That's the other thing - new prices drop so fast now that I don't even really find it to be a big deal. I got Forza 4, a game that came out in October, for like $25 on Black Friday.
Do you realize how invalid that example is? It was Black Friday. The game is still $59.99 today.
Wait, your example works as long as you're okay with waiting until Black Friday to buy all your video games.
It's not much different than waiting on a Steam sale; sure, they're more frequent, but I almost always wait for the big seasonal sales before I buy a game, unless it's a daily or a Weekend deal.
Okay, but saying you got a game for 60% off on Black Friday does not mean that "new prices drop so fast now." New prices on console games (which is what this thread is about, not Steam/PC games) do not drop that fast, unless they're really bad.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Point of order, this thread was never specified as console only, although the used PC market is pretty non-existent anyway.
However, with the success of Steam and the fact that distro costs are reduced to a negligible amount by services such as Steam, it's a valid point as the industry is headed in that direction.
That's the other thing - new prices drop so fast now that I don't even really find it to be a big deal. I got Forza 4, a game that came out in October, for like $25 on Black Friday.
Do you realize how invalid that example is? It was Black Friday. The game is still $59.99 today.
Wait, your example works as long as you're okay with waiting until Black Friday to buy all your video games.
It's not much different than waiting on a Steam sale; sure, they're more frequent, but I almost always wait for the big seasonal sales before I buy a game, unless it's a daily or a Weekend deal.
Okay, but saying you got a game for 60% off on Black Friday does not mean that "new prices drop so fast now." New prices on console games (which is what this thread is about, not Steam/PC games) do not drop that fast, unless they're really bad.
There are numerous other examples of new games selling for 33+% off of MSRP very shortly after they come out. For most of last year, Amazon was giving out $20 credits and free shipping on pretty much every pre-order. Spending like 10 minutes a week on CAG can save you lots of money.
Lately, Newegg has been trying to sell more games and have been listing a lot of big-time preorders at $48 or less (20% off), for example.
My biggest fear about a system that does not allow used games is a limited print run scenario. Unless there's digital distribution, what happens when a title like Infinite Space comes along? Great game ported over to NA, tiny print run, where are you going to get it?
You buy a new console 3 or 4 years into its life cycle, and you see that there are a few critically acclaimed but low selling games; they're no longer being printed. What are you going to do? That's why I love used games. Not because of the prices, but because I can always be assured of finding a copy, whether it's on a new system or on the Sega Saturn.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Point of order, this thread was never specified as console only, although the used PC market is pretty non-existent anyway.
However, with the success of Steam and the fact that distro costs are reduced to a negligible amount by services such as Steam, it's a valid point as the industry is headed in that direction.
There is no used game market on PC, so a thread about the used game market (and how developers/publishers are fighting against it) is about console games.
i for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
If your console did crap out and you had to replace it, your digital content would still be accessible. It is tied to your account, not your console.
And as far as a company going under, well, the sky is falling and all that.
The ultimate outcome of issues (in the U.S., anyway) like this is going to have to be a stronger statutory definition of fair use.
Stuff like used games are a niche issue right now, but in the long run as digital formats proliferate and companies get better at managing them, we're going to have to confront questions of format shifting, and broader topics like "do we still want to have libraries?"
There isn't any movement in a positive direction on this right now because most of the stakeholders are still young (and thus have little money/influence) and most legislators are old (and therefore don't know wtf digital media even means, most of the time), but that will change.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
i'm for one won't support an all digital console, and it's also why i've shied away from PC gaming. steam may be successful now but the landscape can radically changed in 5-10 years.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm not looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
There is an "Off line mode" for steam that allows you to play your games without being online
You're assuming 2 things happen on the same day:
1) Your hard drive containing your gaming library crashes and you never made a backup
2) On the same day steam shuts down. Meaning you can't download the games on your new hard drive.
What are the odds?
If your console did crap out and you had to replace it, your digital content would still be accessible. It is tied to your account, not your console.
