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[SW:TOR] Tanks like spanking.

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Posts

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Think I've finally settled on my final Immortal spec:

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcurrouRZhRM.1

    As I've played the game, I've gone through a couple of iterations of that, but I think I am settled on that one. Couple of highlights:

    2/2: Dreadnought - I find 6% strength to add quite a bit of DPS/threat to the build. Obviously with no combat logs, it's empirical, but it feels better. This talent also scales well with gear, for obvious reasons.

    1/3: Accuracy - Some people will 3/3 this, I just don't see the need. In defense/shield/absorb heavy gear, I still have ~2.5% accuracy from enhancements, with this I have 93.5%...I don't miss often, and I almost don't notice when I do. I'd rather spend these points on sure fire damage when I do hit (see above).

    1/3: Battle Cry - I just don't see the need to max this. With Revenge later in the tree, you're already getting greatly reduced Force Scream and Smash costs. I love Force Scream, and I love Sonic Barrier, but this is just not something I find myself pining for. If I didn't have to put a point in it, I might skip it entirely.

    I also skipped Crash. I found it useful for various leveling situations, but after tanking several dungeons at 50, I just didn't find the utility in it. If I were to get it back, I'd probably drop my 1/3 Accuracy to get it. The stun is so short that in a full group situation, it's not buying me a whole lot (especially when I have a better stun in Backhand). This is probably the most soul searching I had to do with the build...and it's a decision I may waffle on a couple of times.

    And BioWare really needs to add dual spec. I'd love to work on a Vengeance off spec for dailies and such, but I'm not going to respec 15 times a week to do it.

    e: Also, at 50, I finally have my bars the way I want them...having to figure out how to squeeze Intercede in there was...sketchy, to say the least. I had already replaced Slash with Sweeping Slash...I've already bound random stuff (like the execute) to random mouse buttons + modifiers...

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Question: why shield chance & absorption over defense? Better returns per point or is there a vanguard-specific bonus to it? I've noticed that absorption seems to scale crazy high compared to anything else.

    Currently level 42 guardian and have been focusing on defense (then again, it does proc riposte more often) with 22% defense (28% with riposte up), 31% shield chance & 25% absorption. Should I be lowering defense chance in favour of the others?

    Aegis on
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Aegis wrote:
    Question: why shield chance & absorption over defense? Better returns per point or is there a vanguard-specific bonus to it? I've noticed that absorption seems to scale crazy high compared to anything else.

    Currently level 42 guardian and have been focusing on defense (then again, it does proc riposte more often) with 22% defense (28% with riposte up), 31% shield chance & 25% absorption. Should I be lowering defense chance in favour of the others?

    For Guards/Juggs, I haven't ready anywhere that we should be favoring one over the other? Even if someone were to imply it, it would be a total guess, as we have no combat log and no good simulators yet...for now I am trying to strike a nice balance between DR, SR, AB and END. Until we fully understand diminishing returns and either have detailed combat log parsers, or a really good Rawr style app, it's all guessing based on empirical information.

    My "MMO sense" tells me that the shield stats will be important for creating a nice smooth damage curve, but that balancing with a decent amount of DR to lower overall incoming damage will be important. Think WoW Cata Warriors, where stacking Mastery is your primary concern (for blocking, because it smooths your damage curve), but keeping Parry and Dodge up are very important as well. What the final stat weights are will be heavily influenced by diminishing returns.

    e: For Vanguards, they like shield because I believe a lot of their talents proc from it...while most of our defensive procs are DR procs.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Without combat logs, stat weight is much more difficult to determine. At a glance, shield chance/aborb seems like it'll be better for the same reason block is better for WoW shield classes than straight dodge or parry. But, at the same time, TOR seems much less bursty than WoW, though this may change later on.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote:
    Think I've finally settled on my final Immortal spec:

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcurrouRZhRM.1

    You have the same spec as me, other than you skipped 2% accuracy for 15 seconds off the CD of force push and AoE taunt. I wouldn't do it, but whatever. It's pretty much as cookie cutter as you can get with a full immortal/defense build. There's really no other way to do it that would be as ideal.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    GnomeTank wrote:
    Aegis wrote:
    Question: why shield chance & absorption over defense? Better returns per point or is there a vanguard-specific bonus to it? I've noticed that absorption seems to scale crazy high compared to anything else.

