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Official I Hate [Final Fantasy] Thread: Dead like FF XIV's userbase. New thread.
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I don't know...at this point I'm more interested in FFXIII-3 than I am Versus which until they do something to the contrary is pretty much vaporware to me.
They keep insisting it still exists, so that's something I have to take on faith unless proven otherwise.
I really wanted to wait until I finished the game, but I've yet to look up a good place to grind for the final boss, so I'll state the obvious: FFXIII-2 has the worst story in the entire series.
It might, in fact, have the worst RPG story of all time. Tied with Infinite Undiscovery at least.
It has nothing to do with the plot being nonsensical or not....well okay it does matter.
But it's just stupidly told. All of it.
They could have at least had some fun with the concept. Maybe some genre savvy lines or something. Instead, Noel and Serah constantly nod their heads to every stupid time travel concept and are all "Hmm, yes, I completely understand this thing you are telling me. No, I have no personal opinion to give."
Yes, the story of XIII-2 is pretty bad.
But the gameplay is very good, the soundtrack is fantastic, and Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
No, I'm not going to go on an anti-FF crusade or any such nonsense. But I will officially put the company under the same level of appreciation that I do with Sega.
In that everything they make from here on will be assumed as mediocre first, pleasant surprise if not.
How long before Nomura quits and forms his own not-Square company?
Edit: Kagari of GAF says that Versus was planned recently to show up on TGS 2012, so....rumor.
Seeing how this is the sort of shitstorm SE would like to avoid, it would be great if they confirmed or denied this.
Except they won't, people will bitch (harder than I am, currently), etc etc.
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
This keeps up Squeenix is going to end up probably slaving out the heavy lifting of their own games to western devs like Capcom and Konami have been doing. Baseless assumption to be sure but one has to wonder what's been going on over there. We haven't even heard from Nomura in a while assuming they still dont' have him working on 6 different things at once.
I miss the old constant of there being at least one fair to good final fantasy in a hardware generation. I know "opinions" and all that jazz, but I felt like Square really shit the bed this time around. With a lot of stuff.
From the outside looking in it's like they're so wrapped up trying to create their next "Final Fantasy 7" that they lost track of how to just make enjoyable games with enjoyable little stories.
considering sega has done some of the better games lately, and most everything published or developed under SE sans.3rd.birthday and Lord of Arcana has been actually really good lately...
Giving up on them now because they might have shelved what was more and more looking like a crap ff 13 fmvfest seems kind of odd.
I really think SE could improve massively as a company if they just worked to get rid of some really terrible people who continue to work there, followed by finally swallowing up their piece of shit pride and let Western devs handle their "sacred series".
This shit doesn't mean "American Final Fantasy", it just means not waiting nearly a decade for the next halfway decent game.
I wish to holy hell they just stuck with Unreal engine. I'm playing The Last Remnant now on PC and it still looks plenty good. Maybe if Versus was an Unreal game they'd have it out by now.
Remember that FFX HD? No news on that either.
Seriously, stop taking so unbelievably fucking long with your games. DO SOMETHING to change this policy, because normal devs do not work this way.
Man, I've been replaying all the Final Fantasies on my PS3 that can be played in the build up for FFX HD. I'm already in the Rift in Final Fantasy V. Make haste, Squeenix!
Or alternatively, don't announce things until you can give an approximate month of release along with it.
God help me, I don't know why, but I began playing 4 Heroes of Light again...
I think I've said this before, but if the graphics weren't drop dead gorgeous... I mean everything else drives me nuts. That you can't aim in battle. That you almost can't carry anything. That companions leave all the fucking time for the most stupid reasons. And now that I've begun playing again, I've grown to loathe the difficulty level.
Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I got to the merchant city where they shower you in gold. Upgraded items like crazy and actually finally felt like I was at the top of the food chain. And then, again, companions not only leave, but you switch character. And the difficulty just goes up the wall again, and not only that, but there is no upgrade shop.
Does anyone remember this part of the game? It's at the white tree and I'm a bloody cat (which ties in with the stupid reasons for companions to leave, because the story is also stupid). An NPC said that monsters are vulnerable to fire and another said they will silence you, but still they ignore black magic (fire, but the bow worked, for some reason) and once you get deep enough in the tree, they both blind and sleep you, just as often as they silence you.
I'm tearing my hair out, because I've thrown out a couple of 30 min dungeon runs now where I get to the third level and then it's just *blind* *sleep* and dead. Start over.
Is this the most brutal FF game since the first three, I wonder?
eobet on
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
If they just used Unreal, it'd look no where near as good as FFXIII did on the consoles.
Thats the thing. They make fantastic looking games on consoles. Not PCs. It takes entire custome engines to do that. Unreal games look like ass on consoles.