And as far as a company going under, well, the sky is falling and all that.
I don't really use my steam account very much (mostly to occasionally find cheap old games for nostalgia reasons) so it isn't a big deal for me, but if I were one of these people who have hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in steam, and valve went out of business, I'd (potentially) be pretty annoyed. I'm not worried about it happening like, tomorrow, but in 20 years? Who knows.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
The other benefit to an all digital system is less resistance to back compatibility. You don't have to support old media (Look at the Wii's virtual console, then apply that to every game a company still has the rights to place on the market, but works on the current console).
Steam has brought back old DOS games by pre-configuring DOSBOX to run it in Windows 7 and then making it easy to get. Other services exist such as GOG and whatnot, but Steam is my only vector for buying PC games now (The odd exception, such as BF3, does occur, however) and buying old games that I threw out the discs to because Windows just simply wouldn't work with them any more is a wonderful thing.
If giving up physical media meant that the PS4 had the entire libraries of the PS1, 2 and 3 available for it at launch, would you buy a PS4?
The other benefit to an all digital system is less resistance to back compatibility. You don't have to support old media (Look at the Wii's virtual console, then apply that to every game a company still has the rights to place on the market, but works on the current console).
Steam has brought back old DOS games by pre-configuring DOSBOX to run it in Windows 7 and then making it easy to get. Other services exist such as GOG and whatnot, but Steam is my only vector for buying PC games now (The odd exception, such as BF3, does occur, however) and buying old games that I threw out the discs to because Windows just simply wouldn't work with them any more is a wonderful thing.
If giving up physical media meant that the PS4 had the entire libraries of the PS1, 2 and 3 available for it at launch, would you buy a PS4?
It will have a disc drive. It has to.
"Wait" he says... do I look like a waiter?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
hy·po·thet·i·cal (hp-tht-kl) also hy·po·thet·ic (-thtk)
adj.
n.
A hypothetical circumstance, condition, scenario, or situation: OK, let's consider this possibility just as a hypothetical.
Sigh, your hypothetical situation has a 0% chance of ever happening. I'll bite: I would agree to it if I am able to register my old PS3-2-1 games to my psn account and download them on my PS4.
"Wait" he says... do I look like a waiter?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Both the new Playstation and XBox will have a disc drive, clearly, but even so, full support for digital distribution would, I think, improve the marketplace overall.
So long as they take the Steam approach and tie purchases to accounts and not hardware. >.>
And Turkey? Did you say that Microsoft doesn't do much sales for digital content?
What?
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
The concern with losing your Steam games is a moot point. Valve has stated that if it were to ever shut down Steam, all DRM will be patched out beforehand. And seeing as you can easily back up your games now and even play in offline mode, there should be no worry.
What if your backup was lost/damaged/etc? I can ask the same question about your physical disc games.
Both the new Playstation and XBox will have a disc drive, clearly, but even so, full support for digital distribution would, I think, improve the marketplace overall.
So long as they take the Steam approach and tie purchases to accounts and not hardware. >.>
And Turkey? Did you say that Microsoft doesn't do much sales for digital content?
What?
They have weekly sales, but the amount of content on sale pales in comparison to the amount PSN has every week. They also seem more averse to permanent price drops on older digital releases.
The concern with losing your Steam games is a moot point. Valve has stated that if it were to ever shut down Steam, all DRM will be patched out beforehand. And seeing as you can easily back up your games now and even play in offline mode, there should be no worry.
What if your backup was lost/damaged/etc? I can ask the same question about your physical disc games.
this is why i'm not talking about steam and PC games. even if it is unlikely, these are things that could happen. luckily with 360/PS3 you can easily transfer those games over by way of moving the HDD, but if for some reason your HDD gets corrupted and there is no live/PSN, our digital library is very much lost. unlike PC which is very easy to have back ups, it's not quite that simple on console.
