[Shadowrun 4e] Help a newbie
feeddannow
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Registered User regular
Ok, help a guy out. My friends have decided to start up a Shadowrun 4e game. And C-gen starts this Sunday. I am coming into the game as a pretty big newbie to the system, so I am here to come to grips with a few of the game mechanics and concepts. Maybe I can turn this into a general primer help-a-newbie thing for Shadowrun in general in the process of helping myself. Feel free to chime in, omae!
Here go my questions, quandries, and whatnots:
1) I am thinking about playing either a hacker or a rigger. But I am still hazy on the actual costs of some of the gear - the book has gear listings in some places and the cost for upgrading them in some other foreign location, hidden beneath three layers of stealthed protocols or something.
COST Question 1: Can someone tell me where to find the cost for upgrading a commlink? I see stock commlinks listed and the example character of a hacker has a commlink that is upgraded so I am assuming that there must be a formula for calculating that cost.
COST Question 2: When you purchase a program (ex: Exploit, Black Hammer, etc.) do you have it on all of your commlinks - like installing your copy of MS Word on several computers? Or do you have to pay for them separately?
COST Question 3: I like the idea of being a rigger - perhaps driving the runners around in my pimp-wagon, or jumping into killer robot-dogs-with-freaking-lasers-on-their-heads. When you buy Autosofts - do you need to purchase them separately for each Drone/Vehicle? I imagine having the autosofts loaded into my commlink and sharing them when I jump-into the drone or vehicle in question.
ATTRIBUTES Question 1: Ok, so I want to be this badass rigger - gear is expensive, I need a lot of skills, I've lopped off my limbs and replaced them with shiney bits of chrome - and I am nearly out of points for attributes - are they important at all, really? I mean, when you are jumped into a drone or car, you use the device's auto-softs for your attribute... so why would I need that huge Logic or Intuition score anyway? I could just roll up all 2's or 3's on my attributes and spend all my BP on skills and whores. But somehow I feel like that would be a mistake - is it?
MISCELLANY: If you buy the street-level lifestyle, but you have pimped out your van to have High-Lifestyle amenities, can you live in your car and count yourself as living the high life?
EDIT:
I'm pretty sure I want to play a rigger at this point - my concept is a guy that also pulls minor duty as the group's off-face... driving around the mobile party-van which is part urban-party-platform and part assault-vehicle. Like a bar-on-wheels, but with turrets and armor. I am actually thinking about using the Bus from Arsenal and sinking large amounts of cash into it. So what if it doesn't outrun anything... its a Party Bus! Thoughts? Suggestions?
I am sure that more and more questions will come to me, and I hope I can get the help I so desperately need before I become a greasy red smear on the streets of Seattle.
Here go my questions, quandries, and whatnots:
1) I am thinking about playing either a hacker or a rigger. But I am still hazy on the actual costs of some of the gear - the book has gear listings in some places and the cost for upgrading them in some other foreign location, hidden beneath three layers of stealthed protocols or something.
COST Question 1: Can someone tell me where to find the cost for upgrading a commlink? I see stock commlinks listed and the example character of a hacker has a commlink that is upgraded so I am assuming that there must be a formula for calculating that cost.
COST Question 2: When you purchase a program (ex: Exploit, Black Hammer, etc.) do you have it on all of your commlinks - like installing your copy of MS Word on several computers? Or do you have to pay for them separately?
COST Question 3: I like the idea of being a rigger - perhaps driving the runners around in my pimp-wagon, or jumping into killer robot-dogs-with-freaking-lasers-on-their-heads. When you buy Autosofts - do you need to purchase them separately for each Drone/Vehicle? I imagine having the autosofts loaded into my commlink and sharing them when I jump-into the drone or vehicle in question.
ATTRIBUTES Question 1: Ok, so I want to be this badass rigger - gear is expensive, I need a lot of skills, I've lopped off my limbs and replaced them with shiney bits of chrome - and I am nearly out of points for attributes - are they important at all, really? I mean, when you are jumped into a drone or car, you use the device's auto-softs for your attribute... so why would I need that huge Logic or Intuition score anyway? I could just roll up all 2's or 3's on my attributes and spend all my BP on skills and whores. But somehow I feel like that would be a mistake - is it?
MISCELLANY: If you buy the street-level lifestyle, but you have pimped out your van to have High-Lifestyle amenities, can you live in your car and count yourself as living the high life?
EDIT:
I'm pretty sure I want to play a rigger at this point - my concept is a guy that also pulls minor duty as the group's off-face... driving around the mobile party-van which is part urban-party-platform and part assault-vehicle. Like a bar-on-wheels, but with turrets and armor. I am actually thinking about using the Bus from Arsenal and sinking large amounts of cash into it. So what if it doesn't outrun anything... its a Party Bus! Thoughts? Suggestions?