Maybe some day they'll learn that photo realistic graphics dont matter and its art direction and style that matters more (What I'd give for another game as sexy as Legend of Mana.)
considering sega has done some of the better games lately, and most everything published or developed under SE sans.3rd.birthday and Lord of Arcana has been actually really good lately...
Giving up on them now because they might have shelved what was more and more looking like a crap ff 13 fmvfest seems kind of odd.
Haha yeah, "I'll put them on the same level as the company that recently released Binary Domain, VF5 Final Showdown, TW: Shogun 2: FotS and PSO2 in Japan". Wow, what an indictment.
I really think SE could improve massively as a company if they just worked to get rid of some really terrible people who continue to work there, followed by finally swallowing up their piece of shit pride and let Western devs handle their "sacred series".
This shit doesn't mean "American Final Fantasy", it just means not waiting nearly a decade for the next halfway decent game.
I wish to holy hell they just stuck with Unreal engine. I'm playing The Last Remnant now on PC and it still looks plenty good. Maybe if Versus was an Unreal game they'd have it out by now.
Remember that FFX HD? No news on that either.
Seriously, stop taking so unbelievably fucking long with your games. DO SOMETHING to change this policy, because normal devs do not work this way.
These rants of yours get really tiring because they're the same thing repeated over and over. It's always "Square Enix would be saved if they fired Toriyama", even though he's one of 3 directors on the series (4 if we're including Nomura), is the only guy in the company releasing HD games on a decent time frame, is apparently liked by Square Enix management because he's easy to work with and really isn't responsible for all that much. If you want someone higher up to blame, you should probably take a look at Wada.
Continuing to work on UE3 would've been stupid. First off, chocobolicious is right, FFXIII wouldn't have looked as good if it were running on UE3. Second, they started off making PS3 exclusive games and UE3 has never been that good on it (in fact it was horrendous for the PS3's first couple of years, which is why the Last Remnant PS3 port was cancelled). Third, it's even more difficult for Japanese companies to use it because the documentation and support has never really been there (which is why there are barely any Japanese games that use it). And last, UE3 wouldn't have changed much. Their games don't take forever because they're busy building the engine, they take forever because their games just HAVE to be the prettiest, so they spend an insane amount of time and money creating all their art assets. THAT is the problem with the company. If they were happy to just throw out fugly, broken games like Bethesda, I'm sure we would've had Versus on our shelves years ago.
Don't get me wrong, trying to develop three games simultaneously while their engine wasn't even in a working state was an incredibly dumb idea. But at this point, neither Versus or XIV (2.0) will be using Crystal Tools anyway. And if things go according to plan, the Luminous engine will be ready right when the next gen hits and they'll have that issue sorted.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Final Fantasy 1313
(c wut i did thur)
:^: Though I feel like it needs a little more legitimacy, so it'll have to be:
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Final Fantasy 1313
(c wut i did thur)
:^: Though I feel like it needs a little more legitimacy, so it'll have to be:
Tom Clancy's Final Fantasy 1313
Now with 300% more on-disc DLC.
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
Let me remind you that SquareEnix has already handed Front Mission over to a Western Developer once already. I'd rather they not continue down that path.
Let me remind you that SquareEnix has already handed Front Mission over to a Western Developer once already. I'd rather they not continue down that path.
And Grin was working on a Final Fantasy game. Possibly some sort of spinoff of 12.
So Square has tried outsourcing to Western devs like Capcom does, but I don't think they like the results.
If they just used Unreal, it'd look no where near as good as FFXIII did on the consoles.
Thats the thing. They make fantastic looking games on consoles. Not PCs. It takes entire custome engines to do that. Unreal games look like ass on consoles.
Maybe some day they'll learn that photo realistic graphics dont matter and its art direction and style that matters more (What I'd give for another game as sexy as Legend of Mana.)
Bloody hell, what a beautiful game in absolutely every way. I loved exploring the world and sometimes I'd just stand there listening to the music.
As Unco pointed out, Square's problem is that their games HAVE to be AAA. I don't mind FFXIII-3 but I figure if you want more games like FF5/6 you'd better follow Square's mobile output. Here's hoping they announce a release date soon for FFD.
Just finished 13-2. I was pretty happy with it. It's everything 13-1 should have been. Wish the storylines of the two games wern't so disparate, though. Having the whole Fal'cie/L'cie threads from the first game dropped entirely was pretty wierd.
Only thing I didn't quite get was why Caius had/could transform into Bahamut. Wasn't that Fang's eidolon? How'd he get it?
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Just finished 13-2. I was pretty happy with it. It's everything 13-1 should have been. Wish the storylines of the two games wern't so disparate, though. Having the whole Fal'cie/L'cie threads from the first game dropped entirely was pretty wierd.
