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Relationships and porn
Romero Zombie
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So a bit of history, married for almost six years, together nine and two kids. Love my wife more than anything and we have what I consider to be a pretty active and satisfying sex life all things considering. Recently, my wife went to pick up my phone to check something online and I had left it on my most recent browsing window, online porn.
Needless to say, my wife got really upset. Not yelling at me angry, just cried for a while. I tried telling her numerous times it wasn't anything else to me except to get off because I was home alone and bored. She has this notion in her head though that because I'm watching porn that I'm always talking to other girls online and cheating on her. I don't think I'm anywhere near the realm of addiction, because I only watch..maybe once or twice or week at most and I've never let it interfere with my relationship or life or anything. Like I mentioned, I was home alone, bored and wanted to get off.
So she went from crying to not even talking to me and I'm at a loss here as to what to do. She is insecure about herself and thinks I watch that because it is what I want at home which just isn't true. Like I mentioned above, I love my wife and when I'm with her, I am with her, I just can't find a way to make her understand. I obviously can't go back and undo what happened and am just looking for some advice on how to handle this
Needless to say, my wife got really upset. Not yelling at me angry, just cried for a while. I tried telling her numerous times it wasn't anything else to me except to get off because I was home alone and bored. She has this notion in her head though that because I'm watching porn that I'm always talking to other girls online and cheating on her. I don't think I'm anywhere near the realm of addiction, because I only watch..maybe once or twice or week at most and I've never let it interfere with my relationship or life or anything. Like I mentioned, I was home alone, bored and wanted to get off.
So she went from crying to not even talking to me and I'm at a loss here as to what to do. She is insecure about herself and thinks I watch that because it is what I want at home which just isn't true. Like I mentioned above, I love my wife and when I'm with her, I am with her, I just can't find a way to make her understand. I obviously can't go back and undo what happened and am just looking for some advice on how to handle this
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Some women just had a really hard time understanding that their dudes and their porn and their jerking off have nothing to do with how attractive they may or may not find them, and instead jump directly to it being an insult and a distraction because she isn't satisfying you. However, if she's not willing to hear that it's just an occasional thing at it appears from your OP, a counselor is going to help you work through that.
...It wasn't like...anything super crazy was it? Cause if it was like,oh btw honey I like Thai lady boys, then I can see there being some issues.
However this is the internet so I'll do it anyways.
You can tackle this from a few ways, one is a simple biological example using a couple cleaver straw men arguments to sound convincing. Something along the lines of men get erections 4-6 times in a day and your not around, so to alleviate pressure I treat myself to a little me time, and reduce tenderness and pain that can be caused by an erection. Men are also visual creatures and having a visual stimulus makes the masturbation faster and more efficient. Your wife simply doesn't have the time to deal with the increased blood flow to your penis at the frequency that it occurs.
Another way to tackle it is to lie to her, say for her you'll swear it off and avoid downloading anything and clearing your browser history after viewing.
You could try to reassure her, but this may be one of those instances where nothing you can do is going to be the right thing to say in that regard.
And who cares if you watch once or twice a week, once or twice a day, you don't need to convince us your an addict, hell I watch porn every day because I drop a batch every day. It expedites the process. I have too much shit to do to be masturbating all day I need something to look at drop my batch and get on with my day.
And there is the remote possibility that she is cheating on you and accusing you because of psychological projection. This is unlikely but still possible.
Eventually, you need her to be able to articulate what precisely is upsetting her and why. There could be a fairly rational reason this makes her feel insecure -- for many women, masturbation relies on physical and mental/emotional stimulation instead of visual stimulation, so she may be thinking that you selected pornography as a masturbatory aide when you could just as easily have thought about her. If that's where this sudden insecurity is coming from, I think that's something you'll be able to work through with some communication. If there's no direct bridge between "my husband watches porn," and "omg he must be cheating on me," though, she may have a few trust issues that you two need to work through.
Give her a little bit and then calmly ask her to explain precisely what's making her feel this way. Make sure you validate her right to feel upset (even if it's something you want to work through) while reiterating that you didn't do this to hurt her or even that you thought it might conceivably upset her this much.
There's really nothing you can do except explain that looking at porn is just something men do to help with masturbation and nothing more. If it's really an issue, I suggest finding some reading material on the subject of men's sexuality.
