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How to overcome workplace assholes? Please help?

YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
edited November 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
I lost my job (got packaged out) because of assholes at work. Can someone help me, but first, this is what happened:

After identifying and presenting significant non-compliance findings to the management team that the Supervisor was unable to find last year, the Supervisor's hockey buddy and the team leader started harassing me (Edit: Presentation was requested by the Supervisor). The hockey player and team leader came to my office one day and drew a picture on my whiteboard of a hockey picture with everyone in the department on one side of the ice and me on the other. He labeled everyone’s names on the picture and drew a line of me skating pass the manager, supervisor and explained that if I tried passing the hockey player to score on their net that the hockey player would come and body check me to the ground. I asked if I can show the Supervisor this picture. The hockey player and team leader said sure. I went to the washroom to recover after this and when I came back to my office I saw the hockey player in my office and he had added a puddle of blood and "zzz" next to me in the drawing. When I showed the Supervisor this drawing I also ask him if he agreed with this picture. The supervisor said "yes and the department manager would agree as well". This reached HR and the Team Leader was let go. The Supervisor and hockey player made my life miserable after that day. On one occasion the Supervisor invited me to a one on one meeting in a closed door board room to yell at me. He explained that he and the department Manager got their wrist slapped by upper management, and that I am putting his family and career in jeopardy for addressing harassment in the workplace. He also mentioned that he wished I would quit my job and that he was going to pile the work on me from that point forward because he thinks "I don't get it". Funny thing is I met all his deadlines, identified even more opportunities, and addressed more risk exposed in the department. I came in weekends and worked 10+ hours to get things done because he made getting information very difficult. But I did it, I met the targets and then some.

Regardless of the results I was producing the environment grew increasingly hostile. I also did not know what to do about the Supervisor and hockey player's ongoing acts of intimidation and harassment. For example, the hockey player brought his hockey sticks/equipment to work one day and he slapped my ankle with the sticks when I passed him in the hallway. I also notice that he would bang on the side of my office walls when he walked pass my office. When I brought this up to the Supervisor he alleged that someone saw me bumping into the hockey player and that no one saw the hockey player slap my ankle.

I wanted to quit my job at that time because I was clearly being tagged teamed by these assholes. However, I hanged tough because I found more significant errors in the department and I ranked addressing these issues ahead of myself. I think I was hoping that someone in the company, perhaps the department manager, would recognize my integrity and work ethics and they would do something about these assholes. When the manager of the department finally got involved, he came to my office and asked if I was happy at the company? I said I was happy with my work and the value it has created for the shareholders. Shortly after this meeting, I got packaged out and was provided with some free service from a HR consulting firm to help find my next job placement. I'm so shocked at the company's decision. Is the management team blind to all this? Btw, I’m a visible minority in this department of a large cap publicly traded oil and gas company.

Can someone help me because I'm losing sleep over this? I’ve never felt discrimination and prejudice of this magnitude in my life?

1) Should I accept the severance package? 2) Was I just unlucky with this department and can I assume adults at other companies will behave more professionally?3) What do I tell the interviewers when they ask me about this company and about the people there? Should I tell them the truth?4) Do you think the manager was in on this from the very beginning?5) Was this discrimination, harassment or just professional jealously?6) What do I need to do to ensure that this never happens to me again?Thank you in advance for the advice


Edit: The following are notes to clarify some confusions from reading your kind advice
1- The review and presentation was requested by the Supervisor
2- The non-compliance falls under the Mines and Minerals Rights Act and applicable Provincial guidelines.

YourBuddy on
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Posts

  • SiskaSiska Shorty Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    (1) If you feel up to fighting this, talk to a lawyer before accepting the severance package, or signing anything. I don't know where you can find a "good" lawyer, but googling workplace harassment and wrongful termination might be a start. They will be able to tell you if this is worth fighting.

    Siska on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    You mention that you're a minority, do you think race was a factor? If you hadn't brought it up it wouldn't have crossed my mind as the way you present things it seems like they were responding to your making the supervisor and team leader look bad, and then through a lot of poor behavior on their part, snowballed into a shitstorm.