Only thing I didn't quite get was why Caius had/could transform into Bahamut. Wasn't that Fang's eidolon? How'd he get it?
It was Chaos Bahamut, which is a different guy. (I guess?)
Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
URrrghhhh ok I'm going to bite and completely disagree with you.
Noel is confident and has a goal. He's well written too. I'm VERY glad that the developers did not do a "But I want to love Serah too!" plot with him. Serah and Noel both are some of the more self-aware characters I've seen. They don't futz around. They actually figure things out and take action to fix it. Noel is a combination of the best of Tidus and Auron (oh god did I just type that?)
Caius, on the other hand...best character? I disagree completely. He has absolutely NO personality in the game. He's your typical "If I can't save xxx, I will destroy the world/universe/time/all things" character. He, he's a very good big bad, but don't try to tell me he has any character. In fact the only real character development he gets is through reading the notes about him on the fragment skills.
tl;dr: Noel is not a JRPG stereotype. Caius is the epitome of a JRPG stereotype.
Yeah, the buddy cop relationship between Noel and Serah is one of the best parts of X-2. I'm glad Noel was written as a mature and focused male character unlike how he first looked. I would have been pretty angry at the writers if he started trying to romance Serah and they broke off the whole Snow thing (as silly as the guy is).
I think his best line was when he was being cryptic about the future due to his hazy memory... and then flat out apologizes because he doesn't want to be a cryptic ass about it.
I'm glad they hung a lampshade on that.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
URrrghhhh ok I'm going to bite and completely disagree with you.
Noel is confident and has a goal. He's well written too. I'm VERY glad that the developers did not do a "But I want to love Serah too!" plot with him. Serah and Noel both are some of the more self-aware characters I've seen. They don't futz around. They actually figure things out and take action to fix it. Noel is a combination of the best of Tidus and Auron (oh god did I just type that?)
Caius, on the other hand...best character? I disagree completely. He has absolutely NO personality in the game. He's your typical "If I can't save xxx, I will destroy the world/universe/time/all things" character. He, he's a very good big bad, but don't try to tell me he has any character. In fact the only real character development he gets is through reading the notes about him on the fragment skills.
tl;dr: Noel is not a JRPG stereotype. Caius is the epitome of a JRPG stereotype.
the best part of caius' character is early interaction with him when you see he's basically a good guy and how you watch him change throughout time is a big part of why he makes a good villain I think.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Final Fantasy 1313
(c wut i did thur)
:^: Though I feel like it needs a little more legitimacy, so it'll have to be:
Tom Clancy's Final Fantasy 1313
Now with 300% more on-disc DLC.
This includes Russian Ultranationalist Mercenary missions, right?
Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
URrrghhhh ok I'm going to bite and completely disagree with you.
Noel is confident and has a goal. He's well written too. I'm VERY glad that the developers did not do a "But I want to love Serah too!" plot with him. Serah and Noel both are some of the more self-aware characters I've seen. They don't futz around. They actually figure things out and take action to fix it. Noel is a combination of the best of Tidus and Auron (oh god did I just type that?)
Caius, on the other hand...best character? I disagree completely. He has absolutely NO personality in the game. He's your typical "If I can't save xxx, I will destroy the world/universe/time/all things" character. He, he's a very good big bad, but don't try to tell me he has any character. In fact the only real character development he gets is through reading the notes about him on the fragment skills.
tl;dr: Noel is not a JRPG stereotype. Caius is the epitome of a JRPG stereotype.
the best part of caius' character is early interaction with him when you see he's basically a good guy and how you watch him change throughout time is a big part of why he makes a good villain I think.
I can't remember any early interaction with him where he's a good guy, though. I remember the intro movie. Caius is set to destroy. The next moment after that that I remember is the first time he fights you. He gives no explanation besides "You're destroying the timeline." Serah and Noel basically say "wait, what? we're trying to fix it! Tell us what's going on!" Caius attacks without explaining a damn thing. This happens at least a couple more times.
Later in the game you finally see some flashback/scenes where it shows that Caius originally had noble goals, but by that time, it's pounded into your head that he's your typical irrational villain.
Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
URrrghhhh ok I'm going to bite and completely disagree with you.
Noel is confident and has a goal. He's well written too. I'm VERY glad that the developers did not do a "But I want to love Serah too!" plot with him. Serah and Noel both are some of the more self-aware characters I've seen. They don't futz around. They actually figure things out and take action to fix it. Noel is a combination of the best of Tidus and Auron (oh god did I just type that?)
