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[PATV] Extra Credits Season 3, Ep. 24a - Stand Together

Posts

  • DuriniaDurinia Evolved from Space Potatoes Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    I was very glad to see this. Industry organizations like the ESA and MPAA claim to represent the "creators", but it's always been clear that they really just support corporate profit margins. Ironically, this legislation would very likely hurt their industry in the long-term. Time after time, we've seen the publisher "common sense" on profits is almost always wrong.

    Example:
    h0tkJ.jpg

    I hope this gains traction!

    Durinia on
    For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
    --Mark Twain
  • SlurmeeSlurmee AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I hope big named people start doing this too like total biscuit, yatzee, toby tobuscus. And really scare ESA.

    steam_sig.png
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User, Transition Team regular
    I read that with the emphasis on "named" and suddenly thought of WoW for the first time in years. Yahtzee running around with a silver border around his name, surrounded by trash mobs...

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    This is an interesting gesture to propose. Trouble is, I'm not sure the idea is going to take. I hope it does, don't get me wrong.

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Of course it won't take. Asking people with the "integrity" of IGN and Kotaku to skip E3? Like that's going to happen. This industry has shown time and time again that people will complain about something loudly and then go with it when it happens, like with the whole MW2 PC boycott. In addition, even if the big A level sites declined to cover E3 there's a ton of B level sites that would push and shove to fill the vacuum. Boycotting E3 just plain logistically won't work.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Opty wrote:
    Of course it won't take. Asking people with the "integrity" of IGN and Kotaku to skip E3? Like that's going to happen. This industry has shown time and time again that people will complain about something loudly and then go with it when it happens, like with the whole MW2 PC boycott. In addition, even if the big A level sites declined to cover E3 there's a ton of B level sites that would push and shove to fill the vacuum. Boycotting E3 just plain logistically won't work.

    Well...IGN is..you know. Owned by News Corp. Of course they wouldn't join a boycott.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington The Exploding ManRegistered User regular
    But if we, the consumers, put our weight behind not supporting them and cut into their revenue at all aren't we doing what they want?

    What you should be doing is applying pressure to those people/sites in an attempt to get a message across. That consumers are telling you "this is a BAD idea" should say something. This is not the enraged minority speaking up and making geese of themselves (like some of the people with the Paul Christofolopolous situation and their twitter comments). These are the well spoken figureheads of the industry.

    Does Penny Arcade represent the consumer side of things from their lofty perches? Hell yes they do, and I don't believe for a second this segment appears on their website without their full support.

    This is an extreme measure to be taking, but it's reaching the right crowd right now. You should do this, it is a noble thing.

  • GalacticGalactic Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    REG Rysk wrote:
    But if we, the consumers, put our weight behind not supporting them and cut into their revenue at all aren't we doing what they want?

    What you should be doing is applying pressure to those people/sites in an attempt to get a message across. That consumers are telling you "this is a BAD idea" should say something. This is not the enraged minority speaking up and making geese of themselves (like some of the people with the Paul Christofolopolous situation and their twitter comments). These are the well spoken figureheads of the industry.

    Does Penny Arcade represent the consumer side of things from their lofty perches? Hell yes they do, and I don't believe for a second this segment appears on their website without their full support.

    This is an extreme measure to be taking, but it's reaching the right crowd right now. You should do this, it is a noble thing.

    The sad thing is if their gaming sales take a dip they'll just attribute it to "pirates" and fight back with even dumber ideas. We are in a sad, circular argument with the gaming companies here. It's like an internet flamewar...

    Galactic on
    ^_-;

    Too Galactic for you.
  • JamesPortnowJamesPortnow Registered User new member
    I try not to jump into these threads as I'd rather see discussion happening completely unbiased, and I know me being here will have some biasing effect, but I just wanted to make sure that we don't just demonize the ESA. There was a time when the ESA fought for us and supported us all. This isn't something that has to vanish forever. With your help, we can give the tools they need to those fighting for a better ESA inside the ESA.

    http://youtu.be/I3GXKg8juXM?t=6m44s

  • LordjeffLordjeff Registered User new member
    The only problem I have with this idea is that it could hurt developers that rely on E3 for getting know.

  • GoldenGoatGoldenGoat Registered User new member
    edited January 2012
    Lots of cynicism in here, but just look at what we've already accomplished.

    A month ago, it looked like the fix was in on this thing and we were powerless to stop it. Now, the online community has ground the bill's progress to a near halt.

    Perhaps the "we can do this" view seems terribly naive, but with the momentum we have now I really think we can.

    Side note - we finally got to hear Daniel's real voice! Yay!

    GoldenGoat on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I try not to jump into these threads as I'd rather see discussion happening completely unbiased, and I know me being here will have some biasing effect, but I just wanted to make sure that we don't just demonize the ESA. There was a time when the ESA fought for us and supported us all. This isn't something that has to vanish forever. With your help, we can give the tools they need to those fighting for a better ESA inside the ESA.

    http://youtu.be/I3GXKg8juXM?t=6m44s

    It's an easy trap to fall into, but given my time in this community when you set aside people who fall into that trap, they more readily come around to the idea that it's a single bad decision by the ESA, rather than this one thing being enough to topple some sort of giant.

    We all get why the ESA supports SOPA / PIPA. And even that's a false statement. They support fighting piracy. It's just that, for the moment, this is their one avenue of fighting it on this level of legislation. They need to be more vocal about saying they want less oppressive means.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    That's an excellent point, James. For a lot of political issues reform is preferable to revolution, and demanding we tear down these groups will have consequences we couldn't hope to control. Right now I feel what motivates SOPA and PIPA is a desire for control, coupled with an inherent distrust of the consumer. Ideally it would be great if we could steer the ESA - and the MIAA and RIAA too - away from seeking control to engaging with the people who buy their wares.

