It's just creepy. I mean, my favorite comic book characters are Ms. Marvel and the Black Widow (a very distant second). I appreciate them being sexy at times. I do not, however, want to see them having sex, or even really about to have sex or just having had sex where there is clearly a graphic element present.
In a graphic medium, how are you going to make it clear that they are in a sexual locus (about to/are having/have just) without showing it?
That's when you show the footage of trains going into tunnels, hot dogs going into buns, and rockets blasting off.
You know what? Yeah, basically. Frankly, I don't want to see cartoon or comic book characters having sex. If I want to see sex I will watch real people having sex. The fact that characters have sex may be a compelling or even intrinsic part of the story. However, I have never felt the need nor seen the value in actually showing it.
I have selfish reasons. My favorite character to write about right now, the one in my profile pic/avatar, is one of the most powerful people in the entire universe. However, she is almost exclusively known for and has been notorious for 15 years for the fact that the most character development (and I use that term loosely) she ever got was in a series of sex scenes in the tie-in novels. I don't care that it happened. I do care that it's most of what was written about her, and like basically all written erotica it was just bad.
Fictional sex scenes just strike me as gratuitous, and poisonous, and wasteful, and useless. I don't get why anyone wants to read it or write it. I just don't see the value in it, and most of it is just awful anyway, and it's certainly not what I want when I want to be stimulated.
I have nothing to say about Starfire. It's just not worth thinking about.
Crimsondude on
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
I see panel to panel work like a beat of a drum. Building up the rhythm with a tap of the base, and a snap of the snare and then the banging of the symbols when the peak of the tension has been built. Dramatic build up. I may have added a panel here or there, it was with the intention to add a beat where I felt it was lacking to create more of a rhythmic flow and changed some of the angles he called for to give it a more cinematic sensibility. I thought I did a great job keeping true to his script but also peppering in who I was as an artist. I got my first correspondence with Jim after the first issue saying other wise.
The letter was long. If you’ve ever read a script from Jim, (I’m sure editors are glad they don’t pay him by the word) he definitely packs it in. It was a laundry list of everything I had done wrong in the first issue. It was daunting. I was taken aback. I was disappointed that what I thought had been my best work to date (at that time), was just not good enough. A letter that long might have scared other artists away, but I shook it off, and decided to take it in stride. I was more hungrier than before to win Jim’s approval.
In the issues after that, I tried very hard to incorporate all the notes he had said. Even though some of them went against every natural inclination I had as a visual storyteller. Jim is from an oldschool way of telling stories and he wanted me to do a lot of medium, front on, full body shots. He even said it was a cheat to do close ups. I complied. I knew that telling stories this way was a bit lacking in drama and dynamics, but Jim had the experience who was I to say other wise. I carried on like this until near the end of my run. I wasn’t having any fun with the book at all. In my attempt to follow Jim’s script closely I ended up drawing shots that were boring, and lacked life and excitement. The pacing just felt clunky and off to me. There was no beat. When I heard that the book was coming to a close, I was determined to try and have fun. So in the last couple issues I drew, I let loose. I unbuttoned that top button and for the first time since the first issue I had fun. And then it was finally over.
Today I read an even more in depth write up on his experience on the Legion. I read every painstaking detail. I don’t blame him for them. A lot of it was really just lack of communication. Believe me I would have gladly allowed the letterer to fill out the Duty Roster instead of me drawing every head shot of the character. It was classic miscommunication. I thought the captions and descriptions on each character would go under their image. But I guess lettering missed that note too. The empty screens drove me me nuts as well. I would write notes on my pages for production to drop in the images from Jim’s script, but I think when the inks were handed in the notes had been taken off. It was quite problematic. (these days in a lot of my work, I find myself doing as much of it as I can by hand, lesson learned from this experience). As for the colors I wasn’t privy to them until the day before it was to go to press. Leaving little to no time at all to give any notes or any corrections. That’s if I was lucky, sometimes I wouldn’t see them until I got the book. There really was a breakdown in communication on the book which I think is the main culprit for these problems. I definitely feel for Jim on this. I know how frustrating it must be to have your intent misinterpreted, or overlooked.
