2...

Casually Hardcore

OH yeah, Dragon Age have some interesting Romance Options. Mass Effect romance options blew.

....why do the hell do I know so much about this?

Magic Pink

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

-SPI-

Jade Empire has probably the most expansive romance options of any bioware game. Both genders, straight/gay/lesbian and even a three way romance. They really tried to cover all the bases in that game, to the point where it seemed odd when games after Jade Empire didn't go as far.

Dhalphir

wait I forgot Dragon Age 1 and 2. WOOOPS

played them both.

Cade

Baldur's Gate II not only allowed you to have romances but you could have a baby in one!

It took up a slot in the inventory.

Synthesis

KOTOR2 has some varied relationship choices for both genders of Exile.

TychoCelchuuu

Magic Pink wrote:

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

This. It's better to talk about BioWare "romances." Even though KOTOR II is not a BioWare game, I'd head there for a slightly better take on things than "talk to me after each mission on a hub planet and select the 'don't be an asshole' prompts and then you'll see me in my underwear in a cutscene." NWN2 also isn't a BioWare game.

-Tal

Sonic Chronicles actually has a romance subplot with Amy. If you can swallow Mass Effect romances it shouldn't be too bad.

WotanAnubis

TychoCelchuuu wrote:

Magic Pink wrote:

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

This. It's better to talk about BioWare "romances." Even though KOTOR II is not a BioWare game, I'd head there for a slightly better take on things than "talk to me after each mission on a hub planet and select the 'don't be an asshole' prompts and then you'll see me in my underwear in a cutscene." NWN2 also isn't a BioWare game.

This where Jade Empire sort of shines. OK, yes, you do have to talk to people after each mission in every hub, but you can totally pick the 'be an asshole' prompts. All you have to do is convince your intended that your Closed Fist viewpoint is the right way to do things. This even carries over into the endgame where, if you start committing all kinds of atrocities, your beloved doesn't turn on you because they now agree with what you're doing. Which neatly mingles "romance" with character development.

daveNYC

TychoCelchuuu wrote:

Magic Pink wrote:

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

This. It's better to talk about BioWare "romances." Even though KOTOR II is not a BioWare game, I'd head there for a slightly better take on things than "talk to me after each mission on a hub planet and select the 'don't be an asshole' prompts and then you'll see me in my underwear in a cutscene." NWN2 also isn't a BioWare game.

Heck, in KOTOR I'm not even sure that being the asshole would stop you from getting laid. Jade Empire wasn't too bad though. ME1 was horrible for that though. The Bioware guys really need to allow for a 'just friends' conversation path.

tsmvengy

Is Jade Empire any good on PC or is it a crappy port? I've only ever played part of it on Xbox.

Synthesis

daveNYC wrote:

TychoCelchuuu wrote:

Magic Pink wrote:

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

This. It's better to talk about BioWare "romances." Even though KOTOR II is not a BioWare game, I'd head there for a slightly better take on things than "talk to me after each mission on a hub planet and select the 'don't be an asshole' prompts and then you'll see me in my underwear in a cutscene." NWN2 also isn't a BioWare game.

Heck, in KOTOR I'm not even sure that being the asshole would stop you from getting laid. Jade Empire wasn't too bad though. ME1 was horrible for that though. The Bioware guys really need to allow for a 'just friends' conversation path.

ME2 still has Shepard trying to jump into Jacob's pants at the slightest provocation.

Cantido

This pretty much sums up Mass Effect.

lionheart_m

-Tal wrote:

Sonic Chronicles actually has a romance subplot with Amy. If you can swallow Mass Effect romances it shouldn't be too bad.

What? Really? I...really?

Zxerol

Gotta get that furry demographic, yo.

daveNYC

Synthesis wrote:

daveNYC wrote:

TychoCelchuuu wrote:

Magic Pink wrote:

Bioware romances are so incredibly poorly handled that I'll never, ever willingly own one of their games again. They really just need to remove them completely.

This. It's better to talk about BioWare "romances." Even though KOTOR II is not a BioWare game, I'd head there for a slightly better take on things than "talk to me after each mission on a hub planet and select the 'don't be an asshole' prompts and then you'll see me in my underwear in a cutscene." NWN2 also isn't a BioWare game.

Heck, in KOTOR I'm not even sure that being the asshole would stop you from getting laid. Jade Empire wasn't too bad though. ME1 was horrible for that though. The Bioware guys really need to allow for a 'just friends' conversation path.

ME2 still has Shepard trying to jump into Jacob's pants at the slightest provocation.

Never rolled with FemShep. ME2 did a horrible job with Tali though. They gave you a trusted teammate and good buddy from the first game, and when you treated her as such she gets all 'lets risk my life by gettin nekkid'. ME1 had Liara, where the conversation choices were 'sorry about your mom' and 'your mom was evil and it's genetic'.