The Used market encourages new game sales. A person can buy a $60 game and resell it after their done for $20-$35 (at retail) or more (online), essentially chopping the "new" game price by half. Another way to look at it is buying new at $60, reselling it to get money back, and using said money to go towards another new game. You might say, but putting a used copy on the shelf subtracts an otherwise new sale; to that I believe that if a person is willing to save five bucks, and loses that option, he'll probably just wait until the new games go on sale/price drop or bargain bin anyway, after the crucial initial sales period of the game is over.
Others have mentioned, but my favorite aspect of Used games sections at Gamestop or online is that I can buy older games I've missed. I still buy the occasional PS2 game, for instance. They're not still stocking new copies of a lot of last gen games. Hell, they're not still stocking a lot of older, current gen games!
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Oh, that's what you meant.
I thought you meant sales as in 'units sold'.
That may be, but it won't likely be the case forever. Steam pretty aggressively marks down titles and if PSN does as well, then there will be a lot of pressure on Microsoft to do the same on Live if it's their main revenue source for the XBox.
Of course, they may not. At this point it's kind of moot.
And I'm still resistant to buying a PS3 simply because Sony are arrogant douches. :P But I'll probably be getting one soon since the life cycle is in it's final couple years.
The concern with losing your Steam games is a moot point. Valve has stated that if it were to ever shut down Steam, all DRM will be patched out beforehand. And seeing as you can easily back up your games now and even play in offline mode, there should be no worry.
What if your backup was lost/damaged/etc? I can ask the same question about your physical disc games.
There's no requirement that valve do this, though; in the hypothetically likely event that a valve bankruptcy ended in a firesale of their assets to another entity, the outcome becomes even less clear.
The beef here isn't with Valve (which seems to be a relatively good, consumer-oriented company), it's that everyone isn't required to behave the way Valve says they will.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Services like Steam have all but obliterated the used game market, and yet the consumer didn't even really notice.
It's not unthinkable that the next-gen systems will lean heavily toward online-distribution for most software, and the used game market will be kaput.
Which is fine with a benevolent platform holder like Valve, who has built a community that expects sales on a regular basis. Sadly, you can't guarantee the same kind of love from others.
Do you realize how invalid that example is? It was Black Friday. The game is still $59.99 today.
Wait, your example works as long as you're okay with waiting until Black Friday to buy all your video games.
The prices are a bit more fluid these days, as retailers fight for relevance in an increasingly online market. I mean, Toys R US is selling SSX and Amalur for $44.99 and they're not even out yet.
The Used market encourages new game sales. A person can buy a $60 game and resell it after their done for $20-$35 (at retail) or more (online), essentially chopping the "new" game price by half. Another way to look at it is buying new at $60, reselling it to get money back, and using said money to go towards another new game. You might say, but putting a used copy on the shelf subtracts an otherwise new sale; to that I believe that if a person is willing to save five bucks, and loses that option, he'll probably just wait until the new games go on sale/price drop or bargain bin anyway, after the crucial initial sales period of the game is over.
Indeed. Used merchandise increases the value of new merchandise because the user can get something out of it once they're done with.
Buying used does not hurt the developer one bit, as they have already made money on the initial purchase of the game.
Yeah, it does hurt developers, because you're buying a used copy of the game instead of buying a new copy and thus increasing their profits.
This is not a value judgement on the "ethics" of buying used vs. new, or whether developers are being hurt in unreasonable amounts, but it's silly to deny that used games cut into developer profit margins.
Buying used does not hurt the developer one bit, as they have already made money on the initial purchase of the game.
Yeah, it does hurt developers, because you're buying a used copy of the game instead of buying a new copy and thus increasing their profits.
