[SW:TOR] Tanks like spanking.

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  • cassiusregicidecassiusregicide Registered User regular
    Really looking forward to flame sweep and jet charge. I use flame thrower occasionally as well when I can burn multiples or against bosses but I'm not sure how useful it is.

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    So, it seems to be around lvl 30 when you can't just pug the 4 man heroics to any degree of success.

    Insufferable Staff is pretty bad. People won't cc, won't follow marks, won't dps my target.

    Yep, definitely sticking to guild only runs for 4+.

    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Hey, you should all check out the light/dark side vendors at Fleet station. They have excellent tanking relics.

    I got this one as a random drop, but the ones on the vendors are only slightly worse.

    One minute cooldown, 20 seconds duration!

    tankytrinket.jpg

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • WolveSightWolveSight Registered User regular
    I have one with defense and another with shield rating. They can really help supplement the other "oh shit" abilities.

    253J736.png
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    If you buy two of the same relic, are each uses on separate cooldown or do they share a cooldown?

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
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    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Man, being a tank in pvp is so damn fun. Obviously, in warzones it's fun as hell with guard, taunts, and all that, but I found out just how beastly I am in a 1v1 last night. I'm on a PvE server, so I never get open world pvp, but I see a 33 Sith Sorc run past me on Alderaan with a yellow name flagged for PvP. I'm 34 so I think, yeah, let's see what happens. I jump him, and it's pretty much over before it even starts. Granted, this guy clearly wasn't a great pvper because he didn't even make a concerted effort to kite me, but god I wrecked his butt.

    I AoE snared him to try to get him to pop his trinket ability, then hilt strike for a 4 second stun, during which I unloaded master strike. Coming out of the stun I force stasis him(non channeled due to my talent) and unload blade storm and a couple slashes on him and it was good night. I did the KB with a force push, but if it hadn't killed him I had a leap ready too.

    Joshmvii on
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Aegis wrote:
    If you buy two of the same relic, are each uses on separate cooldown or do they share a cooldown?

    Nope, identical relics share cooldowns.

    Not sure if the different ranks of the same relics share, though.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rcrokrskdsZZf0cM.1

    That's my current build. Expertise and Mental Fortitude are both pretty terrible for their increases. Nerve Wracking I'm not sure about, it seems like a good boost, but long cooldowns on those skills and boss immunities make me think it's not worthwhile over say the Force Speed cooldown reduction which increases my survivability.

    Invisible on
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Invisible wrote:
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rcrokrskdsZZf0cM.1

    That's my current build. Expertise and Mental Fortitude are both pretty terrible for their increases. Nerve Wracking I'm not sure about, it seems like a good boost, but long cooldowns on those skills and boss immunities make me think it's not worthwhile over say the Force Speed cooldown reduction which increases my survivability.

    Yeah, Nerve Wracking looks like shit. +9% damage... on a two-second window. Hooray.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    Invisible wrote:
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rcrokrskdsZZf0cM.1

    That's my current build. Expertise and Mental Fortitude are both pretty terrible for their increases. Nerve Wracking I'm not sure about, it seems like a good boost, but long cooldowns on those skills and boss immunities make me think it's not worthwhile over say the Force Speed cooldown reduction which increases my survivability.

    Yeah, Nerve Wracking looks like shit. +9% damage... on a two-second window. Hooray.

    I'd think, out of three rather poor choices, Expertise is better than Mental Fortitude or Nerve Wracking, because while 9% (or 3, if you decide to put 1 point) extra damage for a proc isn't much, at least it's always a possiblity, unlike the extra damage when they're stunned, since the guys for whom you could really use it are almost always immune to it.

    steam_sig.png
  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's a shitty choice for that last point all the way around. At 37, Combat Technique's proc is 20 damage, but I suppose a .6 damage increase is better than one that's only up if I can stun them and only lasts 2 seconds.

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Invisible wrote:
    Yeah, it's a shitty choice for that last point all the way around. At 37, Combat Technique's proc is 20 damage, but I suppose a .6 damage increase is better than one that's only up if I can stun them and only lasts 2 seconds.