    I've never worked for a large company, and I'm not sure what your options are. It sounds like the decision makers have already decided you're not a good fit, or at least you're easier to eliminate than eliminating or rehabbing these other guys. It could be they think you're a liability (lawsuit) or just think the easiest way out of this mess is to pay you off.

    My experience with management is they don't really want to address problems like these and they just want them to go away.


    Edit: And to answer your questions, I cannot say what you "should" do since I just don't know the whole story and have no way of knowing if you've a skewed perspective of what was going on. Intimidation and most forms of physical contact are generally no-noes, but what the culture is like naturally varies between corporations and is not always in line with mission statements and HR directives.

    1) I would.
    2) Maybe, Probably? It could be that place just operated in a "non-compliant" way and everyone got the message through observation that that's just how the place works. Professionalism varies between (and within) companies, but I've found most managers to be an admixture of professional, friendly, and tend to cast a blind eye towards dealing with problems that are costly to fix or expose them to risk.
    3) You're going to have to think about this, maybe even get some professional or at least outside advice on this. I'm not sure how you should cast it, but you don't want to give the impression that you're not a "team player".
    4) Possibly? But not necessarily. This is just as likely to be the most expedient solution to these issues. Also the manager may not be out to get you, but may have more of a history with these other guys and there may not have been problems in the past, while you're the new guy.
    5) Impossible to tell from this side of the monitor. Never ascribe to malice what could be explained by incompetence, greed, or laziness.
    6) That's a hard one. You can't ensure anything, all you can do is if someone is making your workplace hostile you need to decide if you want to find a job elsewhere or starting a paper trail with HR or whatever conflict resolution procedures exist.

    Djeet on
  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Take the money and get a new job. Next job try not to make everyone angry at you. You turned them all into management for "non-compliance". Most people would be somewhat upset. They probably see you throwing them all under the bus for your own gain. You already informed management to whatever issues might be important, what were they going to do? Fire everyone else? Easiest just to fire you, fix the issues and keep the people that they already have. You were the one rocking the boat. I'm sure that is how the other employees and management see it.

    So basically, work on office politics. If something is "non-compliant" in an important way, that is making everyone's job harder or endangering safety I would report it, discreetly. If it is "non-compliant" in a way that doesn't really matter, like they didn't put the red jacket on the TPS report or whatever, don't. Because that is just going to piss people off.

    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Compliance is a ridiculous field to make friends in. Keep that in mind.

    It's all about how you present the compliance as well, don't name names just isolate the non-compliance and work towards a resolution with the offending party. If I walked into a place and pointed my finger at the manager and said, "Listen you, you fucked up because of XYZ, fix it." would be different than "So I'm here for compliance, I've filed a report that XYZ was deficient (still not naming names in reports) and would like to give a hand in helping retrain or help you understand why they're wrong."

    You're still going to make enemies. If the non-compliance is bureaucratic red tape, ignore it. If the non-compliance is an OSHA violation and someone's life is at risk, you were right in pointing it out, but still, don't name names.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
    In response to JebusUD's reply:

    Part of the job was performing reviews, and all the work was a task request. I always give the Supervisor an opportunity to review the work so he can challenge the findings. The presentation was scripted for review so he knew what would be presented. The error was pervasive and the financial impact exceeded materiality at the performance level.

    I agree that I'm not experienced in office politics because my focus was on completing tasks objectivity. I'm also shocked that the threat of physcial violence was not addressed when it was brought up.

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    YourBuddy wrote:
    1) Should I accept the severance package? 2) Was I just unlucky with this department and can I assume adults at other companies will behave more professionally?3) What do I tell the interviewers when they ask me about this company and about the people there? Should I tell them the truth?4) Do you think the manager was in on this from the very beginning?5) Was this discrimination, harassment or just professional jealously?6) What do I need to do to ensure that this never happens to me again?Thank you in advance for the advice

    1. Yes. Move on.
    2. To be blunt, you fucked up by going over your bosses head in the first place. Never go over your bosses head unless you catch someone raping a 10 year old boy in the showers. The team lead sure sounds like an asshole, but he was your bosses personal friend and you got him fired. That's generally a terrible idea.
    3. Dunno. Get a new job, quick. Find out if you can get a reference and what HR will say regarding your termination.
    4. Does it matter?
    5. This was you making your bosses life difficult. You're supposed to make his life easier.
    6. In the future don't look towards anyone else to save you from above. No one in senior management or HR cares about you. You're a cog to them. Be an asset to the company and your supervisor.

