Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Also I never said I can't play. :P It's just annoying cause I know my DPS is suffering due to input lag which is due to graphics lag. When Warlord Zon'ozz (or however it's spelt) does his full room AOE thing I might as well stop pushing buttons for all the good it does me.
I do tippity top progress raiding in wow on a 5 year old laptop. Until one of my raiding buddies upgraded his system, he was on an even shittier rig. Sure I don't release because in the time it takes me to load to the graveyard the guys with SSD's can get back to my corpse and rez me, but no one dies because my framerate drops to shit.
I do tippity top progress raiding in wow on a 5 year old laptop. Until one of my raiding buddies upgraded his system, he was on an even shittier rig. Sure I don't release because in the time it takes me to load to the graveyard the guys with SSD's can get back to my corpse and rez me, but no one dies because my framerate drops to shit.
Out of curiousity - 10 or 25?
10 man, and yeah, 25 man has more framerate issues, but as long as I leave recount off I can still be champ of the healing meters.
Battletag BYToady#1454
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
That might be it then. I don't get near the framerate dips in 10 that I do in 25. It's still supbar, but at least it's not a slideshow (~15-20 FPS instead of 5).
No idea, I always just turn it off entirely from the character select screen. I'd imagine if it isn't recording the 20 billion lines of combat log going on with divided heals and raid wide pulses it wouldn't be so bad.
Its mostly the effect of green with my healing rain that kills me. It heals every single person in the raid, and every one of those heals are copied and then split to everyone else in the raid. Thats a whoooole lot of text for recount to parse through.
didn't really deliver a solid online experience until the expansion.
?
Well, it didn't help that at the time most people had a dial-up connection. It wasn't until some time after the expansion that broadband took off. I can't really recall my online experience with D2, but I remember there were several items that made the game unfair, like Windforce. Like has been mentioned before, the game wasn't a huge challenge when it was first released. The runewords in 1.10 was what really made the game into an obsession. At least for me.
I played D2 on dial-up each summer from 2000 to 2002 and it always played pretty well. Hardware lag was the bigger issue since the engine was/is so shitty.
Does it still hurt framerates even if it's 'paused'?
No, and your worst experiences are probably due to addons like Recount. Not that WoW's engine is great, but I don't think they can really be blamed when addons end up consuming massive amounts of CPU cycles and making everything chug.
Edit: That said, there are certain encounter effects (such as Zon'ozz tentacle rape time) that, when they fire up, I can actually hear my computer getting noticeably louder. Some sort of fan is spinning a lot faster because of them, and I think it's the video card, but I've never installed any monitoring software to confirm.
forty on
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I upgraded my graphics card from a 9800 GTX to a 6870. I'm fairly sure the low FPS is a CPU issues at this point.
Recount will definitely impact your performance. I know I fiddled with the settings to make it not such a CPU hog. Outside of turning it off, you can also set it to only monitor yourself.
I know to take this sort of thing with a grain of salt, but GameStop manager just told me March 2 release and was pretty definitive about it. Definitive enough that it made sense to me. That's a Friday though.
I ran WoW on a e7200 dual core 2.53ghz w/ 4gb of memory and a HD5770, I turned off most of the spell effects and crap and it would drop to 10 or less FPS in some raid situations. Sadly, I found out that running at max graphics vs min only gave me like 10fps total top end... which is I guess good for those with good computers.
My friend ran a quad core w/ 8gb of memory and had an SSD, he would load up the game in about 10seconds... It took me literally 1.2minutes to start it up.
Either way, WoW was using a horrible engine from day one. Memory leaks out the wazu, I remember that it would crash every 30min like clockwork because of the memory leaks for about the first 4 months of the game. Yes, they fixed a lot of those... but there were still tons, and adding/tweaking the engine just adds more; as well as slowing it down.
Man, I don't know what engine you guys are running. WoW was never a "crash every 30 minute" game, nor is it a huge system hog. I run it windowed with fucking Firefox: The Memory Raper in the background all the time with basically no issues.