Have been through this before, so I totally get it. Usagi gets it too. What Usagi lists above are some of the things going on in her head. Since this relates to your sex-life and is something she didn't know you did and then accidentally found-out about, this probably shook her trust in you; she might think that you intended to keep this a secret from her and she wonders what you have to hide. Her head was probably spinning after.
Communication is key; you should lay it out on the table for her like you've begun to do for us so that she can begin to understand that this has nothing to do with her not being able to attend to your needs properly or satisfy you well (sexually, etc). She will probably need a day or two and consult her friends about it (if this is "normal"), but she probably sincerely wants to understand why you use porn, so be prepared to tell her why. You should be honest and very open with her. Hopefully she will listen to you and come to understand. If she is still troubled after it is wise to seek a counselor.
She may see you as "wanting" those women, potentially in a more than physical sense because they're prettier/hotter/etc than she is.
I've not had much experience counseling, but typically when someone makes a leap between two things like that there's *something* else going on.
Not to say she's going behind your back, but maybe she's had some kind of experience with this before? Perhaps an ex did something similiar and you just stumbled into it?
Lets face it. Some people just are NOT into porn for a host of reasons. Maybe it's religion, upbringing, scared, sexual abuse, insecure, etc etc.
I think many men (and women) enjoy porn, and i personally see nothing wrong with it. Some people make the insane leap that looking at porn is somehow the same as cheating which BLOWS MY MIND. Or some people will call i t "emotional cheating" which i can't even wrap my head around that concept.
I think you need to let her be upset, and then try to have a rational talk with her and/or a professional. The more openly you two can talk about sex, desires, fantasies, likes and dislikes, the closer you can get. Let her realize that the porn and your feelings have NOTHING to do with each other.
The hiding part is what would upset me if I found something like this out about my husband, not the porn specifically. I don't know how well I would articulate that initially and would need some time by myself to sort of my feelings. When you say she went from crying to not talking to you, is this on a time scale of the last two hours? two days? two weeks? The first one, give her more space, the second maybe try to ask her if she is ready to talk, the last tell her that you really want to talk and hear more about how she feels.
The issue is pretty much, on a larger level, surrounding what Kistra pointed out:
It often comes down to communication. I have to assume that you are your wife, Romero, aren't the most open and adventurous sexual couple. When this happened to me (at a far less severe reaction from my then-partner) was a mixture of her anxiety that I wasn't happy with her in the bedroom (the "Why can't I be enough for you?") and, on top of that, that I was, intentionally or otherwise, hiding it from her (the "What else have you been doing?").
In all honesty, I would venture a guess that, perhaps, your sex life has suffered over the last nine years after careers and kids. This happens to everyone.
While I can't specifically comment on the how-to-fix-this-now angle, the larger picture probably includes a more robust sex life with your wife and a more involved process of keeping your own browsing habits a bit more private. Dan Savage likes to point out that the "we're both going to pretend this doesn't happen" is the most common result. Seriously, hide it better and give your wife more attention, sexually. This isn't a one-sided issue, and you need to address and discuss why this bothers your wife so much and why you feel the need to keep porn open on your phone/desktop/holodeck. You have every "right" to watch porn now and then, but you need to take your wife's opinion and feelings into account.
In the end, it comes to communication and honesty. This is another one of those situations where the solution is likely to be more about opening lines of communication and keeping them open than about anything concrete.
And dude, really. Be more careful. Then have awesomely passionate sex with your wife.
To the OP, my heart just goes out to you. As Usagi said, you both need some marriage counseling, and I sincerely hope you find a sex-positive marriage counselor that won't heap more blame and shame on your shoulders.
Man, 7 years of marriage and I just don't know what to say to help ease some of the regret you're feeling. Both I and my wife enjoy porn, and we have a lovely relationship together. I want to say, It's not your fault, you were not in the wrong, your wife has a problem and this needs to be worked out with the guiding hand of a professional.
Now, if she should be miffed about anything, it should be about this:
You have two kids. Five year olds (and even younger) are becoming smart-phone savvy and computer savvy, even if YOU are not! Keep that browser history clean!
I honestly don't consider the two to be mutually exclusive.