Caius, on the other hand...best character? I disagree completely. He has absolutely NO personality in the game. He's your typical "If I can't save xxx, I will destroy the world/universe/time/all things" character. He, he's a very good big bad, but don't try to tell me he has any character. In fact the only real character development he gets is through reading the notes about him on the fragment skills.
tl;dr: Noel is not a JRPG stereotype. Caius is the epitome of a JRPG stereotype.
the best part of caius' character is early interaction with him when you see he's basically a good guy and how you watch him change throughout time is a big part of why he makes a good villain I think.
I can't remember any early interaction with him where he's a good guy, though. I remember the intro movie. Caius is set to destroy. The next moment after that that I remember is the first time he fights you. He gives no explanation besides "You're destroying the timeline." Serah and Noel basically say "wait, what? we're trying to fix it! Tell us what's going on!" Caius attacks without explaining a damn thing. This happens at least a couple more times.
Later in the game you finally see some flashback/scenes where it shows that Caius originally had noble goals, but by that time, it's pounded into your head that he's your typical irrational villain.
I don't remember what happened/was said but i had a definite noble ideas vibe from him the first time noel/serah fight him. he seemed like a time cop to me at the time.
I thought Caius motives were pretty well explained. As I progressed the story I felt lots of sympathy for his plight, even if I still had to take him down. In a game where I hated most of the hammy dialogue, I found his to fit well, considering that he's this semi-eternal being.
Granted, a lot of my love for him was probably because his character was basically Nier.
These rants of yours get really tiring because they're the same thing repeated over and over. It's always "Square Enix would be saved if they fired Toriyama", even though he's one of 3 directors on the series (4 if we're including Nomura), is the only guy in the company releasing HD games on a decent time frame, is apparently liked by Square Enix management because he's easy to work with and really isn't responsible for all that much. If you want someone higher up to blame, you should probably take a look at Wada.
I said "terrible people". Plural.
Toriyama may be a terrible writer, but I certainly can't blame him for the continued delays and cut-backs that have been plaguing the series this gen. I doubt he was the one who said "HD towns were too hard" or "these linear corridors will remind people of Call of Duty".
I do think Wada deserves much of the blame, as he was apparently one of the top people who decide "ship out FFXIV as is". But according to AP, the company would be financially fucked by now if it wasn't for him, so this is argumentative.
But AP also attested that there are internal conflicts within the company between stubborn people who won't adapt to the new age of game development and those that want to evolve. The former is the bloat that needs to be removed, the way I'm hearing.
First off, chocobolicious is right, FFXIII wouldn't have looked as good if it were running on UE3.
Subjective here, but Lost Odyssey looks pretty darn fantastic, and probably took less than half of the resources it took to make FFXIII, not to mention half the time.[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, trying to develop three games simultaneously while their engine wasn't even in a working state was an incredibly dumb idea. But at this point, neither Versus or XIV (2.0) will be using Crystal Tools anyway.
Versus was last reported to still be using Crystal Tools, mixed with an alpha/beta version of Luminous to handle the lighting. FFXIV is dumping CT completely as Yoshi-P has flat-out called the engine a piece of shit.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Yeah.....again, outsourcing an FF game to a Western dev is not the same as having it be "Western influenced". It's merely having the teams who are clearly more talented than they currently are to handle all the high-res graphic effects, textures and other resources that take them nearly an entire console generation to nail down.
Ubisoft outsources the AC games to like 5 studios every year. The process works.
I don't feel like responding to anything else but by "Ubisoft outsources the AC games to like 5 studios" you mean Ubisoft "outsources" the AC games to various internal studios that work together to build different parts of the past two AC games, then yeah, that's true.
But the idea they just hand a game to Capcom or some different developer is not true.
Well I am, of course, suggesting that they outsource their games to the studios they own. Namely Eidos and such.
Nintendo has been doing a lot of outsourcing lately, as well. It's pretty much the best possible method to getting these ludicrously expensive HD games out.
Don't be surprised if Nintendo can't handle Wii U Zelda on their own.
Well I am, of course, suggesting that they outsource their games to the studios they own. Namely Eidos and such.
Nintendo has been doing a lot of outsourcing lately, as well. It's pretty much the best possible method to getting these ludicrously expensive HD games out.
Don't be surprised if Nintendo can't handle Wii U Zelda on their own.
I think the suggestion of Nintendo's outsourcing, lately, will conjure in peoples minds Metroid Other M, the apparently not yet begun next Smash Brothers; or internal ones like Kid Icarus (which I can't really comment on but I know it had some pretty mixed reactions)
Out/in-sourcing isn't a sure-fire solution and you're just as likely to get a shit product as you are doing it internally (wasn't there a recent Resident Evil that was contracted out and turned into complete garbage?). It's pretty naive to assume that it would somehow produce better games internally if they could just have someone else do the "extra" stuff. And "extra" stuff is pretty subjective. You may have hated XIII/XIII-2, but many people did not, they both sold well and particularly XIII-2 got great critical reception. Nothing about that is going to make SE inclined to outsource these things.
