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[Mass Effect] Operation Beachhead Next Weekend. Fun in the sun? MARK SPOILERS

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Posts

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    It was 8 pages of more ending arguing. There are no updates on any of those things.

    Yeah, just caught up, and so I see.

    I'm intrigued that people are saying that this weekend will be tied to promoting characters. Feel free to hit me up for ass kicking if I'm online (Origin: Forar80). I think I'm only 9 levels or so (a 15 and a 16?) from all at 20, and I'll definitely give it a shot to have them all ready. I've been through the google docs sheet and added like 50 people, but I should have room for more if there was anyone on the list I missed.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.

    People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
    They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
    All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.

    So people who hated everything made Mass Effect, Mass Effect, were willing to overlook all that because the ending might make up for a series they obviously didn't like anything about? Wut?

    If you think that plot holes, idiotic or pointless plot elements, and poorly written villains are what make Mass Effect, Mass Effect, then yes.

    Otherwise, you've missed the point of my post, which was that people were willing to overlook some obvious flaws in the series because they were expecting it to be worth it to stick it out to the end. However, the ending ruined all that.

    I can't imagine sitting through a series of any medium where I find that much flaw and going "Yes, but the ending, THE ENDING, it's going to make all these glaring flaws I see totally worth it".

    Alright, so lets just agree that Mass Effect in its entirety is terrible, but we should enjoy the whole thing anyway and keep playing it since we should be able to suppress our feelings.

    I'm really not sure of your point. Honestly I disagree with the three or four posters here that like the ending, but it's their right to like what they want and I'm not going to contest that. For all your complaining about vitriol, you seem to spend the most effort telling people that they are wrong and they should think as you do

    Maybe you need to look up the word vitriol. It's not vitriolic to point out the logical fallacy of "I didn't like really anything about this game or series, but I really thought the ending would fix that for me".

    Except I never said that I didn't like anything about the game or series. I was simply pointing out the fact that the series has a lot of flaws that people tend to overlook. If you don't think those flaws exist or that people overlook them, you can try to refute that. I was speculating on why people overlooked those flaws and how the ending brings all that up to the surface.

    It's kind of like having a meal at a restaurant. The meal may not be perfect, the restaurant might not have the specific drink you wanted, the appetizer might have been a little salty, the service might have been a little slow, etc. But you're willing to overlook those problems if the meal itself is generally good. However, if something really bad happens at the end of the meal like if you find a cockroach in your desert, you'll be reminded much more of all those problems that you were willing to ignore before. When you look back at it, you're probably not going to think, "the meal was good except for that roach in the dessert," you're going to think of all the things that went wrong.

    I guess my issue is that reading your first post, you listed basically everything about Mass Effect. You didn't like Cerberus, you didn't like the Reapers, you thought ME2 was pointless and could have been skipped...I mean...what DID you like about Mass Effect?

    Perhaps all those flaws get magnified for you because you see them, while others don't. I liked Cerberus, I thought ME2 was a great bridge (I mean, really, did we NEED Empire Strikes Back? Not really, it could have been skipped), and I find the Reapers to be a pretty interesting villain. Perhaps that's the crux of the issue, that it's easier for me to overlook the finish, because to me, the rest of it was five star great. In your analogy, I had a great dinner, with excellent service, an incredibly attentive wait staff, great drinks, the steak was fucking amazing...but woops, there is a pube in my ice cream. Well, that's not good, and I might want my desert money back...but damn if that steak wasn't awesome.

    At any rate, different opinions are good. I actually find it interesting that you find plot holes or flaws where I see interesting things.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • Phoenix138Phoenix138 ArizonaRegistered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:

    Anything special I want to go with for rank 4/5/6 on any of them(i.e. stasis duration vs. strength, warp lasting damage vs expose)? Also, does pull trigger explosions with stasis'd enemies?

    One last one that's nagging me, if you trigger an explosion with pull and it's not off of warp, do you still get both +50% bonuses, or is that only when your pull triggers off of your warp?

    Donnicton on
    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:


    this is pretty bad advice.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    evilthecat wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:

    this is pretty bad advice.

    [Citation Needed]


    Help me out here brah.

    Donnicton on
    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    jeddy lee wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    I was pleasantly surprised to learn that you can perform grab kills on Pyros. I assume Primes, Atlases, and Banshees are immune. How about brutes, ravagers, or phantoms?

    Same. No "boss" enemies can be grabbed.

    Pretty sure I killed a phantom last night with a grab. I do not however know if its shields were up a the time.
    Shields shouldn't matter. They don't on Pyros or Hunters.