    Yeah, I'm honestly surprised this passed internal testing.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    my current build
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGzdoroM.1

    It's tanky - focused on being able to do well solo (which is why I went for aim rather than armor rating) and participate to the best of my abilities in flashpoints/whatever.
    my next points are going into the +shield until I can get those +shield top talents.

    having fun so far with vanguard tanking!
    In general i found the talent tree options rather underwhelming. a debuff of 4% for a few seconds? +1% shield? Ehhh

    Alegis on
  • BearrorristBearrorrist Registered User regular
    So, I had a question dealing with BH tanking, mostly I think due to PUG's. How many times have you been asked to not AoE? I believe it was due to the SI CCing a guy in the middle of the pack and complaining when my flame sweep broke it immediately. I think they were wanting me to tank whatever the sniper was shooting at currently. I tried getting grappling one mob out to get CC'd, which sometimes worked, and eventually just said goose and went mad with AoE. It worked, but my hp level was dodgy most of the time.

  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    If someone's cc isn't jiving with you as a tank, ya gotta speak up and say something to the effect of "USE YOUR CROWD CONTROL ON THAT ONE OVER THERE WHAT ISN'T RIGHT NEXT TO ALL THE OTHER ONES I HATE YOU SO MUCH RAAAAAAAAAA TANK IT YOURSELF JEEZE"

    It does get squirrely with all the ranged critters that don't much care to be moved around.

    Basil on
    9KmX8eN.jpg
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I don't pug with people, but the marks you can put on by right clicking the enemy portrait can be very helpful. Like, "Big lightning mark is sorc CC." Then you put it on the guy you want CCed.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Yeah, if someone keeps trying to use thier CC on some dude in the middle of everything, tell them to pick someone not in the way. If they say no, or keep doing it anyway, make it clear that it's in the party's best interest ot listen to the tank... :twisted:

    Foefaller on
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  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    Are you Juggs/Guardians or Sin/Shadows getting good returns as a PVP tank? And are you in tank or damage spec for it? Just interested in hearing more anecdotes since the official boards are full of QQ (for Jugg/Guardian mainly) and I'm trying to decide a melee class to roll. I'm a Warhammer veteran with an 80 Mara, rolled a few tanks while I was there but I always felt underappreciated and underutilized on tank.

    Tanks ended up being deluxe icing on a good group in War (mostly due to the penultimate cc they were eventually given that no one else got) but not essential to pull down big numbers out of the zerg/scs. They were ok as melee dps enablers due to guard but either you and a melee equaled the same job one hardcore ranged dps could be doing, or you idled by a healer in the back...neither job as effective as you'd want.

  • VaregaVarega Registered User regular
    Otaking wrote:
    Are you Juggs/Guardians or Sin/Shadows getting good returns as a PVP tank? And are you in tank or damage spec for it? Just interested in hearing more anecdotes since the official boards are full of QQ (for Jugg/Guardian mainly) and I'm trying to decide a melee class to roll. I'm a Warhammer veteran with an 80 Mara, rolled a few tanks while I was there but I always felt underappreciated and underutilized on tank.

    Tanks ended up being deluxe icing on a good group in War (mostly due to the penultimate cc they were eventually given that no one else got) but not essential to pull down big numbers out of the zerg/scs. They were ok as melee dps enablers due to guard but either you and a melee equaled the same job one hardcore ranged dps could be doing, or you idled by a healer in the back...neither job as effective as you'd want.

    I feel as though I'm 100% dependent on my team in pvp. I enable the capture and defense of objectives, but personally, I don't DO either. I shut down the CC early, and then dps them down. But if my team is awful (or I'm playing against 6 50s) I feel useless. I'm not a huge pvper though, just adding my two cents.