Should they have contracted some other developer to pick up slack and get things in order on the (rumored) cancelled Versus? Maybe. But SE, maybe more than any other company than Nintendo is all about self-honor and control. Both companies are more likely to pick up developers in order to have them do work, as opposed to outright contracting them to do so. This creates all sorts of issues.
Sure, sometimes you get a Retro and the excellent Metroid Prime games. But that's not always the case and Nintendo took a pretty big damn risk with that one.
I just don't think there's some magic wand that can be waved on what you perceive as a problem with SE right now. And I don't think your view, by any means, is consensus. Eidos was probably the best purchase SE has made in ever, and has been putting out good stuff. And you may not like recent SE entries, but that doesn't mean others don't and that they're not selling well. Yeah, I can go to Kotaku and be bombarded with their shitty bloggers/non-journalists bitching about the same things you are; but they're in no more position than you to have some say in the matter. And if anything at this point, the sort of absurdly strong reactions that are popping out more and more these days out of places like that (and around here even) come across as less reasoned and more just childish petulance of not getting exactly what you want.
Of course the redonkulous rose colored glasses people seem to have about old Square/SE games doesn't help anything. Shit, there's an article right now on Kotaku bitching about FFIV: The After Years calling it rehashed tripe as if FFIV was some profound game. Sure, it was above and beyond pretty much any other JRPG at the time, but its story is, by literary standards, complete tripe and horribly shallow. I say that with IV being my second favorite FF behind X; but that's less because of how amazing it is and more to do with it blowing my mind as a child. I mean, really; name another FF than VI that doesn't get as much hate and bitching as any other FF. Maybe 1? Maybe IV? The rest? They hae just as much vitriol pointed to them as XIII does.
SE can't win here. And attempting to go back to some so-called golden age, in development and style, isn't going to do them any favors either. When people act like they should, it just makes me think of people who whine about politics, and the state of the USA and wishing for "better days", completely unaware that those better days consisted of things like never ending wars, segregation, cold war fear propaganda, etc. Yes, that's probably an unnecessary comparison to make, but lets be real here. The solution to SE's problems aren't to go back in time.
Never mind that using FFXIII--a modern, recent release--as the basis for a remake makes infinitely more sense from a financial standpoint than, say, a FFVII remake or even another FFVII-spinoff on the PS3/Xbox 360, which will carry with it the same high production expectations.
And I say this as someone who could be grossly overcharged for a FFVII remake and wouldn't mind.
EDIT: Resident Evil: ORC was outsourced to Canadian studio Slant Six Games, which has now become the explanation as to why it sucked out loud. I don't know if it's accurate (it's not the first stinker Capcom put out), but it's there.
In Assassin's Creed's case, it seems to be the only option, not the desirable one, when they feel the need to churn out a new game once a year, alongside DLC.
On the other hand, Square's more modest efforts and 2d games tend to be far more profitable then their big budget outings.
So take what you will of that, but claiming that it's wanting some 'golden age' that doesn't exist, when games exist to the exact contrary of that statement (And do well.) seems more to be wishing progress where it isn't needed. FFIV after years did so good it not only got re-released, they redid the original game to match it and add in an interlude. Because the games make so much money even with modest sales.
As for FFIV's story being shallow tripe: So is, by literary standards, Tolkien. He even wrote it specifically that way. It's still one of the best loved stories in the world at this point. Go figure, eh?
The simplest stories are the most memorable. I think that's where a lot of Square's problems stem from. They try too hard. I could give you a point to point for every scene in FF1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6. Once you get to 7 and up though, they start trying to be some super complex orchestration and I can remember the primary points, but a lot of the details are lost or forgotten or just not important. (6 probably suffers from this too, for a lot of people, but all my love, etc, etc.)
If FF Dimensions doesn't make 20x the money it takes to produce, I'd eat a hat.
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I really wanted to wait until I finished the game, but I've yet to look up a good place to grind for the final boss, so I'll state the obvious: FFXIII-2 has the worst story in the entire series.
It might, in fact, have the worst RPG story of all time. Tied with Infinite Undiscovery at least.
It has nothing to do with the plot being nonsensical or not....well okay it does matter.
But it's just stupidly told. All of it.
They could have at least had some fun with the concept. Maybe some genre savvy lines or something. Instead, Noel and Serah constantly nod their heads to every stupid time travel concept and are all "Hmm, yes, I completely understand this thing you are telling me. No, I have no personal opinion to give."
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But the gameplay is very good, the soundtrack is fantastic, and Noel is one of the better male character's they've had in the series.
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I hear this a lot.
