Anyone who has dismissed MP3 just because some of it is in daylight and at some point he goes bald is an idiot. Aside from the argument that "it's not noir" being wrong, they haven't even touched the game yet and know almost nothing about the plot.
People are just so stupid sometimes, I swear. If this was identical to 1 and 2 with Max wearing the same suit, having the same look, running through the same environments, people would say it's the same thing. When they try to do something different, they say it's not Max Payne. Both trailers of MP3 have been perfect. They retain the style of the franchise while bringing Max into new places with different looks and the same voice actor we know and love. Judging from the gameplay videos, it looks like classic Payne gameplay while adding a whole lot of cool stuff.
@Heisenberg:
Hm. First of all, I don't see this kind of stupidity in this thread. I know it's out there, but I feel like I'm missing the immediate context here.
Secondly, I'm taking on the precarious mission of defending stupidity in this case.
There's a group of people out there that are regular zealots, always have been, always will be. They saw the initial Max Payne press announcement with all the changes, jumped ship and never got on board again, never intend to, maybe never will. Some in that group are certainly stupid.
Then there's people who are pissed with the changes. Not necessarily stupid.
1. A setting can be an actual character. In fact, in solid narrative video games, it most frequently is (e.g. Rapture). New York was a character, and I think significant. If they were to remove an important character from any kind of story, there'd always be fallout, so I find it understandable to be at least less than pleased about the, possibly unnecessary, removal of New York.
2. It's by Rockstar, not Remedy. Why dig out a franchise when you want to try something different, anyway? Especially considering how the ending of MP 2 hinted at a sequel. The parasitic idea of franchise exploitation finds a way to enter the paranoid mind here.
3. The initial announcement was a marketing disaster. All the audience got to know was: No Sam Lake. No New York. Weird looking Max. Awful looking screenshots. That's what the first impression was, and first impressions count. Since then, the game has been subject to multiple delays and certain shifts in philosophy and style, implying to me that Rockstar had to make unexpected changes, adapting their vision to something that was closer to the original Max Payne, which again implies to me that their original vision could very much have sucked. This makes me naturally skeptical about the adapted vision.
I understand, some people are overreacting. However, this is the internet we're talking about.
But not all of those skeptical, maybe even dismissive, about Max Payne 3, are stupid.
In the end, this is what Max Payne 3 will be. This is what you get. Like it or don't, it's really that simple.
No one knows how the setting(s) in Max Payne 3 will work in relation to the narrative. We know what the places look like, but whether or not they work well in context of the game, we don't know.
Remedy has given Rockstar their blessing for the game and has even come in to help in whatever small ways they can.
Every game goes through changes and revisions, especially big AAA games these days. They take forever to develop. If anything, Rockstar was being generous to the fans for giving out info and screenshots over the years. Judgement is expected but any first impressions should be absolutely forgotten as new stuff comes out since the developers never had to release the early stuff in the first place.
Being skeptical is one thing, but almost every other internet site I've seen has random people absolutely shitting all over MP3 and saying it's not Max Payne. Everything that's been shown lately for the game has been amazing. I guess it just makes me disgusted with how jaded and short sighted some gamers are. Stuff being released these days can be pretty amazing, but the first thing that comes to some people's minds is just to complain instead of actually thinking about what the game could be about.
I found MP1 on Xbox for £2.50 on Saturday, which suits me fine because I already have it on Steam but my PC would now a dust-filled relic from a distant era. Not having played 1 or 2 for a long time, I was pleased with this purchase.
Ok, so I'm playing through the second one (the first got put on hold after the audio issues. I'll get to them once I finish the second.) and I have to say that, beyond the narration, I'm not really getting much of a noir vibe. Yeah, it's new york at night, but sub in some slightly different dialogue, and it could easily just be another bombastic action flic. I suppose that it's a lot to do with the fact that it feels like an old game, just the way that it's structured (not saying it's bad, it's just that it's as much a product of it's era as anything else that came out then), but still. I'm interested to see if rockstar does anything more with the noir aesthetic in Sao Paulo, if they can actually capture the mood a bit more. At any rate, I still quite like this.
I was watching the "weapons and aiming" video they released a while back. Admittedly, if nothing else that seems like an area of solid improvement over the previous two Max Paynes. Honestly, the change in both locale and visual presentation doesn't really bug me all that much. The style of narration and the style of story seems similar enough that I suspect it won't bother me much. The only thing I might miss a bit would be the "comic panel" bits of storytelling that added alot of the noir feel in the first two games. Then again, for all we know maybe those are still there and they just haven't shown them in previews.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
They've got them, but they move now. Its basically comic panels with movies in them.
I agree with kadoken, that bit of writing was pretty awkward. But it was just a snippet.