    Currently level 42 guardian and have been focusing on defense (then again, it does proc riposte more often) with 22% defense (28% with riposte up), 31% shield chance & 25% absorption. Should I be lowering defense chance in favour of the others?

    e: For Vanguards, they like shield because I believe a lot of their talents proc from it...while most of our defensive procs are DR procs.

    Pretty much, our tank tree gives us Powertechs/Vanguards (in relation to skills tied to shields)

    An extra 12% total chance for a shield proc
    An extra 6% to damage absorbtion when the shield procs
    A 50% chance to drop 8 heat/regen a cell every 6 seconds when the shield procs
    ...and a 50% chance to refresh the coldown of Rocket Punch/Stock Strike every 4.5 secs when the shield procs(note that RP/SS, with the right skills, will have an extra 30% chance to crit, do an extra 30% damage when it crits always proc our Ion Gas Cylinder/Ion Cell, which is another ~200 damage at 40 plus a dot and short snare)

    While the last one is good, the 3rd on is the biggie: the extra effective (and not tied to heat/cell levels) regen means I almost never have any trouble maintaining my heat levels, and with the final ability in the tree do pretty much the same ting every 15 seconds, along with doing damage, I always have the... coolness?... to do whatever I need.

    So yes, we like it when our shields proc often.

    Foefaller on
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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Joshmvii wrote:
    GnomeTank wrote:
    Think I've finally settled on my final Immortal spec:

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcurrouRZhRM.1

    You have the same spec as me, other than you skipped 2% accuracy for 15 seconds off the CD of force push and AoE taunt. I wouldn't do it, but whatever. It's pretty much as cookie cutter as you can get with a full immortal/defense build. There's really no other way to do it that would be as ideal.

    You say that, but I actually considered some pretty crazy specs, like a maximum Sonic Barrier up time spec that was a Ven/Immortal hybrid :P

    e: See? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrZhGRMMh.1 -- Maximum Sonic Barrier uptime, with a very powerful Force Scream...but you give up too much to get it...still interesting that the build is possible.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Oh, I know there are those hybrid builds, including the one that goes deep enough into Ven/Vig to get the one that makes Guardian leap apply its effect to you as well. I just meant going full Immortal/Defense is pretty static. There just isn't much you can do with the extra points. I've seen some people go into the 3rd tree for the crit and the 10% heal on Resolute, but I just think it's terrible compared to 6% strength, 3% accuracy, etc.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    GnomeTank wrote:
    You say that, but I actually considered some pretty crazy specs, like a maximum Sonic Barrier up time spec that was a Ven/Immortal hybrid :P

    e: See? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrZhGRMMh.1 -- Maximum Sonic Barrier uptime, with a very powerful Force Scream...but you give up too much to get it...still interesting that the build is possible.

    This is what I've been raiding with: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frG0uMrkzMZhGM0M.1

    I wouldn't change a single point in it.

    Sonic barrier is an absolute must, when a boss has an attack that you can't interrupt you time your sonic screams before it. Big time mitigation there. It would be nice to get the reduced c/d on it, but that would mean losing backhand and its a very useful ability.

    Unstoppable is very very useful, as a jugg you need to be mobile because you lack AOE threat. Leaping during a fight is done all the time, and CC immunity plus 20% reduced damage makes you much more effective than going to the top of immortal for crushing blow. Mobs in the operations do use CC on you, more so in Karagga's Palace, being immune to CC with the unstoppable perk after leaping is highly useful. Constant target swapping to apply unchanneled choke, backhand, force push, then continue to keep threat on the main target... a lot easier when your force leap is buffed like that.

    Also 100% rage free chilling screams, I wouldn't have it any other way in the EV and KP operations I've tanked. Its not merely a PVP talent, plenty of melee mobs in operations and hard modes that its useful on.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Here's where I stand right now at 42: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101rMGbuMrouRZ0M.1

    Good for levelling because I'm impatient and want reduced cooldowns on my fun abilities but I think ultimately I'm going to switch over to getting Unstoppable when I hit 50. Crushing Blow is fun and all, seeing a chunk of HP just vanish but utility tends to win the day.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Here's where I stand right now at 42: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101rMGbuMrouRZ0M.1

    Good for levelling because I'm impatient and want reduced cooldowns on my fun abilities but I think ultimately I'm going to switch over to getting Unstoppable when I hit 50. Crushing Blow is fun and all, seeing a chunk of HP just vanish but utility tends to win the day.

