One that goes back to cel-animated-style 2D sprites, I hope... Well, maybe.
Unfortunately just not possible with the things Nintendo wanted to do with the gameplay. Thinks like the Mega Mushroom and Tiny mario were only possible through the use of the 3D models, as were a lot of the nice lighting effects. Sprites have to be completely redrawn for every variation, and while polygons don't don't look as good by and large, the amount of manipulation you can do with them (and which Nintendo took full advantage of in NSMB) is vastly increased.
Really?
Oh God I love that screenshot. I didn't even turn it into "snip" just so everyone would look at it twice.
bruin on
0
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
One that goes back to cel-animated-style 2D sprites, I hope... Well, maybe.
Unfortunately just not possible with the things Nintendo wanted to do with the gameplay. Thinks like the Mega Mushroom and Tiny mario were only possible through the use of the 3D models, as were a lot of the nice lighting effects. Sprites have to be completely redrawn for every variation, and while polygons don't don't look as good by and large, the amount of manipulation you can do with them (and which Nintendo took full advantage of in NSMB) is vastly increased.
That was done as a deliberate homage. it's not at all the same effect as in NSMB, which took the same Mario model and blew it up to giant sizes. That would be like an upscaled version of the same Paper Mario poly they're using for standard sized Mario. Instead it's an intentional, simplified homage to the original Mario sprite (the latest screenshots even show Nintendo using the NES SMB color scheme instead of the DK scheme in that picture). If they kept it the same look as the Paper Mario sprite, you'd have to hand-draw every single frame of motion at every size between normal and full. By using polygons you keep everything the same, just scale them, but it's the same exact model.
Chris FOM on
0
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
If they kept it the same look as the Paper Mario sprite, you'd have to hand-draw every single frame of motion at every size between normal and full. By using polygons you keep everything the same, just scale them, but it's the same exact model.
Uh, no, there's such a thing as scaling. Heck, that's what they did with the original Mario sprite there. Even then you wouldn't have to redraw every single frame of motion since big Mario can only run and jump IIRC. In any case, it wouldn't be a big deal to accomplish the same thing with sprites.
Some of these beta shots of various games have made me think we should have a 'beta games' thread or something here. I remember some borderline epic times in one of my old communities going through beta Goldeneye.
Except that scaling looks like ass when the pixels become huge and obnoxious. It's fine with the above screenshot, since the effect is intended to be an enormous, heavily pixelated original Mario sprite, but if you took the basic Paper Mario drawing and scaled it, it would be absolutely hideous. So you'd have to individually redraw each and every frame so that it would look tolerable.
And yes Absolute Zero, I understand exactly what you said, but in terms of the art style, a single textured ploygon model might as well be a sprite. It's drastically different in terms of game and level design of course, but graphically, the manipulations of a single textured polygon to create the kinds of effects seen in NSMB aren't that different than scaling a sprite. Taking that one polygon and making it huge is the same as taking a sprite and making it huge because it's not the polygon here that matters but the texture, and scaling the texture is the exact same as scaling the sprite.
Chris FOM on
0
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Except that scaling looks like ass when the pixels become huge and obnoxious. It's fine with the above screenshot, since the effect is intended to be an enormous, heavily pixelated original Mario sprite, but if you took the basic Paper Mario drawing and scaled it, it would be absolutely hideous. So you'd have to individually redraw each and every frame so that it would look tolerable.
And yes Absolute Zero, I understand exactly what you said, but in terms of the art style, a single textured ploygon model might as well be a sprite. It's drastically different in terms of game and level design of course, but graphically, the manipulations of a single textured polygon to create the kinds of effects seen in NSMB aren't that different than scaling a sprite. Taking that one polygon and making it huge is the same as taking a sprite and making it huge because it's not the polygon here that matters but the texture, and scaling the texture is the exact same as scaling the sprite.
I still must play that. Hoping for VC release sooner than later...
And I liked the Mega Mushroom. I loved just bumping into Bowser, and ripping through pipe mazes. The problem is, it wasn't destructive enough. You still were stopped by some types of obstacles.