Edit: I'm not suggesting that "hiding" is really the best way to avoid conflict, it was a poor choice of wording. There are always things that we do that cause problems but which aren't problems themselves. My partner hates it when I'm on the road and I go out drinking with my coworkers and call her late to say g'night. After the first few times, it was simply better, if I went out, to go to sleep and call her in the morning. This is similar in that if porn isn't a problem for Romero then make it a non-issue through being careful not to subject his wife to it.
Think of it like someone who is allergic to perfume. It doesn't mean that someone would stop wearing fragrance, just that when one is around that specific person you would do your best not to be too heavily scented.
And that isn't a solution, it's a workaround. The solution is hopefully to have honest communication that is productive. It won't be "oh honey, go watch as much porn as you want!" but it may absolutely help to bring understanding and exchange to what sounds like a really one-sided issue. Neither party here is right or wrong insomuch that it is about consideration and understanding. We all change our habits when we're living with other people, and that goes even further for marriages.
This. Most people hide porn and masturbation because they don't want to look at porn and masturbate in front of other people. Most people do not masturbate as a social activity, and like most things involving genitals, most people do not want to blast that kind of information or visuals all over the place.
Masturbation is natural, and while porn has varying levels of acceptance, neither are talked about publicly with any regularity. So, when exposed to it, most people are caught off guard. Whether it's a partner or a best friend, it's, like Drake said, similar to learning something very intimate about someone, and that can be jarring.
For the OP, if your wife has never really been exposed to porn at all, maybe explaining a bit about why you view it and what it is that stimulates you may help. If you have a happy sex life, perhaps emphasize that you don't use porn because you're unhappy in the bedroom, and that you don't masturbate because you're unhappy, but rather that you are sometimes alone and feel horny but don't want to jump on your wife as soon as she gets home. And perhaps also emphasize that just because you masturbate doesn't mean you won't have sex with her, even if it's the same day or same evening.
I was up front and honest with her, even when she asked if this was the first time I've watched it, which it clearly wasn't. It was just difficult for her to understand that just because I masterbate/watch porn doesn't mean I love her any less. I try to be affectionate and physical with her whenever I can. Hopefully time will heal though
The problem is you aren't going to even be able to get to that part of the conversation because she's all hung up on other shit (self-image issues, perhaps traditional or stereotyped mores on sexuality, maybe other trust issues, and apparently total dickhead ex-boyfriends).
I guess there's no chance she would watch porn with you? It's awesome.
As a general rule of thumb, people who approach new areas of contention in relationship with the mentality that it's not OUR problem, it's HER problem don't need relationship advice, they need legal advice. If you get up in arms about your God-given right to choke the chicken while invalidating her emotional response, you're going to both entrench in intractable defensive postures, which may eventually lead to you masturbating a whole lot more frequently than you do already.
This, on the other hand, might be good advice depending on your wife's viewpoints on pornography. Making pornography something you share together might make it easier for her to disassociate it with the idea of you being secretive about it.
Seriously, I just kept re-reading djeets advice as "Fuck that bitch, you need to jack it to porn, her feelings be damned.
In a relationship, problems are not relegated to just one person and going about it that way just leads to madness.
EDIT:
So here's the problem: when you approach a disagreement with the mentality that someone is "not respecting" you and that the way she's reacting is "not fair of her," you are automatically putting her in a position where she has to defend why the way she's reacting is not disrespectful and unfair. That's what I mean when I say that your approach invalidates her feelings -- you're requiring her to justify her emotional response as well as challenging her by suggesting that she has less of a right to that emotional response than the OP has to masturbating. Approaching ANY disagreement like this is a recipe for a non-productive, nasty confrontation.
You're much better off validating your partner's right to her reaction so that she feels comfortable explaining why she feels the way she does. When both sides can articulate their positions openly, common ground can be established, and unfounded fears can be allayed.
Men are looking at porn because it's a visual stimulant to aid in masturbation. We're not thinking about the women on the screen any more than we're thinking about the men alongside them. I know you can't just tell your girlfriend to "get over it," but I think a "don't ask, don't tell" situation is how most couples handle it.
After all, I'm with Savage in that 99% of men masturbate, yet 99% of their women aren't really upset about it.