Granted, it's finally starting to catch up with my 5 year old computer. I haven't been able to run it at max everything since at least Cataclysm. But it's not a huge resource hog.
And yes, I 25 man raid. (although haven't done Dragon Soul)
And I really don't understand the ugly thing. WoW ain't the prettiest, even at launch, but the art style works well with the lower quality stuff and the newer things are very nice looking.
Man, I don't know what engine you guys are running. WoW was never a "crash every 30 minute" game, nor is it a huge system hog. I run it windowed with fucking Firefox: The Memory Raper in the background all the time with basically no issues.
Granted, it's finally starting to catch up with my 5 year old computer. I haven't been able to run it at max everything since at least Cataclysm. But it's not a huge resource hog.
And yes, I 25 man raid. (although haven't done Dragon Soul)
And I really don't understand the ugly thing. WoW ain't the prettiest, even at launch, but the art style works well with the lower quality stuff and the newer things are very nice looking.
I think part of the problem is a lot of people playing wow were playing them on calculator level pc's when wow came out, and now it would probably set fire to their PC running a 25m DS.
I don't know if it matters much but D3 ran perfectly fine on my old core2duo, and when I upgraded to an i5 and got a second GTX 460, I didn't notice any meaningful performance difference. I'm not sure if the game is locked, framerate wise, though I doubt it, but it was enough to tell me that the game can probably run really well on even older systems; which given its a blizzard game was never really a question.
EDIT: And yeah, I get annoyed at comments about WoW's graphics. Granted it doesn't help that half the people posting screenshots over time in the screenshot thread seemed to have turned down every meaningful graphic option, but current wow with everything maxed out/turned on is actually a quite good looking game. It's all about the art style. Is it going to compete with Battlefield 3? Obviously not. But I can't remember the last time, outside of the base character models in old armor (which is more prevalent now with transmog), I felt like WoW wasn't a pretty game.
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I don't think WoW is ugly, per se, it's just the performance to look ratio is really, really low. Also as someone said, there doesn't seem to be much of a change from going from Ultra to Low in terms of FPS game which, once again, makes me think it's a CPU issue (even though it shouldn't be).
I don't think WoW is ugly, per se, it's just the performance to look ratio is really, really low. Also as someone said, there doesn't seem to be much of a change from going from Ultra to Low in terms of FPS game which, once again, makes me think it's a CPU issue (even though it shouldn't be).
You will basically never get good performance/look ratio in an MMO. There's too much shit to show and too little control over that.
So I haven't played Beta in a while but thought I'd go in now and give it another go with all the changes it's undergone but... is the patcher really bad? It doesn't show me speed's, and in fact has no indication that there is any download taking place at all.
Is there a better way to download the patch(s, if I need all I've missed), or am I stuck with this launcher?
I noticed that they conveniently neglected to mention Diablo: Hellfire at all.
Yeah, I noticed that too.
Not terribly surprising. Was it even official?
It was official, but it wasn't made by Blizzard. It added a lot of stuff that was cut from the original game, as I understand it. I was a lot younger when I played it though so I hardly remember.
Regardless, my quick search tells me that they disabled its multiplayer capability in the 1.01 patch, so it didn't last very long.
It was "authorized." Basically Blizzard gave them permission to make it, but it wasn't really a legit "Official Diablo Product". No more legit than the Insurrection and Retribution addon packs for Starcraft at least, which were also authorized.
You always do Duriel with a group or a higher level helping. Not really that much of a bother. If you approach it foolishly, sure. Bring mercs. Have static. No problem.
Interesting thread on the current balance of stats.
That's an interesting read, assuming his math is correct. I think a lot of the crit-based talents will change the balance a bit, but still. I wonder if that's one of the systems they're still tweaking.
It's purely a math problem, so they can change it on the fly easily. And that's the math, maybe in practice it doesn't turn out bad. I need to be in the beta to verify these things!
Interesting thread on the current balance of stats.
That's an interesting read, assuming his math is correct. I think a lot of the crit-based talents will change the balance a bit, but still. I wonder if that's one of the systems they're still tweaking.
