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Getting a degree in engineering.
XX55XX
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Currently, I am majoring in accounting as a junior. Unfortunately, I am having a difficult time landing an internship for this summer. This has given me an idea: Get a degree in engineering.
I talked with my parents recently about this, and they have been supportive. I am considering getting a master of engineering degree through Boston University's LEAP program.
My plan is to take Physics I and Calculus I in the fall semester of senior year, and then take Physics II and Calculus II in the spring of my senior year, in addition to other remaining course requirements needed for an accounting degree (there aren't too many left, but I hope to take a few summer courses to get them out of the way).
Then, I will take the GREs and apply for the LEAP program from there. Will likely cost a pretty penny, but my parents said that they will help me furnish the $50,000 to $60,000 needed for the degree. Right now, I am brushing up on my Calculus with the help of a couple of self-help books. I am also in contact with the LEAP program administrator at BU, and she thinks this is a good way for me to get into the program.
I've always received good grades in math and generally get the stuff (had an A- in Calculus I in my freshman year), but physics worries me a little, since I took a more basic physics class (alegbra based) in my freshman year and got a C+ in it despite studying my ass off.
Advice?
I talked with my parents recently about this, and they have been supportive. I am considering getting a master of engineering degree through Boston University's LEAP program.
My plan is to take Physics I and Calculus I in the fall semester of senior year, and then take Physics II and Calculus II in the spring of my senior year, in addition to other remaining course requirements needed for an accounting degree (there aren't too many left, but I hope to take a few summer courses to get them out of the way).
Then, I will take the GREs and apply for the LEAP program from there. Will likely cost a pretty penny, but my parents said that they will help me furnish the $50,000 to $60,000 needed for the degree. Right now, I am brushing up on my Calculus with the help of a couple of self-help books. I am also in contact with the LEAP program administrator at BU, and she thinks this is a good way for me to get into the program.
I've always received good grades in math and generally get the stuff (had an A- in Calculus I in my freshman year), but physics worries me a little, since I took a more basic physics class (alegbra based) in my freshman year and got a C+ in it despite studying my ass off.
Advice?
XX55XX on
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What do you think Engineering do on a daily basis?
This is a very important question. As an accountant, you can potentially earn more money then an Engineer. Chances are you'll be in the same sort of 'Spreadsheet Hell' whether or not you're an Engineer or Accountant.
Basically, are you sure you want to be an Engineer?
There's a lot of classes you'll need to take. Diff. EQ, Statics, Thermodynamic, Fluids, Heat Transfer, and many more. All those classes depends on each other, so you really can't skip any of them. I'm not exactly sure if you can get accepted to an Engineering master program without a bachelors in Engineering, so you'll probably have to get another bachelors.
And to echo the above posters, if you don't know what type engineering sounds interesting to you and also realize that even recent engineering grads are having trouble being employed, this is probably a poor choice.
I am aware that most Master's programs in engineering require a Bachelor's in engineering first. But BU does have a special program for those who haven't had any engineering. Hence, the link.
I am mostly interested in electrical engineering (I recall those problems being the only problems I enjoyed doing in my high school physics class).
I don't know. I am suffering from a lot of cognitive dissonance here. I feel as if I majored in the wrong thing and screwed myself over in terms of career prospects.
If you want to do it and you don't have any serious financial concerns, then I guess you should go for it. By the time you finish, economic conditions will likely be different than they are today, so it's hard for us to tell you anything on that front.
On the one hand, if you truly have a passion for engineering, it will be a great transition for you. On the other hand, if you're just doing it "because it was sort of fun" you're in a world of trouble. Most good engineers I know/have met basically loved all the classes that helped them understand more about engineering and can't shut the engineer part of their heads off. This means you will not be competitive as just a dabbler.
As far as the rest goes - You're giving up on all accounting because of internships? That seems somewhat silly. If you do enjoy it, find out why you weren't hired if you can, and/or take a hard look at your qualifications. Grad school is not a good panic response. Also, try doing some Make-style engineering projects on your own (simpler ones) and see if you enjoy doing that on its own. If not, don't even think about engineering.
This highlights just how specious the "wrong major" argument is. You majored in Accounting, which, for all intents and purposes is a very employable degree, but now because you haven't been handed an internship it is suddenly the degree's fault. This is the same argument heard by English majors, Biology majors, Communication majors, even different engineers all lament not getting that "other" engineering specialization.
