Issue with an eBay purchase.

Prisca

Hi there PAers, here's a scenario for you.

I bought a game listed as Age of Empires: Rise of Rome off eBay several weeks ago. The seller included a picture of the box, two manuals, and what appeared to be the game disc. Shipping for the item was a tad high ($20 USD), and I lived in Canada.

Nonetheless, I bought the item, which took two weeks to arrive. The seller did not provide a tracking # or provide info on the method of shipping. When I received the package, it turned the package did not come with the game at all.

I was frustrated and disappointed. The seller had listed the item as, "what you see is what you get", but failed to place an emphasis on the CD. I communicated with the seller and asked for a complete refund, but he wasn't willing to comply (only a partial refund) He then blamed the issue on me, and told me what it was my responsibility. He even claimed he was the victim here ("I have paypal, ebay, and shipping costs") I want a complete refund, no exceptions. I'd rather not pay return shipping.

I was willing intially willing to forgive him, and let it slide. But I paid $40 for this pos.

I'm thinking of filing a PayPal dispute, but would like to know who's in the wrong here.

Thoughts?

TychoCelchuuu

Did the listing say you were getting a Rise of Rome CD specifically? Or did it just say "you get what's in the picture" and the picture had some sort of disc that you took to be Rise of Rome?

bowen

He is, this is predatory and Ebay frowns on that garbage. Like selling a list of places to buy a handbag but have a handbag as a picture and in small print "this auction is for a list of retailers."

In the future, I would always try a reputable vendor before an auction website. Often times its cheaper, and at least has a warranty.

http://www.amazon.com/Age-Empires-Collectors-Pc/dp/B00004ZB2I/ref=dp_cp_ob_vg_title_2

amateurhour

File a dispute with Ebay and Paypal immediately if you haven't already done so. Include the e-mails and the original listing. Ebay is pretty good about this stuff, as is paypal

Also, go to your bank and ask to reverse the charges. It might take a few calls, but I've had this happen in the past and hassled my bank enough that they just reversed the transaction (if you used a CC and not a Bank Check Card that's a different story obviously, you'd need to call your CC company instead) and then it was on the seller to come after me for the money, which they never did.

edit: do you still have a link to the listing you could put up here?

LadyM

File a dispute with PayPal.

However, it is quite likely you will have to pay return shipping back, that's pretty standard.

Where exactly does he live? You can ship things for waaay less than $20 if you don't use priority shipping. Just use delivery confirmation, to prove that he got it.

Figgy

Dispute it with Paypal. You will win the dispute with 100% certainty.

In the future, stop buying $5 games off eBay for $40.

LadyM wrote:

However, it is quite likely you will have to pay return shipping back, that's pretty standard.

Probably not, in this case. If it were just a miscommunication or a problem with the quality of the product, yes. Since it's very clearly a scam on the part of the seller, most likely not.

Prisca

Thanks for the input guys, lesson learned. I should've known better than to buy a $5 game for $40 off eBay. Silly me.

The seller listed is as a "Video Game" in listing, when it should've been under "Books". The listing stated, "READ BEFORE BID - AGE OF EMPIRES RISE OF ROME" Nowhere, did it mention game disc not included.

He failed to put an emphasis in the description that the game was not included. The image included a CD sleve (it did not actually state, "Rise of Rome" though. Certain older games, especially bargain, would come in a different packaging. I'll put up the eBay link later. Am I still at fault here?

By the way, I don't want to bother with returning the item back to him. I just want a complete refund, is eBay policy alright with that?

Thanks guys.

MushroomStick

This was pretty common scam back in the day (perhaps still now, I guess). A lot of the time an auction would say what you see in the picture is what you get, then the auction winner would receive a box with a picture of a cellphone/ipod/videogame/laptop/etc. in it, and when the person complained, the seller would try to say the auction pic was a pic of the picture. You should dispute this with both ebay and paypal, they should side with you (unless the auction has the words "just a box" or "no game" somewhere in the title).

Ego

Yeah, I'd just file a dispute with paypal/ebay. You're more or less guaranteed to get your money back or at least part of it (if you have to do return shipping.)

Prisca

Thanks again, I'll file the dispute later this evening. I thought only you can only file a dispute with PayPal, or is it possible through eBay as well.

I also want to mention that I was initially and skeptical about committing to the purchase in the beginning. I mentioned that to the seller, and now he claims that I have "buyer's remorse", and that he believes he's treating me fairly. Is he just being arrogant at this point, or does he had a valid point?

He also claimed he paid $30 for shipping, when it took two weeks to arrive and had no tracking info. The box was crude (not one you buy from a post office), and he used newspaper for padding.

It irks me just to think about this fraud.

Skoal Cat

Stop communicating with the seller. You know you got fucked, so stop trying to make excuses for him.
You got totally fucked.

Blake T

Mention this in the dispute.

It's a common thing to do to protect the seller, as shipping is very rarely included for the refund. This way they sell you five dollars worth of rubbish, charge an extra twenty five for shipping and they then only need to refund five when you complain.

This is also against ebay's policies.

