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Questions, Discussion, Tutorials

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Posts

  • F87F87 So Say We All Registered User regular
    Nice, thank you.

  • m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    @F87 post it in your thread! Explain everything you've got going on in your head, show off some characters, story etc. and let's see where you're at.

    m3nace on
    F87
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    Oh yeah....advice I never follow stupidly. Ever comic artist I have seen has basically said... "the best way to make comics...is to make comics" basically getting it down in some form it basically the most important thing. There are so many styles of comics and ways to produce them that you pretty much need to just work on them and tweak them until it feels right. Penny arcade is a good example of someone who just did it. Go look at the early stuff..it's rough....but it's there. And over the years he has adapted his style to what works and what doesnt.
    If you're talking about traditional comics, the same applies. There are many way to get started. If you're writing and drawing the best thing I can suggest is to get the script done first. Even with the script there is no set standard on how to do this. Some writers will literally set up a panel by panel script..
    4 panel page... panel one1/4 page, horizontal shot showing a dark parked structure. (narration) "This is where it happened. The police say there was no evidence to be found"

    Panel 2/3... 1/4 page directly under panel 1. panel 2/3 together are the same size as panel 1 panel 2 (full body shot) a man in a long coat his face mostly in shadow walks past police line tape into the garage. Panel 3 tighter shot, waist up of the man...face still in shadow shining a flashlight towards the camera (narration) "Iruka has half the cops in this city on her payroll. I think I'll check it out for myself."

    Panel 4 1/2 page
    The man's light shines on the crime scene. There's a trash can in the corner overflowing with trash. On the ground there is a stain of dried blood And a faded chalk outline. Make sure that somewhere in the trash is a rose that is sticking out.



    Ok....so that's a terrible and generic scene....but that hiw some writes will detail out the script. Others will say
    Page 1
    Batman crashes through a window and punches a henchman I'm the face while taking out 2 more with batarangs. And it's up to the artist to do it in as many panels as he feels it needs. Some artists will do that as a single splash page while others could break that into 9 panels.




    So basically get your story down. And if you work better having shot by shot laid out, write out your script that way. Or you can just make sure the key elements are there and make sure you leave room for the dialogue.


    I have a number of books on the subject. When I'm home I'll send you the titles.



    I hope this help at least a little??

    F87
  • m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Most people in my education never really do scripts unless we're penciling each other's stories since it's just so much of a hassle. David Hine also told us that he hated writing scripts and would wish his artists would just accept his offer of doing thumbnails for them, which I thought was at once both hilarious but also totally true.
    My method of scripting essentially boils down to making bullet points that contain caption text and dialogue and a quick note to myself of what's going on. Say, here's what the script for one of the pages of my ninja comic looks like:
    4
    • “Not even the automatic light sensors in the bathrooms seem to notice me.” - lightless lightbulb
    • Pee splashing into toilet
    • Pee stream dying out
    • Zipping up
    • Close up of hands washing.
    • “I am that good.” lightless lightbulb
    But yea, do what's best for you. I find that working quickly and without too much detail like this helps me retain the excitement I had about the project at the beginning since I will at no point become a slave to the person I was at the beginning, in that I still have a lot of room to be creative when it comes to the art work. Meanwhile I can also quickly get a good overview of the beat and rhythm of the story, since I don't have to read a long paragraph to understand what's going on in the panel, but just a few sentences.

    m3nace on
    NakedZergling
  • Red_CatRed_Cat MaineRegistered User new member
    So I have a question, what sort of stylus people are using/recommend? I am just starting out playing around with drawing on my tablet (I have an Ipad) and my thought is to get a decent pen and app to start with then look at upgrading my tablet later. Money is an issue but if it means spending say $20 more to get a much better stylus I am willing to put the cash into it. Suggestions?

  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    I've had no good experiences with any ipad stylus. Android and windows devices have better options, but not Apple.

    NakedZergling
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2015
    I've used the jot pro and found it pretty effective, though the plastic tip is a bit ridiculous. I bought that like two years ago though, so there must be something better out by now - have Wacom come out with anything properly pressure sensitive? Worth checking.

