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[Mass Effect] Operation Beachhead Next Weekend. Fun in the sun? MARK SPOILERS

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Posts

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    I'm waiting on Gibbed's save editor to get polished up into a format I can understand without digging through raw tables for my subsequent ME3 playthroughs.

    ME3 killed my desire to replay ME2 mechanically, and I'd rather play the multi than spend time looking through the collection of online saves.

    Also holy shit, did not even register that you can buy packs with real money. Bioware are probably making a killing!

    Probably are with people screwing up. I accidentally bought a spectre pack with cash money the other day.

    That was DLC money goddammit!

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    I don't think there's any point, the game's mechanics are pretty shallow as is, trying to play a vanguard as a non-vanguard isn't going to be as fun as simply picking another class.

    If you want to play a vanguard on silver or gold in the way it's supposed to be played you're going to need a team (pubbies won't cut it most of the time), you're going to need solid positioning and for the love of god, when you charge in don't leave your team's field of fire.

    I can't give any specific tips on this playstyle as I haven't done it myself but I've had a few vanguards on gold that did the above, rocked the scoreboard and didnt die once.
    Ah, ammo powers and warping up as many targets as possible for the vanguard to detonate/elementalboom.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Ok does anyone know what the
    Starchild conversation music is called? Not "An End, Once and for All" but the music which plays when you're talking to it.

    EDIT: Nevermind found it.

    what's the track name?

    On YouTube it's "The Catalyst", and it's the unofficial OST.

    I'm getting a little annoyed with the official OST for games tending to exclude good tracks.

    At least this time the official OST is closer to complete. ME2's was shameful.

    Hopefully in a bit they'll release the full ambient and combat soundtracks like they did for ME2.

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Septus wrote: »
    My thought is I need a certain amount of charging for me to bother playing the class at all. I'm fine with a fair amount of shooting I think, but not if it's like 2/3 of all that I do.

    It would seem that a vanguard could afford to do a lot of novaing if properly teamed up? Like, with someone providing stasis bubbles, or neural shocks.

    Well, my hope would be to mostly use charging to deal with very small groups of enemies or in emergencies. I find charging large groups to be far too dependent on latency to be consistently survivable.

    From a couple of quick games where I started trying this out (with the Human build), I seemed to have the most trouble with Hunters, Banshees, and Turrets.

  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    So, I finally am getting around to playing with Krogan Soldier, and this is the first time I'm playing with a Shotgun (in pretty much ANY mass effect).

    I gotta say, it's fun, but everything but the Geth Plasma Shotgun sucks. But I love, love that Geth Plasma Shotgun. Basically playing Silver matches at the moment, but it's fun to charge the GPS and blindside a Maraurader with a Carnage and shotgun blast. Inferno Grenade is awesome against Ravagers and Brutes!

    I feel this is one of the best class systems ever, because every race / class combo seems to play differently and fun like (well, except for Quarian Engineer).

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Maddoc wrote: »
    No, Drell is definitely the Vanguard Underdog

    Asari Vanguard is really good because Stasis Bubble is one of the most potent abilities in the game and Asari isn't crippled with a massive shield penalty.

    I don't get any of the drell classes. Drell Vanguard seems objectively bad, but I'll grant that I haven't given it a lot of time. There's probably a way to make drell Adept good, but I haven't figured out what it is yet.

    Reave + Cluster Grenades is hilariously spammable and decimates very large groups of enemies. And the Biotic Explosions don't get rid of Reave's DoT effect (I think), which makes it even worse!

    Edit:

    And don't poo-poo human Vanguards, at least on Silver. If you have even a moderately fast-firing shotgun you can do tremendous amounts of damage to enemy groups even in dead center of them. I see a group of Pyros and Hunters, I will dogpile the living Hell out of them, timing Charge and Nova according to the easiest way to stagger them. Nova isn't my main damage dealer here - my shotgun is. Nova is there to stagger and to set off Inferno Ammo Explosions.

    A tremendous amount of how successful you are on any difficulty isn't even a question of overall tactics, it's a question of how good you are at pulling off headshots and how aware you are of the enemies around you.

    Vanguards always do better with support, but they can hold one heavily contested flank by themselves in Silver if they're played competently and use their shotguns.

    Wyborn on
    dN0T6ur.png
  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    No, Drell is definitely the Vanguard Underdog

    Asari Vanguard is really good because Stasis Bubble is one of the most potent abilities in the game and Asari isn't crippled with a massive shield penalty.