    Wait, what do you mean grab?

    If you are "in" cover and an enemy is close enough you get a little fist symbol. If you hit your melee attack at that point you grab there bitch ass and one hit kill them. This works from standing or sitting positions. Ive only seen the icon from a standing position twice, its really hard to get them when the window of opportunity is so small.

    There's a little crate in one of the lower level areas of Firebase Glacier where the ramps, the large set of stairs and the smaller set of stairs all funnel into, and on silver you can sit there with someone else standing in the doorway and Geth will literally funnel into grab kills as they walk past that crate to chase the guy that they see sitting in the door behind you. I've gotten a gold on melee with an engineer doing nothing but grabs in one match.

    Help me remember which one Firebase Glacier is, I'm terrible with the names on the maps.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    jeddy lee wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    I was pleasantly surprised to learn that you can perform grab kills on Pyros. I assume Primes, Atlases, and Banshees are immune. How about brutes, ravagers, or phantoms?

    Same. No "boss" enemies can be grabbed.

    Pretty sure I killed a phantom last night with a grab. I do not however know if its shields were up a the time.
    Shields shouldn't matter. They don't on Pyros or Hunters.

    Wait, what do you mean grab?

    If you are "in" cover and an enemy is close enough you get a little fist symbol. If you hit your melee attack at that point you grab there bitch ass and one hit kill them. This works from standing or sitting positions. Ive only seen the icon from a standing position twice, its really hard to get them when the window of opportunity is so small.

    There's a little crate in one of the lower level areas of Firebase Glacier where the ramps, the large set of stairs and the smaller set of stairs all funnel into, and on silver you can sit there with someone else standing in the doorway and Geth will literally funnel into grab kills as they walk past that crate to chase the guy that they see sitting in the door behind you. I've gotten a gold on melee with an engineer doing nothing but grabs in one match.

    Help me remember which one Firebase Glacier is, I'm terrible with the names on the maps.

    I had to look up the name too, but it's the really really small one with the landing zone that's right next to the two ramps going up.

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    evilthecat wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:


    this is pretty bad advice.

    Nah, Milk Duck's reasoning on the Asari Adept is sound. Most of your damage is going to come from Biotic Explosion spam, which isn't affected by power damage bonuses. With a Predator X or Phalanx X, you don't need any weight bonuses for 200% recharge. Personally, I prefer the Asari Justicar power bonuses to make Throw spam hit harder on normal enemies, and so I can use the Carnifex without penalty.

    For the other questions, Warp and Throw biotic explosion bonuses stack. For warp I recommend Detonate/Expose/Recharge, for Throw Force/Detonate/Force&Damage, for Stasis Strength/Recharge/Bubble.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    TerminatorShepard.jpg

    Aw man, that's what the implant scars look like in ME3? Wish you could be scarred and keep your paragonity. :|

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:


    this is pretty bad advice.

    Nah, Milk Duck's reasoning on the Asari Adept is sound. Most of your damage is going to come from Biotic Explosion spam, which isn't affected by power damage bonuses. Personally, I prefer the Asari Justicar power bonuses to make Throw spam hit harder on normal enemies, and so I can use the Carnifex without penalty.

    For the other questions, Warp and Throw biotic explosion bonuses stack. For warp I recommend Detonate/Expose/Recharge, for Throw Force/Detonate/Force&Damage, for Stasis Strength/Recharge/Bubble.

    Yeah I know they stack off of eachother if you Warp and then Pull, but let's say you cause a detonation with Stasis/Pull(assuming you can, noone has answered this yet), will you still get both bonuses on the detonation, or just the +50% from Pull?

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hmm, I finally unlocked Asari Adept yesterday, and I'm thinking of how to build it. Anyone have any standards? I'm thinking stasis bubble is the "go to" ability for Silver+(does pull trigger detonations with stasis'd enemies?), and in practice it seems like warp/pull is too hefty to use(recharge/travel time, dodgebots, etc.) even with the +100% biotic explosion bonus.

    Full Stasis (Bubble), full Warp, full Throw, full Fitness. Forget Asari Justicar; the only thing you gain from that tree is extra power damage and weight capacity. And honestly? It's not your power damage that's doing the bulk of the work for you -- it's Stasis Bubble and Biotic Explosions. Weight Capacity isn't big either, since a Predator will give you a 200% recharge time with absolutely nothing invested in Asari Justicar. If you team up with other biotics, you can do absolutely incredible shit, like this:


    this is pretty bad advice.