    If I ever run into the problem of losing single target threat to a DPS I might look into crushing blow. Of course if a DPS decides to unload on a mob that I merely was keeping aggro on over the healer, then its going to him for being stupid.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I've been thinking about it and I'm still against the addition of combat logs. I like how it is now where it's binary and shit works or it doesn't. In situations like this you have the good players that manage in spite of a handicap because they don't even know they have it. There's no 'you're not specced X. GTFO'.

    The only thing I really want is something on the nameplates that says 'this fucker is attacking YOU' because with ranged mobs it can be difficult to tell.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    I'm starting to think I have no idea what a tank is supposed to be doing. I don't have any tools for AoE threat, and I hate hate HATE trying to target specific enemies when shit is running everywhere and explosions and the camera needs to zoom farther back and I'm getting claustrophobic and oh shit the healer got knocked into the pit.

    If I want a single mob to stick to me, I can do that. I generally just open with a Shadow Strike if I can, throw on a Mind Crush, then just alternate using Project and Double Strike, spamming Saber Strike when I'm waiting on energy regen, and refresh Mind Crush when it's up. Mind Control for quick taunt.

    I don't usually bother with the stun, since it never works on anything I'd want to stun.

  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Did you tank in WoW. Specifically did you tank during the WOTLK LFD period where it was just:

    1. queue in
    2. AOE
    3. Lewtz!

    Because that mindset can be rough to break. It's at its worst for me, coming from a protection Paladin with all the AOE threat goodies.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Not really. I was mostly DPS (frost mage 4 life), never got a tank class past, oh, 20ish. Also, I quit in BC.

    *edit* To expand, I'm looking at the buttons on my hotbars and the mobs on the field, and I'm not seeing how I'm supposed to organize this chaos.

    Houn on
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Houn wrote:
    I'm starting to think I have no idea what a tank is supposed to be doing. I don't have any tools for AoE threat, and I hate hate HATE trying to target specific enemies when shit is running everywhere and explosions and the camera needs to zoom farther back and I'm getting claustrophobic and oh shit the healer got knocked into the pit.

    If I want a single mob to stick to me, I can do that. I generally just open with a Shadow Strike if I can, throw on a Mind Crush, then just alternate using Project and Double Strike, spamming Saber Strike when I'm waiting on energy regen, and refresh Mind Crush when it's up. Mind Control for quick taunt.

    I don't usually bother with the stun, since it never works on anything I'd want to stun.

    Your sig says you're 14, but I know those don't update instantly. Are you still in the 20s or so? Because I've heard several times that Shadows/Assassins take a while before they get the tools they're looking for.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Shadow's don't get aoe hit moves till 30/40. Also as a tank you have to think of your role in a group is less kill the mob than keep them hating you, to that end you are basically playing tag with everything and really shouldn't focus single target unless its a boss.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    I'm 17 atm. This frustration is entirely due to the Hammerhead Station boss.

    In talking to my party today, evidently the healer was having trouble keeping me alive, and the adds he spawn kept going straight for her. I'm going to file this under "need better gear/levels", but I haven't seen anything better than what I've got yet.

    Well, I guess the Coruscant Commendation vender sells mods/armor parts that prioritize End over Will, and what I'm wearing is Will over End, but we're talking a handful of points here.

  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    Tanking right now (JK mid-30s) reminds me a lot of Vanilla WoW warrior tanking, which sounds like it should be awful, but strangely it's not. I find myself tabbing between targets often, leaping around, using a lot of taunts ... which I kind of hated in WoW, but I'm loving here. Maybe I just got tired of standing stoically still and just running through a rotation with little real need for situational awareness. TOR's making me focus and actually play, and I'm liking it.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Its still low level, on top of gear/levels being an issue, your healer also lacks a lot of their stuff as well. And in that fight your dps should really peel off the boss to deal with the adds it shouldn't be all on you to tank everything.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Ugh, I wish there was a way to look at your gear and stats online. WoW armory spoiled me.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Also and this might seem silly, but do you have a shield equipped or just a focus?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    A shield.

    Sig updated. I'll get stats when I get home tonight, I guess.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Houn we don't really need your stats bro, just know its early on, both you and the healer don't have your full tool kit yet and to work on leveling and getting commendation gear/mods.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    What commendation gear? I was looking at the Coruscant mod vendor last night, and I'm already using mods on par with what he was selling, unless I want to swap my 8Will 6End mods for 8End 6Will.

  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    Houn, out of curiousity, what class was your healer? My wife had a lot of frustration with Sage healing until she hit the 30's.