I am sure that more and more questions will come to me, and I hope I can get the help I so desperately need before I become a greasy red smear on the streets of Seattle.
feeddannow on
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First off, I had no trouble combining Hacker and Rigger. Being a hacker just means spending points on couple hacking skills and buying the software, and being a rigger means buying a couple rigger skills and buying the software (and some drones). Both roles are pretty easy to combine with other characters, and seem to work very nicely together as well.
Cost #1: In the anniversary version, the costs to upgrade a commlink's hardware (signal and response) is on page 222. Upgrading the software (firewall and system) is on page 330 under "matrix programs".
Cost #2: This is a bit tricky. I hear the matrix-specific book has rules for cracking the "copyright protection" on programs, allowing you to share them between all your devices at the cost of them not being able to receive automatic updates (and thus slowly deteriorating over time). As far as I know, in the core rules you need to buy each program separately for each thing you want to use it on. I'd ask your GM how he wants to deal with it.
Cost #3: Autosofts are just specialized programs I believe, so I think the same answer as Cost #2 applies.
Attribute Question: As long as you are controlling a drone while jumped-in, it seems like your attributes indeed don't really matter. If you are okay with being not as good at remote-controlling and doing other things, I guess you could certainly dump your attributes for more points!
Miscellaneous Question: I don't think the High Amenities for a vehicle directly translates into a High Lifestyle. Even though the Amenities are named after lifestyles I don't think they are meant to be a replacement for one, just an indication of what level of comfort the vehicle will provide.
ie. A High Amenities vehicle will have comfortable leather seats, hot chocolate machine up front, video screens in the back of every seat, and so on. It's a vehicle suitable for someone used to the High Lifestyle, but living in the car alone wouldn't be like having a huge apartment with all the trimmings or similar that High Lifestyle implies.
As I mentioned at the start, I've made exactly one character for Shadowrun, and I've played him for exactly one session. My answers are entirely from me being forced to go find this shit out myself by combing the shadowrun faqs and spending hours looking through the books and googling forums for info, not from experience.
If someone else has more experience with this junk, I'd go with their answer over mine, and if you can get an answer from whoever is going to be running the game, absolutely go with theirs over mine!
And for your Party Bus idea, I'd say go for it. If you're new to Shadowrun, hopefully the GM will either a.) Let you know you messed up before you commit to it, or b.) Will not instantly kill you, blow up all your stuff, and murder all your friends for a "did something dumb" first offense in a system you aren't even familiar with yet.
That may be wishful thinking though.
Marshmallow is correct, if you want to have lots of copies of things without paying for them you can do it but will need to spend some downtime per month patching, I've made a few Shadowrun hackers and it's easy even in the most action packed game if you can say that 8 hours is a "day" of work and grab a Sleep Regulator or one of the various equivalents, "while the team sleeps, I code" is iconic as hell too!
Also you should note the availability restrictions on a lot of this stuff, I know it caught me by surprise that you can just buy Rating 6 software (12R) but not the self-built commlink needed to run them.
Anyway, I strongly recommend some points in Logic and the Hardware and Software skills. Building your own gear and writing your own programs is the only realistic way to advance your abilities. The first thing I do with a Shadowrun Hacker is, when we have the month or so of in game downtime, write my own Rating 10+ Stealth program. You either need to add programming options to let it run on a R6 System or Hardware that up.
Hardware costs money but writing your own code doesn't. Again not only incredibly practical to have a Rating 12 Exploit and Stealth program loaded, but it fits the Hacker character type so well to write your own hacking tools rather than using some off the shelf script kiddie crap.
You may want to look into Agents/Pilots, too, since they can do some crazy tricks, but that stuff is poorly written so probably a bad idea for a newbie to check out.
Lastly: Look into playing a Technomancer, my last Shadowrun GM flat out veto'd them but if you plan to focus on the Matrix and drones while neglecting physical stats, IMO it looks very rewarding and cool. The normal hacker seems to scream "tack me on to something else", and I've certainly never played a pure hacker, a Mage/Hacker and Gun Bunny/Hacker that both were fully competent at both roles. Essentially you lose 1-2 dice from each side, but the difference between 18 dice and 20 dice versus opening up a whole other facet of the game always seemed worth it to me.
Edit: And when I say Hacker I include Rigger by assumption, since really they're the same thing build wise, it's just a matter of whether you actually have drones around or not. And if you have the money you should because they're neat
Re: Technomancers and Technomancery, I think the GM has said that he would kill any and all Technomancers in the prologue. The phrase "Chunky Salsa" was used. I think a Technomancer touched him when he was an altar-boy. Or something.