    Fake edit: these guys think the jot is still the way to go
    http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-ipad-stylus/

    I can confirm you get good sensitivity and a nice stroke, particularly in painterly apps like procreate.

    tynic on
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    But it you have a laptop or desktop and are looking to upgrade in any case, I'd save your cash and put it towards a small intuos. It's a much better drawing experience than any tablet can (yet) provide.

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    Yeah, I got the latest-and-greatest Wacom ipad stylus and I wasn't very impressed, but I'm used to Cintiqs.

    Someone asked about the differences before, I'll repost my impressions below:
    Sooooo, I know Mustang was hoping to get a sense of how this kinda thing stacks up to a Cintiq, but it looks like it might be awhile before I can fill you in completely.

    The only thing I can glean so far is that if the precision is always going to be the same as what I was getting from the Wacom app, a Cintiq is definitely an immediately appreciable leap forward on that front. There's a similar-but-different kind of disconnect when it comes to precision with the iPad and a regular Intuos tablet on PC, in that you're never quite 100% sure where your strokes are going to end up- but on the iPad it's more down to the hardware not really being built to do that, and on the Intous is more down to your own mental ability to translate tablet space into monitor space with accuracy (if that makes sense). With a Cintiq, the accuracy isn't perfect, but the hardware is good enough that it feels more like most of the time if you get a stroke wrong it's on you- your hand slipped, your head was in a different spot when drawing than when you calibrated it, etc.- rather than on the hardware.

    Once the apps get up to speed I think the iPad will make for a decent little painting sketchbook, but I think for straight-up drawing I'll stick with pencils and paper, just because that precision doesn't seem to be quite there yet. (And I struggle enough with drawing accurately already, with my sloppy-ass butterhands.)
    Maybe a process of doing a sketch in pencil, taking a photo of it with the iPad and painting it from there might be an interesting way to try to have it both ways- I'll have to try to experiment a bit.

    Mustang‌
    Ok, so ProCreate updated today, and the stylus works (although it says unsupported, the only thing that doesn't seem to work is the palm rest thing?), so I guess I can update on this.

    My initial impression just doodling with it (I just dicked around with it for a couple minutes so it's not an extensive review) is pretty much the same as I said before- a Cintiq is a lot more precise, and the iPad does weird things (ie: it's hard to do close together parallel lines without having them just draw on top of each other instead, drawing small circles tends to turn them into more square-ish shapes, there tends to be a lot of offset between the pen tip and where the line actually gets drawn). The pen pressure and the pen itself is nice, but it just doesn't solve all the issues.

    Still is probably decent enough for impressionistic painting, or if you have the patience to zoom way in so you've got more sensors to even things out to workaround the aforementioned issues- but if I wanted to do some more work on the go I might opt for a laptop with a standard Intuos plugged into it, or possibly a Surface Pro instead (haven't had a chance to use one of them myself so I don't know how they stack up in comparison). Or I could save up the cash for one of the standalone Cintiqs, if I were in the market for a new laptop anyway.

    If you're looking at getting a Cintiq though, it's probably worth trying one out first to see if you think it's worth the price tag (partly because I'd feel like a heel if you sprung for one just on my word and it didn't live up to your lofty expectations- they're great, but it's not like it's like a non-stop orgasm rainbow or some shit)...but to be honest I have no idea where you'd go to do that unless you've already got a job where people use them (or know someone who does), as it's a pretty specialized piece of equipment. Sneak into an art college one night maybe? Buy one from a place with a liberal no-questions asked refund policy?

  • ElaroElaro Threadkiller, Harbinger of the Lock GodsRegistered User regular
    Dear webcomics drawing thread,

    I don't know if this has been discussed recently, but what is a good image editing/drawing application for windows that's not too expensive? And what are recommendations for what parameters I should start out with, like canvas size in pixels, dpi, brush type, etc.? I'm thinking of working wholly digitally.

    Can you also recommend resources for working wholly digitally?

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... And flattery will get you nowhere.
  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    @NakedZergling Squarespace actually does give you a domain free with your first year if you buy the annual. (I did, and also used a coupon from a podcast so the whole kit n caboodle came out to about $86.) It's actually more annoying to try to use an offsite domain (my other domains are on Hover and I haven't had the energy to dedicate them somewhere else after trying a couple of times to point them to my Squarespace.)