    I agree with Preacher, it could be a situation where neither of you really has what you need to be perfectly comfortable yet.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Houn wrote:
    What commendation gear? I was looking at the Coruscant mod vendor last night, and I'm already using mods on par with what he was selling, unless I want to swap my 8Will 6End mods for 8End 6Will.

    Well make sure you Hilt is upgraded max obviously, and then check the equipment vendor to see if they have any upgrades. Outside of that just keep leveling, doing quests, and moving on. Hammer station is the first real instance in the game, your problems are like a tank reevaluating their choice after having a sub par deadmines run, in the end it does not matter!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    There's an experience element to tanking that will just come with time, Houn. Kind of like the first time you run an instance or do a space mission, and you're not sure where things are gonna come from, which ones are the biggest threat, etc.

    When you're learning to tank with your class, or learning to play any new spec/class, you're feeling your way thru which abilities to chain together, which ones to use in reaction to certain conditions, how to position yourself, and all that. Just like you had to learn when to frost nova, cone of cold, ice block, and all that other stuff on your mage, you'll get the feel for shadow abilities and once you do you'll be able to pay more attention to things like "am I standing in fire" and "oh, someone else has agro on another group."

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    @Arryn 22 Sage healer. She states she was simply having issue keeping up with the damage I was taking, which would be partially my gear, and partially that I'm not deep enough in the skill tree to get some of the self-healing going to mitigate.

    @Preacher It matters because I want to kick that grenade-tossing dickface boss off a cliff. Gettin' mad 'bout vidja games.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Houn wrote:
    I'm 17 atm. This frustration is entirely due to the Hammerhead Station boss.

    In talking to my party today, evidently the healer was having trouble keeping me alive, and the adds he spawn kept going straight for her. I'm going to file this under "need better gear/levels", but I haven't seen anything better than what I've got yet.

    Well, I guess the Coruscant Commendation vender sells mods/armor parts that prioritize End over Will, and what I'm wearing is Will over End, but we're talking a handful of points here.

    The final boss in hammer station?

    You should be fine at 17. You need to actually go stop the adds from attacking the healer, you get your AOE knockback at level 2 or 3... so you should have no reason to not be using that when the adds spawn. Of course the adds are going to go after the healer first if you dont prevent that, its your job to actively stop that from happening, no gear or levels will make you magically react to picking up adds... just practice, hopefully you have a lot of hotkeys setup too cause you will need it.

    Better gear and levels will not help you if you are trying to single target tank the boss while ignoring the adds. If the healer said you are to hard to heal, its because you are getting hit by the motion mines he drops. Stop getting hit by them. The only thing better gear and levels will do for you is make the fight to easy and you wont learn anything about tanking.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    I actually thought I was doing a pretty good job of avoiding them.

  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    Not to detract from the jedi slant in the thread, but here's what I'm thinking for a 50 powertech tanking build:
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdorogzZMsbZb.1

    There's a couple of controversial decisions in there I wanted feedback on:
    8% Rocket Punch damage vs 3% Endurance: 3% End seems pretty minimal at this stage (600 hp max or so), while bigger health pools are always better, this seemed like a good tradeoff since it also frees up a point for 8% more damage on ion cylinder.
    6% to all flame damage vs 6% to rail shot: I keep going back and forth on this; there's a lot more flame effects so it seems like more bang for the buck for the first, but with pretty much having to take the 60% armor pen on rail shot, it seems like that could synergize well.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 3DS: 5000-2906-6782 Switch: 3304-2356-9421
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Houn wrote:
    I actually thought I was doing a pretty good job of avoiding them.

    You might be, I will say they can be buggy as shit and you wont see them after a while... at least the red marker will go away.

    Even so it just sounds like you aren't actively picking up the two adds when they come. Use your AOE knockback on them, problem solved.

    If there are TONS of adds coming, like 4 at a time and more frequent than you think they should... its bugged and you should reset the instance from the outside... I've seen it happen before.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    I'll admit, I wasn't using my knockback; it's sort of one of my "forgotten skills" that is on my hotbar but never used. I didn't think it'd do enough damage/threat to grab their attention, and was instead trying to weave in Force Breach to hit them all.

    I might have to talk to the healer about staying close to me when the adds show up so I can AoE them better to get them stuck on me.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote:
    GnomeTank wrote:
    You say that, but I actually considered some pretty crazy specs, like a maximum Sonic Barrier up time spec that was a Ven/Immortal hybrid :P

    e: See? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101dMGcubrZhGRMMh.1 -- Maximum Sonic Barrier uptime, with a very powerful Force Scream...but you give up too much to get it...still interesting that the build is possible.