In the future don't even worry about asking should you launch a dispute with eBay, as long as you know you aren't trying to scam anyone you will be fine and it will be worth your time.

Siska

Stop worrying about the scammers feelings. He knew that he was tricking you into thinking you were buying the game. Honestly, you seem incredibly naive. In the future, ask a friend to take look before buying stuff off e-bay. Or make a post here and ask the community if they think it's a scam. People do that here all the time.

Prisca

Thanks guys - lesson learned, never again.

Esh

Prisca wrote:

Thanks guys - lesson learned, never again. Here's the item listing for reference:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/160663432326?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I've opened the a dispute case with PayPal.

I was initially willing to let it slide - but it's $40 earned and lost. I was even willing to be generous, and accept a refund (minus the real postage cost he claimed) I later changed my mind after he continued to treat me rudely and in an arrogant manner. He kept on making a point about how indecisive I was when I was hesitant to make a purchase. Yes, I did initially send him a PM that I'd rather revoke my bid, and go through an unpaid item claim. He later insisted I paid extra for shipping, and would refund me the difference if it doesn't work out. He ships the item in a crude packaging/standard mail service, and claims he's the victim.

What's infuriating is his claim that he paid $30 for shipping, when it's evident the shipped package was hardly what he claimed to have paid for.

The giant bold READ BEFORE BID would have been a warning sign for me. It's also pretty clear that that's not the game disc. I've never seen a CD/DVD packaged like that for a game and I've been buying CD-ROM games since the early 90s. That's definitely a promo disc. I don't know how PayPal is about these things, but this is pretty clearly a case of "Let the buyer beware". I would've taken the shipping loss and gotten at least that much of your money back.

Blake T

Actually since the description describes the rating of the game and what it would run on, it would imply that the game itself is included in the photo.

What you see is what you get would also be what you see in the description.

Esh

Blake T wrote:

Actually since the description describes the rating of the game and what it would run on, it would imply that the game itself is included in the photo.

What you see is what you get would also be what you see in the description.

It says "Comes with what's shown in the photo only".

bowen

There's no way to tell if the game CD isn't in that sleeve. The dude was clearly passing this off as the game and not the books, the original box, and a shareware CD sleeve.

If he had just said, "This is some boxes and a book." he would be in the clear, no, he listed what the game was and all the specs to run it. The OP isn't going to know if the CD is in that sleeve or not, and that is beside the point that he is listing this wrong.

Obvious scammer is obvious.

Sentry

Yeah, there is no way I wouldn't have assumed I was getting the game. That is clearly a scam.

MushroomStick

Unless that box has multiplayer action via the internet, this item has been severely misrepresented.

amateurhour

Prisca wrote:

Thanks for the input guys, lesson learned. I should've known better than to buy a $5 game for $40 off eBay. Silly me.

The seller listed is as a "Video Game" in listing, when it should've been under "Books". The listing stated, "READ BEFORE BID - AGE OF EMPIRES RISE OF ROME" Nowhere, did it mention game disc not included.

He failed to put an emphasis in the description that the game was not included. The image included a CD sleve (it did not actually state, "Rise of Rome" though. Certain older games, especially bargain, would come in a different packaging. I'll put up the eBay link later. Am I still at fault here?

By the way, I don't want to bother with returning the item back to him. I just want a complete refund, is eBay policy alright with that?

Thanks guys.

Scam or not, he's entitled to the item back if he has to give you a full refund. You can't keep both.

LadyM

He paid $7.62 for postage. But it sounds to me like he's offering you a refund of $31.50, not saying he paid that much for shipping. Unless I'm just missing something he wrote.

Figgy

The seller fucked himself by entering the UPC into his listing. It describes exactly what the OP thought he was getting.

To put his another way, could I make a listing for an iPhone 4S, enter all the proper info and specs, but say "what you see is what you get" and post a photo of an iPhone 4 that's face down? It looks identical that way.

What about a Bluray movie, but the photo only shows the cover, and no disc is inside?

There are rules on eBay that prohibit this kind of intentionally misleading listing. The OP's case is very cut and dry. If the seller wasn't trying to scam anyone, he would have simply written "game disc not included" in the listing.

bowen

I wouldn't even deal with the original seller anymore. Chances are you'll send it back and not even get your money back. If he loses money from shipping, oh well, guess you shouldn't try to scam people next time.

darqness

I can't believe that guy has as many positive feedbacks as he does if he sells items like this. Honestly he should know better.
Have you brought up the fact that you will be leaving a negative or neutral feedback for this transaction because of the sick misrepresentation? With a score like his, he'll be much "nicer" and probably try a bit harder to help you out.
Paypal will side with you in the case. Worst case scenario is they make you mail it back with tracking for your refund.