  • Panic ButtonPanic Button Robo-cannibal Registered User regular
    I have a bit of a problem with Manga Studio 5, and I'm hoping someone here knows what the deal is. The pen lines up perfectly and is calibrated, etc., but when I go to draw on the canvas with it, the cursor is off by a few inches. Bear in mind that this doesn't happen with any other drawing application, and the cursor is perfectly correct when I'm clicking through menus. It's just the canvas that throws it off. I'm terribly confused.

    Drawings and short stories: sketchatron.tumblr.com
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    canvas size in pixels, dpi, brush type, etc.? I'm thinking of working wholly digitally.

    Can you also recommend resources for working wholly digitally?

    These things will depend on what your end goal is. What do you plan on doing?

  • ElaroElaro Threadkiller, Harbinger of the Lock GodsRegistered User regular
    I was thinking of doing a graphic novel... But I'm still getting the hang of drawing on a graphics tablet.

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... And flattery will get you nowhere.
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    If you are planning on printing - or ever think you might be- then it's worth considering page size and print resolution from the get go. Normal print resolution is at least 300dpi (some printers recommend 600dpi). Colour space is also important but at this stage I'm not sure if you should worry about that too much ...

    Beyond that, most program settings are up to personal preference. Best thing to do is start up a thread to post your progress in, then people can advise on specific questions that turn up as you go along.

  • diemeatbagdiemeatbag Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    How do I know if a picture is good enough for a portfolio to apply to an atelier program?

    And should they only be life drawings? Is copying somebody else's drawing frowned upon?

    diemeatbag on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    diemeatbag wrote: »
    How do I know if a picture is good enough for a portfolio to apply to an atelier program?

    And should they only be life drawings? Is copying somebody else's drawing frowned upon?

    Probably would make the most sense to call up/email whoever runs the program/a teacher there and ask them directly, since they would actually know?

    It's not like there's a standardized test for atelier admission, the one I went to (Watts), the only thing you needed was the ability to pay for the classes.

  • diemeatbagdiemeatbag Registered User regular
    yeah I'm waiting for an email back but I just want to send it in as soon as possible because it's rolling admissions. I just settled on doing big realistic drawings.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited April 2015
    ~Snips~

    For some reason I was back a few pages, strange.

    Enc on
  • BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Sorry to ask, but does anyone know of a program, preferably free and if possible online, to record an online piano?

  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    Audacity would be my first guess. Depends on your setup though.

    tynic
  • BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Audacity would be my first guess. Depends on your setup though.

    Thanks! It is working well at getting the audio.

  • Tidus53Tidus53 Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    wish i could delete these

    Tidus53 on
  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    Hi,

    Does anyone have a suggestion on how to sharpen a pencil to a long tip suitable for drawing without using a knife? It's not possible for me to both hold the pencil and the knife at the same time because I can only use one hand 100% effectively. I tried the Kum long point pencil sharpener but the tip isn't long enough and it is shaving the lead on the thicker pencils.

    Cheers

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    @danx: I'm a little confused- are you trying to sharpen a normal graphite pencil to a longer tip, or a charcoal pencil like this: http://bacon.iseenothing.com/Watts/WattsPencil.jpg

    If it's the former, you might consider a lead holder pencil (to show off pointiness: http://bacon.iseenothing.com/info/leadholder.jpg), where you can some really pointy points with a lead pointer , or you might try a woodless graphite pencil, which should work in a regular pencil sharpener= or you could use a sanding block to sharpen it further.

    If it's the latter, that's a difficult situation- maybe hold the pencil in a vice instead of using your hand while sharpening? Sanding blocks are useful for sharpening the tips as well, but I'm not sure what the best option for getting the wood off would be in this situation.


  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    It's for sharpening a pencil as linked in the image. At the moment I just have graphite pencils. I haven't purchased pencils like conte blacks since I'm just starting out and haven't found a great way to deal with sharpening it.

