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A car adventure.
h3ndu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Recently I've been having a really intense craving to learn more about cars. I mean really super strong cravings.
I was wondering if there was any general ideas of what kind of car I could buy to maybe do some tinkering with - the end goal would be to turn it into something beautiful. Something stock that I could mess with, take apart, put back together, replace parts with, and be proud of - as a past time hobby that would be generally affordable.
A friend of mine has been whispering 'Mustang' into my ear, but I have the fealing I would want to start out smaller, but honestly I just don't know where. I currently own a Volkswagen Jetta - 5 speed manual. It's a 2.0 liter engine, not a lot of power at all, but I love her for what she is - it's just there is apparently no market for improving a vehicle like one I own, so the itch I want to scratch is not being taken care of.
I'm a total novice with this stuff - and any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
I was wondering if there was any general ideas of what kind of car I could buy to maybe do some tinkering with - the end goal would be to turn it into something beautiful. Something stock that I could mess with, take apart, put back together, replace parts with, and be proud of - as a past time hobby that would be generally affordable.
A friend of mine has been whispering 'Mustang' into my ear, but I have the fealing I would want to start out smaller, but honestly I just don't know where. I currently own a Volkswagen Jetta - 5 speed manual. It's a 2.0 liter engine, not a lot of power at all, but I love her for what she is - it's just there is apparently no market for improving a vehicle like one I own, so the itch I want to scratch is not being taken care of.
I'm a total novice with this stuff - and any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea.
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There are heaps of things you can do to Volkswagens, and dozens of companies making after-market parts for them.
But if you want something that will be cheaper to mod, and has a higher performance ceiling, get something Nissan. A Silvia, a Skyline, or a 180SX. The after-market for these vehicles is a multi-billion dollar industry, with literally hundreds of different companies making anything you can think of, and a lot of stuff you wouldn't.
Nissans huh? If I were looking more toward american cars what would I want?
What kind of things would I want to look for in a Silva a Skyline or a 180sx? Key thing is I want one that hasn't been messed with yet...
To kill yourself. Nah, just kidding. Yank tanks aren't too bad. But to get a completely stock fox body 'Stang up to the same performance level as a dead stock S15 Silvia turbo, you'd be spending thousands on engine, brakes, suspension... And even then it's only as fast as a modern four cylinder. And it's still a really old car, with a really old interior, and fuel consumption out the ass
Look for one that is low mileage, and hasn't been backyard modded. If you see a car within your budget that has had a bunch of work done to it by a reputable workshop, and the owner isn't an idiot ("Hi, what kind of mods have you done to your car?" "It's running three bar of boost on stock internals!" *hang up*), then after a mechanical inspection gives the car the all-clear, by all means buy it.
Owning a classic American muscle car is something everyone (at least men in America) should do at least once. I drive a WRX as my daily, but I have a 55 Chevy I take out on weekends. I am guessing you can figure out which one I enjoy more... Also classic muscle cars are great with the ladies. This is just fact. Also that reminds me...if you go for American muscle make sure you get something with a bench seat. None of this bucket seat nonsense.
Color: Babyshit Tan
Cost: 5 dollars
The earlier ones aren't terribly fast, which fits with you wanting to start with something a little tamer. My old '83 5.0 was something like 175hp and 225ish tq at the motor stock. Mine had a 3.08 rear end but many had a 2.73 rear. 2.73 rear with that hp and torque is economy car territory these days as far as acceleration goes, but without the economy.
An old Cutlass Supreme can be cool as hell, too. In highschool a good friend of mine had a '77 Cutlass Supreme with t-tops. That was coolest car with holes in the floor board ever.
unless OP lives outside of the US - this is a bad idea... if you live in Canadia or elsewhere, feel free to ignore the following though.
turbo/hi-performance nissans sold in the US were really limited to the 300zx tt... and if you really want to dive into that nightmare on your 1st project you should consider juggling chainsaws instead... it'll be just as painful but cheaper!
any 180sx or skyline is basically illegal here - and so are the turbo motors (SR20, etc. ) that folks stuff into 240sx cars - basically they were never sold here so they can't be made to legally pass inspection/emissions
and any 240sx you find here is either beat to hell (due to the drifting craze that happened a few years back) or mint and worth a ton
i would second the old muscle or pony car idea... they're dead simple and really easy to take apart and put back together... no electronics to worry about, and a really big community to support you (both online, and in print) should you have questions or would like to upgrade anything... the only thing really 'tricky' is the carburetor, but even that beats the electrical gremlins, and can typically be solved by taking it apart on your table and cleaning it
most important thing is to LEAVE YOUR DAILY DRIVER ALONE... leave that dependable 2.slow jetta alone and only work on your project car... the fastest way to leave yourself w/out transportation is to think that you can depend on your project car to get you to work (or school) back and forth reliably
Well I'd avoid the first one all together. It's a 4 Cylinder model and while they're not the worst car possible, they're pretty close. Especially in that price range.
The second link is better compared to the first. I've always found the 3.8L v6 in these cars to be noisy and inefficient. That said it is a pony car which means those two words are basically the definition. Having driven that era mustang with the v6 quite a bit, I've always been thoroughly unimpressed. I'd recommend looking for one with the v8 engine, though you'll spend a bit more on the purchase, any modifications you want to do afterwards will be much cheaper due to the far expanded aftermarket for it.