    I don't get any of the drell classes. Drell Vanguard seems objectively bad, but I'll grant that I haven't given it a lot of time. There's probably a way to make drell Adept good, but I haven't figured out what it is yet.

    Reave + Cluster Grenades is hilariously spammable and decimates very large groups of enemies. And the Biotic Explosions don't get rid of Reave's DoT effect (I think), which makes it even worse!

    Yah. Drell and Asari adepts are just so superior to their human counterparts it's not funny.

    If you can get another adept or even a vanguard to combo with you, you can run around reaving everything in sight and then someone can come behind you and detonate the effects (and the DoT remains!). Reave a Ravager and launch some Cluster Grenades and pretty much everything in the vicinity dies. On Firebase Glacier, you can really rack up huge killstreaks with Cluster Grenades.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Any advice for speccing combat drone in multi? I'm guessing extra shields is rather pointless which makes ranks 4+5 rather easy but unsure whether to plump for rockets or chain lightning at rank 6.

    I like going for the rocket drone, and spec the extra damage to upgrade the rocket's damage (I think it does something like 640 damage to a 2m area at this point).

    The area shock upgrades are good for CC--quite handy in Bronze and still useful in Silver, but I've found not quite as effective as having Dronie rocketing dudes in the face.

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Septus wrote: »
    My thought is I need a certain amount of charging for me to bother playing the class at all. I'm fine with a fair amount of shooting I think, but not if it's like 2/3 of all that I do.

    It would seem that a vanguard could afford to do a lot of novaing if properly teamed up? Like, with someone providing stasis bubbles, or neural shocks.

    Well, my hope would be to mostly use charging to deal with very small groups of enemies or in emergencies. I find charging large groups to be far too dependent on latency to be consistently survivable.

    From a couple of quick games where I started trying this out (with the Human build), I seemed to have the most trouble with Hunters, Banshees, and Turrets.

    I ran with a vanguard on my asari adept

    we stuck together the entire match

    it was RAPE

    large group? stasis bubble > charge > nova > throw

    it's all over folks

    I think vanguards work really well with a cohesive team, hard to play on silver/gold without someone to back you up, but with an adept backer, you are an explosive god

    eahenryii wrote: »

    i've resorted to reading your posts in William Shatner's voice.

    I am now using the Christopher Walken voice.
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Neli wrote: »
    And in the ME1 and ME2 endings, you had the means to understand the possible consequences of the choices you made - in ME3 they're so confusing that you're not even sure what it is that you're doing

    Only
    Synthesis is confusing and it was the first time we got a third choice in an ending for a mass effect game. It was basically the "wild card" choice so of course it was going to be a little wild. The Child does say exactly what it will do as well...Problem isn't that the choice isn't outlined, the problem is the choice itself. It wasn't a satisfying choice.

    The other two endings, "control" and "destruction" are fairly damn clear to me, though certain things like having EDI walk out of Normandy during the Destroy ending and stuff really makes a mess of everything. :whistle:
    Distruction is a perfectly good renegade ending option. The Reapers are destroyed no matter the cost (Geth and EDI). The other two wander off into 'huh?' land. Control is too risky from a trope standpoint, plus TIM thought it was a good idea, so that is a huge strike against choosing it. And of course Synthesis is right out of left field.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Drell Adept is one of my favorite classes period

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Tejs wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    No, Drell is definitely the Vanguard Underdog

    Asari Vanguard is really good because Stasis Bubble is one of the most potent abilities in the game and Asari isn't crippled with a massive shield penalty.

    I don't get any of the drell classes. Drell Vanguard seems objectively bad, but I'll grant that I haven't given it a lot of time. There's probably a way to make drell Adept good, but I haven't figured out what it is yet.

    Reave + Cluster Grenades is hilariously spammable and decimates very large groups of enemies. And the Biotic Explosions don't get rid of Reave's DoT effect (I think), which makes it even worse!

    Yah. Drell and Asari adepts are just so superior to their human counterparts it's not funny.

    That's because the human adept is actually disguised as the human sentinel. Warp + Throw. Ignore Tech armor. Voila, you're an adept.

  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Ender wrote: »
    I think vanguards work really well with a cohesive team, hard to play on silver/gold without someone to back you up, but with an adept backer, you are an explosive god

    That may just be my problem then. I've played a few games with the fine folks here, but I've still mostly played with pugs.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    I would take the Sniper Rifle off for one. Sniper Rifles. Sniper Rifles just don't mesh well with the Vanguards move set at all.

    Spec Stasis for recharge speed since it is more reliable than the bonus power thing.

