Indie Game

pickle4321

I'm working on an indie game, and I could really use some help coming up with ideas. I already have all the gameplay done, 90% of the code is done, and most of the level design is done. The problem is that I'm an engineer, not a writer, and I'm having trouble thinking up a main character and a title.

edit:kickstarter link deleted
The game is basically a 2D metroidvania platformer/shooter with a focus on getting the best time.

Now, I'm not asking you to do all the work for me, I would just like some feedback on some of the ideas I've had so far:
A "bro" in search for the golden keg
A hot girl who is going to save her boyfriend
An alien back for revenge on scientists who experimented on him
An anime guy whose arms transform into different weapons
A buff army dude sent by the military to destroy a monster
A monster hunter who just travels around killing monsters
A robot with no memory of his past searches for his purpose
I'm also new to this forum, so if I committed some kind of faux pas don't hesitate to call me out on it

My friends and family have all given me positive feedback and said how cool it is, but I know that doesn't mean anything so I would really appreciate some honest, harsh feedback.

pickle4321

The kickstarter just got approved!

I'm still not sure how I feel about launching it before I have a title though so I would really appreciate any thoughts from anyone before I start it

CanadianWolverine

Wow, sorry, not trying to be dickish, but if you can't even be bothered to find the right forum section for this or ask for moderator approval or even title your thread something so general ... yeah, I don't think you are going to get a whole lot of support. In fact, I am now thinking that no one should click that link provided and I am wondering when this profile was made...

Death of Rats

1: Make the camera closer in on the character. If you're truly going for the metroid feel, the character should be rather large on the screen.

2: It doesn't look like you have 90% of the code done from that video. How are you going to handle bosses? Different enemy types? Upgrades? Enemies spawning ammo/health? What about different types of jumps? Wall-jumps? What you have right now could be programmed by a beginner XNA programmer in a few hours at most. Don't start a kickstarter asking for funding until you actually have something to show for it. It's not going to help your cause.

3: If you don't have an idea for the game, don't start a kickstarter. Yes, doublefine did it, but they have a degree credibility and a fanbase. It's not going to go your way.

So basically, work more on the programming side, get a more feature complete game going. Art and sound are secondary to gameplay, but decide upon a theme and stick with that when designing your levels. When you have both a theme, and a more feature complete engine, try the kickstarter route to get funding once again but this time you'll seem focused and know what you're doing. No one wants to give money to a project that doesn't seem to know what direction it's moving in. At the moment, you have a 2d sidescroller that most programmers could program in the matter of hours.

pickle4321

Ok, where should I have posted this? Now that I look at it, this actually isn't the forum section that I thought I posted it in anyway. Sorry about the generic thread title, do you have any suggestions on what I could rename it?

Death of Rats

Help/Advice maybe? But there you'd probably get a lot of pushback from people or the thread locked. G&T has a rule where you HAVE to ask moderators before pimping out your own stuff. And, well, until you have more to actually show, I kinda doubt it'd be approved.

pickle4321

Death of Rats wrote: »

1: Make the camera closer in on the character. If you're truly going for the metroid feel, the character should be rather large on the screen.

2: It doesn't look like you have 90% of the code done from that video. How are you going to handle bosses? Different enemy types? Upgrades? Enemies spawning ammo/health? What about different types of jumps? Wall-jumps? What you have right now could be programmed by a beginner XNA programmer in a few hours at most. Don't start a kickstarter asking for funding until you actually have something to show for it. It's not going to help your cause.

3: If you don't have an idea for the game, don't start a kickstarter. Yes, doublefine did it, but they have a degree credibility and a fanbase. It's not going to go your way.

So basically, work more on the programming side, get a more feature complete game going. Art and sound are secondary to gameplay, but decide upon a theme and stick with that when designing your levels. When you have both a theme, and a more feature complete engine, try the kickstarter route to get funding once again but this time you'll seem focused and know what you're doing. No one wants to give money to a project that doesn't seem to know what direction it's moving in. At the moment, you have a 2d sidescroller that most programmers could program in the matter of hours.

