If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
except that banelings have a purpose, just like the scourge did, another "sappling" unit.
they are a unit that you're going to throw away. They're also the only early game unit that can take care of massive amounts of marines, zealots, AND put holes in the ubuiquitous wall-in that both P and T do every game. Their utility holds through out the game...
and if you're actually sitting on 5-6 bases, chances are, you've got the game won. It's far more difficult to get the gas needed on 3-4 which is the more likely spot that you will be at when you need them.
As opposed to Terran who can sit on one base and make a massive amount of marines, a half dozen tanks and a bunch (> 10 vikings) and the zerg has no answer.
There is just...so much wrong with this post.
Please expand, I'm interested. If you're nice, I'll post replays of what I'm talking about when I get home.
A 5 or 6 base Zerg doesn't necessarily equate to a win, not even close. It is very much possible to get the gas needed on 4 bases, even 3 though of course that will take longer/you will have less units. A Terran on one base is not a threat to anything or anyone who is at least partially competent (past early game all-ins). And the Zerg absolutely have an answer to marine/tank/viking. Zergling/infestor/corruptor/broodlord does well against the composition assuming good infestor control to fungal vikings. Zerg have gotten so good at it that ghosts are essentially required to beat that composition these days.
And no need to post replays, Joe, I've watched a lot of high level TvZs in the past month.
A 5 or 6 base Zerg doesn't necessarily equate to a win, not even close. It is very much possible to get the gas needed on 4 bases, even 3 though of course that will take longer/you will have less units. A Terran on one base is not a threat to anything or anyone who is at least partially competent (past early game all-ins). And the Zerg absolutely have an answer to marine/tank/viking. Zergling/infestor/corruptor/broodlord does well against the composition assuming good infestor control to fungal vikings. Zerg have gotten so good at it that ghosts are essentially required to beat that composition these days.
And no need to post replays, Joe, I've watched a lot of high level TvZs in the past month.
it also sounds like the Z army is kept together. That hasnt been what I was doing, I was moving (around 10) corruptors into a siege position and transforming a portion of them, and then having the "mass" (10-12) of vikings pick off the corruptors as well as the bros. After that happened, It was open season on OL hunting. So, I do see your point, that if I keep the zerg units all bunched up, that they can battle that comp with good infestor micro.
It felt like complete bullshit when it happened to me, still seems a bit wrong as the right answer would be to hide the OLs behind Spores and queens, and go ground. Not sure what would happen if banshees started popping out...
So how much more awesome are Immortals now? I haven't played in months (though I watch a couple games a week) and seeing a buff to my favorite unit has encouraged me to play a bit.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
I'd use those vikings to tank the shit out of the ultras and then we'd all remember why ultras suck
B.net: Kusanku
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
not so much the thors, all though they help, its the massive amount of vikings that you can produce upon sniffing a spire being out, and which counter everything Zerg in the air cost effectively.
if Z commits to maintaining air superiority, a couple of tanks and marines clean up the paltry ground army left over.
as for the Browder quote, I'm looking for it, and I thought that it was originally provide by Ked.
we were talking about mass thors, that's the context of my quote there.
and I'd like a link instead of "oh he said something like fuck zerg"
I don't see how mutas prompt vikings. Vikings aren't very good vs mutas and ghosts are actually amazing vs them. But more often than not it'll nudge the terran into thors.
It usually prompts Vikings because, while thors are great at killing muta balls, they're fairly immobile, not quite as slow as broods, and mutas can harass where the thors arent with impunity.
You do not make Vikings to fight Mutas. I don't why you would think that.
Kambing said it best. Force Vikings -> Roll with 3/5 Ultras. Easy Peasy.
and I'd like a link instead of "oh he said something like fuck zerg"
I'm looking for ya, and let you know when I found it. There have been numerous quizzicaldog.jpg statements from browder when it comes to balance, I'll see if i can spend some time and find them.