Yeah, I'm sure they are. Right now, attack is the mother of all stats. 1 attack = 1% damage. The quicker you kill things, the less time they have to hurt you. Diablo (imo) has always been a series where the best defense is a great offense, NOT vice versa.
Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1
Rules: Each participant will private message me their pick for the date Diablo 3 will be released(Eastern Standard Time), AS WELL AS their pick for what date Blizzard will ANNOUNCE the release date, as a tie breaker. Dates are on a first come first serve basis. Your entry can't have the same announce and release date as another participant. One or the other is allowed. The dates I have chosen are an exception since I can't win the prize. The release date is the actual day of release in case the date is pushed back from their initial announced release day. The announcement is for the day they announce the release date, even if that release date is not met. Contestants can change their picks up until the registration end date*. Contestants must also have been signed up for the forums before the start date of the contest. *Please use same private conversation, it's easier on me.
Registration End Date: Sunday January 15th 11 PM EST
Contest End Date: 3 weeks before the announced release date, or the day of the announcement of the release date(if shorter than 3 weeks). This is in case the release date is pushed back.
Rules: Each participant will private message me their pick for the date Diablo 3 will be released(Eastern Standard Time), AS WELL AS their pick for what date Blizzard will ANNOUNCE the release date, as a tie breaker. Dates are on a first come first serve basis. Your entry can't have the same announce and release date as another participant. One or the other is allowed. The dates I have chosen are an exception since I can't win the prize. The release date is the actual day of release in case the date is pushed back from their initial announced release day. The announcement is for the day they announce the release date, even if that release date is not met. Contestants can change their picks up until the registration end date*. Contestants must also have been signed up for the forums before the start date of the contest. *Please use same private conversation, it's easier on me.
Registration End Date: Registration is closed!!
Contest End Date: 3 weeks before the announced release date, or the day of the announcement of the release date(if shorter than 3 weeks). This is in case the release date is pushed back.
Interesting thread on the current balance of stats.
Man, I've never understood why Blizzard's games are full of these convoluted damage formulas, all of which turn out to be horribly designed and massively favor one stat over another. There's no reason to make your damage formulas that complicated, it just confuses things for players and makes answering basic questions like "Which of these items does more damage?" require a series of spreadsheets.
I honestly think their mechanics designers don't know what they're doing, and try to hide that fact behind a bunch of impressive-looking numbers whenever their supervisor asks what they're working on.
Huh? Most Blizzard games have really good mechanics design usually.
Stuff requires spreadsheets in most games because of all the fucking modifiers and abilities and shit.
I guess it depends on what you value. Blizzard games tend to have great gameplay and skill design, in that all of the skills feel good to use and the combat is fun. As far as in-depth mechanics (ie: combat equations), they tend to be overly complex and not particularly well designed. Diablo 2 has lots of low-value stats and it's not immediately obvious which ones are any good. For example, Armor offers very little value relative to resists/block, and the character sheet is actively unclear about what it does. A good example of needless complexity in that game is assassin kick damage. What does a bloated equation like that add, exactly? It's extremely unclear what stats/items I want in order to maximize my kick damage, or how I should value stats against one another if I'm building a kick-based assassin.
Its been a while since I played WoW, but when I did play they had a bunch of stats that did basically the same thing for a character (Spell Power, Spell Haste, Spell Crit, Mastery, ect - essentially a bunch of stats that multiplicatively increase your DPS.) However, the way the equations were set up meant the game was full of arbitrary breakpoints, and actually figuring out how much of each stat was worth getting required a huge amount of calculations and spreadsheeting, with no indication in the game as to whether you were doing it right. If you tried to play WoW without a wiki finding an optimal build would be nearly impossible, or at least take a ridiculous amount of mathcraft.
Huh? Most Blizzard games have really good mechanics design usually.
Stuff requires spreadsheets in most games because of all the fucking modifiers and abilities and shit.