I'm really not getting that bolded bit. Why would that somehow make it easier for her? Further, how is that even a solution if it does? I'm assuming the OP is heterosexual and has no interest in watching two men having anal sex, so why would the two of them watching it together accomplish anything?
If anything, the OP's girlfriend might be more comfortable watching softcore pornography or perhaps "female friendly," which as I understand it is basically a step up from softcore.
Still, I really, really, really doubt that the OP's girlfriend is going to be receptive to watching porn together at all.
It's the Michael Scott school of thought - make some uncomfortable for one person uncomfortable for everyone.
I dont recall telling the OP to do anything he wouldn't feel comfortable with, and I prefaced with "if she expresses an interest in".
My point was mostly that, dont assume she wants to watch the majority of online porn, and depending on her personality, she might just find softcore weird and cheesy, like I did. But there are other avenues to pursue, if she expresses an interest and doesn't know where to go, I think comics are a fine start. Its actually where alot of teenage girls with the internet get there porn.
Without having a discussion as to why she responds the way she does to this new information, and recasting the activity away from it being perceived as cheating or seeking to cheat behavior I also think it unlikely she's going to want to watch porn. It could be seeing other naked women makes her self-conscious about her own body and that overpowers any sexual stimulation she may get from it. Maybe she views all women she considers more attractive to herself as a threat. Regardless if you want to approach possibly sharing the experience with her you're going to have to approach it with a lot more circumspection than with someone who doesn't have her history.
What I'm concerned with is this:
I just don't see that. One ex boyfriend, maybe. But more than one? Was she picking up guys at Douchebags R Us? What are the chances that even one guy would behave this way toward his girlfriend, let alone two?
I'm just thinking that she is genuinely really upset by this and she can't quite reason out why, so she's giving you this line in an effort to make you sympathize. I mean, it doesn't really matter in the end, but I think it's interesting that she would offer this up if my hunch is correct.
Who the hell compares their girlfriends to porn stars? What the fuck?
A self-confident, emotionally secure woman will totally wreck any guy stupid enough to utter a sentence like, "I wish you were more like Chasey Lain," before walking out the door without looking back. You wouldn't be having this problem with her down the road.
...Not to imply anything insulting about your wife or about yourself, Romero. I'm sure you're the exception that proves the rule about her past relationships, and also it sounds like she's trying to own her feelings about this issue, which is actually better than her trying to squelch them and pretending that they don't matter. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be as automatically predisposed towards the assumption that your wife's acting in bad faith as others have suggested. Nothing about this sounds so implausible that you should challenge it.
There's a couple of ladies here who have had to deal with abusive boyfriends. I dunno, maybe they can help your wife a little with some advice about healing.
This is nothing at all to most of us, and we all make our share of dick jokes from time to time, but if it's not something she likes or does and her exes have been jerks about it then this may just take her a little time.
So I'm not trying to be extremely pro-therapy up ins, but if she's a) had a history of shitty/possibly abusive mates, and b) not really talking to you at all much less willing to talk about this, then having a neutral, non-threatening third party for her to talk to would be a really smart thing.
Not talking about it and hoping it's just gonna blow over aren't really options here.
That is, a complete shut down in communication?
Something is off.
You have to find what works for you and it can be difficult to quit, but you have an active sex life (as you said) and you masturbate "when your bored" so if you can find something else to occupy your time, you can probably go for a few days dry-spell every now and then. Maybe explain to your wife the situation and ask her to help alleviate any pressure that may be building up over a long spell.
Of course...all of this comes after the resolution of your current problem. As others have said she needs to be loved and reassured of her primary spot in your love-life and sex-life. It will likely suck for you and take a lot of time to rebuild that trust, but it'll probably also be worth it.
You weren't flaunting pornography in her face, you weren't comparing her to pornstars, you weren't openly masturbating in front of her. You shouldn't feel shame or guilt over this.
She's projecting her insecurities on to you, and all you can be is reassuring and supportive. But otherwise, carry on as usual.
Also, i'd use porn because it gets the 'itch' scratched faster. Would you ask someone to use a pinky nail to scratch a back itch when what they REALLY want to do is rake all their fingers across? No, that would be pointless.
To be clear, an itch is only different in that the urgency to masturbate is less immediate.