A 5 or 6 base Zerg doesn't necessarily equate to a win, not even close. It is very much possible to get the gas needed on 4 bases, even 3 though of course that will take longer/you will have less units. A Terran on one base is not a threat to anything or anyone who is at least partially competent (past early game all-ins). And the Zerg absolutely have an answer to marine/tank/viking. Zergling/infestor/corruptor/broodlord does well against the composition assuming good infestor control to fungal vikings. Zerg have gotten so good at it that ghosts are essentially required to beat that composition these days.
And no need to post replays, Joe, I've watched a lot of high level TvZs in the past month.
it also sounds like the Z army is kept together. That hasnt been what I was doing, I was moving (around 10) corruptors into a siege position and transforming a portion of them, and then having the "mass" (10-12) of vikings pick off the corruptors as well as the bros. After that happened, It was open season on OL hunting. So, I do see your point, that if I keep the zerg units all bunched up, that they can battle that comp with good infestor micro.
It felt like complete bullshit when it happened to me, still seems a bit wrong as the right answer would be to hide the OLs behind Spores and queens, and go ground. Not sure what would happen if banshees started popping out...
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank. And yes, absolutely, your army should always be with the broodlords. Never send them off by themselves.
So how much more awesome are Immortals now? I haven't played in months (though I watch a couple games a week) and seeing a buff to my favorite unit has encouraged me to play a bit.
so awesome
0
mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
edited September 2011
I posted a year ago that immortals should match marauders in range, was pretty sad that I could just kite and kill this thing that should be so terrifying
and i like seeker missiles, maybe they can catch up to a few choice units now
Today, compLexity and Millenium are pleased to announce that the Stephano situation has come to an end. Complexity and Millenium have agreed to a settlement, in which a significant fine will be paid by Stephano in consideration of his role in creating the situation, and all parties now consider the matter closed.
Thank god.
0
mysticjuicer[he/him] I'm a muscle wizardand I cast P U N C HRegistered Userregular
Today, compLexity and Millenium are pleased to announce that the Stephano situation has come to an end. Complexity and Millenium have agreed to a settlement, in which a significant fine will be paid by Stephano in consideration of his role in creating the situation, and all parties now consider the matter closed.
Thank god.
Also one of the EG peeps apparently helped arbitrate.
If you're mech, you're going to counter broods with vikings. But if you wipe the map clean of Brood Lords with your Vikings and you still have 30 food of vikings (you wouldn't get that much in the first place, but whatever) you've just won the game. Your vikings go on harass and your army goes in for the kill, no zerg unit is going to come out fast enough.
Incidentally 3/3 zerglings can be made in time, they do pretty well vs vikings that try and do anything but kill overlords.
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank.
Except oh hey they have three ghosts so now all your Infestors have no energy and your broodlords are dead, GG
If you're mech, you're going to counter broods with vikings. But if you wipe the map clean of Brood Lords with your Vikings and you still have 30 food of vikings (you wouldn't get that much in the first place, but whatever) you've just won the game. Your vikings go on harass and your army goes in for the kill, no zerg unit is going to come out fast enough.
Incidentally 3/3 zerglings can be made in time, they do pretty well vs vikings that try and do anything but kill overlords.
Yeah... uh since it's mech there's going to be a shitload of hellions. Zerglings aren't going to do shit against a mech Terran who just established air control.
But I admit they are pretty good at helping against any kind of drop harass because of their speed, whether it's vikings landing or marines dropping. Still, the vikings can just pick their shit up and fly away.
Hoz on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank.
Except oh hey they have three ghosts so now all your Infestors have no energy and your broodlords are dead, GG
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank.
Except oh hey they have three ghosts so now all your Infestors have no energy and your broodlords are dead, GG
what did you make, one infestor?
spread your shit. ghosts are great but 3?
Vikings dying to fungal? Spread your shit
Marines dying to banelings/fungal? Spread your shit
There you go, it's that easy! Now you can never lose!