LBD_Nytetrayn on
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
That site with all the beta games and stuff on it has some crazy stuff! It's the final fantasy betas that have grabbed me though! Final fantasy 4 on the nes?! sure it looks like a hacked version of ff1 or 3, but does anyone know if this is real/how far it got? And what is with that ff9 article? A black princess? Class system? WTF?
malerik on
0
Options
CokomonOur butts are worth fighting for!Registered Userregular
That site with all the beta games and stuff on it has some crazy stuff! It's the final fantasy betas that have grabbed me though! Final fantasy 4 on the nes?! sure it looks like a hacked version of ff1 or 3, but does anyone know if this is real/how far it got? And what is with that ff9 article? A black princess? Class system? WTF?
From the console's standpoint, it's the exact same thing. Any spritework in the post-32bits era is handled by the console as quad polygons. It's much faster than the old sprite architectures and usually much more flexible.
I'm always baffled about how much is known about early betas of the Sonic games, but next to nothing about a lot of early versions of Nintendo games. Nintendo really keeps its secrets locked up.
Read: Sega is messy. Nintendo is not.
There are times when in some Nintendo games, blocks of unused graphics are just filled with X's instead of leftover sprites. It suggests that at certain times during development, Nintendo programmers or graphics artists specifically go through and clean out some of the unused data.
On the other hand, it appears Sega never did this. They just overwrite old data with new data, but sometimes not all the old data is overwritten, so bits and pieces of graphics and whatever still exist here and there, where people eventually find'em.
I'm always baffled about how much is known about early betas of the Sonic games, but next to nothing about a lot of early versions of Nintendo games. Nintendo really keeps its secrets locked up.
It mainly has to do with the community. The sonic community is hyper organized, and the people who make it up are very tech savy - there is already guides to cracking open Sonic Wii and people are going through and examining it for unused stuff.
Plus, people in the sonic community often hunt down and interview people who made the games.
Posts
Oh God I love that screenshot. I didn't even turn it into "snip" just so everyone would look at it twice.
That's not a sprite. Paper Mario = flat polys.
Uh, no, there's such a thing as scaling. Heck, that's what they did with the original Mario sprite there. Even then you wouldn't have to redraw every single frame of motion since big Mario can only run and jump IIRC. In any case, it wouldn't be a big deal to accomplish the same thing with sprites.
And yes Absolute Zero, I understand exactly what you said, but in terms of the art style, a single textured ploygon model might as well be a sprite. It's drastically different in terms of game and level design of course, but graphically, the manipulations of a single textured polygon to create the kinds of effects seen in NSMB aren't that different than scaling a sprite. Taking that one polygon and making it huge is the same as taking a sprite and making it huge because it's not the polygon here that matters but the texture, and scaling the texture is the exact same as scaling the sprite.
http://sotss.classicgaming.gamespy.com/index.php?game=pm&page=prerelease
Most notably:
WHOA!
Yes, I realise that it's just the original title screen for Paper Mario, but it borught back memories of the first game.
Oh God, that's so beautiful.
And I liked the Mega Mushroom. I loved just bumping into Bowser, and ripping through pipe mazes. The problem is, it wasn't destructive enough. You still were stopped by some types of obstacles.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Which site are you talking about?
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
From the console's standpoint, it's the exact same thing. Any spritework in the post-32bits era is handled by the console as quad polygons. It's much faster than the old sprite architectures and usually much more flexible.
Read: Sega is messy. Nintendo is not.
There are times when in some Nintendo games, blocks of unused graphics are just filled with X's instead of leftover sprites. It suggests that at certain times during development, Nintendo programmers or graphics artists specifically go through and clean out some of the unused data.
On the other hand, it appears Sega never did this. They just overwrite old data with new data, but sometimes not all the old data is overwritten, so bits and pieces of graphics and whatever still exist here and there, where people eventually find'em.
Hey, watch these videos of mine. DO IT.
http://xoomer.alice.it/mononline/unseen/marioworldbeta.htm
this one, go to the home section and check out playstation and nes sections.
It mainly has to do with the community. The sonic community is hyper organized, and the people who make it up are very tech savy - there is already guides to cracking open Sonic Wii and people are going through and examining it for unused stuff.
Plus, people in the sonic community often hunt down and interview people who made the games.