    On the whole it sounds like the culture of that office is fucked.

    Deebaser on
  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    1) Should I accept the severance package? I think you should probably accept the severange package and take this as a learning opportunity. You should have presented your supervisor directly with the findings and not gone around the chain of command. You can do this in an e-mail to document that you have taken the appropriate steps. As mentioned earlier, if it's an imminent safety issue, then I think that's the only time you might need to push it past your supervisor and all of the large O&G companies have anonymous reporting.

    2) Was I just unlucky with this department and can I assume adults at other companies will behave more professionally? They acted unprofessionally, just as you probably acted unprofessionally. The hockey player sounds like an ass. You need to temper yourself a bit. I don't know which company you work for or where, but working environments vary incredibly at companies as large as what you're talking about.

    3) What do I tell the interviewers when they ask me about this company and about the people there? Should I tell them the truth? You should talk to the placement company that is helping you get your next job about this. They'll probably have some good tips on interviewing after something like this.

    4) Do you think the manager was in on this from the very beginning? No, you probably just became quite annoying.

    5) Was this discrimination, harassment or just professional jealously? It is highly unlikely that they care about your race or that there was any professional jealousy (insert laughter here). Harassment would need to be taken up with HR. I suspect you won't get far with this claim.

    6) What do I need to do to ensure that this never happens to me again? Pay more attention to your surroundings. Learn how the game works and make slow progress until you have solidified a decent reputation and working rapport with the folks there. Rather than try and blast everything at once. Try being less oblivious in the future.

  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Oh - and you are not important. Rule #1.

    Or... rule #6 according to Deebaser up there. :)

    Zombie Nirvana on
  • YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
    Thanks for the advice everyone.
    I will pay closer attention to my surroundings and learn about this office game.



  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    YourBuddy wrote:
    After identifying and presenting significant non-compliance findings to the management team

    Non-compliance with what, exactly?

    Was it noncompliance with the law, or was it noncompliance with company policy?

    If it's noncompliance with company policy, then that's usually not your business. You bring that up with your immediate supervisor, and then do things the way he wants it done. You don't go over your boss's head with that sort of thing. Honestly, employees break company policy all the time, at every company. Some companies only exist because people are willing to ignore stupid policies.

    It's okay, sometimes, to go over your supervisor's head, but it has to be over something really serious. I'm talking illegal stuff - noncompliance with the law, blatant sexual harassment, fraud or embezzlement or theft. Or stuff that threatens people's health and safety. If somebody might die because a forklift driver is showing up drunk, then yeah alert upper management about that.

    That all said, yeah your supervisor and his hockey buddy are douches. But unless you're getting fired for blowing the whistle on something blatantly illegal or immediately dangerous, then your only reasonable option is to take the severance package and move on.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
    Please note that the presentation to the management team was requested by the Supervisor.
    I was simply following orders.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    You should absolutely talk to a lawyer before signing or accepting anything. Most lawyers will give you a free consultation.

    In the future, if you're making harassment complaints, don't make them to the guy who's harassing you's hockey buddy, make them to the HR person.

    Thanatos on
  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote:
    You should absolutely talk to a lawyer before signing or accepting anything. Most lawyers will give you a free consultation.

    In the future, if you're making harassment complaints, don't make them to the guy who's harassing you's hockey buddy, make them to the HR person.

    This. And I can't believe people are saying that this is your fault and that you should play office politics better. You clearly do suck at office politics and should get better for the future, but it sounds like your job was to point out other people's fuck-ups and you were doing your job, and no way you should get fired for doing your job and pointing out fuck-ups. You were subject to illegal workplace harassment. I would absolutely be complaining to high heaven and hiring a shark of a lawyer who would at least threaten to sue. I think it might be too late for you, I would have been complaining and lawyering up much earlier, and at this point your time with the company is clearly over, it just comes down to how much of a severance you can get and can you screw over the guys who were committing assault by threatening you with physical violence. If your supervisor is complicit in threats against you, you should 100% go over their head or to HR. You should have taken a picture of the white board drawing - that's evidence of the harassment you were undergoing. As is, definitely lawyer up and see what can be done, you might have few options at this point, but if I were in your shoes I would be doing everything I could to get every person involved in your workplace harassment fired, and I'd walk out with the building on fire and double middle fingers out.