I also think that the presentation itself was impressive.
But the art direction so far seems so disjointed, and not "noir" at all.
I still believe Max Payne 3 will be at least a very good title that's just not really Max Payne and with possibly cheesy plot and writing (which some might argue is very Max Payne, but ah well).
the 360 is BC with MP 1 and 2, which are both hella cheap now (i found them used for $4 on amazon)
i played through them last year, they hold up if you can deal with a few shitty level designs
Local H Jay on
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I think you can get 2 on Xbox Games on Demand. PC versions won't work with a gamepad at all. I'd recommend using a mouse anyway. Headshots are nice.
Bvcvvcc
Mods are too.
Personal recommendationsewd: Kung-fu for Max Payne 1 and Cinema mod 3.0 for Max Payne 2. Kung Fu gives you a lot of neat tricks and melee attacks. After cinema mod, I really couldn't play the other mods (besides vanilla). It adds more blood, gives Max shades, gives Mona a new outfit. However, the part that I was most addicted to was the music. Every time you go in bullet time, it plays a song from an action movie, making everything more epic.
P.S. even though I love Equilibrium, the Hall of Mirrors mod wasn't very good. Felt kind of awkward doing the gun kata moves.
Not big on mods really but glad to hear the xbox versions work on the 360, I'll be sure to pick them up! I'm a lazy gamer and I can't slouch on my sofa with a keyboard and mouse.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I really hope Max's VA goes back to his drained neutral tone. I don't like what he's doing here.
Rockstar, please don't fuck up the John Wooing (Actobatics) because you want it to be more realistic. When I think of a cover system in MP, I think of a place where I can get recuperated, plan my attack, and launch myself in bullet time over a table or something.
They seemed really keen to suggest that the cover system isn't the meat of the game. I don't think that the enemies will try to use it as much as in cover based shooters, and it sounds like rockstar is really keen preventing players from simply hiding in cover and popping shots at other enemies who are also behind cover. I think I remember them saying that they've designed the levels so that you'll be flanked, and forced to keep on moving and diving. Every time they've descibed it, it's pretty much exactly as you said.
I'm really looking forward to this. It seems like it'll be a pretty great game. And I'm glad that they are including more peaceful moments to walk around and do stuff. I always find playing older games a bit wierd since they most just have combat and then cutscenes.
They seemed really keen to suggest that the cover system isn't the meat of the game. I don't think that the enemies will try to use it as much as in cover based shooters, and it sounds like rockstar is really keen preventing players from simply hiding in cover and popping shots at other enemies who are also behind cover. I think I remember them saying that they've designed the levels so that you'll be flanked, and forced to keep on moving and diving. Every time they've descibed it, it's pretty much exactly as you said.
Well, it sounds like cover will be destructible, so even if either you/or enemies take cover it looks like unless your cover is a hardened material you'll be able to eventually wear it down or even destroy it outright. I have no issues with how the gameplay looks, I think my only worries revolve around the narrative style. So far it doesn't look like they'll be using the noir/comic book style presentation the previous two games used. Which isn't a dealbreaker I suppose, but it will make the game feel different.
They seem to be using a comic-style setup. The images may be moving, but, from the last video, it looks like they use a lot of comic panel looking things in cutscenes, along with the written narration text. Also, I suppose that I never really got much beyond a half-serious, half-mocking vibe noir vibe from the first two. Granted, I only played them for the first time about a month ago, but it felt like you could have changed the voice-over to something a little more 'action hero-y', and had much the same game. Granted, it has quite a bit of charm to it, but it's charm, not the meat of the game.
I think that rockstar has a chance to pull of something much more noir-ish than the last game, both in terms of story and overall vibe.
@Lalabox: The postmodern noir pastiche/parody thing was a large part of what made Max Payne what it was. I have to say, I wasn't a big fan of the first game, but the second one absolutely clicked for me - and in how it combined noir and parody, it achieved something that IMO no other game has quite managed in the same way, or indeed tried.
I'm very willing to give Max Payne 3 a chance, but I'll still be sad if they really dropped as much of what made its predecessor worked as it seems.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I want Max to do more metaphors. If they make Max just a depressed "Angsty person because my family and girfriend died and I'm a drunk grr" that's going to harm the character.
No doubt in MP1/2 he's an introvert and thought of his family's death all the time, but the new drunken nature is kind of a turn off. In fact, I can't remember when Max drank a lot in MP1/2, sure there was the odd drink here and there with friends, but he wasn't a complete drunk.
I want Max to do more metaphors. If they make Max just a depressed "Angsty person because my family and girfriend died and I'm a drunk grr" that's going to harm the character.
