Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I mained mid tristana for freaking ever until this new meta happened. I still want to do it if I can ever convince my buddies to run soraka brand in bottom lane
theres probably some teamcomp involving ryze top that could have tristana mid, as well
j4 leona bottom, tristana mid, ryze top, and maybe nunu jungle? What other tankAP champs can jungle... chogath maybe? but I'm convinced he sucks.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Question: What is the best way to help someone get over their fear of certain champions?
I tried explaining the way the matchup should work (as I understand it), and set up a custom to play The Champion They Hated versus their chosen champ, to show them how it worked out.
I think it benefited them some, as I was telling them about openings, when to threaten, when to back off, but I still sorta took them apart piecemeal.
The matchup was Lux vs Annie (him), and I was suggesting that he stay out of range and last hit with Q until she throws out a binding at range, dodge it, then move in and just combo her if she stuck around, then charge up a stun and wade around in the minions, threatening her with a Q->combo that would instagib her, thus zoning.
Reverse the matchup. Have him play as Lux and you play as his AP mid of choice (Annie). If he's an IRL friend and doesn't own Lux which (I assume he doesn't), you can swap accounts if you trust him enough. Then proceed to dismantle him with Annie in a variety of different ways. After a game or two (well, just the laning phases), swap back and see if he can put it into practice. This is how I learned to fight a lot of my matchups, minus the partner part. By playing as a character, you get to understand their weaknesses and what that character's afraid of. The only thing this doesn't work for is jungle, since it varies so much more based on route.
Unfortunately, I dismantled him as Lux pretty handily (apart from one exchange that he should have won, but I managed to due mostly to luck and flashing away on 8HP), and he doesn't own Lux. Maybe if she's free, we can do that.
I agree with Zerg. I've found that the best way to stop hating a champ is to play as them and find their weaknesses. Once you get more familiar with their numbers/ranges/playstyle you kind of know how they'll respond to different things, you'll know when they're setting up to go at you and things like that. LeBlanc was a good example of a character I didn't understand at all, and then I played her a bit and now I know how to deal with her BS early. Singed and Tristana are still ridiculous to me no matter how much I know about them.
I've had it go the other way too - go into a matchup against a character I play a lot, only to have the person playing them be FAR BETTER and do things I had never dreamed of with them. This doesn't happen as much now, but when I was levelling up to 30 it was pretty common.
Question: What is the best way to help someone get over their fear of certain champions?
I tried explaining the way the matchup should work (as I understand it), and set up a custom to play The Champion They Hated versus their chosen champ, to show them how it worked out.
I think it benefited them some, as I was telling them about openings, when to threaten, when to back off, but I still sorta took them apart piecemeal.
The matchup was Lux vs Annie (him), and I was suggesting that he stay out of range and last hit with Q until she throws out a binding at range, dodge it, then move in and just combo her if she stuck around, then charge up a stun and wade around in the minions, threatening her with a Q->combo that would instagib her, thus zoning.
Reverse the matchup. Have him play as Lux and you play as his AP mid of choice (Annie). If he's an IRL friend and doesn't own Lux which (I assume he doesn't), you can swap accounts if you trust him enough. Then proceed to dismantle him with Annie in a variety of different ways. After a game or two (well, just the laning phases), swap back and see if he can put it into practice. This is how I learned to fight a lot of my matchups, minus the partner part. By playing as a character, you get to understand their weaknesses and what that character's afraid of. The only thing this doesn't work for is jungle, since it varies so much more based on route.
Unfortunately, I dismantled him as Lux pretty handily (apart from one exchange that he should have won, but I managed to due mostly to luck and flashing away on 8HP), and he doesn't own Lux. Maybe if she's free, we can do that.
I agree with Zerg. I've found that the best way to stop hating a champ is to play as them and find their weaknesses. Once you get more familiar with their numbers/ranges/playstyle you kind of know how they'll respond to different things, you'll know when they're setting up to go at you and things like that. LeBlanc was a good example of a character I didn't understand at all, and then I played her a bit and now I know how to deal with her BS early. Singed and Tristana are still ridiculous to me no matter how much I know about them.
I've had it go the other way too - go into a matchup against a character I play a lot, only to have the person playing them be FAR BETTER and do things I had never dreamed of with them. This doesn't happen as much now, but when I was levelling up to 30 it was pretty common.
Yeah I could see that helping a lot. Or doing it with a character you only play a little, or just started playing. Watching how other people do things helps a lot. Also watching replays of your games. Not just the losses. Usually people lose a game and say "Hmmm, what did I do wrong?" I find it extremely helpful to watch a game where our team was amazing and say "Hmmm, what did I do right?"
It's better practice to learn from positives than learn from negatives.
How should I be building items on support? I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Rush Shurelya's ASAP", but I normally go Philosopher's Stone -> Heart of Gold -> CD Boots -> Aegis, Herald or WOTA depending on lane partner and their ineptitude -> Locket -> Shurelya's -> whatever else.
Am I massively hindering myself by prioritising aura items over Shurelya's?
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
shurelya's makes you go really fast
like as fast as go really fast boots and some doubleswords
shurelya's is good for sweet dunks
(Build whatever's appropriate to the game you're in. Not able to pursue the remnants of their team after a good teamfight? Shurelya's. Taking a little too much damage in teamfights that you win, so you end up having to base rather than push? Locket/Aegis/Randuin's. Totally owning and more AP than AD? WotA (but that takes a while). Totally owning with more AD than AP? Herald.)