What exactly makes him great?
At best, he's inoffensive. But I hardly consider him to be a well-written main character, or even a memorable one.
With Noel I feel they're just "playing it safe". He has no distinguishing character traits, positive or negative.
The best character by far was Caius. They had a prime opportunity to do something fresh by making him the main character. His partner was dull, but he would have still been more entertaining to follow around.
But honestly, how could they have messed this up so bad? All FFXIII-2 needed was Lightning vs the remaining Fal'Cies. It would be like Goddess of War. That's an entertaining sequel right there!
But what do you expect? This is the same man who singlehandedly killed the Parasite Eve series forever. Unless the next one is a do-over or Third Birthday was "a dream", the amount of damage done can never be undone.
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http://kotaku.com/5927645/rumor-final-fantasy-versus-xiii-is-dead?utm_campaign=socialflow_kotaku_twitter&utm_source=kotaku_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
But if it is true, then I'm done.
No, I'm not going to go on an anti-FF crusade or any such nonsense. But I will officially put the company under the same level of appreciation that I do with Sega.
In that everything they make from here on will be assumed as mediocre first, pleasant surprise if not.
How long before Nomura quits and forms his own not-Square company?
Edit: Kagari of GAF says that Versus was planned recently to show up on TGS 2012, so....rumor.
Seeing how this is the sort of shitstorm SE would like to avoid, it would be great if they confirmed or denied this.
Except they won't, people will bitch (harder than I am, currently), etc etc.
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I miss the old constant of there being at least one fair to good final fantasy in a hardware generation. I know "opinions" and all that jazz, but I felt like Square really shit the bed this time around. With a lot of stuff.
From the outside looking in it's like they're so wrapped up trying to create their next "Final Fantasy 7" that they lost track of how to just make enjoyable games with enjoyable little stories.
"...only mights and maybes."
Giving up on them now because they might have shelved what was more and more looking like a crap ff 13 fmvfest seems kind of odd.
This shit doesn't mean "American Final Fantasy", it just means not waiting nearly a decade for the next halfway decent game.
I wish to holy hell they just stuck with Unreal engine. I'm playing The Last Remnant now on PC and it still looks plenty good. Maybe if Versus was an Unreal game they'd have it out by now.
Remember that FFX HD? No news on that either.
Seriously, stop taking so unbelievably fucking long with your games. DO SOMETHING to change this policy, because normal devs do not work this way.
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Or alternatively, don't announce things until you can give an approximate month of release along with it.
I think I've said this before, but if the graphics weren't drop dead gorgeous... I mean everything else drives me nuts. That you can't aim in battle. That you almost can't carry anything. That companions leave all the fucking time for the most stupid reasons. And now that I've begun playing again, I've grown to loathe the difficulty level.
Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I got to the merchant city where they shower you in gold. Upgraded items like crazy and actually finally felt like I was at the top of the food chain. And then, again, companions not only leave, but you switch character. And the difficulty just goes up the wall again, and not only that, but there is no upgrade shop.
Does anyone remember this part of the game? It's at the white tree and I'm a bloody cat (which ties in with the stupid reasons for companions to leave, because the story is also stupid). An NPC said that monsters are vulnerable to fire and another said they will silence you, but still they ignore black magic (fire, but the bow worked, for some reason) and once you get deep enough in the tree, they both blind and sleep you, just as often as they silence you.
I'm tearing my hair out, because I've thrown out a couple of 30 min dungeon runs now where I get to the third level and then it's just *blind* *sleep* and dead. Start over.
Is this the most brutal FF game since the first three, I wonder?
Coming up next: Our 10 part report on the wetness of water.
Thats the thing. They make fantastic looking games on consoles. Not PCs. It takes entire custome engines to do that. Unreal games look like ass on consoles.
Maybe some day they'll learn that photo realistic graphics dont matter and its art direction and style that matters more (What I'd give for another game as sexy as Legend of Mana.)
These rants of yours get really tiring because they're the same thing repeated over and over. It's always "Square Enix would be saved if they fired Toriyama", even though he's one of 3 directors on the series (4 if we're including Nomura), is the only guy in the company releasing HD games on a decent time frame, is apparently liked by Square Enix management because he's easy to work with and really isn't responsible for all that much. If you want someone higher up to blame, you should probably take a look at Wada.
Continuing to work on UE3 would've been stupid. First off, chocobolicious is right, FFXIII wouldn't have looked as good if it were running on UE3. Second, they started off making PS3 exclusive games and UE3 has never been that good on it (in fact it was horrendous for the PS3's first couple of years, which is why the Last Remnant PS3 port was cancelled). Third, it's even more difficult for Japanese companies to use it because the documentation and support has never really been there (which is why there are barely any Japanese games that use it). And last, UE3 wouldn't have changed much. Their games don't take forever because they're busy building the engine, they take forever because their games just HAVE to be the prettiest, so they spend an insane amount of time and money creating all their art assets. THAT is the problem with the company. If they were happy to just throw out fugly, broken games like Bethesda, I'm sure we would've had Versus on our shelves years ago.