    This is what I've been raiding with: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101frG0uMrkzMZhGM0M.1

    I wouldn't change a single point in it.

    Sonic barrier is an absolute must, when a boss has an attack that you can't interrupt you time your sonic screams before it. Big time mitigation there. It would be nice to get the reduced c/d on it, but that would mean losing backhand and its a very useful ability.

    Unstoppable is very very useful, as a jugg you need to be mobile because you lack AOE threat. Leaping during a fight is done all the time, and CC immunity plus 20% reduced damage makes you much more effective than going to the top of immortal for crushing blow. Mobs in the operations do use CC on you, more so in Karagga's Palace, being immune to CC with the unstoppable perk after leaping is highly useful. Constant target swapping to apply unchanneled choke, backhand, force push, then continue to keep threat on the main target... a lot easier when your force leap is buffed like that.

    Also 100% rage free chilling screams, I wouldn't have it any other way in the EV and KP operations I've tanked. Its not merely a PVP talent, plenty of melee mobs in operations and hard modes that its useful on.

    Well, if it works for you, that's what matters...for my play style, you've given up way too much to get Unstoppable. No Revenge, no Heavy Handed, no Sweeping Fury, no Crushing Blow. You gave up all that to get 4s of reduced damage after a Force Charge. Crushing Blow is probably enough for me personally not to do it, because CB is an important part of my rotation.

    It is nice that the system seems to support quite a few different viable specs though.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    eMoander wrote:
    6% to all flame damage vs 6% to rail shot: I keep going back and forth on this; there's a lot more flame effects so it seems like more bang for the buck for the first, but with pretty much having to take the 60% armor pen on rail shot, it seems like that could synergize well.

    I may be misremembering this, but aren't a lot of the BH Threat builders tied to flame effects? So in this case you'd be trading threat for more dps?

    I played a BH awhile back in beta, but my release one hasn't made it off Nal Hutta, so I could be wrong.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Arryn wrote:
    eMoander wrote:
    6% to all flame damage vs 6% to rail shot: I keep going back and forth on this; there's a lot more flame effects so it seems like more bang for the buck for the first, but with pretty much having to take the 60% armor pen on rail shot, it seems like that could synergize well.

    I may be misremembering this, but aren't a lot of the BH Threat builders tied to flame effects? So in this case you'd be trading threat for more dps?

    I played a BH awhile back in beta, but my release one hasn't made it off Nal Hutta, so I could be wrong.

    DPS is threat in this game. There are very few direct "adds additional threat" attacks. I think as a Juggernaut, I have two. The rest of my threat is through being in my tank stance and doing DPS.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Houn wrote:
    I'm 17 atm. This frustration is entirely due to the Hammerhead Station boss.

    In talking to my party today, evidently the healer was having trouble keeping me alive, and the adds he spawn kept going straight for her. I'm going to file this under "need better gear/levels", but I haven't seen anything better than what I've got yet.

    I addressed this in the main chat thread and the healing thread, but I'll talk about it here, as well.

    First, this is the first boss that really requires the party to do stuff together. So, from that perspective, it's difficult, but it is in no way a "gear check" encounter. The first time I made it through with friends from the Rigorous Scholars, we were all around 17th level, and we sailed through this fight. The second time, we were in our 20s, and had a harder time than the first (because we didn't work the strategy ... initially).

    Second, in this particular fight, you'll notice that when the boss summons his friends, he summons 2 normal enemies. You have 2 DPS members who have been killing normal enemies for ~17 levels now. This is not a coincidence. This fight is trying to teach you something (see my post in the healing thread about how I think it could be taught better, if you want). It's trying to teach you: 1) stay out of the grenades' AoE markers, 2) DPSers need to pick up and burn down the adds, 3) even if they don't immediately burn them down, that's okay, 4) watch out for the boss's knockback ability (because being pushed into the asteroid cannon will ruin anyone's day), and 5) make sure the boss's cone-of-fire attack isn't aimed at the rest of the party.

    Succinctly, compared to other games, your DPSers and even your healer are way, way, way less squishy. It's okay for a DPS player, and even the healer, to pick up a standard enemy at practically any time, and for them to pick up even Strong enemies for short periods. As the tank in this fight, it's your job to keep the boss focused on you, keep yourself where you won't get knocked into the cannon when he does his AoE pushback, and keep his blaster barrage aimed away from everyone else. Let the adds go hang; you don't need to deal with them.

