I'll agree that alpha protocol had some horrible mechanics, and that would ruin someone's opinion of the game.
But it had some pretty slick writing (for a pulp spy movie, in the vein of mission impossible). Another thing I liked about it was the timed dialog choices so that the conversations flowed like normal speech back and forth. It was kind of a mini-game to choose in the heat of an argument to escalate it for vindictive justice, or diffuse it for the info that you needed. It wasn't stilted to let the player spend 5minutes to ponder over the 'best' choice they had in each reply.
It may not seem revolutionary, but I dont remember games before Alpha Protocol using timed dialogue.
And then the Walking Dead Season 1 used it to *great* effect.
In the short time I played AP, I didn't feel like I had quite enough time to consider my response. In Walking Dead, I felt like I had plenty of time (usually).
AP has 3 real weaknesses: The first mission, the last mission and the hacking minigame.
The two missions are both too long and railroady, with almost no player impact. The last mission also has 2 really tedious bosses.
The shooting mechanics aren't that bad but they aren't emphasized by the game. To shoot someone you need to stabilise your shot. The size of your crosshair drastically impact your shotcone. Cover and skills trump fast hitscan for headshots.
Its stealth implementation is ok but suffers from complexity which always ends with wonky results.
A strange problem it has is that much of the choice impact you make isn't clear until a second playthrough because it is woven into the story too well. The amount of diversity is staggering.
A strange problem it has is that much of the choice impact you make isn't clear until a second playthrough because it is woven into the story too well. The amount of diversity is staggering.
This became apparent for me when I was doing a watercooler round-up of my playthrough with a friend who had also played the game.
I started talking about Sis and he just gave me a blank look, turns out there were entire characters who were fairly major in my game that didn't turn up in his playthough due to choices he had made.
A strange problem it has is that much of the choice impact you make isn't clear until a second playthrough because it is woven into the story too well. The amount of diversity is staggering.
This became apparent for me when I was doing a watercooler round-up of my playthrough with a friend who had also played the game.
I started talking about Sis and he just gave me a blank look, turns out there were entire characters who were fairly major in my game that didn't turn up in his playthough due to choices he had made.
Either way, really looking forward to South Park
That's kind of a strike against Obsidian for the masses, as many people just don't realise that some of the different variations are even there.
Bioware keep it... well, maybe not 'simpler', but more obvious when your choices have a certain effect. Just some extra dialogue that makes it clearer.
Do we know if TSOT is going to have multiple outcomes? That doesn't seem especially South Park-y.
Bioware didn't really do multiple outcomes though, Mass Effect the actual difference between Paragon and Renegade were often little more than a different line of dialogue.
It was really well done so long as you didn't look behind that curtain, but in most cases it was the illusion of choice.
I'm realizing, appreciatively, that this is actually one of the very few mainstream, video game "auteur"-driven experiences we're likely to see in this age. Matt and Trey have enormous amounts of money and, to a relevant extent, power. The game exists because they chose to give their talent to it. They can't be bullied into producing more. It can't be made into an annual production cycle. It probably won't ever see a sequel because I doubt if Matt and Trey will ever feel the need to make one.
It's incredibly odd that we got to a place of, potentially, some genuine artistic integrity due to the fact that this is a licensed video game spin-off from a cartoon with dirty jokes.
In terms of AAA budget games, I agree. But this year alone I'm going to be playing Hotline Miami 2, Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Shovel Knight, and who knows how many other indie games that are exactly what the creators wanted to make. There's plenty of artistic integrity in video games. Honestly even among blockbuster games Stick of Truth is not the only example I could point to.
I wanted to replay Alpha Protocol but the "playing" part of it is extremely dated. Which is a shame because the dynamic story is really cool!
Yeah, I wish we could have gotten a game like that which was more "adventure" and less "clumsy ARPG", because the story branching and dialogue stuff was super cool.
I wanted to replay Alpha Protocol but the "playing" part of it is extremely dated. Which is a shame because the dynamic story is really cool!
Yeah, I wish we could have gotten a game like that which was more "adventure" and less "clumsy ARPG", because the story branching and dialogue stuff was super cool.
In some ways South Park is actually the fixed successor to AP's *gameplay* (as in combat/exploration) here. More focus on adventure mechanics as well as a better focus on combat.
Obsidian will always get the benefit of the doubt from people who remember Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, and Icewind Dale. My thing with Obsidian is I always see the potential for greatness in their products even if they don't reach it. KotOR 2 could've been a 10/10 GOAT game if they had been able to meet their deadlines or whatever caused them to fail to finish the ending properly. I enjoyed New Vegas a lot more than Fallout 3 because I just liked the style of having the different towns and all that have all these meaningful choices you could make, etc. I mean, I completed New Vegas by using my speech skill to convince the last boss of the legion or whatever to stand down. It's rare i can get that kind of experience from an RPG.