This is not a value judgement on the "ethics" of buying used vs. new, or whether developers are being hurt in an unreasonable manner, but it's silly to deny that used games don't cut into developer profit margins.
i'd say it's silly to argue that it does. a person trying to buy used isn't interested in buying new, so if they never had the intent to buy new it is not a sale lost. companies can try and cry over it like it's a problem, but the reality is people will buy used or not at all. this isn't a sale lost, it's a sale that would have never happened.
i'd say it's silly to argue that it does. a person trying to buy used isn't interested in buying new, so if they never had the intent to buy new it is not a sale lost. companies can try and cry over it like it's a problem, but the reality is people will buy used or not at all. this isn't a sale lost, it's a sale that would have never happened.
That argument can much more easily be made with piracy, I think. I can't speak for you, but from my own personal experience, while many people I know may opt for used because it's cheaper, if they aren't presented with an option to buy used they'll just get the new version of the game. I do it myself on occasion.
Buying used does not hurt the developer one bit, as they have already made money on the initial purchase of the game.
Yeah, it does hurt developers, because you're buying a used copy of the game instead of buying a new copy and thus increasing their profits.
This is not a value judgement on the "ethics" of buying used vs. new, or whether developers are being hurt in an unreasonable manner, but it's silly to deny that used games don't cut into developer profit margins.
i'd say it's silly to argue that it does. a person trying to buy used isn't interested in buying new, so if they never had the intent to buy new it is not a sale lost. companies can try and cry over it like it's a problem, but the reality is people will buy used or not at all. this isn't a sale lost, it's a sale that would have never happened.
It's interesting that that's basically the argument people make for why piracy doesn't hurt a game developer. I'm not personally equating buying used with piracy, just find it interesting.
but see the main difference there is one is stealing, and the other is a copy of a game that has already made the company money. one has already been paid for, so they are not losing a sale. in fact they should be happy more people tried their game, because it could mean more sales in the future if they enjoyed the game and figured they would pay full price for it's sequel/DLC/merchandise.
The Used market encourages new game sales. A person can buy a $60 game and resell it after their done for $20-$35 (at retail) or more (online), essentially chopping the "new" game price by half. Another way to look at it is buying new at $60, reselling it to get money back, and using said money to go towards another new game. You might say, but putting a used copy on the shelf subtracts an otherwise new sale; to that I believe that if a person is willing to save five bucks, and loses that option, he'll probably just wait until the new games go on sale/price drop or bargain bin anyway, after the crucial initial sales period of the game is over.
Others have mentioned, but my favorite aspect of Used games sections at Gamestop or online is that I can buy older games I've missed. I still buy the occasional PS2 game, for instance. They're not still stocking new copies of a lot of last gen games. Hell, they're not still stocking a lot of older, current gen games!
Developer's are selfish( not you of course! :P), in the fact that all they care about is someone is buying THEIR game used, meaning they get no money. The bigger picture eludes them.
It's interesting that that's basically the argument people make for why piracy doesn't hurt a game developer. I'm not personally equating buying used with piracy, just find it interesting.
Edit: Damn, beaten.
Yeah, I think that argument holds a lot more water for piracy, because there's no monetary exchange whatsoever involved with piracy; you're just downloading a file for free.
I'm a bit skeptical that the same argument can universally be applied to used games sales, as a used game sale still involves you walking into a B&M store with cash in hand.
I do wonder how devs perceive used game sales as compared to piracy, seeing as they make no money off of either.
but see the main difference there is one is stealing, and the other is a copy of a game that has already made the company money. one has already been paid for, so they are not losing a sale. in fact they should be happy more people tried their game, because it could mean more sales in the future if they enjoyed the game and figured they would pay full price for it's sequel/DLC/merchandise.
Piracy should never be an acceptable option to buying new/used games. I don't even think it is a proper comparison because NO ONE will get money if someone pirates a product.