I guess it depends on what you value. Blizzard games tend to have great gameplay and skill design, in that all of the skills feel good to use and the combat is fun. As far as in-depth mechanics (ie: combat equations), they tend to be overly complex and not particularly well designed. Diablo 2 has lots of low-value stats and it's not immediately obvious which ones are any good. For example, Armor offers very little value relative to resists/block, and the character sheet is actively unclear about what it does. A good example of needless complexity in that game is assassin kick damage. What does a bloated equation like that add, exactly? It's extremely unclear what stats/items I want in order to maximize my kick damage, or how I should value stats against one another if I'm building a kick-based assassin.
Its been a while since I played WoW, but when I did play they had a bunch of stats that did basically the same thing for a character (Spell Power, Spell Haste, Spell Crit, Mastery, ect - essentially a bunch of stats that multiplicatively increase your DPS.) However, the way the equations were set up meant the game was full of arbitrary breakpoints, and actually figuring out how much of each stat was worth getting required a huge amount of calculations and spreadsheeting, with no indication in the game as to whether you were doing it right. If you tried to play WoW without a wiki finding an optimal build would be nearly impossible, or at least take a ridiculous amount of mathcraft.
Diablo 2 was a different studio altogether in a way. And it never seemed a paragon of balance to begin with.
WoW had a bunch of stats, but again, the reason the equations are complex is because there's a shitload of other abilities causing various effects on the system that make it quite complicated. The actual damage formulas underneath are fairly simple. There's no way to eliminate that complexity given the overall design of the combat and the customization system. It's got nothing to do with the base damage formulas.
All those stats do exactly what you think they do. And the ones that were more complicated got eliminated. (ie - armor pen or the like) The problem is the skills and the rotations required mean the math gets complicated even with simple stats. "Is Haste better then Crit?" isn't a hard question to answer because haste and crit are weird stats, it's tough to answer because it depends on what abilities you are using, what effects crit could cause and how much damage those effects do, how speeding up the cast time of things fits in with your cooldowns and all that shit.
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Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Out of curiousity - 10 or 25?
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
10 man, and yeah, 25 man has more framerate issues, but as long as I leave recount off I can still be champ of the healing meters.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Its mostly the effect of green with my healing rain that kills me. It heals every single person in the raid, and every one of those heals are copied and then split to everyone else in the raid. Thats a whoooole lot of text for recount to parse through.
Edit: That said, there are certain encounter effects (such as Zon'ozz tentacle rape time) that, when they fire up, I can actually hear my computer getting noticeably louder. Some sort of fan is spinning a lot faster because of them, and I think it's the video card, but I've never installed any monitoring software to confirm.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
My friend ran a quad core w/ 8gb of memory and had an SSD, he would load up the game in about 10seconds... It took me literally 1.2minutes to start it up.
Either way, WoW was using a horrible engine from day one. Memory leaks out the wazu, I remember that it would crash every 30min like clockwork because of the memory leaks for about the first 4 months of the game. Yes, they fixed a lot of those... but there were still tons, and adding/tweaking the engine just adds more; as well as slowing it down.
Granted, it's finally starting to catch up with my 5 year old computer. I haven't been able to run it at max everything since at least Cataclysm. But it's not a huge resource hog.
And yes, I 25 man raid. (although haven't done Dragon Soul)
And I really don't understand the ugly thing. WoW ain't the prettiest, even at launch, but the art style works well with the lower quality stuff and the newer things are very nice looking.
I think part of the problem is a lot of people playing wow were playing them on calculator level pc's when wow came out, and now it would probably set fire to their PC running a 25m DS.
I don't know if it matters much but D3 ran perfectly fine on my old core2duo, and when I upgraded to an i5 and got a second GTX 460, I didn't notice any meaningful performance difference. I'm not sure if the game is locked, framerate wise, though I doubt it, but it was enough to tell me that the game can probably run really well on even older systems; which given its a blizzard game was never really a question.
EDIT: And yeah, I get annoyed at comments about WoW's graphics. Granted it doesn't help that half the people posting screenshots over time in the screenshot thread seemed to have turned down every meaningful graphic option, but current wow with everything maxed out/turned on is actually a quite good looking game. It's all about the art style. Is it going to compete with Battlefield 3? Obviously not. But I can't remember the last time, outside of the base character models in old armor (which is more prevalent now with transmog), I felt like WoW wasn't a pretty game.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
You will basically never get good performance/look ratio in an MMO. There's too much shit to show and too little control over that.