    Pull Asari Vanguard Fitness all the way up. You can get away with only having 5 in Justicar if you want. Headshot is fine since Asari Justicar will be using biotic explosions anyway. Though if you're going that route might as well take the +15% weapon damage increase.

    For your human vanguard I would go.

    Charge 6(Area, Power Dam, Shields)
    Nova 6(Damage, Recharge, Pierce)
    Alliance Training(Capacity, Power Damage, Weight)
    Fitness(All the defensive skills)

    The thing with human are that they get a -.2 cooldown reduction for any weapon they equip when they have the -20% skill so with two weapons they get -.4 penalty.

    For guns I would equip.

    Shotgun(Always with Smart choke/Barrel): Either Katana, Scimitar, Disciple)
    Pistol: Predator X with armor piercing/barrel optimally. If you don't have either just use whatever until you do.

    With a maxed out Katana or Scmitar and alliance training for weight you can still have a cooldown at 191% and you're pretty effective at close and far range. I would prefer you use the Disciple since it staggers through shields/has very low weight but as that is hard to come by/level up Katana and Scimitar work just fine, I've been using the Scimitar myself because of its high rate of fire.

    Basically, You'll still be using nova for damage but this build will generally make you more effective because not only will it let you get off shots between recharges(especially with the Scimitar) but it gives you time to look around before you Nova. Also, if you get into a situations where you feel Nova might be to dangerous you'll generally be able to shotgun stun an enemy, back off to corner, and rethink your situation.

    Also, I've found that the only difference between a 191 cooldown and a 200% cooldown is like .1-.2 sec time and with how long the animation for nova takes or how long you can stun enemies with Charge, shotgun, or Nova it won't really matter.

    Also, I'm going to try specing Nova for Area on my secondary Vanguard instead of power to see how that works. May not be as strong as my male but I'm going to test how well she stuns people.

    As for my recharge speed over half nova suggestion that's just personal feeling since I feel like you're really hurting your damage output by using that ability and as long as you play Vanguard well it won't matter too much.

    Dragkonias on
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    I don't think there's any point, the game's mechanics are pretty shallow as is, trying to play a vanguard as a non-vanguard isn't going to be as fun as simply picking another class.

    If you want to play a vanguard on silver or gold in the way it's supposed to be played you're going to need a team (pubbies won't cut it most of the time), you're going to need solid positioning and for the love of god, when you charge in don't leave your team's field of fire.

    I can't give any specific tips on this playstyle as I haven't done it myself but I've had a few vanguards on gold that did the above, rocked the scoreboard and didnt die once.
    Ah, ammo powers and warping up as many targets as possible for the vanguard to detonate/elementalboom.

    I've found (from watching as an engineer) yeah, the team's essential. It's even better if you can get some engineers providing cover fire, because you can tech burst off their abilities, and overload spam will lock down dudes while your charge or nova cooldown is still waiting. It still requires a shitload of situational awareness and fast reflexes, but it's quite doable.

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    I need to play a game with one of you vanguard gods

    I've seen some decent vanguards in pugs, but most are a little too charge-happy

    it'd be nice to do business with a proper group of criminals again

    eahenryii wrote: »

    i've resorted to reading your posts in William Shatner's voice.

    I am now using the Christopher Walken voice.
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    The thing is people that claim to enjoy "doing something for the sake of doing it" are full of .. fecal matter.
    At some level they're investing effort into something and feeling great about the result.
    If the result is undesirable or not worth the projected amount of effort required to get there then people will simply not engage in that behaviour.
    This is why people are likely still playing the multiplayer but not doing their 18th SP playthrough.

    Well...most people feel the way you do. A minority feel the milath does. I feel the way he does! Bad opinions ftw. But I've had to acknowledge that this is very much the minority opinion here. I still don't understand your point of view, but that's ok--I'm pretty sure you don't understand mine. :)

    You should not equate what I say with what I personally believe or support.
    I was trying to explain the obvious to milath.

    I understand where you're coming from, but (and this bit *is* my personal opinion) saying you enjoyed the process is bs. the process can be broken up into smaller tasks with effort and results and despite what you may claim your satisfaction with the game in this respect is based on these smaller results and not the process leading up to the "ending" ending that the others have their grievances with (the two being congruent but not identical).

    Additionally, I'm finding this "special snowflake" thing you have going on to be annoying and detestable. stop it.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Any advice for speccing combat drone in multi? I'm guessing extra shields is rather pointless which makes ranks 4+5 rather easy but unsure whether to plump for rockets or chain lightning at rank 6.