TheKoolEagle

looking at the negative reviews from him its quite obvious he spins them to his favor, so I don't think he really cares if you leave negative reviews (which you still should to let others know)

I always double check description and negative reviews from other customers, I looked at his store and the guy literally has thousands of items up, so theres no way to go through a lot of them and see if he just does shady business, but it looks like he is a mix of shady and non-shady, the fact he is saying shipping is $30 in canada to another place in canada is ridiculous, but either way you got scammed and by the description you may not see a penny back

fightinfilipino

darqness wrote:

I can't believe that guy has as many positive feedbacks as he does if he sells items like this. Honestly he should know better.
Have you brought up the fact that you will be leaving a negative or neutral feedback for this transaction because of the sick misrepresentation? With a score like his, he'll be much "nicer" and probably try a bit harder to help you out.
Paypal will side with you in the case. Worst case scenario is they make you mail it back with tracking for your refund.

it is also extremely easy to manipulate eBay feedback. that hasn't changed in a long time.

AtomBomb

It looks like he acquires stuff at Salvation Army and the like and really has no idea what it is he's selling. It seems like he thought he might not have a sellable item, so he made a tiny effort to cover his ass, but I don't think he did an adequate job of describing what he was selling. The pictures are somewhat misleading. You should be able to assume that when someone shows a retail box, the item is inside it unless the seller explicitly states that it isn't. I can't put all my DVDs in a binder, take a picture of the cases and then list my "collection" as what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

Regardless, ebay favors the buyer in pretty much every dispute, so you shouldn't have any problem getting your money back.

EDIT- Yep, definitely the Salvation Army.

skeldare

The fact that the picture in the auction didn't show the CD would've been the first indicator to me that something was wrong.

Hope everything works out for you.

darqness

fightinfilipino wrote:

darqness wrote:

I can't believe that guy has as many positive feedbacks as he does if he sells items like this. Honestly he should know better.
Have you brought up the fact that you will be leaving a negative or neutral feedback for this transaction because of the sick misrepresentation? With a score like his, he'll be much "nicer" and probably try a bit harder to help you out.
Paypal will side with you in the case. Worst case scenario is they make you mail it back with tracking for your refund.

it is also extremely easy to manipulate eBay feedback. that hasn't changed in a long time.

Is it? Ever since they've made it so that a seller cannot leave a buyer a negative, it's actually been harder.
To revise it the customer that leaves a negative has to agree to revise it.

Prisca

Thanks again for all the feedback and support, guys, it's really much appreciated.

In regards to the PayPal dispute claim:they've decided that I should return the item back to the seller, and pay for return shipping. It's not the result I had hoped for, but I suppose it's reasonable in PayPal's view.

I've had to pay $24.87 for expited shipping + tracking, and would receive a complete refund of $39.42. It still irks me that he had the nerves to lie about the item and shipping costs/method.
Anyways, lesson learned, I'll be more careful next time.

Figgy

What? Why are you using expedited shipping?

skeldare

I would have picked the slowest, cheapest shipping option honestly. As long as you send it back, you have no reason to expedite anything.

Prisca

It was the cheapest shipping option with tracking. PayPal wouldn't have refunded me the funds if I didn't provide a tracking #.

Unless if I was misinformed.

bowen

@Prisca did you use your post office as opposed to like UPS or something? That box should be like... $5 to ship with tracking confirmation.

Prisca

I used Canada Post, and it would be delivered through USPS apparently.

The box itself didn't really weigh much (it was medium sized "cheap quality material" parcel) I didn't repackage the item in a different box though. I should've considered putting it in an envelope.

so I was surprised they still charged that much for it. I think the tracking # was why it was so expensive.

bowen

Yeah it seems without the tracking number it's about $5. That's depressing that you have to pay so much.

Forar

Yes, getting tracking for a package to the US from Canada is fucking infuriating. That's kind of beyond our control (I'm really not sure who is more to blame, but it's annoying to see people sending things with tracking from one side of the US to the other for a few bucks, but trying to do it to a place one State south of where I am is $Texas.

But enough ranting from me.

Yes, this is an olllllld scam. I got snagged by a similar one once, a long time ago when it was easier/cheaper to buy Magic: the Gathering booster packs from ebay sellers. A guy was offering "sealed booster boxes" at a reasonable discount (like $5 or 10 below the usual rate), so I bought one. Later I noticed negative feedback being given that he had ripped people off, and when I wrote the seller about it, he was evasive in his response. Lo and behold, when my "box" arrived, rather than the 36 packs one would normally get in a sealed booster box (straight from the factory WOTC has them printed), it was instead a small box made out of cardboard with 2 boosters (see, plural!) in it.

Suffice to say, I was furious, and through the feedback another user was able to get in touch with me to let me know that some who had been scammed had contacted the police where the seller lived. I actually spoke to a detective about it (explaining what a "sealed booster box" was to someone who presumably thought this was a bunch of kids bullshit was fun) and eventually got a refund.

So, yeah, don't take it laying down. Ebay and Paypal frown on this kind of bullshit, and while it may prompt you to be a little more thorough in your shopping (and note, I'm NOT assigning you any blame here, merely noting that there are assholes on ebay and through my mistakes, misadventures and misfortunes I've gained some experience avoiding or preventing issues from arising) and minimize others from taking advantage of you.

Glad to hear you will get at least some money back.

LadyM

Ohhhh, Canada to the US . . . Well, that explains it all right. Yeah, putting on tracking is wise in this case. Just depressing it costs so much.