I usually see Treads recommended for Shen, but it seems like Sorcerer's boots would be more useful for him in general. Particularly if you're going AS/Hp shen. There's not a lot of great options for magic penetration otherwise (most of them have AP). The only reason I would consider investing in AP would be to help the feint shield stay up, but the ratios are poor. Thoughts?
I mained mid tristana for freaking ever until this new meta happened. I still want to do it if I can ever convince my buddies to run soraka brand in bottom lane
theres probably some teamcomp involving ryze top that could have tristana mid, as well
j4 leona bottom, tristana mid, ryze top, and maybe nunu jungle? What other tankAP champs can jungle... chogath maybe? but I'm convinced he sucks.
There's no efficient team comp that would leave Trist mid anymore, as newer AP carries are deadlier, and the blue-for-mid meta means you can't just push to tower to try to run them dry. If you really wanted an AD carry counterpick, you'd use Cait for her early range. Trist top still works though, since top doesn't have big bursters and she's very safe with Rocket Jump. What I think would work well is Ryze/Soraka bot, Trist top, usual mid/jungle.
I usually see Treads recommended for Shen, but it seems like Sorcerer's boots would be more useful for him in general. Particularly if you're going AS/Hp shen. There's not a lot of great options for magic penetration otherwise (most of them have AP). The only reason I would consider investing in AP would be to help the feint shield stay up, but the ratios are poor. Thoughts?
Shen open with a Ruby Crystal then Heart of Gold.
Then I go with the Merc Treads
Then go for a Phage
then Rylais.
Then get a Chain mail and Negatron
Then turn the Phage into Frozen Mallet.
Turn HoG & Chain Mail into Randuins
Turn Negatron into Force of Nature
I also like to add a Atmas in there.
Rylais is important for the slow on your Q the AP is handy for Q harass as well as the slight buff to W and the great ratio on Ult. Frozen Mallet is to keep them slowed and in range. Atmas makes you a threat outside your cooldowns.
Feint is mostly poop from a butt, except when you are in a 1v1. Otherwise you should be saving the energy for more shadow dashes / Q.
I usually see Treads recommended for Shen, but it seems like Sorcerer's boots would be more useful for him in general. Particularly if you're going AS/Hp shen. There's not a lot of great options for magic penetration otherwise (most of them have AP). The only reason I would consider investing in AP would be to help the feint shield stay up, but the ratios are poor. Thoughts?
People should be kiting you as shen which is why I think people say go for defensive boots. If for whatever reason they are not than sorc shoes should be a decent damage boost. I personally prefer playing invincible shen though.
I usually see Treads recommended for Shen, but it seems like Sorcerer's boots would be more useful for him in general. Particularly if you're going AS/Hp shen. There's not a lot of great options for magic penetration otherwise (most of them have AP). The only reason I would consider investing in AP would be to help the feint shield stay up, but the ratios are poor. Thoughts?
Shen open with a Ruby Crystal then Heart of Gold.
Then I go with the Merc Treads
Then go for a Phage
then Rylais.
Then get a Chain mail and Negatron
Then turn the Phage into Frozen Mallet.
Turn HoG & Chain Mail into Randuins
Turn Negatron into Force of Nature
I also like to add a Atmas in there.
Rylais is important for the slow on your Q and if you land a Dash. Frozen Mallet is to keep them slowed. Atmas makes you a threat outside your cooldowns.
This is a build, and I appreciate you sharing it. However, it doesn't really address my question, which is AS/HP Shen.
I typically start with the Ruby Crystal -> Heart of Gold as well.
From there:
Boots+1
Ionic spark
Phage
Treads
Zeke's Herald
Warmog's Armor
Randuin's Omen
Frozen Mallet
There's plenty of room to tweak depending on my matchup. I'll rotate in the Wit's End and possibly an Abyssal Scepter or Spirit visage if I'm seeing heavy magic damage. My default build however only gets magic resist from the scaling blues, masteries, and Treads. This leaves me in a bit of a conundrum with where to go for magic penetration.
With the attack speed items, the frozen mallet is more than enough to keep someone from escaping without the Rylai's, and I like the stat distribution better.
Gotta love cruising at a 2.4 attack speed all the time. Been debating swapping one of the items for a Ionic Spark for sillyness, but couldn't decide on one. Probably the Wit's End if the enemy team isn't magic-heavy.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
does anyone have an idea for a strong solo top champ that isn't kennen to try and learn? I'm trying to branch out and be less of a 2-role pony in ranked, but historically playing bruisers has always intimidated me as compared to ad or ap ranged. who's a good ease-in pick?
Here's a list, sorted by IP costs. Can't finish at the moment, but I will when I get back.
Solo Top Picks
450:
Kayle (R>Q=E>W, wants a point in E at level 1. Kayle is essentially a tanky fighter with good support, pick a target and deal lots of AoE deeps while ulting your carry and helping people move with W. Doran's Ring, Malady, Boots of Lucidity (Merc Treads if needed), Phage (3force or Mallet), Atma's, Wit's End (Black Cleaver if fed), Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil for items)
1350:
Cho'Gath (Has good and bad matchups, not beginner friendly due to skillshots and can't afford to fall behind)
Mundo (Few bad matchups, he wants to level Q and E while stacking attack speed, defenses, and crit. Only needs health early, get a HoG ASAP)
Garen (A few great matchups, lots of meh matchups where there's honestly nothing to be done. His scaling is low, so get Atma's and stack health, maybe take a PD if you're fed; you want to be the tanky initiator late game.)