The only conceivable way I feel comfortable with piracy is this: The game you want to buy does not have a demo. You pirate it to try the game, and like it enough to purchase it.
you're underestimating how expensive games are and how much people like to save money. if i have only $30 for my purchase i'm not going to wait until i have more money and buy new, i buy used to save some cash.
used sales can generate extra revenue in ways that piracy can't.
just as an example: lets say billy has a game he bought new, played through, and no longer spends any time with. same game company comes out with new game, billy wants it. but billy doesn't have enough money to buy it, so what does he do? he sells his old game to someone used for half price. that money then goes towards the new game.
so in essence that one sale generated 50% more revenue than if billy had never sold it.
i'd say it's silly to argue that it does. a person trying to buy used isn't interested in buying new, so if they never had the intent to buy new it is not a sale lost. companies can try and cry over it like it's a problem, but the reality is people will buy used or not at all. this isn't a sale lost, it's a sale that would have never happened.
I can't say I've ever heard of someone who would choose to buy a used game over a new game if the prices were equal, unless it's some sort of spite purchase. That is to say I think it's silly to argue that a person willing to buy used isn't interested in buying new. Said person simple made a decision that they were willing to pay the used price of $X, give up the included passes/DLC for new copies, and were unwilling to wait for the new price to reach that price point. Yes the used price will drop with the new but the argument is still applicable.
i'd say it's silly to argue that it does. a person trying to buy used isn't interested in buying new, so if they never had the intent to buy new it is not a sale lost. companies can try and cry over it like it's a problem, but the reality is people will buy used or not at all. this isn't a sale lost, it's a sale that would have never happened.
I can't say I've ever heard of someone who would choose to buy a used game over a new game if the prices were equal, unless it's some sort of spite purchase. That is to say I think it's silly to argue that a person willing to buy used isn't interested in buying new. Said person simple made a decision that they were willing to pay the used price of $X, give up the included passes/DLC for new copies, and were unwilling to wait for the new price to reach that price point. Yes the used price will drop with the new but the argument is still applicable.
of course but the savings on buying used may be the deciding factor in purchases. i don't buy used because i want it that way, it's solely to save cash. of course i'd go for new over used if they cost the same, but this is very rarely the case.
Used sales hurt developers, arguing that the buyer would never buy new is unrelated. If the used copy was unavailable, then the customer would buy a new copy, thus the presence of the used copy reduces the income of the developer.
I do not think that it is entirely unreasonable for developers to try to encourage people to buy new, but I do think they are going about it entirely the wrong way. Essentially, their current system makes installing games more difficult and annoying for all buyers, instead of rewarding the new buyer for their support of the developer. Once developers find a way to make it seem like buying new is a choice that leads to a reward instead of trying to punish people for buying used, I think we will have a better solution. I believe there was an Extra Credits that talked about this situation with more detail and insight than my garbled explanation.
I would also like to voice my support for a digital distribution system for consoles, as I think giving customers the option of buying the games through a download system would help everyone involved. Developers get to capture more of the market after a title has launched without the overhead of printing and shipping more copies, and customers get reduced price and convenience. I'm a bit leery of doing away with physical copies, but I feel like giving customers a digital option would be great for everyone.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
The concern with losing your Steam games is a moot point. Valve has stated that if it were to ever shut down Steam, all DRM will be patched out beforehand. And seeing as you can easily back up your games now and even play in offline mode, there should be no worry.
What if your backup was lost/damaged/etc? I can ask the same question about your physical disc games.
There's no requirement that valve do this, though; in the hypothetically likely event that a valve bankruptcy ended in a firesale of their assets to another entity, the outcome becomes even less clear.
The beef here isn't with Valve (which seems to be a relatively good, consumer-oriented company), it's that everyone isn't required to behave the way Valve says they will.
Fine, but you can back up your content now, switch to offline mode, and play DRM free forever. Then in 20 years if Steam goes under, it doesn't matter.
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Okay, but saying you got a game for 60% off on Black Friday does not mean that "new prices drop so fast now." New prices on console games (which is what this thread is about, not Steam/PC games) do not drop that fast, unless they're really bad.
However, with the success of Steam and the fact that distro costs are reduced to a negligible amount by services such as Steam, it's a valid point as the industry is headed in that direction.
