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Salary/Job Negotiations?
Actinguy1
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Greetings super friends! I currently have a job, and expect another job offer in the near future. Having never been in this fortunate situation before, I am looking for advice.
Background: I am a recently-seperated military veteran. Aside from silly retail/hotel clerk/etc type jobs, the military has been my only full-time employment experience. After seperating, I went back to school, where I just graduated last month with a degree in Corporate Communications. In my final months of school, I was able to obtain a part-time paid internship helping with PR/marketing at a trade association, with the promise that they would try to turn it into a full-time gig by March of this year.
While cruising around on Craigslist a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see a listing for a marketing job at a company that I have a quasi-history with. My father worked there (happily) for seven years, and I temped for a summer helping him out. I applied for the position, and got a phone interview, which is scheduled for tomorrow. Unbeknowst to me, my father mentioned this to a few of his old co-worker friends. One who no longer works there anymore mentioned it to the owner of the company. The owner, with fond memories of my father, sent an "alert" to the HR department. I don't know what that means, but I assume it's something like "hire this guy if we can." I should mention all of this happened AFTER I was contacted for the phone interview (since that's when I mentioned it to my Dad).
Anyhow, I'm assuming that if I don't completely screw up the interview process, I'll receive an offer. I only work 12 hours a week right now, so whatever the offer is, I'd be a fool to turn down a full-time job with benefits. But I've never had a full-time corporate job offer before, so I'm wondering what to do about it.
A) Jump up and down like I just won the lottery. Possibly do a victory lap around the office before I accept.
Thank them and say I need to talk it over with my wife. Go to my current employer, tell them about the offer. If they agree to match it, go back to the new job, tell them my current employer is matching it, and ask for a better offer. Repeat.
C) Thank them and say I need to talk it over with my wife. Go to my current employer and tell them the offer is, say, 5k a year more than they're actually offering. If the current employer is willing to match it, go to my new employer and say my current employer offered me 5k more. Can they match it? Repeat.
I'm leaning towards C, mostly because I like the idea of working at the new job more than staying with my current employer, if the salaries are even. But what say you fine, upstanding citizens?
tl;dr: Have a part-time job that may go full time. Potentially have a full time job offer coming in the next week or so. Play them against each other? Or thank god I was offered a full time job at all?
Background: I am a recently-seperated military veteran. Aside from silly retail/hotel clerk/etc type jobs, the military has been my only full-time employment experience. After seperating, I went back to school, where I just graduated last month with a degree in Corporate Communications. In my final months of school, I was able to obtain a part-time paid internship helping with PR/marketing at a trade association, with the promise that they would try to turn it into a full-time gig by March of this year.
While cruising around on Craigslist a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see a listing for a marketing job at a company that I have a quasi-history with. My father worked there (happily) for seven years, and I temped for a summer helping him out. I applied for the position, and got a phone interview, which is scheduled for tomorrow. Unbeknowst to me, my father mentioned this to a few of his old co-worker friends. One who no longer works there anymore mentioned it to the owner of the company. The owner, with fond memories of my father, sent an "alert" to the HR department. I don't know what that means, but I assume it's something like "hire this guy if we can." I should mention all of this happened AFTER I was contacted for the phone interview (since that's when I mentioned it to my Dad).
Anyhow, I'm assuming that if I don't completely screw up the interview process, I'll receive an offer. I only work 12 hours a week right now, so whatever the offer is, I'd be a fool to turn down a full-time job with benefits. But I've never had a full-time corporate job offer before, so I'm wondering what to do about it.
A) Jump up and down like I just won the lottery. Possibly do a victory lap around the office before I accept.
Thank them and say I need to talk it over with my wife. Go to my current employer, tell them about the offer. If they agree to match it, go back to the new job, tell them my current employer is matching it, and ask for a better offer. Repeat.C) Thank them and say I need to talk it over with my wife. Go to my current employer and tell them the offer is, say, 5k a year more than they're actually offering. If the current employer is willing to match it, go to my new employer and say my current employer offered me 5k more. Can they match it? Repeat.
I'm leaning towards C, mostly because I like the idea of working at the new job more than staying with my current employer, if the salaries are even. But what say you fine, upstanding citizens?
tl;dr: Have a part-time job that may go full time. Potentially have a full time job offer coming in the next week or so. Play them against each other? Or thank god I was offered a full time job at all?
Actinguy1 on
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Here's the problem - at some point, one of the two entities you're playing off each other will say 'Sorry, that's too much, have a nice day.' That's the problem with playing chicken - eventually someone blinks. The 'Play them against each other trick' only really works if both companies really want you, and are willing to tug of war over it with piles of money or bennies. If you want to stay with your current position, you can attempt the counter-offer trick. I suspect however, given all you've mentioned (being part time), that they'll just give you a pat on the back and a best wishes. Your a part timer after all, and an intern to boot.
It sounds like you've got a legitimate shot at a company that your father built some good will with, and that they want you. This sounds pretty rare, and honestly, if they money is right, I'd jump on it. Just make sure that if they give you an offer letter that's a competitive offer for your skills, and job experience. That might require some back-end research on your part, to make sure you don't get short changed. Good luck, and let us know how it went and what you decided.