Regarding his storytelling critiques, I guess it’s just creative differences. I’ve worked with many writers, who compliment me on my storytelling as much as the way it looks. I don’t think it’s by accident, that I’m now writing and drawing a book. I guess when we were first paired up, it was probably thought “traditional stories, visually told in a modern way”. I think that’s how it should have been. But that wasn’t the case. I didn’t mind changing for him, I really do feel that my job is to tell a story first. However I didn’t agree on his method, or his pacing. I was a circle trying to fit in a square.
I wish no ill will to Jim, and believe he has the right to say what he wants. I just thought I’d temper his voice with a bit of what the experience was like on the other side. And it definitely was quite an experience.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
See, I like that response. Manapul clearly has a difference of opinion with Shooter, and it explains it in a nice way without the general manufactured responses we get from creators all the time. It basically boiled down to an old meets new odd couple situation where neither got the desired results they were expecting, but that's the way it is sometimes in business. And because they both handled themselves rather well I place both their opinions in a more trustworthy light.
I remember that Shooter article when he left Legion and the way he said Manapul had talent but still needs some skills worked out (and it's true, I didn't see it as a backhanded compliment; you look at his Legion stuff then that two part Superman/Batman story and Manapul learned the right way to focus scenes in panels, which was always off in his Legion work). And yet I can see why Manapul was having trouble with Shooter wanting stuff that didn't "cheat" in terms of close ups and thought some of the covers were the best of the time, like #44's.
Looks like Kyle's origin is being tweaked. I don't mind the change of Ganthet talking to him for a bit after getting the ring just as long as the Hal/Parallax crazy stuff stays intact. Although I do rather like that Ganthet gave him the ring then just disappeared without explanation forcing Kyle to figure it out. But I guess with Alan Scott not existing (?) or something, they had to fill in how Kyle found out anything about the Corps, since in the original timeline Alan filled him in on everything.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Maybe Major Force got worked out of the origin too and all of his amazing fridge storage abilities, if Captain Atom seemingly has a new origin.
Teen Titans #1 preview. Bart seems to be both smart and dumb at the same time; if this is going to be the teen trio's first meeting I was hoping for more of the Waid approach where he doesn't really talk much but is still a hundred miles a minute tinkering with stuff. Tim is acting all Minority Report with the gloves and the video screen.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
Who is in the new Teen Titans, anyway? I'm thinking of picking up a team book, but I'm not sure which one to get.
Looks like Kyle's origin is being tweaked. I don't mind the change of Ganthet talking to him for a bit after getting the ring just as long as the Hal/Parallax crazy stuff stays intact. Although I do rather like that Ganthet gave him the ring then just disappeared without explanation forcing Kyle to figure it out. But I guess with Alan Scott not existing (?) or something, they had to fill in how Kyle found out anything about the Corps, since in the original timeline Alan filled him in on everything.
I liked his original origin better but I can't help but wonder now.
I actually love to see superhero couples just hang out and watch tv and stuff like that.
Just like how the best X-Men/Avengers/etc issues are whenever the gang go to see a movie or whatever.
Yeah, I love that kind of stuff. Seeing superheroes just kind of hang out, and do stuff unrelated to superheroing, is something that I think has been lost in this era of event-driven comics. That's one reason I'm actually really enjoying the new Daredevil.
Also, the Comic Twartists have done some New 52-inspired art. McDaid's OMAC is my favorite, but Shaner's Captain Marvel, and Fowler's Kamandi, are quite cool, too.
Doctor DetroitNot a doctorTree townRegistered Userregular
I can just see DC..."Sure, our most popular character is engaged in a weird S&M type relationship with one of his enemies, and yeah, we took a character from a popular kids show and turned her into a living, breathing sex doll...but we undid Green Lantern's girlfriend's death. No, not that Green Lantern. Or that one. Or the one with the 3 Stooges haircut. Yeah, the one who wears the crab on his face. That one. His girlfriend never got killed and shoved in a refrigerator. Yay us."