    I like going for the rocket drone, and spec the extra damage to upgrade the rocket's damage (I think it does something like 640 damage to a 2m area at this point).

    The area shock upgrades are good for CC--quite handy in Bronze and still useful in Silver, but I've found not quite as effective as having Dronie rocketing dudes in the face.

    I actually prefer the close up shock instead of the rocket on the drone, because that seems to change how the drone paths. With the rocket upgrade, the drone tends to move away from your target to a standoff distance. With the other upgrade, it tends to get in the target's face. This is nice, because Primes, Banshees, Brutes, etc will treat it almost like a decoy, except that it's actively trying to kill them. The hunter seeker aspect is much more visible with the shock upgrade as it tries to find targets.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I'm really getting sick of every time I come in this thread lately someone telling me its impossible for the ending to ruin the overall experience.

    nobody gets to decide that for me, no more than I get to decide how Orca feels about it

    override367 on
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    As Drell Adept my spam of choice is Pull to Reave.

    I took the radius upgrades on both, and the explosion damage boost on Pull.

    And yes, the Reave debuff stays even after the detonation, and usually hits all of the enemies hit by the biotic explosion.

    I save the Reave to Cluster Grenade combo for enemies immune to pull, mostly.

    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    I would take the Sniper Rifle off for one. Sniper Rifles. Sniper Rifles just don't mesh well with the Vanguards move set at all.

    Spec Stasis for recharge speed since it is more reliable than the bonus power thing.

    Pull Asari Vanguard Fitness all the way up. You can get away with only having 5 in Justicar if you want. Headshot is fine since Asari Justicar will be using biotic explosions anyway. Though if you're going that route might as well take the +15% weapon damage increase.

    For your human vanguard I would go.

    Charge 6(Area, Power Dam, Shields)
    Nova 6(Damage, Recharge, Pierce)
    Alliance Training(Capacity, Power Damage, Weight)
    Fitness(All the defensive skills)

    The thing with human are that they get a -.2 cooldown reduction for any weapon they equip when they have the -20% skill so with two weapons they get -.4 penalty.

    For guns I would equip.

    Shotgun(Always with Smart choke/Barrel): Either Katana, Scimitar, Disciple)
    Pistol: Predator X with armor piercing/barrel optimally. If you don't have either just use whatever until you do.

    With a maxed out Katana or Scmitar and alliance training for weight you can still have a cooldown at 191% and you're pretty effective at close and far range. I would prefer you use the Disciple since it staggers through shields/has very low weight but as that is hard to come by/level up Katana and Scimitar work just fine, I've been using the Scimitar myself because of its high rate of fire.

    Basically, You'll still be using nova for damage but this build will generally make you more effective because not only will it let you get off shots between recharges(especially with the Scimitar) but it gives you time to look around before you Nova. Also, if you get into a situations where you feel Nova might be to dangerous you'll generally be able to shotgun stun an enemy, back off to corner, and rethink your situation.

    Also, I've found that the only difference between a 191 cooldown and a 200% cooldown is like .1-.2 sec time and with how long the animation for nova takes or how long you can stun enemies with Nova it won't really matter.

    Also, I'm going to try specing Nova for Area on my secondary Vanguard instead of power to see how that works. May not be as strong as my male but I'm going to test how well she stuns people.

    As for my recharge speed over half nova suggestion that's just personal feeling since I feel like you're really hurting your damage output by using that ability and as long as you play Vanguard well it won't matter too much.


    Thanks! One comment and a couple of questions.

    Comment: It looks like I forgot to put the 6 next to Fitness on the Asari. I definitely meant it to be there though.

    Question: I assume you use the Predator for long range when it's too dangerous to charge in?

    Question: Do you take a lot of damage when you Nova and lose all of your barrier? Radius + Recharge does the same amount of damage as Damage + Half, and I feel a lot safer having a few hundred points of Barrier left after I Nova.

    Question: How does this work on Gold?

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    You know I haven't actually tried human Engineer yet, it just seemed like Salarian was the way to roll. Might try human tonight.

    dN0T6ur.png
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    You'll find a heavy pistol will be much more effective than the Mantis, the Carnifex/Paladin in particular. I'd get Heavy Pistol weight for your Asari and drop the last rank of shields, which will leave you able to get 200% with all heavy pistols once they're max rank. I went with recharge speed on stasis because I charge a lot less with my asari.

    Honestly you might even be better off keeping Charge at Rank 3 and maxing nades, as you'll be focusing on range.