    League of Legends:Varega
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Otaking wrote:
    Are you Juggs/Guardians or Sin/Shadows getting good returns as a PVP tank? And are you in tank or damage spec for it? Just interested in hearing more anecdotes since the official boards are full of QQ (for Jugg/Guardian mainly) and I'm trying to decide a melee class to roll. I'm a Warhammer veteran with an 80 Mara, rolled a few tanks while I was there but I always felt underappreciated and underutilized on tank.

    Tanks ended up being deluxe icing on a good group in War (mostly due to the penultimate cc they were eventually given that no one else got) but not essential to pull down big numbers out of the zerg/scs. They were ok as melee dps enablers due to guard but either you and a melee equaled the same job one hardcore ranged dps could be doing, or you idled by a healer in the back...neither job as effective as you'd want.

    I love tanking in PVP... this game is no different.

    Huttball is your bitch, if people don't give it to you then they are stupid. No class carries the ball better due to leap and intercept. Half the time you dont even need heals because you can leap to enemies near the goal line from the bottom tiers. Speccing to include obliterate adds another gap closer too, but thats in a non-tank tree and really isn't needed.

    In the other WZ's you are one of those things that can't be ignored as it takes focus to kill you and if you are ignored you can peel a lot of damage and throw out CC to support your real hard hitters. I find when I premade with friends, they say they can absolutely unload on people because I'm keeping them busy.

    Currently though being 50 can be used to really distract people... they will totally ignore the actual objectives to chase you. Which makes for wins all the time.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote:

    In the other WZ's you are one of those things that can't be ignored as it takes focus to kill you and if you are ignored you can peel a lot of damage and throw out CC to support your real hard hitters. I find when I premade with friends, they say they can absolutely unload on people because I'm keeping them busy.

    Currently though being 50 can be used to really distract people... they will totally ignore the actual objectives to chase you. Which makes for wins all the time.

    Yeah Warhammer was like this too for tanks. The unfun part was that the scoring system didn't award points for this kind of stuff (more points were awarded for percentage of damage done to a kill, or heals to a wounded target) and thus, not as many points earned to buy gear with on tanks as easily. I know there is a protection stat now but how does that factor into medals earned?

    Also, which AC are you running?

  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    As a Sith Assassin, I find myself doing great in PvP battlegrounds. Not as good of a ball carrier as a Juggy, but with your force pull, your survivability, and your taunts you perform well. Assassins perform better in the other two battlegrounds, where they can use their AoE to prevent capping and survive a good long time against groups of people, especially with a healer. Just remember that taunting someone causes them to do 30% less damage to other targets, so make sure you use that + Guard together when you're rolling with other people. If you see someone with two lightsabers try to save your yank for after their initial charge, that way they're forced to run back. Unless they've specced for another one.

    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Otaking wrote:
    Yeah Warhammer was like this too for tanks. The unfun part was that the scoring system didn't award points for this kind of stuff (more points were awarded for percentage of damage done to a kill, or heals to a wounded target) and thus, not as many points earned to buy gear with on tanks as easily. I know there is a protection stat now but how does that factor into medals earned?

    Also, which AC are you running?

    Juggernaut.

    Points earned are different in this, to get gear you really just need to win and do the dailies/weekly. The MVP votes are stupid usually, because people either vote for friends or highest damage/healing.

    Not that highest damage/healing is bad... it just doesn't always mean the person was being useful.

    Sometimes I get no votes for MVP, even though I capped the ball 5 times or something. Or in voidstar I'll be the single person guarding one side, which is more important than everyone else endlessing clashing at the other door.... cause stealth caps are silly.

    Sometimes I get all the MVP votes though, just cause people see juggernaut ball carrier and know whats really going on.

    If anything the gearing system is a bit to quick IMO. This is my character already:

    13264575.png

    The gearing however can be mix matched with the mod system, and the only restriction with pvp gear is the armoring and expertise is part of the item for obvious reasons. Its a great filler before hard modes and raids as I haven't found better gear elsewhere.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I really need to start PVPing.

    Just the whole concept of Huttball makes me think of Warsong Gulch and that make me want to never play video games again ever.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I really need to start PVPing.