1. Thanks for the feedback
2. The code for different enemies, guns, upgrades, actually almost everything you mentioned is already done. Specific enemy behavior is about all that is needed. Most of those features aren't in the video because I don't have any of the art assets yet to show them off.
3. The idea for the game is in the gameplay. Right now I am just trying to figure out the minimal story and art direction

pickle4321

I'm not trying to push the kickstarter on anybody here, I'm honestly just looking for feedback. I could even delete the link to the kickstarter (which is just in preview mode) but I didn't want to re-type all of the description

Death of Rats

If those features are in, then put them in the video. If you don't have the sprites for it yet, just use stock sprites, it'll allow people to see what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be mean here, but without showing that you have the programming skills to make a metroid style game, noone is going to want to back your project. I'm honestly trying to give you feedback, not be a naysayer. A lot of very talented people don't know how to present their stuff in order to get it funded. Making sure you have the presentation right would go a long way to getting this thing made.

pickle4321

Death of Rats wrote: »

If those features are in, then put them in the video. If you don't have the sprites for it yet, just use stock sprites, it'll allow people to see what you're talking about. I'm not trying to be mean here, but without showing that you have the programming skills to make a metroid style game, noone is going to want to back your project.

I understand you aren't trying to be mean, and i honestly appreciate your feedback. I know the kickstarter looks kind of sketchy, and that's why I haven't launched it yet and instead I'm trying to figure out how to make it better before I launch it.

Squidget0

I think it's premature to say that things are "done" if you don't have the art and sound in place. Level design isn't just a matter of where you put the walls and enemies. Art and sound are huge factors in guiding the player where you want them to go.

If you're interested, this article has some great analysis of Super Metroid and the variety of ways in which it guides the player.

I don't want to discourage you because there are definitely resources available that would let you complete a project like this. I just want to stress how much thought goes into the design of a good Metroidvania, and how far the design extends beyond creating different shooting patterns and powerups.

Also, even if you're not a sprite artist there are still techniques you can use to make a good-looking 2d game. Think about the silhouette art of Limbo or Pixeljunk (both of which you can check out on Steam if you want.)

Anyway, best of luck.

pickle4321

I would really like to say something about how i've considered different gameplay elements, but i'm not sure how to go about it

The main goal of the game is that you are timed, and it shows your time and completion % when you kill the end boss.
With the non-linear level design, there is multiple routes to the end and players are encouraged to explore and find faster routes.
More direct routes will have harder enemies that really punish you for ignoring them, while if you take a more roundabout path you might not have to stop and shoot as much
Most of the mini-bosses can be skipped to try to decrease your time, but that also means skipping the associated weapon that drops from the boss

CanadianWolverine

If you are serious about wanting honest feed back and not just on some fishing expedition, remove the link from the OP, heck, even apologize for this shit thread, and PM me, I will be glad to give you some feed back in that way. I wouldn't be surprised with how helpful DoR is being if he wouldn't be receptive to being PM'ed as well.

You want to know what I was expecting when I clicked on your thread? A debate and discussion in regards to Indie Games that is some way didn't fit just having a proper thread over in Games & Technology, comprende?

pickle4321

Squidget0 wrote: »

I think it's premature to say that things are "done" if you don't have the art and sound in place. Level design isn't just a matter of where you put the walls and enemies. Art and sound are huge factors in guiding the player where you want them to go.

If you're interested, this article has some great analysis of Super Metroid and the variety of ways in which it guides the player.

I don't want to discourage you because there are definitely resources available that would let you complete a project like this. I just want to stress how much thought goes into the design of a good Metroidvania, and how far the design extends beyond creating different shooting patterns and powerups.

Also, even if you're not a sprite artist there are still techniques you can use to make a good-looking 2d game. Think about the silhouette art of Limbo or Pixeljunk (both of which you can check out on Steam if you want.)

Anyway, best of luck.