    Played as a regular gold human vanguard vs. Cerberus earlier; came last due to two phantom instagibs, but still managed a respectable score. Human vanguard doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, just don't charge across the map like an idiot :P

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Orca wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    I don't think there's any point, the game's mechanics are pretty shallow as is, trying to play a vanguard as a non-vanguard isn't going to be as fun as simply picking another class.

    If you want to play a vanguard on silver or gold in the way it's supposed to be played you're going to need a team (pubbies won't cut it most of the time), you're going to need solid positioning and for the love of god, when you charge in don't leave your team's field of fire.

    I can't give any specific tips on this playstyle as I haven't done it myself but I've had a few vanguards on gold that did the above, rocked the scoreboard and didnt die once.
    Ah, ammo powers and warping up as many targets as possible for the vanguard to detonate/elementalboom.

    I've found (from watching as an engineer) yeah, the team's essential. It's even better if you can get some engineers providing cover fire, because you can tech burst off their abilities, and overload spam will lock down dudes while your charge or nova cooldown is still waiting. It still requires a shitload of situational awareness and fast reflexes, but it's quite doable.

    Not to toot my own horn but I regularly get +90k on Silver without any support beyond the occasional rez when I fuck up. I'm sure I'll need support on Gold but I believe I'll be able to do exceptionally well there too.

    Honestly, I've been playing every class and I'll say the biggest difference I've found with vanguard is that you constantly have to be aware of your situation while most other classes can get away with going on auto pilot.

    Give me a good Engineer and Adept and I just wreck.

    While they might not be able to solo waves like Infiltrators(simply because you have to take risks) I'm starting the think that Vanguard is one of the best if not the best class. It just that they're not as safe to use as the other classes and lag can really fuck them over.

    Dragkonias on
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    The thing is people that claim to enjoy "doing something for the sake of doing it" are full of .. fecal matter.
    At some level they're investing effort into something and feeling great about the result.
    If the result is undesirable or not worth the projected amount of effort required to get there then people will simply not engage in that behaviour.
    This is why people are likely still playing the multiplayer but not doing their 18th SP playthrough.

    Well...most people feel the way you do. A minority feel the milath does. I feel the way he does! Bad opinions ftw. But I've had to acknowledge that this is very much the minority opinion here. I still don't understand your point of view, but that's ok--I'm pretty sure you don't understand mine. :)

    You should not equate what I say with what I personally believe or support.
    I was trying to explain the obvious to milath.

    I understand where you're coming from, but (and this bit *is* my personal opinion) saying you enjoyed the process is bs. the process can be broken up into smaller tasks with effort and results and despite what you may claim your satisfaction with the game in this respect is based on these smaller results and not the process leading up to the "ending" ending that the others have their grievances with (the two being congruent but not identical).

    Sure. I got my emotional payoff on Rannoch, on Thessia, and on Tuchanka.

    I even got my payoff on Earth.

    Even on the Citadel.

    ...it's just the last 5 minutes I didn't get any payoff for, but I can live with that.

    evilthecat wrote: »
    Additionally, I'm finding this "special snowflake" thing you have going on to be annoying and detestable. stop it.

    It's simply a counter to EVERYBODY HATES THE ENDING.

    Well...no. Not everybody does. Yeah, it's flawed, but it doesn't ruin everything. Hell, some people have even liked it. They're the true bad opinion brigade--but whatever. There's no accounting for taste. I know my taste is awful.

    Orca on
    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Actually what's the standard spread for human Engies? Should I bother with Fitness at all?

    dN0T6ur.png
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    You'll find a heavy pistol will be much more effective than the Mantis, the Carnifex/Paladin in particular. I'd get Heavy Pistol weight for your Asari and drop the last rank of shields, which will leave you able to get 200% with all heavy pistols once they're max rank. I went with recharge speed on stasis because I charge a lot less with my asari.

    For whatever reason, I really don't like Heavy Pistols as a primary weapon. I even have a Carnifex, but using it as anything but a backup just bothers me.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    You know I haven't actually tried human Engineer yet, it just seemed like Salarian was the way to roll. Might try human tonight.

    It's being a space wizard without the space magic. Overload spam is a beautiful thing to watch.

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    You'll find a heavy pistol will be much more effective than the Mantis, the Carnifex/Paladin in particular. I'd get Heavy Pistol weight for your Asari and drop the last rank of shields, which will leave you able to get 200% with all heavy pistols once they're max rank. I went with recharge speed on stasis because I charge a lot less with my asari.

    Honestly you might even be better off keeping Charge at Rank 3 and maxing nades, as you'll be focusing on range.