The thing i'm optimistic about too is that Obsidian is always better when working with someone else's material, whether it's Star Wars, Fallout, Neverwinter Nights, etc. I tried playing Alpha Protocol, and while I could definitely see the Obsidian magic in the story and the dialogue, the gameplay in that game is simply too bad for me to play. I think they just need someone else to supply them with X amount of the work for a game so that they can do a great job on Y amount. They just seem to fall flat when they have to handle it all. Maybe it's that they try to make every area complex and polished and run out of time, maybe they are bad at managing the budgets for their games, I don't know.
The thing i'm optimistic about too is that Obsidian is always better when working with someone else's material, whether it's Star Wars, Fallout, Neverwinter Nights, etc. I tried playing Alpha Protocol, and while I could definitely see the Obsidian magic in the story and the dialogue, the gameplay in that game is simply too bad for me to play. I think they just need someone else to supply them with X amount of the work for a game so that they can do a great job on Y amount. They just seem to fall flat when they have to handle it all. Maybe it's that they try to make every area complex and polished and run out of time, maybe they are bad at managing the budgets for their games, I don't know.
I doubt that argument. 1 game of 7 does not make a pattern. Especially if said game had a particulary troubled development cycle.
Well, since they became Obsidian, they've developed KotOR 2, NWN2, FO:NV, Dungeon Siege 3, South Park, and Alpha Protocol. They've a history of not quite getting it right even with other IPs a few times, and when given the chance to do all of it themselves they fell flat hardcore and made a pretty bad game.
I'm not here to say every original IP they tried to make would be bad. I have a lot of hope for Pillars of Eternity for instance.
Well, since they became Obsidian, they've developed KotOR 2, NWN2, FO:NV, Dungeon Siege 3, South Park, and Alpha Protocol. They've a history of not quite getting it right even with other IPs a few times, and when given the chance to do all of it themselves they fell flat hardcore and made a pretty bad game.
I'm not here to say every original IP they tried to make would be bad. I have a lot of hope for Pillars of Eternity for instance.
Remember, Alpha Protocol already became a thing in 2005/2006 when they were still struggeling wth a new fast-growing studio and the challenges that presents. It was also as you said their first original IP AS WELL AS their first time to make a rpg/shooter hybrid. These presented a completly different approach to game development. One they weren't AT ALL accustomed with. Leading to 3 different iterations of the game.
The final version of Alpha Protocol was a Frankenstein monster made in a bit over a year.
There's tons of reasons AP ended up the way it did, but saying its because they have simply trouble with their own IP's is simplyfing the situation.
If this game still has the standard Obsidian level of bugs, even after having all this time to polish things up, I fear there might be blood in the water.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
If this game still has the standard Obsidian level of bugs, even after having all this time to polish things up, I fear there might be blood in the water.
They haven't been especially buggy in the recent games, so I dunno what you consider a standard level of bugginess.
How happy does South Park: The Stick of Truth make me? Put it this way: I played it for two-and-a-half hours and didn’t even complete the first main story quest you’re given. Instead, I giddily wandered through the streets of the quirky Colorado mountain town as my custom-created “new kid,” talking to everyone I met, entering every house and building I could, and searching every nook and cranny for loot. And I didn’t even finish exploring. Not even close.
Every corner of this turn-based, Paper Mario-esque role-playing game is filled with fan service. Go upstairs at Cartman’s house, wander into our favorite fat-ass’s bedroom, open his closet door, and you’re faced with what is almost literally a treasure trove of references to classic episodes: the Awesome-O suit, a Faith +1 platinum album, the Coon costume, the Beefcake t-shirt, etc.
But the fan service isn’t limited to the occasional closet. Every bit of loot -- assigned a cash value so you can buy new weapons and items -- is contextually funny. Cartman’s bathroom has packets of Sea People, Cartman’s mom’s dresser drawers contain sex toys of various shapes, sizes, and colors, Father Maxi’s office desk holds a “boy-sized leash,” etc. I combed and examined everything I could without regard for the main story, and hilariously, the game even playfully chastised me for not making any critical path progress. At one point, party member Butters (you’ll eventually unlock other South Park kids to have in your two-person group) told me, “Seriously, we’re supposed to be playing the game, not just running around town.” The joke, of course, being the “game” is both a reference to the kids’ imaginative LARP-ing and the video game you’re actually playing.
...
I bit the bullet once during a brush-up with a herd of horse-riding Mongorians [sic] and, yep, another reference awaited me at the Game Over screen, as I found myself at Heaven’s pearly gates, greeted by a group of smiling Mormons. Collectibles abound, too, such as Chinpokomon.
If this game still has the standard Obsidian level of bugs, even after having all this time to polish things up, I fear there might be blood in the water.
They haven't been especially buggy in the recent games, so I dunno what you consider a standard level of bugginess.