It's a stupid argument. Any degree is employable, but a degree is nothing but a piece of paper, one thousands of other people are getting at the exact same time. You've already highlighted why you aren't getting picked up. You have a lack of experience. You are trying to gain this experience through an internship, which is a vital thing to do, but what did you do BEFORE this point? College has a plethora of experience gathering opportunities. Have you ever been a financial officer for a club or organization? Have you volunteered for a non-profit and helped out their financial person? Have you planned an event or program that had to adhere to strict budgeting guidelines or rules? These are things that are easy to do in college, but most people never do them, then are surprised when they get slapped with the no-experience card. It's not that you have no experience that turns employers off, it's that you never bothered to try and get any.
Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but it is the truth. And now consider this, you're about to enter an intensive masters program for engineering, after which you will graduate with a Masters in Engineering and once again no experience. I wonder what that thread will look like.
If you go off a flyer in the wall, you could get hired by a scumbag. That's how it happened to me. I got hired by someone who Career Services kicked out, and was trying to circumvent them.
But i stopped dreaming about that and decided to actively help my accounting prospects. I started volunteering to get experience. Accounting firms drool over lots of volunteer experience. I got a job in an office in the records department. After that i applied to every single accounting position. I was able to get one for fall and decided to skip one semester in order to get some experience. Now i have 1 semester left after this one and two offers for summer employment. I may be graduating one semester late but its opened alot of doors for me.
Dont just look for summer opportunities look for stuff that is during the year where you can take on semester off to work. The thing about summer positions is everyone wants one, you compete with every single accoutning student in your area. If you look for a position say from september to december and january to april your competition is much less fierce.
Even when i go into interviews with the big four firms they all say "dont get too discouraged if you dont receive a summer position, we dont hire many students during the summer, your chances of getting a job are much better when applying for full time employment when you graduate".
As someone who hires engineers-- a recent grad with no work experience, no research/work study, no extracurriculars, no professional associations, no project teams, etc., even if they had a 4.0 in their BS or MS program I still wouldn't hire them.
These days it takes more than just a degree to get hired, you need to have put in effort beyond just your education to demonstrate that you're capable of being a productive member of a team.
Yes, but their accelerated course list is... sparse. And that's being generous. Let's look at their course list:
CAS MA 124 Calculus II
CAS MA 225 Multivariate Calculus
CAS MA 226 Differential Equations
ENG EC 381 Probability Theory in Electrical and Computer Engineering
CAS PY 211 Physics I
ENG EK 307 Electric Circuit Theory
ENG EC 401 Signals and Systems
ENG EC 410 Introduction to Electronics
Track Courses - select one track (a) through (e):
Bioelectric - Select three of the following:
CAS PY 212 Physics II
CAS PY 313 Elementary Modern Physics
ENG EC 311 Introduction to Logic Design
ENG EC 402 or BE 402 Control Systems
ENG EC 412 Analog Electronics
ENG EC 416 Introduction to Digital Signal Processing
Computer
ENG EC 311 Introduction to Logic Design
ENG EC 413 Computer Organization
ENG EC 450 Microprocessors
Electromagnetics - Select three of the following:
CAS PY 212 Physics II
ENG EC 455 Electromagnetic Systems I
ENG EC 456 Electromagnetic Systems II
ENG EC 470 Space Sensors
Electronics
CAS PY 212 Physics II
CAS PY 313 Elementary Modern Physics
ENG EC 471 Physics of Semiconductor Devices
Information Systems
ENG EC 402 Control Systems
ENG EC 415 Communication Systems
ENG EC 416 Introduction to Digital Signal Processing
The first half is just math: calculus, linear algebra & MATLAB; pretty standard stuff
PY211 - this is going to be your basic pre-eng physics course: electriciy/magnetism, Newtonian notion, etc
EK307 - basic circuit analysis: KVL, KCL. What is power. Resistance. Node-voltage; mesh-current
EC401 - fourier, laplace & z transform. I'm not sure they'll have time to do countinuous & discrete
EC410 - Non-linear devices. Diodes. Transistors. Opamps. Logic gates apparently too
You're missing: power, circuits involving non-resistive elements (not even RC? No impedance? No Euler's identity? No complex numbers?), in-depth signal analyasis (one course is not enough for both continuous & DT fourier you're either going to skimp on content, theory or applications), control circuits, electromagnetics, motors, comms theory, signal processing (filters, etc), in-depth discrete logic
The sub-specialty you pick can cover some of the above deficiencies, but again you need to know specifically what you want to work with.