    Just the whole concept of Huttball makes me think of Warsong Gulch and that make me want to never play video games again ever.

    It also has a lot of the same problems as previous warsong gulch, like having one class be a completely broken flag carrier

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Guardian leveling is easy mode. I went defensive just to be able to tank when I get up there and man with all the stuns, the combo moves and shields you can really bring the pain to mobs. Hell if I bring out the healer companion I can't really die, even soloed the tier above an elite boss with the healer guy just rotating cooldowns and using med pecks to supplement. Took like 7 minutes, but felt awesome.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited December 2011
    I wish Shadows had something more to bring to the table like guardians do. Sure, I can stand there and not die just as well as a guardian, but other than that I really only have Force Yoink to distinguish me.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    I wish Shadows had something more to bring to the table like guardians do. Sure, I can stand there and not die just as well as a guardian, but other than that I really only have Force Yoink to distinguish me.

    I haven't tanked for a group yet other than running some heroics with my wife. One thing I could easily see being an issue is aoe threat generation. I have two moves for hitting multiples groups, and neither brings increased threat gen sadly.

    Also as a shadow how cool looking are your animations? Guardian ones are pretty bad ass, I just know I'll eventually play a shadow if only for darth maul style saberage.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Yeah I started bringing my dps companion just to speed things up a little, but I can solo champs/bosses with my healer companion out.

    Don't Shadows have CC?

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Preacher wrote:
    Also as a shadow how cool looking are your animations? Guardian ones are pretty bad ass, I just know I'll eventually play a shadow if only for darth maul style saberage.

    The killing blow for the basic attack has some pretty rocking ones.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Javen wrote:
    Don't Shadows have CC?

    There's a one-minute sap that works in stealth, but not on droids.

    One 4-second stun, one 2-second knockdown that may or may not work on stuff that's stun-immune. Seems to depend.

    As for AOE threat, the 31-pointer tank talent is Slow Time that deals minor AOE damage, reduces damage done by 5% and causes extra threat.

    There's also Force Breach, that in tank stance hits X targets (think it's up to 5) and reduces their chance to hit by 5%, with extra threat.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    Javen wrote:
    Don't Shadows have CC?

    There's a one-minute sap that works in stealth, but not on droids.

    One 4-second stun, one 2-second knockdown that may or may not work on stuff that's stun-immune. Seems to depend.

    As for AOE threat, the 31-pointer tank talent is Slow Time that deals minor AOE damage, reduces damage done by 5% and causes extra threat.

    There's also Force Breach, that in tank stance hits X targets (think it's up to 5) and reduces their chance to hit by 5%, with extra threat.

    Don't you also have a one-minute CC that you got at like, level 8? (Speaking as an inquisitor)

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I think my favorite combo attacks to do as a guard is to force throw, lightsaber toss, and then charge them before they get to their feet. Its straight star wars gangsta (and with the force throw and charge its also two stuns right next to each other). As a jedi guard with a couple minute cool downs up I can straight stunlock enemies for 10+ seconds.

    Only thing I wish is that hilt strike worked on elites, I have no clue why it does not, its not like the damage is that much better. And maybe I'm retarded, but the move that's supposed to work on slowed mobs for extra damage? Doesn't ever seem available for me even when I do a slow on something (the rare time I actually even try it since guards have like a million attacks to manage).

    Do shadows also get damage mit on taunts? I think its an interesting concept that when I taunt something it gives anyone around me a minor buff for mitigation. I can see that working on boss fights to ward off some big aoes.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote:
    It also has a lot of the same problems as previous warsong gulch, like having one class be a completely broken flag carrier

    Pretty much. At this point its more of a fight over who gets the ball first.... or which idiot gets the ball. Can't count how many times some player wants to slowly walk it to the goal without passing or anything.

    So far it hasn't been as terrible as WSG though, its smaller and there is ONE ball. WSG fails because you have to have your flag to cap, I have no idea why blizzard hasn't notice stuff like Team Fortress 2's capture the flag, where you just have to cap quicker than the other team. Then its more a matter of defending a carrier from getting it in the first place.