Jax (Loses to a lot of popular top lane champs, but if you get a tank or someone with low harass, you'll be a monster late game. Build Triforce, Atma's, and Guinsoo's for items)
Malphite (Tanky initiator who can fuck up a lot of popular picks. Spam Q when you hit level 3, drop an E on them when they get close, don't level W at all until late game. If you're fed, go Triforce, Atma's, and a Phantom Dancer. If not, go for tanky aura items and CDR)
Morgana (Don't expect to play her in draft at all. Go for an early RoAs, Lucid Boots if you aren't destroying your lane, Sorc boots if you are.)
Nasus (In an easy lane, go R>Q>W>E and pick up a Sheen after boots 2. In a hard lane, go R>E>Q>W and don't bother with sheen after you have a Frozen Heart and some MR. Farm your lane and try to have +102 on your Q before 15 minutes (I think that was the metric, that might be wrong), then destroy people in teamfights.)
Singed (Get Merc Treads and an early crystal, don't bother upgrading it to a RoA until you have better armor/mr)
Tryndamere (I've heard good things, but never got him to work.)
Warwick (Boots+pots or armor+pots start, get Sorc boots and a Soul's Visage ASAP after Philo. After that, build full tank or get a WE if you're fed.)
3150:
Akali (Never played her, but she seems to do pretty well)
Gangplank (The Omnichampion, Gangplank, the Tanky Initiator Support Carry Assassin. Good matchup? R>Q>E>W, Philo, Lucid, Sheen, iEdge. Bad matchup (Nidalee and Rumble)? R>W>E>Q with a rank in Q at level 1, Philo, Mercs, defensive items of choice, mana potions. Neither of you can push the other out of lane? R>E>Q>W, Mercs or Tabi, spam GP/10. Alternative builds go for Wriggles, Boots, Phage, Atma, or go for Warmog and stacked BTs)
Gragas (Never played him, but he has good range, escapes, and harass)
Mordekaiser (Never played him, but he's pretty tanky against low harass champs)
Nidalee (You can go AD bruiser or AP caster with her, but I prefer the AP build. Bruiser Nid goes Wriggles, Mercs, Warmogs, Atma and is literally unkillable until the 30 minute mark. AP Nid goes for Lucid boots, early Revolver, Rylai's, Deathcap, and just fucks people up with spears and pushes lanes for days.)
Olaf (Counterpick for 0 sustain champs)
Pantheon (Counterpick for high harass champs)
Shen (Counters low sustain champs and any champ that relies on harass to win the lane. The only champs that beat him are roamers (Shen can't push) and high sustain lanes (less 'counter' and more 'can't lose').)
Udyr (Counterpick for champs that rely on harass or melee ranges; he builds mercs, HoG, phage, WE, Atma, Wriggles, and 3force or mallet, go for Q>W, one point in E at 4, don't rank R until 15.)
Urgot (Counterpick for people sending carries top. Build him like your normal bruiser but start with a Tear, and go for an early sheen if you're fed.)
4800:
Rumble (Ultra high harass, go for an early revolver and take tanky AP items.)
Trundle (Counterpick melee AD champs, Wriggles, Mercs, 3Force, standard tanky deeps.)
6300:
Kennen (High mobility tanky AP assassin mage carry. Get an early revolver and farm and harass to your little yordle heart's content)
Irelia (A safe tanky deeps hypercarry. Build wriggles and farm your lane for days until you get an advantage over your enemy, and then destroy them utterly. Build gp/10 and lots of tank items.)
Lee Sin (Never played him top, I believe he's fallen out of favor due to a lot of popular picks countering him pretty hard. Very high skill cap and a very low skill floor.)
Nautilus (Never played him, but I assume he plays similarly to Malphite at top.)
Renekton (Early game harassing monster, destroys the unwary and needs to do so in order to remain relevant. Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, Atma, tankydeeps standard.)
Riven (Early game fighter with late game hypercarry potential. She has zero sustain and needs a wriggles to stay in lane, but she has lots of good matchups and can destroy tops once she has it. Wriggles, Lucidity, Ghostblade, BT, GA, and whatever you think is good here.)
Shyvana (Very good top lane. R>W>E>Q with Q taken at level 2, try to get Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, and Wit's End by 25 minutes. Just farm and try to land E on the enemy, once you do, go in with W and Q them for a lot of damage and just chase them to tower.)
Talon (Assassin who can snowball veeeeery well. Never played him, but he's a counterpick to AP, specifically AP with a bad early game.)
Vladimir (Tanky AP mage who gets very scary if you don't stymie him early. Once you get your Revolver and hit level 9, you're pretty much unstoppable so long as it didn't get delayed very long.)
Volibear (Counterpick to low harass champions, but can beat anyone in lane if you can take advantage of bad positioning. He's a full on support tank.)
Wukong (Fuck monkeys, go back to the rainforest so I can destroy your habitat for paper and use your hands for an ashtrays.)
Yorick (The premier top laner. High sustain and high harass, get a tear and/or a chalice and just harass harass harass until they die/leave lane. Late game, you deal no damage and aren't really much of a threat, but if you ult your carry you're going to destroy people in team fights.)
To expand on Carnarvons list, these are my favourite solo tops.
Cho - Extremely safe pick, doesn't have many bad matchups (worst I have ever had was Fizz). He has crazy sustain, and once you are able to properly land rupture, he is awesome. Definitely recommend, but give Cho quite a few games to get a feel for him. Great against Yorick, just gives no shits about ghouls.