    It's slightly tricky for me as I:

    - Am Not American
    - Have an abstentionist for an MP in Westminster

    But I will be working out how I can support the cause. For one thing I currently have no plans to follow E3 at all until ESA officially reverses their stance. It may be a token gesture, but it's still something.

  • lordlundarlordlundar Registered User regular
    I try not to jump into these threads as I'd rather see discussion happening completely unbiased, and I know me being here will have some biasing effect, but I just wanted to make sure that we don't just demonize the ESA. There was a time when the ESA fought for us and supported us all. This isn't something that has to vanish forever. With your help, we can give the tools they need to those fighting for a better ESA inside the ESA.

    http://youtu.be/I3GXKg8juXM?t=6m44s

    James, I have to respectfully disagree with the latter part of your statement. The ESA has NEVER supported the gaming community, only their paying members. There were times when the goals of the two groups were the same and they abused a paper thin "relationship" to further the same goals, but beyond that their response has been to regard the gaming community at large as little more than sheep to fleece. If you don't believe me, let me ask you this: Where is the Video Game Voter's Network, an organization created by the ESA for the gaming community to oppose the Anti-game bill and used as a proclamation that the ESA and the gaming community speak as one, now that the goals of it's members and the ESA are not the same? The VGVN is at current, because it is part of the ESA, by default is supporting SOPA and PIPA.

    And to be honest, The ESA is like the MPAA and the RIAA; a group of corporations acting to further their own goals at the expense of anyone around them. The only way to fix it would be to remove any corporation that does that. The problem with that is that after it is done, there is nothing left.

  • ConnConn Registered User regular
    No disrespect for the intentions of the video, but the greatest part of this episode for me was hearing Daniel Floyd's real voice.

    XBL, PSN, and NNID: "ConnConnor" for all three.
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    Holy crap! Daniel Floyd looks just like Edward Norton. I was half expecting him to start punching himself in the video...

  • J4RMZJ4RMZ Recovering Misanthrope San DiegoRegistered User new member
    Now Tayne I can get into. I hope this goes down.

  • Zachary AmaranthZachary Amaranth Registered User regular
    Opty wrote:
    Of course it won't take. Asking people with the "integrity" of IGN and Kotaku to skip E3? Like that's going to happen. This industry has shown time and time again that people will complain about something loudly and then go with it when it happens, like with the whole MW2 PC boycott. In addition, even if the big A level sites declined to cover E3 there's a ton of B level sites that would push and shove to fill the vacuum. Boycotting E3 just plain logistically won't work.

    I think gamers remain a core of the problem. Since we as a "community" will make them tons of money off E3 coverage, they have every reason to do it and no reason not. If we as gamers could abstain from such news sites, we could make them think twice, but we will eat up the coverage for the same reason we bought every objectionable game in the last decade, despite mewlings of boycotts.

    And oddly enough, knowing this, I've been doing anything I can anyway. I just wish that it felt like it was in some way rewarding. I mean, in the sense of the satisfaction that anything would come of it.

    Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, guys. Just....Gah.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    At the end of the day, E3 is a trade show. It is designed to show (and hype) games to retailers so that the retailers will make shelf space for them. Along the way smaller vendors use it to maybe get noticed. Game journalism exists to hype product and try to convince more people to buy said product. It all feeds into the same goal - making money for the publishers.

    Until the retailers start boycotting E3, the show will go on, no matter what. And I don't think the retailers mind SOPA.

    ... Though E3 did almost die due to lack of industry support, so who knows.

    He/Him | "We who believe in freedom cannot rest." - Dr. Johnetta Cole, 7/22/2024
  • StuntspikeStuntspike Don Juan De La Nooch In the midstRegistered User regular
    If E3 drops as the largest gaming convention in the world does PAX take it's place?

    "Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    PAX exceeded E3 a while ago...

  • jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    They are different animals completely.

  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    They are different animals completely.

    In much the same way the neanderthal was a different animal than homo sapiens.

    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • MousekavichMousekavich Registered User new member
    Okay, just my 2 cents here. I thought it was a very effective strategy to get the word out about SOPA/PIPA when Extra Credits (amongst others) posted that video on the topic and encouraged people to get ahold of their elected officials. That being said, I'd like to see another call to action in the exact same style. People need a new call to action, this time against ACTA. But I think even more people read the comics here than watch PATV - I'm looking at you Mike and Jerry. Can we get a strip on ACTA?

    I dare you to turn it on.
  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington The Exploding ManRegistered User regular
    Did it work?

    I'd have to think this had some effect as evidenced by this article showing their dropping of support.

  • eBusinesseBusiness Registered User new member
    Okay, just my 2 cents here. I thought it was a very effective strategy to get the word out about SOPA/PIPA when Extra Credits (amongst others) posted that video on the topic and encouraged people to get ahold of their elected officials. That being said, I'd like to see another call to action in the exact same style. People need a new call to action, this time against ACTA. But I think even more people read the comics here than watch PATV - I'm looking at you Mike and Jerry. Can we get a strip on ACTA?
    The problem is, you can't use the blackout trick very often, otherwise people loose interest and just get plain annoyed with the lack of service. I honestly think Wikipedia should have dropped the blackout, by the time it happened the bills were practically dead. The campaign against ACTA is going to be a lot tougher, you can't gather the same media attention because it is pretty much just a repeat of the SOPA/PIPA story, so an attention booster like the Wikipedia blackout will be much more needed, but right now the Wikipedia blackout button is greyed out and the tooltip says "ready in 2 years".

    Am I by the way the only person who is disappointed that we didn't get a real episode of Extra Credits? No offence to the cause, but releasing episode 24b a day or two later would seem like a good compromise between activism and not disappointing anyone.

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