Cantido

Cloudeagle has a word or two about Sonic Chronicles. Which is a shame because I was dwelling on Bioware handling an Eastern IP. But from what I hear Xenosaga is the cure for the common JRPG.

A big peeve of mine is these JRPG heroes who act like douchebags while chicks throw their vaginas at them. Its why Zidane is my favorite JRPG protagonist. Stocke of Radiant Historia is another one.

Cambiata

I... I generally like Bioware romances. Is that bad? The 'sex' scenes are always terrible, of course. But I like "unlocking" sexy/romantical dialogue from my companions. So far I think DA:O does it best, though, since you don't have to wait for specific locations to unlock dialogue, and your companions will actually comment on the situation with each other.

I don't mind ME1 & 2's romance options, I actually think they suit Commander "who has time for romance/friendship, I'm just here to fuck" Shepard. But as a romantic, DA's options are more pleasant for me.

TrueHereticX

I too prefer DA:O's romance options (of which I gravitated towards Leilana). They seemed alot less forced than other games options.

Also the friendships in DA:O seemed to me to evolve in a more natural way.

-Tal

DAO has bad romances because you can go from ambivalence to devotion in one conversation. Even Mass Effect usually takes two or three! DA2 forever, because your relationship is developed over years.

Cambiata

-Tal wrote:

DAO has bad romances because you can go from ambivalence to devotion in one conversation. Even Mass Effect usually takes two or three! DA2 forever, because your relationship is developed over years.

That was a really good gift you gave.

I still prefer it, since it leaves the pace in control of the player.

Vi Monks

-Tal wrote:

DAO has bad romances because you can go from ambivalence to devotion in one conversation. Even Mass Effect usually takes two or three! DA2 forever, because your relationship is developed over years.

This. Morrigan will fall in love with you mere hours after meeting her.

-Tal

Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

Vi Monks

-Tal wrote:

Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

Yeah, any character depth that might have come out of a romance is made impossible when you can jump right to the finish line like that. Felt extremely video gamey.

reVerse

I really liked the Merrill romance in DA2. She's very likeable and it wasn't a perfect fairy tale relationship because of that thing that Merrill obsesses over. I was genuinely worried about her.

Z0re

reVerse wrote:

I really liked the Merrill romance in DA2. She's very likeable and it wasn't a perfect fairy tale relationship because of that thing that Merrill obsesses over. I was genuinely worried about her.

Merrill was also about the most normal person you could romance in DA2. Which is saying something considering her massive social issues and generally broken psyche.

Then again

When your competition is an abomination, an amnesiac slave and a selfish asshole pirate with issues its not to hard to come out on top.

I mean, I liked those characters, but they were all pretty broken people.

daveNYC

Vi Monks wrote:

-Tal wrote:

Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

Yeah, any character depth that might have come out of a romance is made impossible when you can jump right to the finish line like that. Felt extremely video gamey.

Although they did make "Nice shoes, lets fuck." a workable strategy. So that counts. For something.

-Tal

Yeah, one other criticism I have of Bioware romances is that they are too dramatic and focused on "fixing" people. This is where the Sonic/Amy romance actually stands out. Just two well-adjusted characters that care for each other.

Cantido

daveNYC wrote:

Vi Monks wrote:

-Tal wrote:

Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

Yeah, any character depth that might have come out of a romance is made impossible when you can jump right to the finish line like that. Felt extremely video gamey.

Although they did make "Nice shoes, lets fuck." a workable strategy. So that counts. For something.

That's The Witcher. Which I still need to finish.

In that game, a lady offered me ass if I went out to find a flower for her.

daveNYC

Again, Jade Empire is pretty not bad in that category.

piL

I want your ugly, I want your disease :whistle:

Jade Empire had pretty ok romances, but I always just feel worse for doing romances in video games and so I don't have a lot of experience.

captaink

tsmvengy wrote:

Is Jade Empire any good on PC or is it a crappy port? I've only ever played part of it on Xbox.

From what I remember, it's fine. I played it years ago.

Cambiata

-Tal wrote:

Putting the pace in control of the player is the problem, because it ends up feeling very one-sided.

This makes me curious as to what the solution would be. Either the romance can't progress until X map location is reached and "completed" which feels false, or the pace is in the hands of the player, meaning you can 'win' the romance instantly which also feels false. Is there a third option?

Free Giraffe Rides!!!

-Tal wrote:

Yeah, one other criticism I have of Bioware romances is that they are too dramatic and focused on "fixing" people. This is where the Sonic/Amy romance actually stands out. Just two well-adjusted characters that care for each other.

Please be ironic, please be ironic

-Tal

It really just comes down to good writing to make those progress points feel natural. Also maybe they can actually let you go on dates in the meantime instead of having stiff conversations in camp/on the ship.