Looks like Kyle's origin is being tweaked. I don't mind the change of Ganthet talking to him for a bit after getting the ring just as long as the Hal/Parallax crazy stuff stays intact. Although I do rather like that Ganthet gave him the ring then just disappeared without explanation forcing Kyle to figure it out. But I guess with Alan Scott not existing (?) or something, they had to fill in how Kyle found out anything about the Corps, since in the original timeline Alan filled him in on everything.
I liked his original origin better but I can't help but wonder now.
Does this possibly mean that Alex is alive?
I doubt it. If anything it was done to streamline Kyle's Corps connection without Alan Scott's presence. For all we know Ganthet gave him those four panels worth of training and disappeared, letting events play out as we know them (just with no Alan Scott).
I don't see why they would remove Major Force or Alex's death, unless it was to remove the refrigerator thing. But even then, the damage was done nearly two decades ago. Not worth retconning.
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Doctor DetroitNot a doctorTree townRegistered Userregular
[snip]
I don't see why they would remove Major Force or Alex's death, unless it was to remove the refrigerator thing. But even then, the damage was done nearly two decades ago. Not worth retconning.
Jason Todd was a major character in the Batman frachise and a Robin? Alex was a supporting character for about 5 issues specifically created to die and prop up the main hero. Pretty different.
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Doctor DetroitNot a doctorTree townRegistered Userregular
JT was dead for 2+ decades, and I didn't think anyone was all that upset he was gone? Was there anyone who ever said, "Jason Todd was my favorite Robin"?
As an aside, I picked up Batman 1 (thought it was great), but had to laugh at the promo for Red Hood & the Outlaws in the back. There was a mention of JT moving on and not being so focused on the past now. Except for the big red bat on his chest, I guess.
I actually love to see superhero couples just hang out and watch tv and stuff like that.
Just like how the best X-Men/Avengers/etc issues are whenever the gang go to see a movie or whatever.
Yeah, I love that kind of stuff. Seeing superheroes just kind of hang out, and do stuff unrelated to superheroing, is something that I think has been lost in this era of event-driven comics. That's one reason I'm actually really enjoying the new Daredevil.
Also, the Comic Twartists have done some New 52-inspired art. McDaid's OMAC is my favorite, but Shaner's Captain Marvel, and Fowler's Kamandi, are quite cool, too.
Yeah Waid's Daredevil is great for how it shows him and Foggy chilling together and being buddies.
One of the things I did like about Red Hood was the fact that the whole "moving on" thing was so downplayed. Roy mentions the Batmobile, but Jason just shrugs it off. He doesn't make a big deal about being on his own or whatever.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
hmm. with teen titans seeming kinda eh, I'm almost inclined to pick up Action Comics and JLA and see if I can get into Superman for the first time.
The problem is that Winick's writing is completely one-dimensional, and the dimension he's chosen is SEX. Female comic characters can be sexual, but they can't be only sexual.
And that's the problem with most of the complaints: that this isn't a true statement at all. Catwoman was NOT written as only sexual. There was lots of fanservice, but the character wasn't written as just a sexpot.
I'm in the minority, I know, but Aquaman looks so bad to me. I think it's hilarious that he says next to nothing in the entire preview. I wish Johns would write him as a mute, basically DC's answer to Black Bolt.
Aquman looks pretty great. I like that Johns is taking all the criticism Aquaman gets and still show's him as a badass. I think this will be a pretty great series
The problem is that Winick's writing is completely one-dimensional, and the dimension he's chosen is SEX. Female comic characters can be sexual, but they can't be only sexual.
And that's the problem with most of the complaints: that this isn't a true statement at all. Catwoman was NOT written as only sexual. There was lots of fanservice, but the character wasn't written as just a sexpot.
That's what really bugged me about Catwoman #1. It was a really good read, and if the fanservice had been toned down a bit nobody would be really talking about it in the same breath as Red Hood. But 15/20 pages of cheesecake and the unfortunate timing of being the same week as the much more controversial Red Hood really just magnified what shouldn't have been an issue.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
"Is this new Starfire someone you'd want to be when you grow up?"
*she gets uncomfortable again*"Not really. I mean, grown ups can wear what they want, but…she's not doing anything but wearing a tiny bikini to get attention."
"So, you know I'm going to put this on my blog right? (she nods) Is there anything else you want to say?"