    Played as a regular gold human vanguard vs. Cerberus earlier; came last due to two phantom instagibs, but still managed a respectable score. Human vanguard doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, just don't charge across the map like an idiot :P

    I play my Asari Vanguard as an infiltrator mostly. Dont have any points in Biotic Charge, but Lift Grenades and Stasis are maxed out. I've got the N7 Valiant, which is super useful for headshotting Stasis'd guys. For the things that arent very stasis friendly, the Valiant hits pretty hard and I have the grenades to fall back on. Works out pretty well on Silver for me. You might not be the highest scorer, but you will for sure provide utility.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Well one thing I would be curious to see, is if (very improbably) Bioware came out and said, "You know what? The writing of that ending was completely weak. I don't know what we were thinking. We're going to take a few months just to write a stellar ending and then we'll release it as free DLC. If you like the original ending, we won't make it a forced update, so you only get the alternate ending if you want it." I wonder how many people among those who 'like' the ending would actually not download that ending.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Neli wrote: »
    And in the ME1 and ME2 endings, you had the means to understand the possible consequences of the choices you made - in ME3 they're so confusing that you're not even sure what it is that you're doing

    Only
    Synthesis is confusing and it was the first time we got a third choice in an ending for a mass effect game. It was basically the "wild card" choice so of course it was going to be a little wild. The Child does say exactly what it will do as well...Problem isn't that the choice isn't outlined, the problem is the choice itself. It wasn't a satisfying choice.

    The other two endings, "control" and "destruction" are fairly damn clear to me, though certain things like having EDI walk out of Normandy during the Destroy ending and stuff really makes a mess of everything. :whistle:
    Distruction is a perfectly good renegade ending option. The Reapers are destroyed no matter the cost (Geth and EDI). The other two wander off into 'huh?' land. Control is too risky from a trope standpoint, plus TIM thought it was a good idea, so that is a huge strike against choosing it. And of course Synthesis is right out of left field.
    Destroy: What does synthetic mean in this case? If Shepard counts as partly synthetic, what else counts as synthetic? The child says "most of the technology you rely on" in low-score endings. What does that mean?

    Control: How does it work. Will Shepard become a Reaper, will his consciousness just be uploaded, etc? Can Shepard just fly the Reapers into the sun or force them to do work? In the ending, it just looks like the Reapers just fly off.

    I think they really intended the player to think about the "synthetics will always try to destroy all organics" argument and think about the endings mainly in terms of that.

    Couscous on
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Well one thing I would be curious to see, is if (very improbably) Bioware came out and said, "You know what? The writing of that ending was completely weak. I don't know what we were thinking. We're going to take a few months just to write a stellar ending and then we'll release it as free DLC. If you like the original ending, we won't make it a forced update, so you only get the alternate ending if you want it." I wonder how many people among those who 'like' the ending would actually not download that ending.

    I would love to see it happen--but given even the vague statements they've made publicly along with what Juc has said about how difficult it is to futz with things like the ending I would put it at lottery odds...

    The 2012 issue of Fornax. | Steam and Origin: Espressosaurus
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    I would take the Sniper Rifle off for one. Sniper Rifles. Sniper Rifles just don't mesh well with the Vanguards move set at all.

    Spec Stasis for recharge speed since it is more reliable than the bonus power thing.

    Pull Asari Vanguard Fitness all the way up. You can get away with only having 5 in Justicar if you want. Headshot is fine since Asari Justicar will be using biotic explosions anyway. Though if you're going that route might as well take the +15% weapon damage increase.

    For your human vanguard I would go.

    Charge 6(Area, Power Dam, Shields)
    Nova 6(Damage, Recharge, Pierce)
    Alliance Training(Capacity, Power Damage, Weight)
    Fitness(All the defensive skills)

    The thing with human are that they get a -.2 cooldown reduction for any weapon they equip when they have the -20% skill so with two weapons they get -.4 penalty.

    For guns I would equip.

    Shotgun(Always with Smart choke/Barrel): Either Katana, Scimitar, Disciple)
    Pistol: Predator X with armor piercing/barrel optimally. If you don't have either just use whatever until you do.

    With a maxed out Katana or Scmitar and alliance training for weight you can still have a cooldown at 191% and you're pretty effective at close and far range. I would prefer you use the Disciple since it staggers through shields/has very low weight but as that is hard to come by/level up Katana and Scimitar work just fine, I've been using the Scimitar myself because of its high rate of fire.