TannerMS on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Hmm, I'm definitely getting better at doing a 4 rax expand. Wonder how long it's going to work for me.
in what matchup? 4rax expand with gas and marauders, or no addons and just marines?
Because 4rax expand sounds like a terrible build. I don't think you could even call it an expand build. There is no way you can make an early command centre and fully produce out of four barracks unless you leave your barracks sitting idle for long periods of time or delay the command centre by so much that its not even useful.
Unless, of course, you're referring to throwing down just one barracks, then a command centre, then three more barracks, which is actually a pretty good build.
Posts
A 5 or 6 base Zerg doesn't necessarily equate to a win, not even close. It is very much possible to get the gas needed on 4 bases, even 3 though of course that will take longer/you will have less units. A Terran on one base is not a threat to anything or anyone who is at least partially competent (past early game all-ins). And the Zerg absolutely have an answer to marine/tank/viking. Zergling/infestor/corruptor/broodlord does well against the composition assuming good infestor control to fungal vikings. Zerg have gotten so good at it that ghosts are essentially required to beat that composition these days.
And no need to post replays, Joe, I've watched a lot of high level TvZs in the past month.
it also sounds like the Z army is kept together. That hasnt been what I was doing, I was moving (around 10) corruptors into a siege position and transforming a portion of them, and then having the "mass" (10-12) of vikings pick off the corruptors as well as the bros. After that happened, It was open season on OL hunting. So, I do see your point, that if I keep the zerg units all bunched up, that they can battle that comp with good infestor micro.
It felt like complete bullshit when it happened to me, still seems a bit wrong as the right answer would be to hide the OLs behind Spores and queens, and go ground. Not sure what would happen if banshees started popping out...
Joe's Stream.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-and-raleigh-starcraft-2-replays-released/
I'd use those vikings to tank the shit out of the ultras and then we'd all remember why ultras suck
B.net: Kusanku
we were talking about mass thors, that's the context of my quote there.
and I'd like a link instead of "oh he said something like fuck zerg"
I roll vikings.
And I want my corners.
I'm looking for ya, and let you know when I found it. There have been numerous quizzicaldog.jpg statements from browder when it comes to balance, I'll see if i can spend some time and find them.
Joe's Stream.
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank. And yes, absolutely, your army should always be with the broodlords. Never send them off by themselves.
All I do is stim stim stim no matter what.
Also found myself just playing pretty well mechanically, I feel like I'm really starting to improve now.
WB!
welcome back scrub!
knew it couldn't be much longer.
so awesome
and i like seeker missiles, maybe they can catch up to a few choice units now
Thank god.
Also one of the EG peeps apparently helped arbitrate.
<insert rage here>
SDFJSDFO#W*RUYW(*#REU#QW(EDWQdadasdsdfijsdofit340rtu24309rjdfwefsdf
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Incidentally 3/3 zerglings can be made in time, they do pretty well vs vikings that try and do anything but kill overlords.
Except oh hey they have three ghosts so now all your Infestors have no energy and your broodlords are dead, GG
"Naniwa Decides to Stay on Dignitas; Accuses Complexity of Disorienting Him With Loud Noises"
no marauders have always been range 6, marines are range 5.
But I admit they are pretty good at helping against any kind of drop harass because of their speed, whether it's vikings landing or marines dropping. Still, the vikings can just pick their shit up and fly away.
what did you make, one infestor?
spread your shit. ghosts are great but 3?
Vikings dying to fungal? Spread your shit
Marines dying to banelings/fungal? Spread your shit
There you go, it's that easy! Now you can never lose!
in what matchup? 4rax expand with gas and marauders, or no addons and just marines?
Because 4rax expand sounds like a terrible build. I don't think you could even call it an expand build. There is no way you can make an early command centre and fully produce out of four barracks unless you leave your barracks sitting idle for long periods of time or delay the command centre by so much that its not even useful.
Unless, of course, you're referring to throwing down just one barracks, then a command centre, then three more barracks, which is actually a pretty good build.