"I want her to be a hero, fighting things and be strong and helping people."
I'm still confused as to why DC doesn't push its Teen Titans all-ages books harder. Seriously, why haven't DC and Marvel pursued a relationship with Scholastic to publish their kid friendly books?
"Is this new Starfire someone you'd want to be when you grow up?"
*she gets uncomfortable again*"Not really. I mean, grown ups can wear what they want, but…she's not doing anything but wearing a tiny bikini to get attention."
"So, you know I'm going to put this on my blog right? (she nods) Is there anything else you want to say?"
"I want her to be a hero, fighting things and be strong and helping people."
"Why's that?"
"Because she's what inspires me to be good."
Way to bring in those new readers!
The bolded part right there, that got to me, no lie. My parents used to give me the craziest looks when I told them that I've learned more about responsibility and morals from reading Captain America and Batman than any story in the Bible.
I'll admit, I've really been trying to convince myself to give Red hood and the Outlaws a pass because I love Jason Todd's character so much, but reading articles like the one in the link makes it too hard to overlook. The "it" being a depiction of a character that alienates all her fans and former readers. It's practically a betrayal on the part of DC to do such a thing, but that's a bit extreme of a charge to level at them. As much as I love the Red Hood (fantastic in Morrison's run on Batman and Robin), I don't think I can support this book with my money until they make drastic changes to their Starfire character.
This overabundance of cheesecake in the New 52 is going to make me a diabetic. I'd let it go but for the fact that they are using it as a marketing ploy to keep the rush job of putting out all these books from falling apart.
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
The bolded part right there, that got to me, no lie. My parents used to give me the craziest looks when I told them that I've learned more about responsibility and morals from reading Captain America and Batman than any story in the Bible.
I told my parents something similar about Superman growing up as a way to get out of going to Church, that I was being taught good things on a much more frequent basis so it was redundant. And then he goes and becomes a punk socialist after I stuck my neck out for him, go protest at Wall Street :rotate:
In other news, bat edirot Janelle Asselin left DC to go work at Disney. She looked over a few of Snyder's Detective issues, but also seemed to let Daniel's Batman and Finch's Dark Knight become what they became.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
witch hunter, you really liked morrison's version of hood? i couldn't stand him after seeing how good he was in under the hood, it just didn't fit.
Posts
I have selfish reasons. My favorite character to write about right now, the one in my profile pic/avatar, is one of the most powerful people in the entire universe. However, she is almost exclusively known for and has been notorious for 15 years for the fact that the most character development (and I use that term loosely) she ever got was in a series of sex scenes in the tie-in novels. I don't care that it happened. I do care that it's most of what was written about her, and like basically all written erotica it was just bad.
Fictional sex scenes just strike me as gratuitous, and poisonous, and wasteful, and useless. I don't get why anyone wants to read it or write it. I just don't see the value in it, and most of it is just awful anyway, and it's certainly not what I want when I want to be stimulated.
I have nothing to say about Starfire. It's just not worth thinking about.
I didn't find Catwoman gratuitous at all.
http://francismanapul.tumblr.com/post/10684621178/mr-shooter-and-the-legion-of-super-heroes
I remember that Shooter article when he left Legion and the way he said Manapul had talent but still needs some skills worked out (and it's true, I didn't see it as a backhanded compliment; you look at his Legion stuff then that two part Superman/Batman story and Manapul learned the right way to focus scenes in panels, which was always off in his Legion work). And yet I can see why Manapul was having trouble with Shooter wanting stuff that didn't "cheat" in terms of close ups and thought some of the covers were the best of the time, like #44's.
Looks like Kyle's origin is being tweaked. I don't mind the change of Ganthet talking to him for a bit after getting the ring just as long as the Hal/Parallax crazy stuff stays intact. Although I do rather like that Ganthet gave him the ring then just disappeared without explanation forcing Kyle to figure it out. But I guess with Alan Scott not existing (?) or something, they had to fill in how Kyle found out anything about the Corps, since in the original timeline Alan filled him in on everything.