    Nah, Milk Duck's reasoning on the Asari Adept is sound. Most of your damage is going to come from Biotic Explosion spam, which isn't affected by power damage bonuses. Personally, I prefer the Asari Justicar power bonuses to make Throw spam hit harder on normal enemies, and so I can use the Carnifex without penalty.

    For the other questions, Warp and Throw biotic explosion bonuses stack. For warp I recommend Detonate/Expose/Recharge, for Throw Force/Detonate/Force&Damage, for Stasis Strength/Recharge/Bubble.

    Yeah I know they stack off of eachother if you Warp and then Pull, but let's say you cause a detonation with Stasis/Pull(assuming you can, noone has answered this yet), will you still get both bonuses on the detonation, or just the +50% from Pull?

    Just the 50% from Throw. You can easily tell how much less Stasis/Throw explosions do compared to Warp/Throw ones.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • Praetorian MagePraetorian Mage Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I realize that this is probably a ridiculous request, but would it be at all possible to get a spoiler-free explanation of the indoctrination theory?
    Just going by the name, it seems like even if it were true, it would have the same effect of invalidating everything the player does, because they're just being mind-controlled. If that's true, then the theory turning out to be true wouldn't fix the ending at all in my opinion.

    I also haven't played Arrival, so I'd appreciate if there were no spoilers for that either.

    I certainly wouldn't be surprised if this isn't possible, but it would be great if it were.

    Edited to not have spoilers. Apparently I figured a spoiler out on my own despite not playing ME3? I guess I'm mostly interested in whether I could be right about it not fixing the ending.

    Praetorian Mage on
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    The irony of including spoilers in a post asking for a spoiler-free explanation...

  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    I realize that this is probably a ridiculous request, but would it be at all possible to get a spoiler-free explanation of the indoctrination theory?
    Just going by the name, it seems like even if it were true, it would have the same effect of invalidating everything the player does, because they're just being mind-controlled. If that's true, then the theory turning out to be true wouldn't fix the ending at all in my opinion.

    I also haven't played Arrival, so I'd appreciate if there were no spoilers for that either.

    I certainly wouldn't be surprised if this isn't possible, but it would be great if it were.

    Edited to not have spoilers. Apparently I figured a spoiler out on my own despite not playing ME3?

    Hrm, spoiler free indoctrination theory:

    I think it would have to be explained as basically; the ending is so out of left field, that the only explanation is that the contact with so many reapers over three games is causing you to hallucinate things and the set of endings minus one is basically the reapers taking over your mind a la Saren. Pretty abstract.

  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?

    Future Employee of Planetary Acquisitions, Inc.
    pNRtexA.png
  • ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Azusa Ca - The Quarry Armpit of AmericaRegistered User regular
    TerminatorShepard.jpg

    Aw man, that's what the implant scars look like in ME3? Wish you could be scarred and keep your paragonity. :|

    Aye I hear ya man. I loved using the save game editor to give me full renegade points right when you wake up on the operating table and then do nothing but paragon choices for the rest of the game. Really made me feel the part of being "woken up mid-operation" and seeing how freaky you look as you slowly regain your humanity.

    Hopefully someone will figure out how to do that in due time with ME3.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?
    Probably because they couldn't. When you beat Sovereign in the first game, you cut off reaper control from the citadel...their signals don't work anymore. Of course, this leads to the next question...how did they get the citadel to move and reconfigure itself?

    I don't know...I'm out of answers.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Technically, the writers at least included a handwave to discount the ME1 backdoor through the Citadel.
    Allers raises that possibility and it fades to black as Shepard is about to answer, then fades back in on "wow nice answers!", loosely implying that a rational answer exists.

    kedinik on
  • Phoenix138Phoenix138 ArizonaRegistered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?
    That along with why they didn't take control of the Citadel at the start of the game. Though I guess it was nice of them to give Shepard a place to hang out and dance.

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    kedinik wrote: »
    Technically, the writers at least included a handwave to discount the ME1 backdoor through the Citadel.
    Allers raises that possibility and it fades to black as Shepard is about to answer, then fades back in on "wow nice answers!", loosely implying that a rational answer exists.

    I never saw that because I ignored Allers after the one interview. I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse in my eyes.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?
    Probably because they couldn't. When you beat Sovereign in the first game, you cut off reaper control from the citadel...their signals don't work anymore. Of course, this leads to the next question...how did they get the citadel to move and reconfigure itself?