Don't get me wrong, trying to develop three games simultaneously while their engine wasn't even in a working state was an incredibly dumb idea. But at this point, neither Versus or XIV (2.0) will be using Crystal Tools anyway. And if things go according to plan, the Luminous engine will be ready right when the next gen hits and they'll have that issue sorted.
Oh and fuck the idea of western devs handling the series. They'd probably turn it into an Uncharted clone or something, just like every other fucking western franchise.
Final Fantasy 1313
(c wut i did thur)
:^: Though I feel like it needs a little more legitimacy, so it'll have to be:
Tom Clancy's Final Fantasy 1313
Now with 300% more on-disc DLC.
Seriously.
Me, I am super excited for 13-3 if that is what this is because I love both 13's. I am pleased as god damn punch right now.
LoL: failboattootoot
And Grin was working on a Final Fantasy game. Possibly some sort of spinoff of 12.
So Square has tried outsourcing to Western devs like Capcom does, but I don't think they like the results.
Bloody hell, what a beautiful game in absolutely every way. I loved exploring the world and sometimes I'd just stand there listening to the music.
Only thing I didn't quite get was why Caius had/could transform into Bahamut. Wasn't that Fang's eidolon? How'd he get it?
It was Chaos Bahamut, which is a different guy. (I guess?)
URrrghhhh ok I'm going to bite and completely disagree with you.
Noel is confident and has a goal. He's well written too. I'm VERY glad that the developers did not do a "But I want to love Serah too!" plot with him. Serah and Noel both are some of the more self-aware characters I've seen. They don't futz around. They actually figure things out and take action to fix it. Noel is a combination of the best of Tidus and Auron (oh god did I just type that?)
Caius, on the other hand...best character? I disagree completely. He has absolutely NO personality in the game. He's your typical "If I can't save xxx, I will destroy the world/universe/time/all things" character. He, he's a very good big bad, but don't try to tell me he has any character. In fact the only real character development he gets is through reading the notes about him on the fragment skills.
tl;dr: Noel is not a JRPG stereotype. Caius is the epitome of a JRPG stereotype.
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I'm glad they hung a lampshade on that.
the best part of caius' character is early interaction with him when you see he's basically a good guy and how you watch him change throughout time is a big part of why he makes a good villain I think.
This includes Russian Ultranationalist Mercenary missions, right?
I can't remember any early interaction with him where he's a good guy, though. I remember the intro movie. Caius is set to destroy. The next moment after that that I remember is the first time he fights you. He gives no explanation besides "You're destroying the timeline." Serah and Noel basically say "wait, what? we're trying to fix it! Tell us what's going on!" Caius attacks without explaining a damn thing. This happens at least a couple more times.
Later in the game you finally see some flashback/scenes where it shows that Caius originally had noble goals, but by that time, it's pounded into your head that he's your typical irrational villain.
I don't remember what happened/was said but i had a definite noble ideas vibe from him the first time noel/serah fight him. he seemed like a time cop to me at the time.
Granted, a lot of my love for him was probably because his character was basically Nier.
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I said "terrible people". Plural.
Toriyama may be a terrible writer, but I certainly can't blame him for the continued delays and cut-backs that have been plaguing the series this gen. I doubt he was the one who said "HD towns were too hard" or "these linear corridors will remind people of Call of Duty".
I do think Wada deserves much of the blame, as he was apparently one of the top people who decide "ship out FFXIV as is". But according to AP, the company would be financially fucked by now if it wasn't for him, so this is argumentative.
But AP also attested that there are internal conflicts within the company between stubborn people who won't adapt to the new age of game development and those that want to evolve. The former is the bloat that needs to be removed, the way I'm hearing.
Subjective here, but Lost Odyssey looks pretty darn fantastic, and probably took less than half of the resources it took to make FFXIII, not to mention half the time.[/quote]
Versus was last reported to still be using Crystal Tools, mixed with an alpha/beta version of Luminous to handle the lighting. FFXIV is dumping CT completely as Yoshi-P has flat-out called the engine a piece of shit.
Yeah.....again, outsourcing an FF game to a Western dev is not the same as having it be "Western influenced". It's merely having the teams who are clearly more talented than they currently are to handle all the high-res graphic effects, textures and other resources that take them nearly an entire console generation to nail down.
Ubisoft outsources the AC games to like 5 studios every year. The process works.
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But the idea they just hand a game to Capcom or some different developer is not true.