Something like one of these is where I would start if I were looking for a mustang
http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto/2640020638.html
http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto/2636429312.html
The SVO Mustangs are a turbo charged 2.3L. They're fun and fairly rare which makes them cool, but you have to drive on them at their limits to really have fun from what SVO owners have told me. Early 80s turbo engines were also not really known for being the most reliable things in the world.
yeah, confirmed, that's an svo vin - http://www.svoca.com/registry/decode.htm
Parts for the motor and any SVO specific trim is not going to be as plentiful as for a 5.0L and probably a bit pricy.
The quad-cams are all Cobras. The regular Mustangs when they started doing it all only have SOHC.
I believe it's also easier to get more HP out of the older Fox bodies than the SN-95's and such too. Or at least for cheaper. It's much easier to stick in a bigger cam in the 302 than in the 4.6, since you have double the parts and like 8x the work.
I drive a very mildly built quad cam cobra. I do not at all recommend it for a car for learning about doing work unless you like spending money, especially when also looking to stay with a fairly tame motor initially. The DOHC 4.6L motors have relatively little aftermarket compared to the old Fox body mustangs and even the SOHC 4.6L motors and are generally more expensive to buy parts for.
I especially don't recommend "just throw a blower on it". If you're going with the pre-03 motors (03+ are already blown, although you can certainly put a better one on), then running enough boost to be worth the money adn effort it cost to get done means you're going to throw a rod. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. The rods and bearings the use in the N/A motors just weren't made to deal with that. They're made to be light weight for N/A applications and plenty of guys who are way smarter than me have said they're barely qualified for that in a performance car.
OP: I'd recommend getting a Mustang as well. I wish you luck getting a Mustang GT that hasn't had the living shit beat out of it, but they really are great cars for starters. It might almost be better to buy one with a V-6 or Inline 4 cylinder and start working on everything but the engine there, like the suspension, body, electronics, etc., before trying to work on the engine. For the most part, working on the engine is probably the easiest things you'll do.
I've been talking with the guy who owns this one - http://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto/2640020638.html - the interior needs some love, but apparently it runs fine. I'm going to see if I can test drive it some time this week. Do you guys have any recomendations for starter car reading? Like a mustangs fr dummies type stuff? And what should I be looking for in the car - under the hood?
I'd recommend picking up a Haynes manual for whatever car you end up getting.
Interior parts should be pretty easy to fix up. Under the hood, I'd check for any oil leaks, coolant leaks, worn or cracked belts or any kind of wiring mess that might be a bit of work to clean up.
Doing what everybody else does is generally a lame idea. The two valve motors aren't too bad, but the quad cam jobbies are where all the real fun is at.
Check for the usual things like rust, especially around the wheel wells and floorboards underneath the driver and passenger seats, and accidents.
The guy has already modified it a bit, so get a complete list of mods of what he's done, when he's done them and all that.
How many miles are on the motor? Was it rebuilt? How many on the tranny and rear end (giggitty?)? What is the gear ratio for the rear end (.308, .273, .411, etc.)?
For a first project car, tried and true is probably the best route to go.
I just don't recommend it for a first project car. The aftermarket kind of sucks and is expensive so the usual upgrade route is gears -> exhaust -> sometimes cai -> blower if you've got the money -> tune. Once you go the blower route, a full rebuild is on its way. There are only two common aftermarket intake manifolds I can think of (and a few guys doing small batches of semi-custom short runner intakes), which give minimal gain for how stupidly expensive they are and at least one of which really needs cams to go with it. Cams are also stupidly expensive for a relatively small gain compared to what a cam change can do for you on an old 5.0. There just isn't that much to do with them, and most of it isn't worth the cost unless you're involved with proper organized racing. While not nearly as bad as the drivetrain situation, the suspension/handling department doesn't have as much to play around with compared to other cars, either.
I like svtperformance.com. Tons of really knowledgeable guys there. I know it says svt performance, but there are also forums on there for the old 5.0s, the SOHC 4.6L GTs, and the newer Mustangs.
I was going to start a new thread, but I remembered I had started this one when I began this journey.
I put money down on a 1978 Corvette the other day, and intend to roll it into my driveway in a few days here. It is in surprisingly good condition - runs very strong and has no issues motor wise, but the interior needs some serious love.
I am as much a novice as I was before - and would appreciate general mechanical recommendations (I am a book learner, so BOOKS on this subject would be beyond awesome). Any particular experience in the facet of restoring a classic I should be looking into?
An example of my ignorance -
A friend of mine's first words were, "replace the 350 with a 454". Now I understand he was talking about the engine - but what the hell delineates the numbers? Displacement? Torque? This is what I missed out on as a boy. I played with guns instead. The small details are the things I have a desire to know, and I want to know all of them.
The first thing I would suggest is deciding what your goals are for this car. Do you want to restore it to factory like condition? Do you want to modify it beyond what was ever imagined by the engineers who designed it? Do you want to do something in the middle?
After that I'd spend a good bit of time going over every wearable part on the car, bushings, brakes, mounts, hoses, filters, etc.
Then I'd suggest driving it as is for a while and saving up a good chunk of cash because older cars tend to need a lot more maintenance than more modern cars.
As for books. You'll definitely want to pick up one of these Haynes Manual.
Haynes and Chilton are both good. You may be able to track down a copy of the service manuals. I would also pick up a general purpose auto mechanics book.
My dad gave me this years ago. I'm not sure how it would compare with current alternatives, or if that would even matter given your car is pre-ODB (right?).