Gangplank - Easy mode top, even safer pick than ChoGath. He has more bad matchups, but is rewarded for farming with his Q, so if you can't kill the enemy laner, just farm. Can't really lose, especially with a global ult that allows you to rack up assist gold. A couple of his hard counters are Pantheon and Udyr. He is great against Jax.
Olaf - Very situational pick, has lots of bad matchups, but also some very very good ones. Counters most of the non-sustain bruisers. I have had great success against Nasus, Garen, Tryndamere, Pantheon, Udyr, Riven and Singed(until like level 8 or 9). Anyone with range will really mess you up though.
So, this is one of my best Shyvana games ever. I really want to share it since I'm so proud. It's not just that I did well. Anyone can get lucky then snowball. It's that I made aggressive plays that were uncounterable, based on my knowledge of the playing field.
So, the commentary.
Early on I notice they've got very few units able to punish ganks. By that I mean soraka can silence and hurt me, but if I fail gank her she can't punish me hard and set back my jungle the way a Ryze or Brand could. Due to this, I grab a cloth+5 and prepare to gank early and often.
At the 3ish minute mark I notice soraka has been pushing up her lane, so I return from red to gank mid. I had been intending to get rumble because I know he's a nasty top, but Soraka was presenting such a juicy target I go after her. Gank fails by the tiniest sliver of health, and the enemies (rightly) form up from bottom to protect soraka's retreat. We're forced between abandoning the kill and fighting a 4v4, and we let it go.
~5ish minute mark, I attempt a gank on Rumble and manage to burn flash for almost no resources expended. This comes in handy when, at ~6:15 enemy Udyr comes in to gank cho. Seeing that Udyr is top, I'm free to go nomnomnom in his jungle. It's completely safe since their rumble is forced to B (from the gank I did earlier) and Udyr has to cover top leaving me uncontested. (One minor mistake is that I should have left a single wraith, but my burnout kills it).
Fast forward there's a time where Oriana roflpwns their mid while I'm grabbing blue for him (he ends up getting a fresh one, so I grab it for myself). And a gank on Rumble after Cho called out where he had warded in vent.
At 10:40ish I drop a pink ward at dragon to kill their pink. Then after a little skirmish in mid notice that udyr is too low to stop me, so I counterjungle him again. Spotting Rumble going after Ori, I halt my counterjungle (would have liked to take Udyr's golems too) and go to protect her netting a kill. I ping for dragon, then realize we're too low to take it so go back to rice-mode farming.
At golems I spot Udyr coming up a warded path to gank Cho, and go down to counter-gank. We catch them both, but I start to back out as I see soraka coming in. Thankfully Oriana was on the ball (oh man, missed out on so many ball puns), and I pick up a triple.
At ~13:50 I head back from base towards blue, but then notice Oriana is going B (with blue) and Cho's at top lane still. Since I want my blue clear to coincide with being able to dragon after, I go for a full clear top to meet Ori at blue right before we're ready to drag. I let the team know this on vent. Oriana goes to gank bot 3v2 so we'll be in a good position to drag, but Udyr and Soraka show up, turning it into a 4v3. Oriana escapes out and I divert from my path to save. Instead of showing my presence and scaring them off, I hide in the bushes and pick up a +1, and then the ensuing teamfight turns it into a +2, letting us drag freely.
At 16:40 I spot Udyr coming into my jungle from the baron ward. I know my jungle's clear since I just cleared it and there's nothing for him to steal, so I wait for him. He manages to survive via voodoo magic, but we still pick up +1. After that we catch them in the jungle trying to defend their bot tower and dive them for a tower and a stolen red.
At this point there's not much to say. The only things of note are that we still maintain solid play. We go back for dragon right as it spawns. We don't face check bushes even though incredibly ahead (I ward and E to check them). And we use our current strength to force them to defend the towers instead of farming up for a comeback. Oh, and at the end I use my body presence to force them off the towers. I rush in with the wave, they have to retreat instead of clearing it, and we get a bunch of hits on the tower. Every time we do so, we either grab a bunch of tower hits or another +1.
In sum, they weren't a bad team by any stretch. Their lanes coordinated very well, they came together and help one another when in danger, and they had good warding and objective timers. But at each point they were outplayed. White Shark's Oriana started with 67 MR at level 2 and beat Soraka. Our Cho got an advantage from the two ganks and Rumble never recovered against him. Udyr got set back covering top and getting counter jungled, then was forced top to help hold off Cho and his beastly sustain. And we never threw it away. At every phase we were reinforcing each other, warding, and turning our small advantages into bigger ones.
In one sense it's a boring replay because it's one-sided and we do exactly what we ought to. On the other hand, it's so great because we do exactly what we ought to. There were constant interruptions to what was going on, forcing us to adapt to every situation, and at each point everyone did exactly the right thing. All those textbook things you should do to counter the enemy, and actually we pulled them off.
Gotta love cruising at a 2.4 attack speed all the time. Been debating swapping one of the items for a Ionic Spark for sillyness, but couldn't decide on one. Probably the Wit's End if the enemy team isn't magic-heavy.
Nidalee (You can go AD bruiser or AP caster with her, but I prefer the AP build. Bruiser Nid goes Wriggles, Mercs, Warmogs, Atma and is literally unkillable until the 30 minute mark. AP Nid goes for Lucid boots, early Revolver, Rylai's, Deathcap, and just fucks people up with spears and pushes lanes for days.)