There are numerous other examples of new games selling for 33+% off of MSRP very shortly after they come out. For most of last year, Amazon was giving out $20 credits and free shipping on pretty much every pre-order. Spending like 10 minutes a week on CAG can save you lots of money.
Lately, Newegg has been trying to sell more games and have been listing a lot of big-time preorders at $48 or less (20% off), for example.
You buy a new console 3 or 4 years into its life cycle, and you see that there are a few critically acclaimed but low selling games; they're no longer being printed. What are you going to do? That's why I love used games. Not because of the prices, but because I can always be assured of finding a copy, whether it's on a new system or on the Sega Saturn.
There is no used game market on PC, so a thread about the used game market (and how developers/publishers are fighting against it) is about console games.
i prefer physical copies of my games because even if my console does crap out i can invest in a new one and still play my games (i've gone through like 2 dreamcasts and 4 PS2's). i'm looking for assurance my money isn't going down the drain, even if it is far off. i still have my original SNES and all the games i had when i was younger, but an all digital system does not have that kind of advantage.
And as far as a company going under, well, the sky is falling and all that.
Stuff like used games are a niche issue right now, but in the long run as digital formats proliferate and companies get better at managing them, we're going to have to confront questions of format shifting, and broader topics like "do we still want to have libraries?"
There isn't any movement in a positive direction on this right now because most of the stakeholders are still young (and thus have little money/influence) and most legislators are old (and therefore don't know wtf digital media even means, most of the time), but that will change.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
There is an "Off line mode" for steam that allows you to play your games without being online
You're assuming 2 things happen on the same day:
1) Your hard drive containing your gaming library crashes and you never made a backup
2) On the same day steam shuts down. Meaning you can't download the games on your new hard drive.
What are the odds?
I don't really use my steam account very much (mostly to occasionally find cheap old games for nostalgia reasons) so it isn't a big deal for me, but if I were one of these people who have hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in steam, and valve went out of business, I'd (potentially) be pretty annoyed. I'm not worried about it happening like, tomorrow, but in 20 years? Who knows.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Like DRM rage, consumer input does sway policy, but only if there's a LOT of it.
Unlike Nintendo and Microsoft, they actually have plenty of sales on digital content.
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Steam has brought back old DOS games by pre-configuring DOSBOX to run it in Windows 7 and then making it easy to get. Other services exist such as GOG and whatnot, but Steam is my only vector for buying PC games now (The odd exception, such as BF3, does occur, however) and buying old games that I threw out the discs to because Windows just simply wouldn't work with them any more is a wonderful thing.
If giving up physical media meant that the PS4 had the entire libraries of the PS1, 2 and 3 available for it at launch, would you buy a PS4?
It will have a disc drive. It has to.
adj.
n.
A hypothetical circumstance, condition, scenario, or situation: OK, let's consider this possibility just as a hypothetical.
So long as they take the Steam approach and tie purchases to accounts and not hardware. >.>
And Turkey? Did you say that Microsoft doesn't do much sales for digital content?
What?
What if your backup was lost/damaged/etc? I can ask the same question about your physical disc games.
They have weekly sales, but the amount of content on sale pales in comparison to the amount PSN has every week. They also seem more averse to permanent price drops on older digital releases.
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Others have mentioned, but my favorite aspect of Used games sections at Gamestop or online is that I can buy older games I've missed. I still buy the occasional PS2 game, for instance. They're not still stocking new copies of a lot of last gen games. Hell, they're not still stocking a lot of older, current gen games!
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I thought you meant sales as in 'units sold'.
That may be, but it won't likely be the case forever. Steam pretty aggressively marks down titles and if PSN does as well, then there will be a lot of pressure on Microsoft to do the same on Live if it's their main revenue source for the XBox.
Of course, they may not. At this point it's kind of moot.