What's recent? Their last three games were Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, and Dungeon Siege III. AP was interesting and FONV was good (I have zero interest in Dungeon-Siege-in-name-only), but both were among the buggier games I've played.
How happy does South Park: The Stick of Truth make me? Put it this way: I played it for two-and-a-half hours and didn’t even complete the first main story quest you’re given. Instead, I giddily wandered through the streets of the quirky Colorado mountain town as my custom-created “new kid,” talking to everyone I met, entering every house and building I could, and searching every nook and cranny for loot. And I didn’t even finish exploring. Not even close.
Every corner of this turn-based, Paper Mario-esque role-playing game is filled with fan service. Go upstairs at Cartman’s house, wander into our favorite fat-ass’s bedroom, open his closet door, and you’re faced with what is almost literally a treasure trove of references to classic episodes: the Awesome-O suit, a Faith +1 platinum album, the Coon costume, the Beefcake t-shirt, etc.
But the fan service isn’t limited to the occasional closet. Every bit of loot -- assigned a cash value so you can buy new weapons and items -- is contextually funny. Cartman’s bathroom has packets of Sea People, Cartman’s mom’s dresser drawers contain sex toys of various shapes, sizes, and colors, Father Maxi’s office desk holds a “boy-sized leash,” etc. I combed and examined everything I could without regard for the main story, and hilariously, the game even playfully chastised me for not making any critical path progress. At one point, party member Butters (you’ll eventually unlock other South Park kids to have in your two-person group) told me, “Seriously, we’re supposed to be playing the game, not just running around town.” The joke, of course, being the “game” is both a reference to the kids’ imaginative LARP-ing and the video game you’re actually playing.
...
I bit the bullet once during a brush-up with a herd of horse-riding Mongorians [sic] and, yep, another reference awaited me at the Game Over screen, as I found myself at Heaven’s pearly gates, greeted by a group of smiling Mormons. Collectibles abound, too, such as Chinpokomon.
FONV was indeed pretty buggy. I don't know that it was any buggier than FO3 was, though.
From what I understand, a lot of the bugs in FONV were basically legacy of FO3, and they actually fixed a bunch of stuff for NV. I don't really know, since I've always had an unusually good luck with Obsidian titles in that I've encountered very few bugs.
Forget about New Vegas and Alpha Protocol. Obsidian made Dungeon Siege 3 with their own game engine, the game was not buggy and South Park is made with the same engine.
Yeah, relying on a Bethesda engine to not be buggy is... ha.
Obsidian's problem has generally been too much scope for time and not enough time for good testing. Ubi forced that this time, so my hopes are high. Even if it is buggy, at least the writing will be good.
If this game still has the standard Obsidian level of bugs, even after having all this time to polish things up, I fear there might be blood in the water.
They haven't been especially buggy in the recent games, so I dunno what you consider a standard level of bugginess.
What's recent? Their last three games were Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, and Dungeon Siege III. AP was interesting and FONV was good (I have zero interest in Dungeon-Siege-in-name-only), but both were among the buggier games I've played.
More like they changed their approach since 2010 . DSIII was the only game really released in that period (Which wasn't made on the bugfest called Gamebryo)
Ofc, it's too early to scream change, but thats probably what Rhan meant.
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really torn on this because I love Obsidian's games but I don't really care about South Park.
If this game still has the standard Obsidian level of bugs, even after having all this time to polish things up, I fear there might be blood in the water.
They haven't been especially buggy in the recent games, so I dunno what you consider a standard level of bugginess.
What's recent? Their last three games were Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, and Dungeon Siege III. AP was interesting and FONV was good (I have zero interest in Dungeon-Siege-in-name-only), but both were among the buggier games I've played.
More like they changed their approach since 2010 . DSIII was the only game really released in that period (Which wasn't made on the bugfest called Gamebryo)
Ofc, it's too early to scream change, but thats probably what Rhan meant.
If two or three games is sufficient to establish a trend of bugginess, one or two games is enough to establish a change.
I'm just tired of always running into the old "Obsidian LOL bugs" sentiment, usually based on one or two games. I could just as well start expecting all Valve games to be buggy pieces of shit simply because I had a horrid experience with Half-Life.
Much prefer to actually play games with zero expectations. Or as close to it as I can consciously make myself.
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That's why we love him.
But it had some pretty slick writing (for a pulp spy movie, in the vein of mission impossible). Another thing I liked about it was the timed dialog choices so that the conversations flowed like normal speech back and forth. It was kind of a mini-game to choose in the heat of an argument to escalate it for vindictive justice, or diffuse it for the info that you needed. It wasn't stilted to let the player spend 5minutes to ponder over the 'best' choice they had in each reply.
It may not seem revolutionary, but I dont remember games before Alpha Protocol using timed dialogue.