    Think i'll pick up a clutch pencil with a sanding block to shape the tip. Hadn't considered those. Thanks.

    danx on
  • kevindeekevindee Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I'm still somewhat confused. If you're trying to sharpen a graphite pencil to a tapered point like the charcoal pencil bacon linked, you might want to consider to what end it would be. You sharpen the charcoal like that because it lets you work in a mass drawing approach, with the charcoal handling more like a brush than a linear instrument. As far as my experience goes, graphite doesn't really respond well to being sharpened on a long tip and used like charcoal. You can't get the deep values easily, there's the unavoidable shimmer of the graphite crystals overlaying, and it just feels like you get less out of it than when it is used linearly.

    If you were talking about a charcoal pencil, then just buy a bag of single edged razor blades and a sanding pad. That's about all you need, really.

    For pencilling stuff with a big gestural approach, I could recommend prismacolor blacks or faber castell polychromos. They have a thicker lead, work nicely with an unsharpened, fat tip, and go to full black. A lot of people use them for their value sketches or environment compositions.

    kevindee on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    kevindee wrote: »
    If you were talking about a charcoal pencil, then just buy a bag of single edged razor blades and a sanding pad. That's about all you need, really.

    @kevindee As stated, the problem is figuring out how to use a razor or knife when they only have the effective use of one hand.
    In theory they could put the pencil in vice while he sharpens it, but that means there's not going to be any sensitivity to judge how much pressure to apply when carving- it's a frustrating experience even with two hands.

    @danx Another option you might try is using vine charcoal sharpened with a sanding pad. It's going to be a bit messier to work with than a charcoal pencil, and you'll have to sharpen it more frequently, but you'll get a wider value range and not have to deal with a razor/knife.

  • kevindeekevindee Registered User regular
    Oh, that's my bad, I skimmed completely past that. Sorry, @danx.

    In that case, I would recommend General's Peel 'n Sketch charcoal pencils (http://www.dickblick.com/products/generals-peel-and-sketch-charcoal-set/). Pulling the cord and peeling off the paper will reveal charcoal however far back you want. The entire pencil is basically just a charcoal rod encased in paper. After that, all that's left is sanding it to a taper.

    As bacon said, vine is also an option. I avoid it since I end up wearing more of it than I get on the page, but a lot of artists use it to great effect.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    This got posted to Kotaku today:
    http://kotaku.com/how-to-draw-detailed-buildings-1699399560#
    hbnbnbljpezu1ypdil5q.jpg
    tlefhuba4044o5whnprs.jpg
    geayvwqedqlsnev2tqfl.jpg
    x1gb8hf1jzup1gn3wret.jpg

    Since this has been what I've been working on, I found it an interesting alternative that starting flush with vanishing points.

    IrukaNightDragontapeslinger
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    This is awesome -- I came here to post that exact same thing, Enc! As someone who has struggled with drawing interiors, I'm totally fascinated by this approach. Looks like a really easy way to establish the perfect angle of your scene with minimal drawing up front. Can't wait to try it out.

    Lamp on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    Huh! That's a really cool/unique/interesting approach.

  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    I think Loomis' Successful Drawing has a section on that sort of thing, as well as some other methods of transferring floor plans and architectural views. Since the method is Photoshopless it involves drawing a grid with properly measured out squares, finding measuring points on the horizon line and whatnot which is a pain in the ol' caboose.

    The thing you have to watch for without a properly measured grid drawn out is that you're not totally messing up the proportions of the room when you skew the floor plan.

    ChicoBlue on
    tynicEnckevindee
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    There was a video posted in the chat thread recently that had interviews with some comic artists, in which Bernie Wrightson described drawing as if he was simply tracing an image he already had in his mind and projecting it onto his paper with his eyes. It's not the first time I've heard someone describe their process this way, but It got me thinking about my own process.

    I spent a little time in my sketchbook while rolling this idea around and I've realized that I don't usually have any image in my mind at all when I'm drawing, which sounds like a kind of alarming thing when I write it out like that. Most of the marks I make are anchored upon what's already there, and the more I think about it the more some things start to make sense. The white page is a particular tyrant for me. My first marks at the beginning of any work are often stumbling and clumsy and searching. I find myself in profound admiration of anyone who can crank out even simple drawings from imagination with a pen or marker in a decisive and confident manner, and I wonder what must be the difference between us. I also wonder if this is something that can be cultivated or is maybe just an inherent difference in the way different people tick.