    Basically, You'll still be using nova for damage but this build will generally make you more effective because not only will it let you get off shots between recharges(especially with the Scimitar) but it gives you time to look around before you Nova. Also, if you get into a situations where you feel Nova might be to dangerous you'll generally be able to shotgun stun an enemy, back off to corner, and rethink your situation.

    Also, I've found that the only difference between a 191 cooldown and a 200% cooldown is like .1-.2 sec time and with how long the animation for nova takes or how long you can stun enemies with Nova it won't really matter.

    Also, I'm going to try specing Nova for Area on my secondary Vanguard instead of power to see how that works. May not be as strong as my male but I'm going to test how well she stuns people.

    As for my recharge speed over half nova suggestion that's just personal feeling since I feel like you're really hurting your damage output by using that ability and as long as you play Vanguard well it won't matter too much.


    Thanks! One comment and a couple of questions.

    Comment: It looks like I forgot to put the 6 next to Fitness on the Asari. I definitely meant it to be there though.

    Question: I assume you use the Predator for long range when it's too dangerous to charge in?

    Question: Do you take a lot of damage when you Nova and lose all of your barrier? Radius + Recharge does the same amount of damage as Damage + Half, and I feel a lot safer having a few hundred points of Barrier left after I Nova.

    Question: How does this work on Gold?

    Question 1: Yeah, I use the Predator since it is lightweight, accurate at range, does good damage, and makes me not completely useless during the "hold the objectives" stuff. I also like it will the AP mod because it just takes down guardians without a problem.

    Question 2: I haven't tried area yet(most I just go Damage, Recharge because I always want DPS...good defense is a good offense and all that). If you find more success with Half Barrier you might as well keep it. As for how much damage I take, I would say it depends. 9 out of the 10 I won't be taking any damage as long as I make the right decision. But fuckups do happen so if you would rather have that insurance you can stick with half-barrier(will just take you longer to kill stuff).

    Question 3: I've only tried my Vanguard on Gold once because usually I only play with randoms and their skill levels tend to vary. I believe we were going against Reapers. And we managed to get to Wave 6 before we wiped. That being said I will say I had the best survivability out of every in our group and I only wiped after everyone else went down while trying to save everyone/solo.

    Dragkonias on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Neli wrote: »
    And in the ME1 and ME2 endings, you had the means to understand the possible consequences of the choices you made - in ME3 they're so confusing that you're not even sure what it is that you're doing

    Only
    Synthesis is confusing and it was the first time we got a third choice in an ending for a mass effect game. It was basically the "wild card" choice so of course it was going to be a little wild. The Child does say exactly what it will do as well...Problem isn't that the choice isn't outlined, the problem is the choice itself. It wasn't a satisfying choice.

    The other two endings, "control" and "destruction" are fairly damn clear to me, though certain things like having EDI walk out of Normandy during the Destroy ending and stuff really makes a mess of everything. :whistle:
    Distruction is a perfectly good renegade ending option. The Reapers are destroyed no matter the cost (Geth and EDI). The other two wander off into 'huh?' land. Control is too risky from a trope standpoint, plus TIM thought it was a good idea, so that is a huge strike against choosing it. And of course Synthesis is right out of left field.

    Funnily enough, the green ending isn't totally out of left field.
    Saren was the one who said that a mix of organic and synthetic was "the next step in our evolution" and that it was some kind of perfect form.

    Which is part of what contributes to it being an awful ending.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Tejs wrote: »
    Shen wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    So I'm trying to come up with a Vanguard build that can do something other than run around spamming Charge and Nova. That works great on Bronze, but starts to get sketchy on Silver, and I can only imagine the problems on Gold. I have two ideas at the moment:


    Human Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage, Shields)
    Nova 6 (Damage, Half Barrier, Pierce)
    Alliance Training (Power/Weight, Headshot, Weight)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Shuriken X (Extra Ammo / Heat Sink) - Once they fix Ultralight Materials, I'd probably go for a Locust instead
    Weight - Roughly +175%

    Strategy: Stick with the group and headshot enemies. If we get overrun, starting spamming Charge and Nova everywhere.


    Asari Vanguard
    Charge 6 (Area, Power Damage Shields)
    Stasis 6 (Damage, ????, Bubble)
    Lift Grenade 3
    Justicar 5 (Power/Weight, Headshot)
    Fitness (Shields, Shields, Shields)

    Mantis X (Damage / Piercing)
    Weight - Roughly +155%

    Strategy: As above, stick with the group and use Stasis. In case of getting overrun, spam Charge, Stasis, and Heavy Melee.