  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    That is another path forward, of course.

  • big lbig l Registered User regular
    That is another path forward, of course.

    I'm not joking. OP's job was to find waste and inefficiency, he pointed out waste and inefficiency, and he was retaliated against through likely illegal physical and emotional abuse by his supervisors, ending up with him losing his job. In what world is that acceptable? In what world should you not make a big deal about that? OP maybe didn't go about everything perfectly (including documenting his abuse and his attempts to solve any issues through HR or a higher supervisor so he's got documented evidence for any legal conflict) but that in no way justifies his treatment because he "probably just became quite annoying", as you insultingly put it.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Can you be a little more specific about being packaged out? Do you have anything documented? Do you actually feel that this was racially motivated or are you just playing the race card to play it?

  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    I never said it was justified.

  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    I seriously can't believe that I'm seeing people chalk this stupid shit up to "office politics" and giving advice that loosely translates to "maybe next time you won't snitch." And to a person who has been threatened with physical violence, no less.

    OP: There's no excuse for this. You're not at fault (even if you did instigate it as such). Talk to a lawyer. Free consultation. Lay the events out as you have here.

    The rest of you: Grow up. Jesus.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    I seriously can't believe that I'm seeing people chalk this stupid shit up to "office politics" and giving advice that loosely translates to "maybe next time you won't snitch." And to a person who has been threatened with physical violence, no less.

    OP: There's no excuse for this. You're not at fault (even if you did instigate it as such). Talk to a lawyer. Free consultation. Lay the events out as you have here.

    The rest of you: Grow up. Jesus.

    Welcome to the real world.

    EDIT: Sorry about that. Drunk posting. : P Don't even remember doing it.

    Esh on
  • TaterskinTaterskin Registered User regular
    Did you report your Supervisor and hockey player to HR when they started their bs? The company I work for would have fired them or made sure that kind of stuff didnt happen anymore.

    2) You are unlucky, those people are very unprofessional.
    3) I wouldnt bring it up in an interview. If the interviewer digs deep into your work there, then don't lie about it. I've never had an interview where they asked me how my relations with previous managers were.
    4) Don't worry about this
    5) Look up hostile work environment.

  • TheOrangeTheOrange Registered User regular
    Not to mention that you gave him chance to review, he didn't. You were wronged.

    Now, if you should fight for whats right and just? I say it depend on the sevrence, if its more then 3 pay checks, I'd say that and the HR consult hook up are a better deal then the bitter legal war you'd go through otherwise. 3 or less? Burn the house down, take it to its legal extreem

  • DeadfallDeadfall I don't think you realize just how rich he is. In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered User regular
    Gotta agree with DDV. This is not how workplaces work. Not everybody has to be friends, but damn man, I don't think I would've been so passive about it if I was treated like that.

    7ivi73p71dgy.png
    xbl - HowYouGetAnts
    steam - WeAreAllGeth
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Most places I've worked in the minerals industry, the compliance people (IE OSHA/MSHA/Canadian OSH) are managed by a separate "food chain" ... I don't know canadian law on this well, but if this was a SAFETY issue, you should have whistleblower protection and may be able to lodge a federal complaint. That's on the job advancement punishment for the compliance issue.

    The hazing and bullying? Grounds for a hostile workplace complaint if you can find a way to document it. Sorry, other replying posters, hitting someone with sticks and threats of violence are not "office politics"

    OP, in the future, maybe be ON the hockey team, even if it ain't your cup of tea - that would fall under the purvey of office politics.

    Can't advise you on the severance but to my way of thinking you have very little to lose by promptly speaking to a lawyer, just don't call one that advertises on late night TV

    JohnnyCache on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    I don't know what kind of work place environment a lot of you people who are calling this office politics have but this shit is crazy. When people come into your office and draw you a picture about how they're going to crush you that falls outside of the "office game".

    Talk to a lawyer.