    Some classes are completely broken in capping for TOR, but I rarely see a game where only one team has a good capper. I'm constantly having to make sure their appropriate cappers are dead before they can get it.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Preacher wrote:
    Echo wrote:
    I wish Shadows had something more to bring to the table like guardians do. Sure, I can stand there and not die just as well as a guardian, but other than that I really only have Force Yoink to distinguish me.

    I haven't tanked for a group yet other than running some heroics with my wife. One thing I could easily see being an issue is aoe threat generation. I have two moves for hitting multiples groups, and neither brings increased threat gen sadly.

    Also as a shadow how cool looking are your animations? Guardian ones are pretty bad ass, I just know I'll eventually play a shadow if only for darth maul style saberage.

    I've tanked several flashpoints including Mandalorian Raiders at this point by 27 and it can be a bit of a problem since I only have Force Sweep as AOE (albeit a Force Sweep that costs no Focus because Courage is awesome). Essentially if I know there's a bunch of mobs coming I let the party know to be careful on AOE and then I just run around tabbing and hitting everything at least a few times. It gets the job done when there are multiple strongs, if the party (guildies from PA usually) is good enough to focus fire.

    That and I've learned that in TOR, I can pretty much ignore all of the standard enemies in trash pulls. If my party can't handle those on their own...we have issues. I focus pretty much only on strongs and elites and getting them on me.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    I've tanked several flashpoints including Mandalorian Raiders at this point by 27 and it can be a bit of a problem since I only have Force Sweep as AOE (albeit a Force Sweep that costs no Focus because Courage is awesome). Essentially if I know there's a bunch of mobs coming I let the party know to be careful on AOE and then I just run around tabbing and hitting everything at least a few times. It gets the job done when there are multiple strongs, if the party (guildies from PA usually) is good enough to focus fire.

    That and I've learned that in TOR, I can pretty much ignore all of the standard enemies in trash pulls. If my party can't handle those on their own...we have issues. I focus pretty much only on strongs and elites and getting them on me.

    So far in the 50 instances, the tank plays CC role a great deal. You do get a few more threat tools, depending on your class... but some of the more useful things are my stuns and ways to manipulate enemy positions. Those little squishy mobs, they just get hit one with my aoe smash and they are at half life and attack me til dead anyway.... so the technique is more of just playing enemy herder while keeping some of your actual threat moves on the mobs the group attacks. Sometimes I see other tanky-dps types in my group taking a strong mob and pulling its aggro, I just have learned to let it slide because at the same time they are using their own CC to just solo the mob, so I would be wasting my cooldowns to bother getting aggro.

    Tanking in this game does add some variety though, and its certainly nice.... we can do FAR more than just "add threat". Of all the party members, I feel like I'm always having to be the most mobile one too, which is fun.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    There's also the fact that as a Guardian I get Force Push which means I will go out of my way to attempt a 1-hit kill on an elite/strong.

    It never gets old.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Aegis wrote:
    There's also the fact that as a Guardian I get Force Push which means I will go out of my way to attempt a 1-hit kill on an elite/strong.

    It never gets old.

    Great fun with that one... can get bugged and stuck in combat though.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    Badwrong wrote:
    Aegis wrote:
    There's also the fact that as a Guardian I get Force Push which means I will go out of my way to attempt a 1-hit kill on an elite/strong.

    It never gets old.

    Great fun with that one... can get bugged and stuck in combat though.

    Yesterday in Raiders something like this happened. You know the double-elevator that's interrupted by a bridge with two guys on it? Perfect place to Force Push a guy so I do. Then I kill the other one and wonder "Why are we still in combat and who are my party members shooting at?"

    I look up and the strong I had pushed, presumably to his death below, had gotten stuck up on a pipe on the wall and was happily shooting at us from that position.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Bobble wrote:
    Don't you also have a one-minute CC that you got at like, level 8? (Speaking as an inquisitor)

    Force Lift is eight seconds.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
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