Well, the point of the kickstarter is that I would like to hire an artist for these things but I have no budget

Death of Rats

Ok, well some more advice then. Don't settle on a game direction that has no atmosphere. The original Metroid games weren't about the level design, art, or even gameplay as they were about atmosphere (This isn't to say that gameplay and level design weren't HUGE in Metroid, but atmosphere was king). A lot of your game themes aren't really well suited for this. Think about the feeling you want your player to get while playing the game. Do you want them to feel isolated? Like a badass? Do you want them to feel like they're learning, not just new powers, but about themselves? The world they inhabit? Is it fantasy based? Sci-fi? What settings do you like in games? That would be a good place to start.

pickle4321

Death of Rats wrote: »

Ok, well some more advice then. Don't settle on a game direction that has no atmosphere. The original Metroid games weren't about the level design, art, or even gameplay as they were about atmosphere (This isn't to say that gameplay and level design weren't HUGE in Metroid, but atmosphere was king). A lot of your game themes aren't really well suited for this. Think about the feeling you want your player to get while playing the game. Do you want them to feel isolated? Like a badass? Do you want them to feel like they're learning, not just new powers, but about themselves? The world they inhabit? Is it fantasy based? Sci-fi? What settings do you like in games? That would be a good place to start.

Honestly I didn't really care about the setting at all when I first played the old metroid or castlevania games, I just really enjoyed the feeling of exploration, looking for shortcuts and shooting bad guys.

edit: I'm still in school, so I tried to set a reasonable goal for this project. Maybe $5 is too high of a price point for what I'm trying to achieve.

edit #2: I'm not trying to make some big artsy pretentious indie game like Limbo or Braid, I just want to make a fun little bite-sized metroidvania game.

Death of Rats

pickle4321 wrote: »

Honestly I didn't really care about the setting at all when I first played the old metroid or castlevania games, I just really enjoyed the feeling of exploration, looking for shortcuts and shooting bad guys.

This is atmosphere. And it's all about setting. If the setting isn't interesting you wouldn't get the feeling of exploration. Metroid can be summed up with two words: Isolation, Exploration.

In other words, for simple sidescrolling games they usually can be summed up in one or two words. It's the theme of the game. If your theme is going to be "Exploration, Ticking Clock", then what would be a good setting or story based on those two words? What would make you feel like there's a need to hurry, but a need to also explore? Not just because the game tells you to, but because the setting informs you that's the right thing to do.

pickle4321

Death of Rats wrote: »

pickle4321 wrote: »

Honestly I didn't really care about the setting at all when I first played the old metroid or castlevania games, I just really enjoyed the feeling of exploration, looking for shortcuts and shooting bad guys.

This is atmosphere. And it's all about setting. If the setting isn't interesting you wouldn't get the feeling of exploration. Metroid can be summed up with two words: Isolation, Exploration.

In other words, for simple sidescrolling games they usually can be summed up in one or two words. It's the theme of the game. If your theme is going to be "Exploration, Ticking Clock", then what would be a good setting or story based on those two words? What would make you feel like there's a need to hurry, but a need to also explore? Not just because the game tells you to, but because the setting informs you that's the right thing to do.

I never really considered it like that but you're absolutely right
edit: My original though was that the need to explore would be driven through the desire to find a faster route. I was thinking of going with 3 difficulties, and it would only be timed on hard. The easier difficulties would be more geared towards exploration and scouting, because in the harder difficulty planning your route ahead of time will make a lot of difference

Squidget0

Right, and that feeling has to figure into every aspect of the game's design. You might have enjoyed the feeling of exploration in Metroid, but I imagine you've had moments in other games where you felt lost or unsure what to do. So if you want to make a good exploration game, it's important to understand how games like Metroid are guiding the player to explore, and why you don't feel confused or bored when you play it. Metroid uses all kinds of techniques to guide the player through the early stages and ensure that they explore the 'right' places, most of which you'd never notice while playing the game.

Don't feel like you need great art to do great design. If you want to design games, just sit down and do it. Check out Nifflas's work to see how you can do a Metroidvania without a lot of complex art. He even has a toolset you can use to build your own Knytt games, if that's what you'd like to do.

Jacobkosh

this isn't really appropriate for this forum.