Interesting thread on the current balance of stats.
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
Is there a better way to download the patch(s, if I need all I've missed), or am I stuck with this launcher?
It was "authorized." Basically Blizzard gave them permission to make it, but it wasn't really a legit "Official Diablo Product". No more legit than the Insurrection and Retribution addon packs for Starcraft at least, which were also authorized.
No, Duriel.
I'M LOOKIN' FOR YOU!
That bug and whoever designed him can go get fucked.
It interested me on a couple occasions, with how many PA folks did it now and then; but every time I would almost do it, I'd remember Duriel and nope.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
That's an interesting read, assuming his math is correct. I think a lot of the crit-based talents will change the balance a bit, but still. I wonder if that's one of the systems they're still tweaking.
Yeah, I'm sure they are. Right now, attack is the mother of all stats. 1 attack = 1% damage. The quicker you kill things, the less time they have to hurt you. Diablo (imo) has always been a series where the best defense is a great offense, NOT vice versa.
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
12 hours left, you should get on this!
Also remember to read all the rules.
I'm not wild about the new art style, but I can totally see how I'm going to lose hundreds of hours of my life on this. Blizzard....<3
That would probably be fun
Remind of the rules? Something like:
- If you die, you're dead for good
- Can only use what you find
- No going back to town
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Registration is closed ya'll
Man, I've never understood why Blizzard's games are full of these convoluted damage formulas, all of which turn out to be horribly designed and massively favor one stat over another. There's no reason to make your damage formulas that complicated, it just confuses things for players and makes answering basic questions like "Which of these items does more damage?" require a series of spreadsheets.
I honestly think their mechanics designers don't know what they're doing, and try to hide that fact behind a bunch of impressive-looking numbers whenever their supervisor asks what they're working on.
Stuff requires spreadsheets in most games because of all the fucking modifiers and abilities and shit.
I guess it depends on what you value. Blizzard games tend to have great gameplay and skill design, in that all of the skills feel good to use and the combat is fun. As far as in-depth mechanics (ie: combat equations), they tend to be overly complex and not particularly well designed. Diablo 2 has lots of low-value stats and it's not immediately obvious which ones are any good. For example, Armor offers very little value relative to resists/block, and the character sheet is actively unclear about what it does. A good example of needless complexity in that game is assassin kick damage. What does a bloated equation like that add, exactly? It's extremely unclear what stats/items I want in order to maximize my kick damage, or how I should value stats against one another if I'm building a kick-based assassin.
Its been a while since I played WoW, but when I did play they had a bunch of stats that did basically the same thing for a character (Spell Power, Spell Haste, Spell Crit, Mastery, ect - essentially a bunch of stats that multiplicatively increase your DPS.) However, the way the equations were set up meant the game was full of arbitrary breakpoints, and actually figuring out how much of each stat was worth getting required a huge amount of calculations and spreadsheeting, with no indication in the game as to whether you were doing it right. If you tried to play WoW without a wiki finding an optimal build would be nearly impossible, or at least take a ridiculous amount of mathcraft.
Diablo 2 was a different studio altogether in a way. And it never seemed a paragon of balance to begin with.
WoW had a bunch of stats, but again, the reason the equations are complex is because there's a shitload of other abilities causing various effects on the system that make it quite complicated. The actual damage formulas underneath are fairly simple. There's no way to eliminate that complexity given the overall design of the combat and the customization system. It's got nothing to do with the base damage formulas.
All those stats do exactly what you think they do. And the ones that were more complicated got eliminated. (ie - armor pen or the like) The problem is the skills and the rotations required mean the math gets complicated even with simple stats. "Is Haste better then Crit?" isn't a hard question to answer because haste and crit are weird stats, it's tough to answer because it depends on what abilities you are using, what effects crit could cause and how much damage those effects do, how speeding up the cast time of things fits in with your cooldowns and all that shit.
My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15