    I also have a particular problem sometimes with drawing, say, a face, and I will find very suddenly that I've drawn one part of the face in a certain perspective and another feature in a terribly different perspective only a short distance away. I'm not sure if it's merely laziness, or inattentiveness, or a problem of 'missing the forest for the trees'. Taken in context of realizing that my working process is a patchwork of one shape welded onto or refined from the others I've already made, it's a small wonder that I frequently produce drawings that skew wildly out of control as minor (or major) mistakes compound upon each other. I could peel off the layers of some of my digital paintings, like diving through geological strata, and I think some people might be surprised by how hideously shitty some of the drawing is at the very earliest stages.

    I've resolved to spend more sketchbook time drawing only with permanent media, perhaps it will help.

    I'm not sure I even have a real question here. I guess I'm curious if other people can relate to this, or if not, how their mental processes may differ when drawing creatively.

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    @Scosglen I work much the same as you do, and wonder the same things. I brought this up before (jeez, has it really been over 2 years?) when I heard Glen Keane talking about how he draws vs Milt Kahl, who works in a similar fashion as Wrightson:

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/25523861#Comment_25523861 (scroll down to the second part).

    I really liked- and routinely think back on- @Wassermelone 's comment of, "I don't know how to draw or paint... I know how to correct stuff until its right", which a lot of the time is how it feels. (Also why I hate drawing in front of people that expect me to look like I'm going to shit out some primo-ass art right in front of their faces- as far as I can tell, most people that use a whiteboard on the regular can do a better job of that than I can. Gimme some time to hammer that shit out and I can make something that looks decent, but I always think if people watch me draw they're going to say, "I thought you were an artist...?" after about a minute.)

    I've been trying to do more exercises in ballpoint pen to try to force myself to do more work in my head/work towards a more deft execution, but it's something I find pretty challenging. (I also read that Marko Djurdjevic worked exclusively in pen for a year or more and he's pretty dang good at the drawing, so I figured I could give it a shot.) Whether I am likely to succeed in this, or if this will help me actually become a better artist, or if that way of working is actually better in any way or if it just seems more impressive, I don't know.

    WassermelonetynicLampMangoes
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    I think theres a danger in thinking that because someone else has an entirely different work flow that your work flow is wrong.

    You should definitely try and see how someone elses work flow could improve yours or offer contrast to how you work, but I think you are doing a 'grass is greener' type thing here @Scosglen

    tynicAngel_of_Baconsquidbunny
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2015
    I've definitely read comments by lots of very, very good artists who say they have to noodle around a lot before they start getting anywhere. I think one thing practise can help with is the time it takes to go from nothing to something, maybe?


    personally I have to do both, it's very rare I can get a complete image in my head and transfer it to the page without it turning out stiff or just plain crappy. Usually I have to grow an idea organically, and find the shape of it in some kind of physical/digital medium before I can really see the steps that will bring me to the end point. But at that point I then have to have a pretty solid vision for how it will look when finished, or otherwise it ends up half-baked. I'm trying to get a print done now and it's turning out absolute turds, because when I planned it I only got as far as the linework, and figured "eh I'll sort out the colours when I get to them." Which is... not working out at all.

    tynic on
  • kevindeekevindee Registered User regular
    I do the same. Almost all the time I'm drawing anything, I have no idea what's happening. When something comes out after a few hours and it looks good, I suddenly panic and go "wait, what the fuck did I do? I need to remember how I got here for next time!". I guess it's good to reflect on staying present as you work, but I doubt there is a "best way to work" scenario here. If anything, we should find a really, really bad-ass artist who works without knowing what the hell he's doing to ease everyone's anxiety about this.

    tapeslinger
  • m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    I find that a lot of the time what's making it shitty in the beginning is the pressure to make something that looks good. I'll sit there trying really hard to make something that looks perfect, and it looks like crap. Meanwhile the doodles I do when I'm droning in class or having a conversation are usually way better, since I don't have that pressure and it's my hand doing everything automatically, so it has a nice consistent line produced by those automatic movements. So I guess I should probably work on putting less pressure on myself, to get to that state faster where it's just stuff appearing on the paper, looking right.

    tapeslingerNibCromKallisti
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