No doubt in MP1/2 he's an introvert and thought of his family's death all the time, but the new drunken nature is kind of a turn off. In fact, I can't remember when Max drank a lot in MP1/2, sure there was the odd drink here and there with friends, but he wasn't a complete drunk.
Actually there was a hint in MP2 that he was a bit of a drunk. If you get to the sniper next early on, and listen to the tapes, Bravura calls him out on it.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
The best part of that one is that he apparently calls up phone sex hotlines in an attempt to talk about his problems.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I want Max to do more metaphors. If they make Max just a depressed "Angsty person because my family and girfriend died and I'm a drunk grr" that's going to harm the character.
No doubt in MP1/2 he's an introvert and thought of his family's death all the time, but the new drunken nature is kind of a turn off. In fact, I can't remember when Max drank a lot in MP1/2, sure there was the odd drink here and there with friends, but he wasn't a complete drunk.
Actually there was a hint in MP2 that he was a bit of a drunk. If you get to the sniper next early on, and listen to the tapes, Bravura calls him out on it.
AA isn't just for alcoholics. Plus, in his apartment you don't see any beer bottles or anything.
I thought that it was just that Bravura thought that he was an alcoholic, when he was mostly just addicted to painkillers. I think that now he's just going full out with things to help him ease the pain now.
While I thought that the noir part was still quite good, and it raised a few laughs here and there, it never felt like an intrinsic part of the game. I'm sure it was always part of the design, and I really don't think that it happened like this, but it just came accross as largely superficial and tacked on. You had max's monologues and the comic strip cutscenes, but there didn't feel like there was much in the game that gave it a noir feel, not so much in the story, nor in the overall presentation. And what was there generally felt like it was taking the piss, like the metaphors. Quite a bit of this is due to when it was made, but still. You just felt like 'Max Payne-Action Hero', who just tended to angst about everything.
I still like it, and I'm sure that it wouldn't have quite a special place in peoples' hearts without the whole noir thing, but I kinda have faith in Rockstar to make a much more comprehensively noir narrative, if only because it's a bit more modern. I mean, Remedy managed to incorporate the narrative into the game quite a bit better when they made Alan Wake, so I would have faith in them if they had gone and made Max Payne 3. I hope that Tockstar doesn't go completely serious, and they leave in the stuff like max's metaphors, and the funny overheard conversations, but generally, I think this game will be good.
So hot. Bullet Time in multi seems kind of hilarious, but I want to try it.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
...That multiplayer video on RPS gave me more hope for this game. However, the people still DO NOT SHOOTDODGE! Come on! That with bullet time were the best powers at Max's disposal!
Posts
People are just so stupid sometimes, I swear. If this was identical to 1 and 2 with Max wearing the same suit, having the same look, running through the same environments, people would say it's the same thing. When they try to do something different, they say it's not Max Payne. Both trailers of MP3 have been perfect. They retain the style of the franchise while bringing Max into new places with different looks and the same voice actor we know and love. Judging from the gameplay videos, it looks like classic Payne gameplay while adding a whole lot of cool stuff.
Hm. First of all, I don't see this kind of stupidity in this thread. I know it's out there, but I feel like I'm missing the immediate context here.
Secondly, I'm taking on the precarious mission of defending stupidity in this case.
There's a group of people out there that are regular zealots, always have been, always will be. They saw the initial Max Payne press announcement with all the changes, jumped ship and never got on board again, never intend to, maybe never will. Some in that group are certainly stupid.
Then there's people who are pissed with the changes. Not necessarily stupid.
1. A setting can be an actual character. In fact, in solid narrative video games, it most frequently is (e.g. Rapture). New York was a character, and I think significant. If they were to remove an important character from any kind of story, there'd always be fallout, so I find it understandable to be at least less than pleased about the, possibly unnecessary, removal of New York.
2. It's by Rockstar, not Remedy. Why dig out a franchise when you want to try something different, anyway? Especially considering how the ending of MP 2 hinted at a sequel. The parasitic idea of franchise exploitation finds a way to enter the paranoid mind here.
3. The initial announcement was a marketing disaster. All the audience got to know was: No Sam Lake. No New York. Weird looking Max. Awful looking screenshots. That's what the first impression was, and first impressions count. Since then, the game has been subject to multiple delays and certain shifts in philosophy and style, implying to me that Rockstar had to make unexpected changes, adapting their vision to something that was closer to the original Max Payne, which again implies to me that their original vision could very much have sucked. This makes me naturally skeptical about the adapted vision.
I understand, some people are overreacting. However, this is the internet we're talking about.
But not all of those skeptical, maybe even dismissive, about Max Payne 3, are stupid.
In the end, this is what Max Payne 3 will be. This is what you get. Like it or don't, it's really that simple.
Remedy has given Rockstar their blessing for the game and has even come in to help in whatever small ways they can.