I think I am gonna try to go Rigger/Face in a weirdly fun mash-up. The idea behind it being that I drive around this ridiculously souped up Bus that is rigged out to be a mobile base of operations / boozing-platform (Because with Pilot programs you don't have to worry about designated drivers.) So I am focusing a lot on my skills and on my Bus expenditures, everything else mostly taking a backseat (in the bus, oddly enough). Pure hacker just didnt seem very exciting to me. And I think the idea of a loveable gear-head is interesting, and a little contrasted to the norm of "That lone greasemonkey that everyone shuns and only digs out when the car breaks down".
Putting the party bus together is turning out to be an interesting/exciting/frustrating experience. So here are some newbie concerns/questions for you experts out there!
1) I need more SLOTS!
So I have decided to go with the old Conestoga Vista Bus as my base vehicle for its prestigious 20 Body rating and hence 20 slots of justice (yeah, I know that the Step Van with the Body 16 gets a bonus of 4 slots to become 20 slots... but ... but... its not a BUS!) Is there any way to squeeze out more slots with personal modification to the bus? (Make it a double decker? We could go British, baby! yah!)
2) Armor vs. Personal Armor vs. Passenger Armor?
I get that the Armor rating (and upgrade) protects the vehicle from attacks directed at it. Doesn't this armor also protect the passengers? Or does only Personal Armor (the car mod) protect the passengers? And how is this different from Passenger Armor? Does passenger protection only protect against crashes? How about ramming? I r confused!
3) Upgrading aspects of a vehicle (System, Response, Firewall, Pilot, Signal...)
So you can install a pilot in a vehicle, I get that. But if someone wants to hack into and take over my precious party bus, I want protection! Can I install a firewall onto the Bus? If so, do I need to install System and Response as well? This leads into my next question...
4) Are autosofts installed on a drone or a vehicle limitted by the vehicle's system? And if so... what's the default system of a vehicle? Can you upgrade system? TELL ME!
Again, thanks so much for your help so far! Keep up the good work!
You can upgrade them and install things in them like normal, an Agent loaded to the teeth for cybercombat would make a great IC defender, or hell just buy some IC, it's listed in Unwired.
But the best way to make your bus hackproof? Turn the wireless off.
With regards to armor, the vehicle combat rules explain it I think, I don't recall the distinctions off hand, and more upgrade slots are 100% GM fiat territory I think.
1.) Can't find any way to improve a vehicle's slots, but there's nothing but money, time, and GM approval stopping you from adding more stuff than the vehicle technically has slots.
Not sure how feasible that is, but it's an option!
2.) Passenger protection seems to clearly work on any sort of "vehicular accident". I would wager this includes crashes, collisions, and aggressive jostling so if the damage would be coming from some sort of rapid deceleration/acceleration, flipping, spinning, or other generally unhealthy vehicle movement rather than, say, a missile or bullets then the protection would count.
For the Armor vs. Personal Armor, I think the distinction is what the attacker is trying to target. Vehicle armor heavily favors protecting the vehicle's critical gear and functions so if someone is attempting to blow up or disable the vehicle, they target the Vehicle's armor. If they are trying to shoot specifically through the windshield or doors to injure or kill the inhabitants, then you want Personal Armor. Personal Armor should also work even if the person is shooting at you through an entirely open door of the vehicle since personal armor is part of the interior of the vehicle (seats and so on) rather than built into the door itself.
3.) Easy! Exactly the same as upgrading a commlink! You use the Commlink Hardware upgrade chart for Signal and Response, and buy programs to upgrade Firewall. System upgrades aren't needed because instead of a System, a vehicle has a Pilot rating.
Like any other device, Drones begin with a Firewall, Response, and Signal of those equal to its device rating, which is usually 3 for drones, and 4 for "Military" drones. According to the FAQ, "any drone that comes equipped with weapon mounts should be considered a security device, and given a Device rating of 4".
I ended up installing a mod from Arsenal called "Manual Control Override: Drive-by-Wire" to foil hacking attempts. It's basically a switch or button that lets you manually shut down all wireless communication in the vehicle and forces it to be drived "by wire". That is, with someone inside the vehicle actually manipulating the controls.
4.) An autosoft is actually limited by the Pilot rating (exact same thing as the System, really. Different word, same cost and effect). So to find out what the highest rating of program or autosoft you can load into a drone is, you just use the Pilot rating listed right there in its stat block. Upgrading a Pilot system is exactly the same as upgrading any other sort of program. Just pay the money (or program yourself) a System of a higher rating and load it into that Drone as a Pilot program. Tada!