    Thoughts? I'll take weapon suggestions, but I'd prefer to stick with longer range weapons, so Snipers or Assault Rifles. I don't need close range weapons, because I have Charge and Nova/Heavy Melee.

    You'll find a heavy pistol will be much more effective than the Mantis, the Carnifex/Paladin in particular. I'd get Heavy Pistol weight for your Asari and drop the last rank of shields, which will leave you able to get 200% with all heavy pistols once they're max rank. I went with recharge speed on stasis because I charge a lot less with my asari.

    Honestly you might even be better off keeping Charge at Rank 3 and maxing nades, as you'll be focusing on range.

    Played as a regular gold human vanguard vs. Cerberus earlier; came last due to two phantom instagibs, but still managed a respectable score. Human vanguard doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, just don't charge across the map like an idiot :P

    I play my Asari Vanguard as an infiltrator mostly. Dont have any points in Biotic Charge, but Lift Grenades and Stasis are maxed out. I've got the N7 Valiant, which is super useful for headshotting Stasis'd guys. For the things that arent very stasis friendly, the Valiant hits pretty hard and I have the grenades to fall back on. Works out pretty well on Silver for me. You might not be the highest scorer, but you will for sure provide utility.

    Yeah when I play I have the goal of getting through all 10 waves in mind more than being the top scorer too. The Asari Vanguard's diversity really serves well to that end.

    The first few rounds of silver, I may charge a bit, but in general it turns into more of an escape tool than an attack tool. I also have the SHOOT THROUGH WALLS mod on both my shotty and pistol, so... yeah.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Neli wrote: »
    And in the ME1 and ME2 endings, you had the means to understand the possible consequences of the choices you made - in ME3 they're so confusing that you're not even sure what it is that you're doing

    Only
    Synthesis is confusing and it was the first time we got a third choice in an ending for a mass effect game. It was basically the "wild card" choice so of course it was going to be a little wild. The Child does say exactly what it will do as well...Problem isn't that the choice isn't outlined, the problem is the choice itself. It wasn't a satisfying choice.

    The other two endings, "control" and "destruction" are fairly damn clear to me, though certain things like having EDI walk out of Normandy during the Destroy ending and stuff really makes a mess of everything. :whistle:
    Distruction is a perfectly good renegade ending option. The Reapers are destroyed no matter the cost (Geth and EDI). The other two wander off into 'huh?' land. Control is too risky from a trope standpoint, plus TIM thought it was a good idea, so that is a huge strike against choosing it. And of course Synthesis is right out of left field.

    Funnily enough, the green ending isn't totally out of left field.
    Saren was the one who said that a mix of organic and synthetic was "the next step in our evolution" and that it was some kind of perfect form.

    Which is part of what contributes to it being an awful ending.
    Two of the endings are basically argued by the villains and are brushed off as madness by everybody, but the game then does a uturn almost immediately as says they are actually valid.

  • joshgotrojoshgotro Queen CityRegistered User regular
    Vanguard is for mopping up the little guys while the big boys get focus fired.

    At least in every game where a Vanguard isn't in need of Revive every other 15 seconds.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Well one thing I would be curious to see, is if (very improbably) Bioware came out and said, "You know what? The writing of that ending was completely weak. I don't know what we were thinking. We're going to take a few months just to write a stellar ending and then we'll release it as free DLC. If you like the original ending, we won't make it a forced update, so you only get the alternate ending if you want it." I wonder how many people among those who 'like' the ending would actually not download that ending.

    I would love to see it happen--but given even the vague statements they've made publicly along with what Juc has said about how difficult it is to futz with things like the ending I would put it at lottery odds...

    Oh yeah, that is certainly not happening. I just meant, if it were possible, would the smug gaming critics actually refuse to play it? Of ir they played it, and it was better than the original, would they refuse to aknowledge it as better? "Well I suppose that's more satisfying or whatever, but it's so predictable! Nothing predictable is good."

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Actually what's the standard spread for human Engies? Should I bother with Fitness at all?

    I max everything but fitness. 50% more incinerate damage, 100% more damage on shields and barriers from overload. I basically focus on stripping shields and barriers while headshotting with carnifex.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Also, another tip for Vanguard. I feel that a lot of people tend to get stuck on the "big" targets.

    Really, just leave the big stuff to your teammates while you clean up the little guys and keep them off the rest of your team. I only bother helping with the big guys when I've got nothing better to do.

    Also, try to stay generally close to your teammates and don't run off too far(unless you don't really care if you die that round then just go nuts).

    That's how I generally vanguard.

    Dragkonias on
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