    I don't know...I'm out of answers.
    Eh, they roll in, drop a million husks and whatnot to kill everyone, then have Harbinger 'assume direct control' to type in a manual override. Why they didn't turn off all the mass relays so that nobody could come after them is a seperate issue.

    One nice mid-game touch was that Bioware had done such a good job developing the Solarian race, that when their leader announced that they had messed with the Shroud in order to prevent it's use to distribute the cure, I didn't even think twice about it. It was just, yep, I could see them planning ahead like that.

  • CarbonFireCarbonFire See you in the countryRegistered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?

    Because then we wouldn't get an epic space battle! And the Reapers LOVE epic space battles!

    Steam: CarbonFire MWO, PSN, Origin: Carb0nFire
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    kedinik wrote: »
    Technically, the writers at least included a handwave to discount the ME1 backdoor through the Citadel.
    Allers raises that possibility and it fades to black as Shepard is about to answer, then fades back in on "wow nice answers!", loosely implying that a rational answer exists.

    I never saw that because I ignored Allers after the one interview. I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse in my eyes.

    If nothing else it made me laugh that they didn't have a better answer.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?
    Probably because they couldn't. When you beat Sovereign in the first game, you cut off reaper control from the citadel...their signals don't work anymore. Of course, this leads to the next question...how did they get the citadel to move and reconfigure itself?

    I don't know...I'm out of answers.
    The modification to the Keepers prevented them from being teleported in automatically. The program just gave you temporary control over the Citadel so you could prevent Sovereign from doing his thing. You cut off Reaper access to the Citadel by killing Sovereign so he couldn't manually teleport the Reapers in.
    :
    11:03

    Holy shit, the conversation with Vigil was over 15 minutes long.

    Couscous on
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    Vigil until the end of ME1 was so well paced and written.

  • Phoenix138Phoenix138 ArizonaRegistered User regular
    CarbonFire wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    The citadel could turn off the relays, but only under Reaper control. The council has no clue how to tell the citadel to do that, only a reaper signal could. So they could say or want to say what you stated, but have no clue how to send the kill signal.
    Which brings up the question of why the Reapers did not disable the network after moving the Citadel to Earth?

    Because then we wouldn't get an epic space battle! And the Reapers LOVE epic space battles!

    I guess when all else fails we can always just chalk it up to The Arrogance of the Reapers.

  • SirEtchwartsSirEtchwarts Great Power Great CostumesRegistered User regular
    kedinik wrote: »
    Vigil until the end of ME1 was so well paced and written.

    This x 1000.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I loved the vigil conversation, it was so good and in direct contrast to the
    Catalyst "conversation"

    Also it had that really amazing awe inspiring Mass Effect theme playing the whole time that just nailed it in atmosphere.

    Not really related, how the fuck have I never read the Foundation series. I feel like such a fake. I just read the whole synopsis for the series and it's bizarre how much ME riffs off of it, even to the point of a
    damn near identical ending.

    Now I've got to go to the book store tonight and see if they have any copies.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.

    The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.

    Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.

    And the ending didn't do that.

    Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.

    Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
    Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
    The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.

    Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.

    You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.

    I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her. I am obligated to deal with unpleasant people at work.

    I am not obligated to train myself to tolerate ME3's ending and I cannot force myself to suddenly enjoy the rest of the game. It's pretty much lost emotional resonance from me and I have absolutely no desire to play anything created by Bioware anymore. The onus is on Bioware to change my mind or not, it is not on me.

    Perfectly said. Hopefully what they do in April will be worth it.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    re: endings
    the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that my problems with the endings are ENTIRELY based on how the choices are framed

    starkid is what kills it for me, dream sequence is what kills it for me

    it would have been fucking AMAZING to get to the citadel and have a 'the good, the bad, and the ugly'-style showdown with TIM, anderson, and shepard.

    picture it: shep makes it to the beam with anderson, and as the crucible connects, all these new terminals start to appear in the council chambers. TIM runs over to one and starts uploading his reaper control signal, which will not only control the reapers, but also the mass relays and anything that has reaper code (EDI, geth). Anderson finds a panel to overload that will destroy the reapers (and the relays). meanwhile EDI contacts you by radio and talks about discovering a way to overwrite the reapers' programming using shep's consciousness. sorta like how shep had to go into TRONWORLD to do the stuff on legion's rannoch mission. only this time, it's not nearly as safe.

    a THREE-WAY CONVERSATION BATTLE ENSUES, illustrating the various pros and cons of each choice.

    that way bioware gets to have its 3 endings and it makes sense in the universe instead of this dream crap.