  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    That is pretty much the definition of a hostile work environment. It's definitely not "office politics" and probably any lawyer will probably start drooling profusely if you've got any evidence and such. Hopefully these donkeys were dumb enough to email you malicious stuff. In the future, definitely go through HR with complaints like these, and not your supervisor. That way it's documented properly and the right people (hopefully) know about it. Your supervisor likely buried this, and will lie his ass off to the higher ups. Which is probably what led to you getting canned. Check with a lawyer ASAP, and see if their severance offer is reasonable for you to just cut bait. It sounds like they are already in settlement mode anyways.

    Either way, you will not be working in that office ever again, so prepare for that. It's not that you burned the bridge through any fault of your own, but likely the company isn't going to want to take the chance of someone else being aggressive to you. They'd rather pay you and move on, most likely.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Yeah, this is straight up harassment. I'd do everything I could to stick it to the a-holes. While you do need to be cognizant of when you're making others look bad, if you gave them every opportunity to see/justify the results and they did nothing, too bad.

    Also, document the hell out of this if it ever happens.

  • YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Once again, thank you for all your adivice.

    Despite the negative experiences at this company I think I have a better idea in dealing with agressive people. For example, I should have done something when the hockey player took the pad of paper I used to take notes with and threw it across the room in a one to one meeting, amongst other things.

    I thank everyone again for offering your advice, I gain so much from reading different perspectives. I hope what I do with this is the best course of action for me.

    YourBuddy on
  • DibsDibs Registered User regular
    That is one fucked up work place, what the hell?

    I work in an office, and that bullshit wouldn't go over well with anyone. Those are grade school antics.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    YourBuddy wrote:
    Once again, thank you for all your adivice.

    Despite the negative experiences at this company I think I have a better idea in dealing with agressive people. For example, I should have done something when the hockey player took the pad of paper I used to take notes with and threw it across the room in a one to one meeting, amongst other things.

    I thank everyone again for offering your advice, I gain so much from reading different perspectives. I hope what I do with this is the best course of action for me.

    The way you deal with aggressive people in the workplace is by involving HR. It's like internet trolls - don't drop to their level.

  • YourBuddyYourBuddy Registered User regular
    JebusUD has an interesting perspective.

  • JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Thanks, I think. You already showed the relevant HR people the picture before right? I'm not sure what doing it again would solve.

    I should be clear that I think what happened to you was unprofessional and wrong. Hell, your boss may have set you up for failure by making you look for these compliance issues, then scapegoated you when you actually did your job. I just don't know that there is enough there for some kind of lawsuit. However I think you should contact a lawyer for a consultation, those are generally free. I didn't realize you were Canadian. You say that this compliance report was covered under some kind of legal act? If so, then you may have grounds for some kind of lawsuit. If they were breaking the law and you reported it, then you have a case. If they were breaking internal policy and you reported it then probably not.

    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    It sounds like you were working in a screwed up company. In a more professionally-run setting, your coworkers would have found themselves escorted off the premises by security for their antics.

    You could go get a lawyer, I suppose. But, do you want the hassle? I guess that might depend on how easily you can find another job. If finding new employment is not difficult, it probably makes sense to take the severance package and move on with your life.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    I don't think he would be considered a whistleblower, as he was reporting compliance stuff to higher ups, not the authorities. I would imagine it was like a pre-audit before outside people got to it, and really caused issues. I'm guessing the conflict came from him basically pointing out what his supervisor missed, or is doing wrong. this supervisor sounds a complete moron, as it seems he requested the OP do this, didn't review it, and then got pissed when it made him look bad. I'm not sure if my interpretation of the events is correct, but that's what i'm getting out of it. OP, Were you having issues prior to this incident?

    This sounds like a story from high school, not an office.

    I agree with Modern Man, unless the lawyer you talk to thinks you have a slam dunk oppurtunity for a bigger settlement than they are offering in your severance package (depending on evidence, i bet you do), just take the money and run.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    I seriously can't believe that I'm seeing people chalk this stupid shit up to "office politics" and giving advice that loosely translates to "maybe next time you won't snitch." And to a person who has been threatened with physical violence, no less.

    OP: There's no excuse for this. You're not at fault (even if you did instigate it as such). Talk to a lawyer. Free consultation. Lay the events out as you have here.

    The rest of you: Grow up. Jesus.