Edit: Remember that a Pilot program is also a program. Since any program installed will be limited by tge Drone's Response, you'll need to upgrade that as well if you want a Pilot higher than 3 or 4 (and thus be able to install autosofts higher than 3 or 4).
Also, while we are talking about drones. Gecko tips are possibly my favorite upgrade, especially for the Doberman drone. Quadruped, weapons platform robots that can walk on walls and ceilings. The possibilities are endless!
I like the idea of a gecko-tipped Doberman drone, might have to make that my primary go-getter bot. I also gave it the "Pimped Out" modification, because there's nothing better than a chromed-up Dobie-bot with a diamond-studded spiked collar and a superious Bark-Box sound system. I mean, if he's going to guard my Party Bus, he's gotta be styling. Right? Right.
I am a little fuzzy still on Agents. They seem like programs... so I would load the Agent program INTO the Party bus, right? And it would count as one of the active programs running on the bus (Which could slow it down if it exceeds a certain amount based on the System rating of the Bus, right?) But Agents can also be loaded up with programs... so it's nested? Am I reading this right?
Why not load Agents into every Drone I have to protect them against enemy hackering? I feel like there might be a good reason that people dont just do that. Perhaps I am missing something?
I'm certain I've seen characters whose Drones have ECCM programs loaded into them so that they can protect themselves against jamming attempts if the Rigger is too busy to help 'em out.
After a few seconds of searching, I got this:
So it looks like you don't even need to bother loading an Agent, the "Pilot" already acts like one so all you have to do is give it some programs and give it instructions to use em.
Also, if you want a cheap way to pimp out your doberman a little more, Personality Software for a drone is a measly 100¥
My two doberman drones are Roscoe and Desoto.
The personality software is a good idea, I will definitely be slapping that on the Dobie.
We get into the nitty gritty official character generation this Sunday, I will keep you all posted on how that turns out - maybe I can get my fine tuning done on ye olde public bulletin board as a learning experience for everyone!
If I may ask, why did you chrome up your character as a hacker? For story purposes? Are you installing an internal commlink in the capacity slots? full body chrome is extremely expensive.
Also, my answer to people who like dump stats is usually a mage.
My last hacker was like this, Gun Bunny + Hacker, you can drop physical stats completely since, well, cyber arms + legs, then load up on cyberarmor for unused slots and you'll be incredibly good at your choice method of doing physical damage + have a bunch of free physical boxes + a ton of armor that stacks with everything.
So the tl;dr answer is, hacking off one limb is the quick and easy way to stay relevant in the meat, replacing all of them is inefficient but effective and awesome, the best answer lies in the middle.
Also just to toss it out there an option, you may want to try being an Adept. You can go ahead and cyber up some, so don't be worried about that, but a few points of Improved Skill (technical skills are very cheap to improve) and some of the Adept Face stuff would probably make you the best Hacker/Face possible.
My love of cybernetics has always been a strong one, even from the days where I was playing RIFTS at my junior high all those decades ago. And when I played Cyberpunk 2020 (wow, to remember when 2020 was like SO THE FUTURE!) I think I went with some implants that gave me an additional initiative pass, and the sleep regulator, so I can operate as long or longer than my drones can, and utility stuff - like the commlink implanted and the smartlink for a gun.
But Adept might bare looking into...
1) Somebody clarify something for me about combat turns, action phases, and initiative passes? Specifically, one of our players is a troll who is hot-wired for reflexes and totes around a light machine gun on some runs. He gets 3 initiative passes.
The book says that
Does that make his initiative passes like mini-nested-combat-turns? You get 1 free action and 2 simple actions OR 1 free action and 1 complex action per combat turn. Would that mean he would get a total of 3 Frees and up to 6 simples or 3 complexes (or some permutation of them)? If so... does that mean that he could fire off 6 short bursts from his LMG in a single combat turn? (assuming there's enough ammo).
If so, how do you deal with recoil - since recoil only tells you how to modify for the first and second burts in a combat round?
Would the recoil modifiers reset between initiative passes?
2)Sometimes the book mentions things like:
This is confusing because the combat turn is divided into initiative passes... but I am not quite sure by the meaning of "action phase". Do they mean Pass or Turn? Or is that something different?
And Suppressing fire takes a complex action and lasts until the character's next "Action Phase" ... his next pass? next combat turn?
In theory the troll could lay down 3 different fields of suppressive fire (eating 60 bullets in the process).
As always, thanks for you help! I am sure I will have more questions soon!