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  • DeaderinredDeaderinred Registered User regular
    oh god if it ended like that with the music from the film i would be one happy chappy.

  • Phoenix138Phoenix138 ArizonaRegistered User regular
    I loved the vigil conversation, it was so good and in direct contrast to the
    Catalyst "conversation"

    Also it had that really amazing awe inspiring Mass Effect theme playing the whole time that just nailed it in atmosphere.

    Not really related, how the fuck have I never read the Foundation series. I feel like such a fake. I just read the whole synopsis for the series and it's bizarre how much ME riffs off of it, even to the point of a
    damn near identical ending.

    Now I've got to go to the book store tonight and see if they have any copies.

    I think it would be interesting to compile a list of all the possible Mass Effect influences/source material. A while back I was explaining to some friends that one of the aspects I liked most about the series is how it so liberally borrowed elements from sci fi classics. There were callbacks to Ringworld and Ender's Game in particular that I really enjoyed. What I liked about this is that, to me at least, it seems like sci fi has less well-established archetypes than sword & sorcery fantasy does. If you're writing a fantasy novel and you want to include elves and dwarves, you don't have to spend much time explaining what they are. Whereas in sci fi there are archetypes that exist, but they seem less well-known.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Phoenix138 wrote: »
    Lars wrote: »
    Did they ever explain how the Citadel was going to do that thing in ME1?
    That thing being "warp all the Reapers from Dark Space to the Citadel." There's (apparently) no Mass Relay in Dark Space, so no gate at all on their end. So was the Citadel just going to be straight-up teleporting them or what? And would it have just simultaneously grabbed every Reaper in existence or fired them out one at a time? If the Reapers had magical teleportation technology that doesn't need a gate on both ends, why didn't they have any kind of back-up? Why wasn't Sovereign or the Collectors or whoever tasked with setting up a second teleporter? How come nobody on the Citadel ever noticed technology of that magnitude (especially since the Mass Relay's lesser form of transportation requires utterly massive Eezo cores)? Yeah, you're not supposed to mess with stuff there because of the Keepers, but that didn't stop Chorban and I doubt he's alone.

    Also, any pics of the green cupcakes yet?
    There was a relay in dark space that the Citadel links to.

    What bothered me is that Vigil implies that the Citadel could shutdown other mass relays in the galaxy, which is what the Reapers did in the previous cycles to isolate the galaxy. Was this something only the Reapers knew how to do? Because otherwise it was a pretty big oversight on the part of the council to not at least have someone monitoring the going-ons in Batarian space after the events of The Arrival DLC. Something along the lines of, "hey this probably sounds crazy but if a race of incredibly large sentient robots show up in Batarian space and wreck the joint, turn off their relays so we at least have a few more years to prepare our defenses."
    It's pretty clear that only the reapers know how to make the citadel and the mass relays do all the secret stuff thats built into them

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • DalantiaDalantia Registered User regular
    Beginning to hate biotics even more - I've seen some that will go out of their way to spam Throw in my general vicinity so that I'll have to put up with screen shake while I'm lining up a shot.

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Dalantia wrote: »
    Beginning to hate biotics even more - I've seen some that will go out of their way to spam Throw in my general vicinity so that I'll have to put up with screen shake while I'm lining up a shot.

    Is this some kind of trolling technique they are doing to keep your score low so they can "win"?

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • DalantiaDalantia Registered User regular
    I guess.

    I just find it.. frustrating. And petty.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I have literally never seen anybody do that

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    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • wiltingwilting Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Regarding the Citadel:

    One can only conclude that the Protheans fiddling with the Citadel prevented the Reapers from using it to shut down the gate network, at least in the short term. It is unknown whether Sovereign was aware of this, but it would certainly appear that Harbinger was given that the Reapers didn't bother to attack the Citadel until it became a direct threat.

    Given that the Citadel however turned out to be an entity unto itself, I suppose either the Reapers were either always aware of this, or that the Citadel's control of the Reapers was also disrupted by the Prothean team, which is an idea I like a lot more than indoctrination theory, but for which there is likewise little supporting evidence. Whatever the nature of the Prothean's sabotage to the Citadel, if they were aware that the Citadel was self-aware or not (I'm guessing not), it would appear to be something it couldn't repair itself without Reaper action.

    Although one might also speculate that the Citadel doesn't directly control the Reapers or administrate the cycle, and passively observes for changes in the pattern, to allow for new possibilities. In other words, it wanted to wait and see what would happen rather than directly intervene by repairing the Reaper signal. An idea I also like.

    wilting on
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