Every game goes through changes and revisions, especially big AAA games these days. They take forever to develop. If anything, Rockstar was being generous to the fans for giving out info and screenshots over the years. Judgement is expected but any first impressions should be absolutely forgotten as new stuff comes out since the developers never had to release the early stuff in the first place.
Being skeptical is one thing, but almost every other internet site I've seen has random people absolutely shitting all over MP3 and saying it's not Max Payne. Everything that's been shown lately for the game has been amazing. I guess it just makes me disgusted with how jaded and short sighted some gamers are. Stuff being released these days can be pretty amazing, but the first thing that comes to some people's minds is just to complain instead of actually thinking about what the game could be about.
I watched some trailers and stuff on my Xbox so I could hear Max's voice n whatnot. Dat weapons and aiming video
Steam // Secret Satan
Seriously, thought it would be near the end of the year.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
I saw that giantbomb was covering the game this week, looked up the release date and went "Wait, what?".
Will get it sooner or later though. Max payne 2 was one of my favourite shooters.
So very looking forward to this!!
Pills will ease The Payne. He's speaking in third-person.
This game might be bad.
I was very optimistic until now. Also the writing might be atrocious. Very.
I also think that the presentation itself was impressive.
But the art direction so far seems so disjointed, and not "noir" at all.
I still believe Max Payne 3 will be at least a very good title that's just not really Max Payne and with possibly cheesy plot and writing (which some might argue is very Max Payne, but ah well).
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
i played through them last year, they hold up if you can deal with a few shitty level designs
Mods are too.
Personal recommendationsewd: Kung-fu for Max Payne 1 and Cinema mod 3.0 for Max Payne 2. Kung Fu gives you a lot of neat tricks and melee attacks. After cinema mod, I really couldn't play the other mods (besides vanilla). It adds more blood, gives Max shades, gives Mona a new outfit. However, the part that I was most addicted to was the music. Every time you go in bullet time, it plays a song from an action movie, making everything more epic.
P.S. even though I love Equilibrium, the Hall of Mirrors mod wasn't very good. Felt kind of awkward doing the gun kata moves.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Rockstar, please don't fuck up the John Wooing (Actobatics) because you want it to be more realistic. When I think of a cover system in MP, I think of a place where I can get recuperated, plan my attack, and launch myself in bullet time over a table or something.
I'm really looking forward to this. It seems like it'll be a pretty great game. And I'm glad that they are including more peaceful moments to walk around and do stuff. I always find playing older games a bit wierd since they most just have combat and then cutscenes.
Steam // Secret Satan
Well, it sounds like cover will be destructible, so even if either you/or enemies take cover it looks like unless your cover is a hardened material you'll be able to eventually wear it down or even destroy it outright. I have no issues with how the gameplay looks, I think my only worries revolve around the narrative style. So far it doesn't look like they'll be using the noir/comic book style presentation the previous two games used. Which isn't a dealbreaker I suppose, but it will make the game feel different.
I think that rockstar has a chance to pull of something much more noir-ish than the last game, both in terms of story and overall vibe.
Steam // Secret Satan
I'm very willing to give Max Payne 3 a chance, but I'll still be sad if they really dropped as much of what made its predecessor worked as it seems.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
No doubt in MP1/2 he's an introvert and thought of his family's death all the time, but the new drunken nature is kind of a turn off. In fact, I can't remember when Max drank a lot in MP1/2, sure there was the odd drink here and there with friends, but he wasn't a complete drunk.
I really liked that part.
AA isn't just for alcoholics. Plus, in his apartment you don't see any beer bottles or anything.
While I thought that the noir part was still quite good, and it raised a few laughs here and there, it never felt like an intrinsic part of the game. I'm sure it was always part of the design, and I really don't think that it happened like this, but it just came accross as largely superficial and tacked on. You had max's monologues and the comic strip cutscenes, but there didn't feel like there was much in the game that gave it a noir feel, not so much in the story, nor in the overall presentation. And what was there generally felt like it was taking the piss, like the metaphors. Quite a bit of this is due to when it was made, but still. You just felt like 'Max Payne-Action Hero', who just tended to angst about everything.
I still like it, and I'm sure that it wouldn't have quite a special place in peoples' hearts without the whole noir thing, but I kinda have faith in Rockstar to make a much more comprehensively noir narrative, if only because it's a bit more modern. I mean, Remedy managed to incorporate the narrative into the game quite a bit better when they made Alan Wake, so I would have faith in them if they had gone and made Max Payne 3. I hope that Tockstar doesn't go completely serious, and they leave in the stuff like max's metaphors, and the funny overheard conversations, but generally, I think this game will be good.
Steam // Secret Satan
I'm betting 2.