I disagree with that AD nid build. With the atmogs route, you don't deal enough damage and have trouble killing without red buff. Going triforce instead makes your damage really scary in the midgame and you're still very hard to kill.
warmog's first is so hilariously tanky. you don't need to do anything but fat around and Q people and you won't even go below 50% in team fights no matter how hard they focus you.
Kayle (R>Q=E>W, wants a point in E at level 1. Kayle is essentially a tanky fighter with good support, pick a target and deal lots of AoE deeps while ulting your carry and helping people move with W. Doran's Ring, Malady, Boots of Lucidity (Merc Treads if needed), Phage (3force or Mallet), Atma's, Wit's End (Black Cleaver if fed), Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil for items)
You know, if you run Nashor's tooth instead of Malady you only lose 9 damage on your e splash, you get 25% CDR, 45 damage on your q, and some extra on your heal. It builds from even cheaper MP5 and attack speed (and you don't actually have to finish for a while, stinger is 40% AS/10% CDR for 1000 gold, compare to the two daggers needed for Malady which is 30% AS for 840 gold) and you can start with 2 health pots for even stronger sustain in lane over the dorans.
With the 25% CDR from Nashor's earlier you aren't locked into Frozen Heart as an armor tank item, you can go with something cheaper (Thornmail/Aegis) or something better (Randuins). With CDR boots this caps you so you can ignore CDR in masteries (Scaling Blues + CDR boots > Merc treads + CDR blues with the exception of the tenacity) and go straight for damage/tank/utility
It's better practice to learn from positives than learn from negatives.
Bull. Its better to study what you can't normally see because its easy to learn from experiences that clearly connect action to result. The less immediate the feedback the harder it is to learn, and so the more important it is to focus on it. To learn best you should look at wins and losses equally. Compare similar situations in wins and losses and see what happened. In a loss, look at the time leading up to a team fight and ask yourself was the team fight a bad idea in general then, or were you unprepared? If you can't see what is different you can't see which it is.
This is also why its important to have other people look at your play. Because they are not you, they will have an easier time seeing what you do instead of what you think you do. They will see things that don't jive with their way of thinking and bring them to your attention.
When you go back and look at replays you're not doing muscle memory training, you're doing research, ingraining good practices have nothing to do with it.
warmog's first is so hilariously tanky. you don't need to do anything but fat around and Q people and you won't even go below 50% in team fights no matter how hard they focus you.
Yeah, that's the point. Nidalee is a pro farmer once she hits 6, so it's not like it's going to take sooo long to build your mog; you should be able to afford 5800 gold worth of items by the 20 minute mark, easy. Atma should be ~27.
Basically, you piss off your enemy laner and run around being a giant douchebag, stealing camps, diving towers and harassing other lanes because of your A+ maneuverability and A+ inability to take meaningful damage. There's a big difference between +1000hp and +250, and Cougar's Q is going to deal a lot of damage even if you only have a Wriggles for AD.
@Goumindong: Malady builds faster and shreds MR (effecting MR after her passive shred), meaning your on-hit and Qs mean more. I've tried the Fiendish Codex start, it simply doesn't give me what I want, when I want it, and when it's finally done it's not really worth anything to me. CDR is great on Kayle, but the itemization kills her early game and her late game simply isn't good enough to support it. As for FH against Aegis or Rand, Kayle can't afford to sit on GP/10 like Malphite or GP can, making it more expensive on her than it is on other top laners. Aegis is for junglers or support who have lower gold incomes, building it top lane is a bit of a waste unless neither of them plan on buying it.
Nidalee (You can go AD bruiser or AP caster with her, but I prefer the AP build. Bruiser Nid goes Wriggles, Mercs, Warmogs, Atma and is literally unkillable until the 30 minute mark. AP Nid goes for Lucid boots, early Revolver, Rylai's, Deathcap, and just fucks people up with spears and pushes lanes for days.)
I disagree with that AD nid build. With the atmogs route, you don't deal enough damage and have trouble killing without red buff. Going triforce instead makes your damage really scary in the midgame and you're still very hard to kill.
I agree with Thorn, every ad nidalee I've seen who builds atmogs is completely useless in fights; it's the triforce nidalees that scare me to death
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Luckily, I rarely see Yorick, and even more rarely play top lane. The one time I did face him, I was GP and I had to start leveling my W and spam mana pots as he flooded me with ghouls off his tear+chalice. He sent me back like 30 times, but I still ended up with a better CS and I took his tower right after he took mine.
But seriously, I felt like I was playing a "Dodge the Ghouls" minigame rather than LoL.
It's not it takes too long to get/stack up, it's that you don't deal enough damage. Nidalee is going to be obnoxiously hard to kill either way and you can still counterjungle like a boss, but the difference in damage between having a triforce and having atmogs is really significant.
Maybe it's just preference, but personally I need to know that if I jump onto their carry in a teamfight that I'm going to be able to kill them in a reasonable amount of time. Nidalee doesn't bring CC to the table, so being tanky doesn't help if they can ignore you.
So I tried a change in my Shyvana rune/mastery pages to help me jungle a bit easier, maybe a bit faster. Turned out to be a bit of both. I took red earlier, resulted in me not needing my normal potions, and shaved maybe ten seconds off my clear before invade. Ended up getting six on Lee's wolves for a change of pace, then stole his blue as it spawned... like I normally do. It was a bit of a tradeoff in buff duration vs precious seconds and two potions.