It's customary for a potential employer to give you a few days to think an offer over though, so you can definitely feel free to see if your current employer can top it. 3lwap0 is absolutely right with his playing chicken analogy though, and to add to what he said there's also the factor of your own personal preferences. If the company that you (all other things being equal) would prefer to be at is the one that "blinks", you may cost yourself that opportunity just to get a few more dollars. You need to figure out what is most important to you here and determine how much you're willing to risk for it.
As a final note, I would recommend against lying about offer amounts. You never know when these things might get out, and the last thing you want early in your career is to have a reputation for being a liar.
Best of luck to you.
Do not do this. You don't want to stay at your current job.
Do a little background research and negotiate when/if salary is mentioned. This sounds like it's coming down from on high as a favor to your dad so I doubt they're going to lowball you.
Just keep it in perspective, you're a recent grad with fuck all experience working part time. People with your qualifications are ten a penny. I don't mean this as an insult, we've all been there. Just recognize that you really don't have much leverage here.
Secondly: don't bother with your old employer or trying to negotiate salary back and forth. There's no way your 12 hrs/wk can equal a 40hr/wk fulltime job in terms of real compensation, no matter what kind of raise they offer you.
Instead, talk to your wife now and identify what you think is the realistic minimum rate you will accept, and find out what the average rate is. Then ask for 15% more than the average when they inquire about salary needs. They will offer you less.
Unless their offer is below your minimum, take the offer.
Anyhow, as others have said, the chicken game is dangerous. That's why I lean to plan C. I'll be playing chicken with the job that I don't want. Either they don't play, and I end up at the job that I wanted anyway at the salary they were going to pay me anyway, or they DO play, and worst case scenario, I'm still at the job I didn't prefer, but making a lot more money.
WOOP WOOP WOOP ALERT ALERT
So many people make this mistake!
If you do not have an offer on paper, in your hand, then no one is planning on doing anything for you in March.
Talk from the boss about planning to do this or that is bullshit. It is not real. It never happened. You dreamed that conversation, man.
Learn this now!!! If you don't have an offer on paper, signed by someone with authority, you have NOTHING. You'll be bargaining with nothing.
"Hey, remember that promise you made? Will you make it a better promise? Because I'll walk."
"What are you talking about? No one promised anything, but if you stop talking now you aren't fired."
What your boss is planning to do isn't worth the sweat off a dead donkey's dick. HE has a boss and they still have to deal with HR to create the job, buy out your temp contract, whatever.
Planning to make you an offer is not an offer.
Spool is correct. Get it in writing or it is nothing but a fantasy, even if they intend to do so you cannot assume they will unless they are legally bound to do so via a paper offer.
Its a general truism: Show me the proof or gtfo.
Your boss may WANT to make you full time, but without proof, it is entirely possible for him to say.
"Yeah, turns out with budget cuts and the economy, we didn't get the headcount we wanted.
Don't get me wrong, we LOVE having you work here, we just need a bit more time to get our offer together for you."
6 months later you're still waiting.
I would also put some serious weight with the company you have a previous connection with via your dad, as that's how most real jobs are filled these days. You already have a connection via real people to this company, which gives you a head start on building a network of friends that will help in the future with raises and promotions within the new company. Relationships are what's going to be moving your career anywhere you go, and you already have relationships here.
imho
Steam
Only the strong can help the weak.
Yeah your boss won't forget and if the time comes when he has to let someone go, the mercenaries are usually the first ones out the door.
Telling them I have a real job offer elsewhere is going to quickly prove whether they are serious about keeping me. If they're not, no harm done, so long. If they are and they offer me more money than the new job, I'll consider staying. Depends on both offers.
Also, if you been at the current company for awhile, you should have a feeling of how long they plan ahead for a hire and when they decide. Or maybe a co-worker that would know that answer and you could ask confidentially. March is ~6 weeks from now.
If you have a definitive offer from the new company, and like working at the old company still, why not? The worst that can happen is that the old company declines to hire you and you just go where the money is. Otherwise you keep working at your old company that you are happier with now with a full-time job.
It's like a win/less-win.
But while all this was happening, I received an e-mail from a major government organization I applied with. They said my "application was ranked among those considered most qualified for this vacancy and has been referred to the selecting official for further consideration. You will be advised when a selection decision is made." This job is a government position so they have to post the salary. It's more than double what I was asking the other companies for, so we'll see what happens!
Good luck, and yeah, be skeptical of a full time position until it's in writing. There was a real tense period when I was trying to transfer from my internship to a full-time position and things were looking pretty rocky. Like, there were problems opening a job requirement, and even then we had to list a bunch of obscure skills I had specifically for the job so that it couldn't be filled by someone else already working there without a current project, and then things weren't looking good with that and they were talking about letting a contracting company hire me and bringing me on as a job shopper, which would be a significant raise but I'd have to get everything solidified and a real position within 18 months and I'd get little to no benefits.
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