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Nintendo has been doing a lot of outsourcing lately, as well. It's pretty much the best possible method to getting these ludicrously expensive HD games out.
Don't be surprised if Nintendo can't handle Wii U Zelda on their own.
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Oh my god, the updates.
Here's the PA thread: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/119511/there-are-many-fantasies-but-this-like-the-last-was-final-ffxi/p30#Comment_23769450
I think the suggestion of Nintendo's outsourcing, lately, will conjure in peoples minds Metroid Other M, the apparently not yet begun next Smash Brothers; or internal ones like Kid Icarus (which I can't really comment on but I know it had some pretty mixed reactions)
Out/in-sourcing isn't a sure-fire solution and you're just as likely to get a shit product as you are doing it internally (wasn't there a recent Resident Evil that was contracted out and turned into complete garbage?). It's pretty naive to assume that it would somehow produce better games internally if they could just have someone else do the "extra" stuff. And "extra" stuff is pretty subjective. You may have hated XIII/XIII-2, but many people did not, they both sold well and particularly XIII-2 got great critical reception. Nothing about that is going to make SE inclined to outsource these things.
Should they have contracted some other developer to pick up slack and get things in order on the (rumored) cancelled Versus? Maybe. But SE, maybe more than any other company than Nintendo is all about self-honor and control. Both companies are more likely to pick up developers in order to have them do work, as opposed to outright contracting them to do so. This creates all sorts of issues.
Sure, sometimes you get a Retro and the excellent Metroid Prime games. But that's not always the case and Nintendo took a pretty big damn risk with that one.
I just don't think there's some magic wand that can be waved on what you perceive as a problem with SE right now. And I don't think your view, by any means, is consensus. Eidos was probably the best purchase SE has made in ever, and has been putting out good stuff. And you may not like recent SE entries, but that doesn't mean others don't and that they're not selling well. Yeah, I can go to Kotaku and be bombarded with their shitty bloggers/non-journalists bitching about the same things you are; but they're in no more position than you to have some say in the matter. And if anything at this point, the sort of absurdly strong reactions that are popping out more and more these days out of places like that (and around here even) come across as less reasoned and more just childish petulance of not getting exactly what you want.
Of course the redonkulous rose colored glasses people seem to have about old Square/SE games doesn't help anything. Shit, there's an article right now on Kotaku bitching about FFIV: The After Years calling it rehashed tripe as if FFIV was some profound game. Sure, it was above and beyond pretty much any other JRPG at the time, but its story is, by literary standards, complete tripe and horribly shallow. I say that with IV being my second favorite FF behind X; but that's less because of how amazing it is and more to do with it blowing my mind as a child. I mean, really; name another FF than VI that doesn't get as much hate and bitching as any other FF. Maybe 1? Maybe IV? The rest? They hae just as much vitriol pointed to them as XIII does.
SE can't win here. And attempting to go back to some so-called golden age, in development and style, isn't going to do them any favors either. When people act like they should, it just makes me think of people who whine about politics, and the state of the USA and wishing for "better days", completely unaware that those better days consisted of things like never ending wars, segregation, cold war fear propaganda, etc. Yes, that's probably an unnecessary comparison to make, but lets be real here. The solution to SE's problems aren't to go back in time.
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And I say this as someone who could be grossly overcharged for a FFVII remake and wouldn't mind.
EDIT: Resident Evil: ORC was outsourced to Canadian studio Slant Six Games, which has now become the explanation as to why it sucked out loud. I don't know if it's accurate (it's not the first stinker Capcom put out), but it's there.
In Assassin's Creed's case, it seems to be the only option, not the desirable one, when they feel the need to churn out a new game once a year, alongside DLC.
So take what you will of that, but claiming that it's wanting some 'golden age' that doesn't exist, when games exist to the exact contrary of that statement (And do well.) seems more to be wishing progress where it isn't needed. FFIV after years did so good it not only got re-released, they redid the original game to match it and add in an interlude. Because the games make so much money even with modest sales.
As for FFIV's story being shallow tripe: So is, by literary standards, Tolkien. He even wrote it specifically that way. It's still one of the best loved stories in the world at this point. Go figure, eh?
The simplest stories are the most memorable. I think that's where a lot of Square's problems stem from. They try too hard. I could give you a point to point for every scene in FF1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6. Once you get to 7 and up though, they start trying to be some super complex orchestration and I can remember the primary points, but a lot of the details are lost or forgotten or just not important. (6 probably suffers from this too, for a lot of people, but all my love, etc, etc.)
If FF Dimensions doesn't make 20x the money it takes to produce, I'd eat a hat.
I saw a German chef make a delicious chocolate hat on a TV cookery show once, so that isn't saying much.