So not a huge change, but I think the new build will give me more flexibility in my early jungle.
Boy did I counter jungle the hell out of Lee. Stole his red when it respawned too, took his wraiths constatly, took big golem whenever he cleared the little one so it could respawn. By the time I was eleven, he was dead at my hands again and still level eight. I killed him shortly after respawn. He figured after I had run from his team chasing me out of his jungle I was low enough for him to tower dive me. I was pretty friggen low too, under 15% health. But I dodged his motion fist thingy, tagged him with her fire bolt coming in, hit him with a double bite and kited him a bit with burnout. Then I turned and killed him with the towers help.
Shyvana. She is so fun to screw up enemy jungle with, and so powerful later.
Kayle is my new favorite jungler. She clears the jungle faster than any other champ Ive played and her ganking abilities are amazing. Plus, once you get to team fighting she is still good damage output and she can heal/+movement speed ppl AND save ppl with her invuln shield.
BTW, her shield doesn't stop the death laser at the enemy spawn... seems kinda stupid that it doesn't O_o
Posts
theres probably some teamcomp involving ryze top that could have tristana mid, as well
j4 leona bottom, tristana mid, ryze top, and maybe nunu jungle? What other tankAP champs can jungle... chogath maybe? but I'm convinced he sucks.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I approve of this build. They should do 1.0 total ad though, not just bonus. Kills at all levels.
...What? What? Cho'Gath does not suck, at all. Not even one bit.
Yeah I could see that helping a lot. Or doing it with a character you only play a little, or just started playing. Watching how other people do things helps a lot. Also watching replays of your games. Not just the losses. Usually people lose a game and say "Hmmm, what did I do wrong?" I find it extremely helpful to watch a game where our team was amazing and say "Hmmm, what did I do right?"
It's better practice to learn from positives than learn from negatives.
PSN: ChemENGR
Am I massively hindering myself by prioritising aura items over Shurelya's?
like as fast as go really fast boots and some doubleswords
shurelya's is good for sweet dunks
(Build whatever's appropriate to the game you're in. Not able to pursue the remnants of their team after a good teamfight? Shurelya's. Taking a little too much damage in teamfights that you win, so you end up having to base rather than push? Locket/Aegis/Randuin's. Totally owning and more AP than AD? WotA (but that takes a while). Totally owning with more AD than AP? Herald.)
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
nope, I'll get it if it goes on sale in a few months like I do with all skins I like
I can't stand the thought of buying a skin at full price when I know it's going to go on sale eventually
There's no efficient team comp that would leave Trist mid anymore, as newer AP carries are deadlier, and the blue-for-mid meta means you can't just push to tower to try to run them dry. If you really wanted an AD carry counterpick, you'd use Cait for her early range. Trist top still works though, since top doesn't have big bursters and she's very safe with Rocket Jump. What I think would work well is Ryze/Soraka bot, Trist top, usual mid/jungle.
Then I go with the Merc Treads
Then go for a Phage
then Rylais.
Then get a Chain mail and Negatron
Then turn the Phage into Frozen Mallet.
Turn HoG & Chain Mail into Randuins
Turn Negatron into Force of Nature
I also like to add a Atmas in there.
Rylais is important for the slow on your Q the AP is handy for Q harass as well as the slight buff to W and the great ratio on Ult. Frozen Mallet is to keep them slowed and in range. Atmas makes you a threat outside your cooldowns.
Feint is mostly poop from a butt, except when you are in a 1v1. Otherwise you should be saving the energy for more shadow dashes / Q.
MWO: Adamski
People should be kiting you as shen which is why I think people say go for defensive boots. If for whatever reason they are not than sorc shoes should be a decent damage boost. I personally prefer playing invincible shen though.
This is a build, and I appreciate you sharing it. However, it doesn't really address my question, which is AS/HP Shen.
I typically start with the Ruby Crystal -> Heart of Gold as well.
From there:
Boots+1
Ionic spark
Phage
Treads
Zeke's Herald
Warmog's Armor
Randuin's Omen
Frozen Mallet
There's plenty of room to tweak depending on my matchup. I'll rotate in the Wit's End and possibly an Abyssal Scepter or Spirit visage if I'm seeing heavy magic damage. My default build however only gets magic resist from the scaling blues, masteries, and Treads. This leaves me in a bit of a conundrum with where to go for magic penetration.
With the attack speed items, the frozen mallet is more than enough to keep someone from escaping without the Rylai's, and I like the stat distribution better.
robots > fox-chan waifus
Edited for grammatical clarity.
veigar also devours ahri's soul...
Joe's Stream.
Gotta love cruising at a 2.4 attack speed all the time. Been debating swapping one of the items for a Ionic Spark for sillyness, but couldn't decide on one. Probably the Wit's End if the enemy team isn't magic-heavy.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
to be fair I've only done the matchup once, but I think it really is good for Viktor
As long as you dodge charm you'll win trades with your q vs. her w
your e poke is longer range than her stuff
and your ult silences her so when you're going for the kill she can't dash away immediately
Here's a list, sorted by IP costs. Can't finish at the moment, but I will when I get back.