    Well, it "is" office politics. It may be horrible, and possibly illegal politics, but it's still politics. They were obviously very much playing by their own rules there, and the OP came in and rattled the cage. Was he wrong for doing so? Not at all, as it was what he was tasked with doing... and from the sounds of it, that place is in dire need of a good cleaning out.

    In the future however, he should learn how these things work, not so he can play their game, but so he can avoid a repeat of this unfortunate incident. For instance, he knew the hockey guy and others were all friends and in collusion with one another. He should have reported that harassment above any level they have influence over. It may not always be possible to know these kinds of things before they are an issue, but if he can identify these sorts of relationships that is very helpful. I ran afoul of this once myself when I suggested a complete re-do of a training manual that I then immediately learned was put together by my team lead and her best friend. Both were non technical people... and it showed in the manual... none the less, my career at that company was effectively over due to that. It happens.

    Also, not knowing the nature of his findings or exactly how he presented them, it's hard to say if there was any way he could have presented it with less of an impact yet still retaining all the integrity it needed. As someone pointed out, coming in and saying, "Your work sucks, do something about it" is much more confrontational than, "There are some inefficiencies I've found and I'm here to help get them sorted out".

    As for what to do now, I certainly agree you should talk with a lawyer. You can lay out any information/details you have along with any evidence and documentation. They should be able to tell you if you have a case, if it's worth pursuing, or if you should just take the package offered and move on.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    If you still haven't acted, and if the severance package isn't insulting, you can probably negotiate with HR on what sort of story they'll tell any prospective employers who call. Ask them what they'll say. If they'll say: "We fired him because he was a stupid little rat stoolie," I wouldn't take the deal.

    One nice side-effect of siccing a lawyer on them is that, when you reach a settlement, you put force of law behind what they get to say about you if prospective employers call. It would probably just be something like, "It wasn't a good fit and we went separate ways," which is happily neutral. If you can negotiate that kind of agreement without getting lawyers involved, do it.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    Yeah, what ElJeffe said about references. My wife handles employment law issues for a pharmaceutical company. They're typically happy to agree in severance agreements that they'll give a neutral or positive reference if called by potential employers, in all but the most extreme cases. You're being given a severance package rather than getting hustled out the door by security, so they can always spin it as your position being eliminated for financial reasons. You should put how they want to handle that in your severance agreement.

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    I seriously can't believe that I'm seeing people chalk this stupid shit up to "office politics" and giving advice that loosely translates to "maybe next time you won't snitch." And to a person who has been threatened with physical violence, no less.

    OP: There's no excuse for this. You're not at fault (even if you did instigate it as such). Talk to a lawyer. Free consultation. Lay the events out as you have here.

    The rest of you: Grow up. Jesus.
    Ditto. The "advice" in this thread is absolutely horrifying.

    See a lawyer. Fight this. Get those guys fired.

  • Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    The team leader was let go for his transgression. You were fired for *insert reason from HR*. ElJeffe and Modern's advice is pretty good. The "fight the man" advice is well intentioned, but naive.

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    This seems to be a Canadian issue (I guess from your reference to province), so take advice from a lawyer in your jurisdiction, as like most other things, employment law is a very local thing. Signing a settlement may have certain implications that none of us would (assuming no one here is a Canadian employment lawyer) understand or know about. Further, if you are being offered a settlement issues like your reference could well be on the table for negotiation. Agreed text of such is a standard settlement discussion point in the UK and NZ anyway, for this kind of thing so it may be worth your while considering. An employment lawyer would certainly be able to confirm that.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Institutionalized Safe in jail.Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote:
    I seriously can't believe that I'm seeing people chalk this stupid shit up to "office politics" and giving advice that loosely translates to "maybe next time you won't snitch." And to a person who has been threatened with physical violence, no less.

    OP: There's no excuse for this. You're not at fault (even if you did instigate it as such). Talk to a lawyer. Free consultation. Lay the events out as you have here.

    The rest of you: Grow up. Jesus.
    Ditto. The "advice" in this thread is absolutely horrifying.

    See a lawyer. Fight this. Get those guys fired.

    double ditto. I'm surprised this thread isn't a sea of infractions at this point. All you "blame the victim" advisers should be ashamed of yourselves.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
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