And then the Walking Dead Season 1 used it to *great* effect.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
I am guilty of finishing it 3 times.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
The two missions are both too long and railroady, with almost no player impact. The last mission also has 2 really tedious bosses.
The shooting mechanics aren't that bad but they aren't emphasized by the game. To shoot someone you need to stabilise your shot. The size of your crosshair drastically impact your shotcone. Cover and skills trump fast hitscan for headshots.
Its stealth implementation is ok but suffers from complexity which always ends with wonky results.
A strange problem it has is that much of the choice impact you make isn't clear until a second playthrough because it is woven into the story too well. The amount of diversity is staggering.
I started talking about Sis and he just gave me a blank look, turns out there were entire characters who were fairly major in my game that didn't turn up in his playthough due to choices he had made.
Either way, really looking forward to South Park
Bravely Default / 3DS Friend Code = 3394-3571-1609
That's kind of a strike against Obsidian for the masses, as many people just don't realise that some of the different variations are even there.
Bioware keep it... well, maybe not 'simpler', but more obvious when your choices have a certain effect. Just some extra dialogue that makes it clearer.
Do we know if TSOT is going to have multiple outcomes? That doesn't seem especially South Park-y.
It was really well done so long as you didn't look behind that curtain, but in most cases it was the illusion of choice.
Bravely Default / 3DS Friend Code = 3394-3571-1609
In terms of AAA budget games, I agree. But this year alone I'm going to be playing Hotline Miami 2, Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Shovel Knight, and who knows how many other indie games that are exactly what the creators wanted to make. There's plenty of artistic integrity in video games. Honestly even among blockbuster games Stick of Truth is not the only example I could point to.
Yeah, I wish we could have gotten a game like that which was more "adventure" and less "clumsy ARPG", because the story branching and dialogue stuff was super cool.
In some ways South Park is actually the fixed successor to AP's *gameplay* (as in combat/exploration) here. More focus on adventure mechanics as well as a better focus on combat.
The thing i'm optimistic about too is that Obsidian is always better when working with someone else's material, whether it's Star Wars, Fallout, Neverwinter Nights, etc. I tried playing Alpha Protocol, and while I could definitely see the Obsidian magic in the story and the dialogue, the gameplay in that game is simply too bad for me to play. I think they just need someone else to supply them with X amount of the work for a game so that they can do a great job on Y amount. They just seem to fall flat when they have to handle it all. Maybe it's that they try to make every area complex and polished and run out of time, maybe they are bad at managing the budgets for their games, I don't know.
All I know is Stick of Truth looks good as hell.
I doubt that argument. 1 game of 7 does not make a pattern. Especially if said game had a particulary troubled development cycle.
I'm not here to say every original IP they tried to make would be bad. I have a lot of hope for Pillars of Eternity for instance.
Remember, Alpha Protocol already became a thing in 2005/2006 when they were still struggeling wth a new fast-growing studio and the challenges that presents. It was also as you said their first original IP AS WELL AS their first time to make a rpg/shooter hybrid. These presented a completly different approach to game development. One they weren't AT ALL accustomed with. Leading to 3 different iterations of the game.
The final version of Alpha Protocol was a Frankenstein monster made in a bit over a year.
There's tons of reasons AP ended up the way it did, but saying its because they have simply trouble with their own IP's is simplyfing the situation.
They haven't been especially buggy in the recent games, so I dunno what you consider a standard level of bugginess.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/14/could-south-park-the-stick-of-truth-be-the-best-licensed-game-ever
This game sounds fucking fantastic.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Oh my god. I'm going to be wandering the town doing mindless stuff forever.
From what I understand, a lot of the bugs in FONV were basically legacy of FO3, and they actually fixed a bunch of stuff for NV. I don't really know, since I've always had an unusually good luck with Obsidian titles in that I've encountered very few bugs.
Obsidian's problem has generally been too much scope for time and not enough time for good testing. Ubi forced that this time, so my hopes are high. Even if it is buggy, at least the writing will be good.
So you've only seen like half of the scenes then?
More like they changed their approach since 2010 . DSIII was the only game really released in that period (Which wasn't made on the bugfest called Gamebryo)
Ofc, it's too early to scream change, but thats probably what Rhan meant.
If two or three games is sufficient to establish a trend of bugginess, one or two games is enough to establish a change.
I'm just tired of always running into the old "Obsidian LOL bugs" sentiment, usually based on one or two games. I could just as well start expecting all Valve games to be buggy pieces of shit simply because I had a horrid experience with Half-Life.
Much prefer to actually play games with zero expectations. Or as close to it as I can consciously make myself.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
...........
(I liked South Park 64)
2 charachters in combat and field
Buddies/Companions are
Cartman
Kenny
Butters
Stan
Kyle
Jimmy
I'm sure there will be some way to switch.
Never change, homie. Never ever change.