Solo Top Picks
450:
Kayle (R>Q=E>W, wants a point in E at level 1. Kayle is essentially a tanky fighter with good support, pick a target and deal lots of AoE deeps while ulting your carry and helping people move with W. Doran's Ring, Malady, Boots of Lucidity (Merc Treads if needed), Phage (3force or Mallet), Atma's, Wit's End (Black Cleaver if fed), Frozen Heart, Banshee's Veil for items)
1350:
Cho'Gath (Has good and bad matchups, not beginner friendly due to skillshots and can't afford to fall behind)
Mundo (Few bad matchups, he wants to level Q and E while stacking attack speed, defenses, and crit. Only needs health early, get a HoG ASAP)
Garen (A few great matchups, lots of meh matchups where there's honestly nothing to be done. His scaling is low, so get Atma's and stack health, maybe take a PD if you're fed; you want to be the tanky initiator late game.)
Jax (Loses to a lot of popular top lane champs, but if you get a tank or someone with low harass, you'll be a monster late game. Build Triforce, Atma's, and Guinsoo's for items)
Malphite (Tanky initiator who can fuck up a lot of popular picks. Spam Q when you hit level 3, drop an E on them when they get close, don't level W at all until late game. If you're fed, go Triforce, Atma's, and a Phantom Dancer. If not, go for tanky aura items and CDR)
Morgana (Don't expect to play her in draft at all. Go for an early RoAs, Lucid Boots if you aren't destroying your lane, Sorc boots if you are.)
Nasus (In an easy lane, go R>Q>W>E and pick up a Sheen after boots 2. In a hard lane, go R>E>Q>W and don't bother with sheen after you have a Frozen Heart and some MR. Farm your lane and try to have +102 on your Q before 15 minutes (I think that was the metric, that might be wrong), then destroy people in teamfights.)
Singed (Get Merc Treads and an early crystal, don't bother upgrading it to a RoA until you have better armor/mr)
Tryndamere (I've heard good things, but never got him to work.)
Warwick (Boots+pots or armor+pots start, get Sorc boots and a Soul's Visage ASAP after Philo. After that, build full tank or get a WE if you're fed.)
3150:
Akali (Never played her, but she seems to do pretty well)
Gangplank (The Omnichampion, Gangplank, the Tanky Initiator Support Carry Assassin. Good matchup? R>Q>E>W, Philo, Lucid, Sheen, iEdge. Bad matchup (Nidalee and Rumble)? R>W>E>Q with a rank in Q at level 1, Philo, Mercs, defensive items of choice, mana potions. Neither of you can push the other out of lane? R>E>Q>W, Mercs or Tabi, spam GP/10. Alternative builds go for Wriggles, Boots, Phage, Atma, or go for Warmog and stacked BTs)
Gragas (Never played him, but he has good range, escapes, and harass)
Mordekaiser (Never played him, but he's pretty tanky against low harass champs)
Nidalee (You can go AD bruiser or AP caster with her, but I prefer the AP build. Bruiser Nid goes Wriggles, Mercs, Warmogs, Atma and is literally unkillable until the 30 minute mark. AP Nid goes for Lucid boots, early Revolver, Rylai's, Deathcap, and just fucks people up with spears and pushes lanes for days.)
Olaf (Counterpick for 0 sustain champs)
Pantheon (Counterpick for high harass champs)
Shen (Counters low sustain champs and any champ that relies on harass to win the lane. The only champs that beat him are roamers (Shen can't push) and high sustain lanes (less 'counter' and more 'can't lose').)
Udyr (Counterpick for champs that rely on harass or melee ranges; he builds mercs, HoG, phage, WE, Atma, Wriggles, and 3force or mallet, go for Q>W, one point in E at 4, don't rank R until 15.)
Urgot (Counterpick for people sending carries top. Build him like your normal bruiser but start with a Tear, and go for an early sheen if you're fed.)
4800:
Rumble (Ultra high harass, go for an early revolver and take tanky AP items.)
Trundle (Counterpick melee AD champs, Wriggles, Mercs, 3Force, standard tanky deeps.)
6300:
Kennen (High mobility tanky AP assassin mage carry. Get an early revolver and farm and harass to your little yordle heart's content)
Irelia (A safe tanky deeps hypercarry. Build wriggles and farm your lane for days until you get an advantage over your enemy, and then destroy them utterly. Build gp/10 and lots of tank items.)
Lee Sin (Never played him top, I believe he's fallen out of favor due to a lot of popular picks countering him pretty hard. Very high skill cap and a very low skill floor.)
Nautilus (Never played him, but I assume he plays similarly to Malphite at top.)
Renekton (Early game harassing monster, destroys the unwary and needs to do so in order to remain relevant. Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, Atma, tankydeeps standard.)
Riven (Early game fighter with late game hypercarry potential. She has zero sustain and needs a wriggles to stay in lane, but she has lots of good matchups and can destroy tops once she has it. Wriggles, Lucidity, Ghostblade, BT, GA, and whatever you think is good here.)
Shyvana (Very good top lane. R>W>E>Q with Q taken at level 2, try to get Wriggles, Mercs, Phage, and Wit's End by 25 minutes. Just farm and try to land E on the enemy, once you do, go in with W and Q them for a lot of damage and just chase them to tower.)
Talon (Assassin who can snowball veeeeery well. Never played him, but he's a counterpick to AP, specifically AP with a bad early game.)
Vladimir (Tanky AP mage who gets very scary if you don't stymie him early. Once you get your Revolver and hit level 9, you're pretty much unstoppable so long as it didn't get delayed very long.)
Volibear (Counterpick to low harass champions, but can beat anyone in lane if you can take advantage of bad positioning. He's a full on support tank.)
Wukong (Fuck monkeys, go back to the rainforest so I can destroy your habitat for paper and use your hands for an ashtrays.)