I think I might drop the whole engineering thing (since it's very clear that my prospects would not necessarily improve, and it might not be worth the money/brain power required).
I did have an interview with E&Y for a summer position in IT audit (I am also an MIS major), but I'm not optimistic.
When people go to school they expect opportunities to be handed to them by virtue of all the work they're doing, because we can be honest, being a student is a lot of work. Not easy stuff. However, that being said, you gotta do more, precisely because nobody else is.
It's the extracurriculars, experience you invent and then give to yourself, that will truly make you shine to someone who is hiring. In computer science, that means programming on open source stuff or doing side projects, stuff like that.
In accounting, I think someone mentioned being a financial officer for a club or other organization? Look for ways to practice, learn, or improve your skills outside of class.
In addition, my summers working construction didn't exactly hurt me either.
I do. I run a mail-order business (through Amazon Marketplace and Ebay) and I maintain my own books and records. I have had that on my resume for a while.
Reading through some recent articles, I've come to believe that even if I grind it out in engineering, I will not necessarily be better off, given the large number of unemployed engineering graduates I read about. These are extraordinary times for everyone.
Also - my buddy is an accounting manager, and the place to look right now is midsize firms, as they've seen extraordinary growth in the past 5-10 years.
Completely disagree with this. Absolutely don't do something that makes you miserable, but forget about this enjoyment stuff. No one pays you because you want to be there.
I had the same problems in my field that the poster did. I know that I, like many other people, were force fed a lot of BS regarding job prospects after getting a degree. It's all a load of BS. Stop thinking "I have a degree in in XYZ, that should get me a job in XYZ", it won't. What you need to think is "I have a degree in XYZ, so does everyone else I am competing against, how can I get ahead of the other applicants?" A degree doesn't make you qualified for a job, it makes you just another applicant. Why would anyone hire the guy with no experience, no certifications, or no extracurricular when they can hire someone with all 3 for the same amount?
The reality is you need to do more to get a job, even an internship. Get more free experience, get certifications if you can, get better letters of recommendation, and apply continuously. It's a huge numbers game and you have to be lucky in addition to being good. You get lucky by applying to every job opening you can find, and I don't mean the ones on major job boards everyone is applying for. Try to find internships that have fewer applicants, that will obviously increase your chances as well, maybe they only advertise in the local paper/website, maybe you can find out through word of mouth.
My overall point is everyone else has the same credentials you do, so why would anyone choose you for a job/internship? You don't get jobs by meeting all the job requirements, you get jobs by being the best applicant for the job.
If you enjoy what you do for a living, you'll never work a day in your life, because it won't feel like work. You are paid to produce something that society finds meaningful in some way, whether physical, mental or social. If you find something you enjoy producing, that people are willing to pay you for, you've "won" the game. To tell people they must forget about enjoying the things they do is downright criminal. You will not ALWAYS enjoy your job, but if you find something interesting and fun every day or every few days, you'll have a happy working life. For my father, architecture gives him this feeling (to this day he'd probably work 70+ hours a week if he had the work, and he's almost 70 years old). I enjoy different things.
I'd much rather make 50k doing something I loved than 100k doing something I hated or even 75k doing something I didn't really care about. People don't pay you to suffer, people pay you for production.
EDIT: Also, all my successful Accountant friends are the ones who loved working through accounting problems and concepts. All the ones who hated it are doing other things.
I'd rather I love my job than like it, but I'd rather be able to have good medical insurance and financial security than have a job I love.
P.S. - Not loving your job is not the same thing as hating it. Doing a job you hate will cause you to go crazy and breakdown, that's not what I'm talking about. I'd only work a job I hate if I had people depending on me.
That doesn't mean you can't look for something you love to do that gives you security. It's only bad advice if the people taking the advice are 100% naive or idiots. Everyone understands there's balance, and that sometimes it takes time to get to that job you REALLY want. You just sound completely jaded on everything.
In the meantime, I'm also trying to get another part-time job should things go south. Always can use the additional cash.
Not to say that you need to have some sort of romantic love affair with your profession, but doing something you like definitely helps.
Also note that right now is really bad for a lot of accounting firms that do personal and business side accounting. If you follow up in May, they may be more responsive.