    Instead, when the adds show up, they are going to make a beeline for the healer (because healing is, essentially, an AoE threat producer). It is the job of the two DPS members of your party to each pick an add and destroy it, while simultaneously staying out of the grenades. As a Scoundrel healer, I could do a decent job putting down one of the adds if the two DPSers focused on the same one. The main danger here is that, because of the way mouse-over healing works (i.e., it doesn't), switching targets back and forth between the normal enemy eating my face and the tank / DPS who needs healing is tricky and introduces more opportunity for error or slowdown. C'est la vie.

    So, don't be hard on yourself because you weren't able to pick up the adds in this fight. You aren't supposed to, and it even works better if you don't! :)

    EDIT: it should go without saying that I completely disagree with Badwrong about this.

    Elvenshae on
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    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • CubemonkeyCubemonkey Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Out of curiosity, would it be possible for a Vanguard to run around with a heavy Jedi Knight robe? They don't HAVE to wear trooper armor, right?
    Houn wrote:
    I'm 17 atm. This frustration is entirely due to the Hammerhead Station boss.

    In talking to my party today, evidently the healer was having trouble keeping me alive, and the adds he spawn kept going straight for her. I'm going to file this under "need better gear/levels", but I haven't seen anything better than what I've got yet.

    Well, I guess the Coruscant Commendation vender sells mods/armor parts that prioritize End over Will, and what I'm wearing is Will over End, but we're talking a handful of points here.

    The great lack of AoE taunt abilities really annoys me. It makes the skill difference between bad and good tanks very obvious.

    For example, when adds spawn I'm usually healing somebody in my group. That means auto aggro on me. If the tank has an AoE taunt, it's mostly ok. Since many tanks don't have an AoE taunt, at least up to level 35, the bad tanks don't know what to do and just keep attacking the main target. Good tanks will aggro one or all of them, if the DPS isn't on it.

    When I start leveling my Trooper alt, destined to be a vanguard, I will be the best damn tank I can be.

    Also, with regard to commendations, I've found them only to be good for grabbing orange gear, since I'm always over leveled.
    Arryn wrote:
    Houn, out of curiousity, what class was your healer? My wife had a lot of frustration with Sage healing until she hit the 30's.

    I agree with Preacher, it could be a situation where neither of you really has what you need to be perfectly comfortable yet.

    My sage was fine in the teens and all the way up to 35 so far. Early on, Force Armor, Rejuvenate, Benevolence, and Deliverence. These are all right next to each other on my healing bar. Gotta apply force armor before fights, and keep it up when possible. Also, the Force Potency ability gives two guaranteed crits and is a great "Oh Shit" button: Rejuvenate, Force Potency, Deliverance, Deliverance. For me, I think that combo is ~5k heal in 4-5 seconds.

    Equipment, really, is a huge deal. For her, I'd suggest ditching all crew skills and using the cash to keep equipment up to date. I didn't update my equip for a few levels, then went through and updated every single thing with mostly orange gear. My heals jumped 40%, and I was already healing fine in FPs.

    Same for tanks, keep those stats up. My sage can always tell when a tank isn't running with up to date equipment.

    Cubemonkey on
    Stahl - 50 Sage - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    GnomeTank wrote:
    Arryn wrote:
    eMoander wrote:
    6% to all flame damage vs 6% to rail shot: I keep going back and forth on this; there's a lot more flame effects so it seems like more bang for the buck for the first, but with pretty much having to take the 60% armor pen on rail shot, it seems like that could synergize well.

    I may be misremembering this, but aren't a lot of the BH Threat builders tied to flame effects? So in this case you'd be trading threat for more dps?

    I played a BH awhile back in beta, but my release one hasn't made it off Nal Hutta, so I could be wrong.

    DPS is threat in this game. There are very few direct "adds additional threat" attacks. I think as a Juggernaut, I have two. The rest of my threat is through being in my tank stance and doing DPS.
    Yeah, I don't think there are any increase threat talents for a BH (unless I'm blind), so maximizing dps seems like the way to go. Most of the aoe abilities are flame-based though, which seems like it will be very important for FPs.

    A related question: does anyone know if missile attacks count as flame damage? I would guess no, but explosions might be considered flame...

    eMoander on
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