Yorick (The premier top laner. High sustain and high harass, get a tear and/or a chalice and just harass harass harass until they die/leave lane. Late game, you deal no damage and aren't really much of a threat, but if you ult your carry you're going to destroy people in team fights.)
Can't get a worthwhile teammate to save my life.
Cho - Extremely safe pick, doesn't have many bad matchups (worst I have ever had was Fizz). He has crazy sustain, and once you are able to properly land rupture, he is awesome. Definitely recommend, but give Cho quite a few games to get a feel for him. Great against Yorick, just gives no shits about ghouls.
Gangplank - Easy mode top, even safer pick than ChoGath. He has more bad matchups, but is rewarded for farming with his Q, so if you can't kill the enemy laner, just farm. Can't really lose, especially with a global ult that allows you to rack up assist gold. A couple of his hard counters are Pantheon and Udyr. He is great against Jax.
Olaf - Very situational pick, has lots of bad matchups, but also some very very good ones. Counters most of the non-sustain bruisers. I have had great success against Nasus, Garen, Tryndamere, Pantheon, Udyr, Riven and Singed(until like level 8 or 9). Anyone with range will really mess you up though.
I'm kinda disappointed I read the spoiler. Now I'm not sure if I'll watch the replay. >_<
I salute you captain. *tip o' the hat*
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I disagree with that AD nid build. With the atmogs route, you don't deal enough damage and have trouble killing without red buff. Going triforce instead makes your damage really scary in the midgame and you're still very hard to kill.
Steam: Drokmir
You know, if you run Nashor's tooth instead of Malady you only lose 9 damage on your e splash, you get 25% CDR, 45 damage on your q, and some extra on your heal. It builds from even cheaper MP5 and attack speed (and you don't actually have to finish for a while, stinger is 40% AS/10% CDR for 1000 gold, compare to the two daggers needed for Malady which is 30% AS for 840 gold) and you can start with 2 health pots for even stronger sustain in lane over the dorans.
With the 25% CDR from Nashor's earlier you aren't locked into Frozen Heart as an armor tank item, you can go with something cheaper (Thornmail/Aegis) or something better (Randuins). With CDR boots this caps you so you can ignore CDR in masteries (Scaling Blues + CDR boots > Merc treads + CDR blues with the exception of the tenacity) and go straight for damage/tank/utility
Bull. Its better to study what you can't normally see because its easy to learn from experiences that clearly connect action to result. The less immediate the feedback the harder it is to learn, and so the more important it is to focus on it. To learn best you should look at wins and losses equally. Compare similar situations in wins and losses and see what happened. In a loss, look at the time leading up to a team fight and ask yourself was the team fight a bad idea in general then, or were you unprepared? If you can't see what is different you can't see which it is.
This is also why its important to have other people look at your play. Because they are not you, they will have an easier time seeing what you do instead of what you think you do. They will see things that don't jive with their way of thinking and bring them to your attention.
When you go back and look at replays you're not doing muscle memory training, you're doing research, ingraining good practices have nothing to do with it.
Yeah, that's the point. Nidalee is a pro farmer once she hits 6, so it's not like it's going to take sooo long to build your mog; you should be able to afford 5800 gold worth of items by the 20 minute mark, easy. Atma should be ~27.
Basically, you piss off your enemy laner and run around being a giant douchebag, stealing camps, diving towers and harassing other lanes because of your A+ maneuverability and A+ inability to take meaningful damage. There's a big difference between +1000hp and +250, and Cougar's Q is going to deal a lot of damage even if you only have a Wriggles for AD.
@Goumindong: Malady builds faster and shreds MR (effecting MR after her passive shred), meaning your on-hit and Qs mean more. I've tried the Fiendish Codex start, it simply doesn't give me what I want, when I want it, and when it's finally done it's not really worth anything to me. CDR is great on Kayle, but the itemization kills her early game and her late game simply isn't good enough to support it. As for FH against Aegis or Rand, Kayle can't afford to sit on GP/10 like Malphite or GP can, making it more expensive on her than it is on other top laners. Aegis is for junglers or support who have lower gold incomes, building it top lane is a bit of a waste unless neither of them plan on buying it.
I agree with Thorn, every ad nidalee I've seen who builds atmogs is completely useless in fights; it's the triforce nidalees that scare me to death
Then I met Yorick.
But seriously, I felt like I was playing a "Dodge the Ghouls" minigame rather than LoL.
Maybe it's just preference, but personally I need to know that if I jump onto their carry in a teamfight that I'm going to be able to kill them in a reasonable amount of time. Nidalee doesn't bring CC to the table, so being tanky doesn't help if they can ignore you.
Steam: Drokmir
So not a huge change, but I think the new build will give me more flexibility in my early jungle.
Boy did I counter jungle the hell out of Lee. Stole his red when it respawned too, took his wraiths constatly, took big golem whenever he cleared the little one so it could respawn. By the time I was eleven, he was dead at my hands again and still level eight. I killed him shortly after respawn. He figured after I had run from his team chasing me out of his jungle I was low enough for him to tower dive me. I was pretty friggen low too, under 15% health. But I dodged his motion fist thingy, tagged him with her fire bolt coming in, hit him with a double bite and kited him a bit with burnout. Then I turned and killed him with the towers help.
BTW, her shield doesn't stop the death laser at the enemy spawn... seems kinda stupid that it doesn't O_o
Nothing can survive the spawn lasers. Not even Trynd's ult.