Teen Titans #1 preview. Bart seems to be both smart and dumb at the same time; if this is going to be the teen trio's first meeting I was hoping for more of the Waid approach where he doesn't really talk much but is still a hundred miles a minute tinkering with stuff. Tim is acting all Minority Report with the gloves and the video screen.
Bugg is apparently a villain or something at first, as is Superboy. We don't know anything about Charcoal Girl.
I fuckin' love Phil Noto.
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Just like how the best X-Men/Avengers/etc issues are whenever the gang go to see a movie or whatever
I liked his original origin better but I can't help but wonder now.
Does this possibly mean that Alex is alive?
Yeah, I love that kind of stuff. Seeing superheroes just kind of hang out, and do stuff unrelated to superheroing, is something that I think has been lost in this era of event-driven comics. That's one reason I'm actually really enjoying the new Daredevil.
Also, the Comic Twartists have done some New 52-inspired art. McDaid's OMAC is my favorite, but Shaner's Captain Marvel, and Fowler's Kamandi, are quite cool, too.
Tumblr Twitter
I doubt it. If anything it was done to streamline Kyle's Corps connection without Alan Scott's presence. For all we know Ganthet gave him those four panels worth of training and disappeared, letting events play out as we know them (just with no Alan Scott).
I don't see why they would remove Major Force or Alex's death, unless it was to remove the refrigerator thing. But even then, the damage was done nearly two decades ago. Not worth retconning.
Jason Todd says, "Hi."
As an aside, I picked up Batman 1 (thought it was great), but had to laugh at the promo for Red Hood & the Outlaws in the back. There was a mention of JT moving on and not being so focused on the past now. Except for the big red bat on his chest, I guess.
so
Yeah Waid's Daredevil is great for how it shows him and Foggy chilling together and being buddies.
Why does it have to be so hard to choose.
And that's the problem with most of the complaints: that this isn't a true statement at all. Catwoman was NOT written as only sexual. There was lots of fanservice, but the character wasn't written as just a sexpot.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
That really looks like a terrible Twilight ripoff to me.
I know, I'm really hoping that it's not. I feel bad about assuming that any kind of modernized vampire fiction is going to be like that, though.
At the very least, the art looks fine.
I was hoping otherwise but the first two spreads are relationship angst and the last relationship angst except the dude vampire is shirtless.
How's JL Dark? That's the only DC book I plan on getting this week.
That's what really bugged me about Catwoman #1. It was a really good read, and if the fanservice had been toned down a bit nobody would be really talking about it in the same breath as Red Hood. But 15/20 pages of cheesecake and the unfortunate timing of being the same week as the much more controversial Red Hood really just magnified what shouldn't have been an issue.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I am pretty safely betting on 3-4 of tomorrows adding to the keep list (Flash, Aquaman, JLDark, and Teen Titans).
http://io9.com/5844355/a-7+year+old-girl-responds-to-dc-comics-sexed+up-reboot-of-starfire
Way to bring in those new readers!
The bolded part right there, that got to me, no lie. My parents used to give me the craziest looks when I told them that I've learned more about responsibility and morals from reading Captain America and Batman than any story in the Bible.
I'll admit, I've really been trying to convince myself to give Red hood and the Outlaws a pass because I love Jason Todd's character so much, but reading articles like the one in the link makes it too hard to overlook. The "it" being a depiction of a character that alienates all her fans and former readers. It's practically a betrayal on the part of DC to do such a thing, but that's a bit extreme of a charge to level at them. As much as I love the Red Hood (fantastic in Morrison's run on Batman and Robin), I don't think I can support this book with my money until they make drastic changes to their Starfire character.
This overabundance of cheesecake in the New 52 is going to make me a diabetic. I'd let it go but for the fact that they are using it as a marketing ploy to keep the rush job of putting out all these books from falling apart.
I told my parents something similar about Superman growing up as a way to get out of going to Church, that I was being taught good things on a much more frequent basis so it was redundant. And then he goes and becomes a punk socialist after I stuck my neck out for him, go protest at Wall Street :rotate:
In other news, bat edirot Janelle Asselin left DC to go work at Disney. She looked over a few of Snyder's Detective issues, but also seemed to let Daniel's Batman and Finch's Dark Knight become what they became.