And I'm still resistant to buying a PS3 simply because Sony are arrogant douches. :P But I'll probably be getting one soon since the life cycle is in it's final couple years.
There's no requirement that valve do this, though; in the hypothetically likely event that a valve bankruptcy ended in a firesale of their assets to another entity, the outcome becomes even less clear.
The beef here isn't with Valve (which seems to be a relatively good, consumer-oriented company), it's that everyone isn't required to behave the way Valve says they will.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The prices are a bit more fluid these days, as retailers fight for relevance in an increasingly online market. I mean, Toys R US is selling SSX and Amalur for $44.99 and they're not even out yet.
Indeed. Used merchandise increases the value of new merchandise because the user can get something out of it once they're done with.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Yeah, it does hurt developers, because you're buying a used copy of the game instead of buying a new copy and thus increasing their profits.
This is not a value judgement on the "ethics" of buying used vs. new, or whether developers are being hurt in unreasonable amounts, but it's silly to deny that used games cut into developer profit margins.
couldn't the person you buy it from turn around and use that money for a new game?
That argument can much more easily be made with piracy, I think. I can't speak for you, but from my own personal experience, while many people I know may opt for used because it's cheaper, if they aren't presented with an option to buy used they'll just get the new version of the game. I do it myself on occasion.
It's interesting that that's basically the argument people make for why piracy doesn't hurt a game developer. I'm not personally equating buying used with piracy, just find it interesting.
Edit: Damn, beaten.
Developer's are selfish( not you of course! :P), in the fact that all they care about is someone is buying THEIR game used, meaning they get no money. The bigger picture eludes them.
Yeah, I think that argument holds a lot more water for piracy, because there's no monetary exchange whatsoever involved with piracy; you're just downloading a file for free.
I'm a bit skeptical that the same argument can universally be applied to used games sales, as a used game sale still involves you walking into a B&M store with cash in hand.
I do wonder how devs perceive used game sales as compared to piracy, seeing as they make no money off of either.
You can see the failed logic here, right?
The only conceivable way I feel comfortable with piracy is this: The game you want to buy does not have a demo. You pirate it to try the game, and like it enough to purchase it.
just as an example: lets say billy has a game he bought new, played through, and no longer spends any time with. same game company comes out with new game, billy wants it. but billy doesn't have enough money to buy it, so what does he do? he sells his old game to someone used for half price. that money then goes towards the new game.
so in essence that one sale generated 50% more revenue than if billy had never sold it.
I can't say I've ever heard of someone who would choose to buy a used game over a new game if the prices were equal, unless it's some sort of spite purchase. That is to say I think it's silly to argue that a person willing to buy used isn't interested in buying new. Said person simple made a decision that they were willing to pay the used price of $X, give up the included passes/DLC for new copies, and were unwilling to wait for the new price to reach that price point. Yes the used price will drop with the new but the argument is still applicable.
of course but the savings on buying used may be the deciding factor in purchases. i don't buy used because i want it that way, it's solely to save cash. of course i'd go for new over used if they cost the same, but this is very rarely the case.
I do not think that it is entirely unreasonable for developers to try to encourage people to buy new, but I do think they are going about it entirely the wrong way. Essentially, their current system makes installing games more difficult and annoying for all buyers, instead of rewarding the new buyer for their support of the developer. Once developers find a way to make it seem like buying new is a choice that leads to a reward instead of trying to punish people for buying used, I think we will have a better solution. I believe there was an Extra Credits that talked about this situation with more detail and insight than my garbled explanation.
I would also like to voice my support for a digital distribution system for consoles, as I think giving customers the option of buying the games through a download system would help everyone involved. Developers get to capture more of the market after a title has launched without the overhead of printing and shipping more copies, and customers get reduced price and convenience. I'm a bit leery of doing away with physical copies, but I feel like giving customers a digital option would be great for everyone.
Fine, but you can back up your content now, switch to offline mode, and play DRM free forever. Then in 20 years if Steam goes under, it doesn't matter.