all i remember is that in grade school we usually had our field day on may day and they did those may pole things
It's a celebration of labor, and those who fucking work for a living.
It's not something Texas respects in the least, so I understand why you wouldn't have heard of it.
not recognizing the value of hard work seems like a stereotype about city slicking new yorkers in their suits, scoffing at those colored bell hops
i thought country ass hicks edified 'honest work' and poked fun at smahties
Like most things when it comes to country-ass hicks, it's something they talk about edifying (not that they know what that word means), while in reality they strip every worker protection they possibly can, and let the "free market" rape anyone trying to draw a salary in anything other than financial services straight up the ass.
Because they're disingenuous assholes.
you never cease to amaze me
I know; I'm pretty insightful. :bz
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Similarly, high school was nothing but sleep/read fantasy books time with small breaks to get 99 percentiles on my standardized tests and to stare at hot girls asses while never asking them out.
Like, I definitely agree that academic institutions have fucked up their business model, but I see two problems with this in most of the discourse about it
One- the blame always gets thrown on the feet of administrators, and while they do make disproportionately more than educators and other employees, it seems to be accepted that most of the tuition inflation is a result of decreasing amounts of federal and public funding for universities. The university I just left saw a 40% tuition increase after a 30% decrease in state allocations to their budget.
Universities are hurting, bad, and while they may be making poor financial decisions, the solution to that isn't to cut them off of public funds, because that just makes the problem worse in the realm of tuition inflation.
What they should've done is cut their expenses by 30%, not increased tuition. I'm no economist, but I'd bet the majority of that increase will be covered in grants and loans. To me that says they saw a huge drop in revenue and instead of slashing overhead they knew they had a captive market that will buy whatever they sell so they just cranked up the price and offloaded their pain to customers who can't demand a refund if they get nothing of tangible value for their purchase.
very business-like, though, you gotta admit
I mean, if you had a captive market as a business, why wouldn't you do exactly this
Yeah, you're pretty correct there. It's unsustainable though... eventually you have somebody try to undercut your business. In this sector it's for-profit schools.
I wasn't the least bit surprised to see government begin to go after for-profit institutions for exactly the same problems traditional institutions have, with those very same institutions cheering from the sidelines.
What for-profit universities do is fleece people who have no idea how education works or should cost, for all their money. Pretty happy to see them get sued into oblivion in the next few years.
That describes the traditional university system just as well. I'd like to see all post-secondary education held to the same standards, and I'd be pretty happy to see a couple of universities sued into oblivion as well.
What portions or departments are you talking about? I'm curious.
It varies from institution to institution but heck, you even see blatant misrepresentation in graduate-level law programs. Practically every university will charge you more for your freshman core requirements than an associated community college, and they'll accept the CC's credits. When you agree that a far cheaper set of coursework is 100% equivalent to your more expensive offering, yet you still go to great lengths to convince students you're completely justified charging more and they believe you, that is some A-level fleecing.
If the only thing they were doing is selling you credits this might be the case
It isn't
Community colleges, are, by and large, terrible
They do try, and there are exceptions (almost always in the form of specific professors or departments) but there is a gulf between even the worst state schools and CCs in quality of education, even and perhaps especially at the survey level
What does it matter, if you're able to tackle the later coursework? A terrible Comp 1 class is equal to a fantastic, amazing Comp 1 class both in terms of the degree requirements to buy your credentials, and to your ability to succeed in meeting the rest of the requirements.
There's no reason Comp 1 from a university should cost you $1000 but only cost $125 at the community college.
False. Location is going to play a big role in all of this. Big Universities are either in cities, or at the center of college towns. Community colleges can exist anywhere, but usually don't require the same amount of capital to run. At the very base level, there's real estate. Then account for cost of living. Then account for having to pay people enough to attract talent.
Arguing that schools should be run more like a business is only going to escalate that problem, as market prices vary from place to place on pretty much anything.
Let's be more concrete then. University of Texas at Austin's freshman year costs ~$9000 in state not counting books and housing. The university owns the land through a grant enshrined in the Texas Constitution. A freshman taking a standard load is paying ~$1800 per course, about $600/credit hour. Let's be super generous and put 50% of that toward non-salary expenses of running the college... so we're talking ~$900 for Freshman Composition 101.
Austin Community College is 6 blocks away from the UT Campus and offers Composition 101 for $125. Do you really think UT's offering is 700% better?
I don't think it works like this.
Which part is wrong?
That you can compare like courses from two different universities, look at the costs and expenses of a university, and then make a judgement about the course.
Or, the whole thing.
I think you missed my larger point - the best Freshman comp 101 course in the history of everything is still nothing more than a basic set of coursework you need to check off on your list of requirements, and the education you got in the class won't have any bearing on whether or not you succeed in getting your degree. There isn't any way that course can have that much more value because it was taught at the university, and the university agrees! I know they do, because they allow students to substitute the CC credits.
So why is it 700% more expensive to get those credits at university?
21st what you need to do is punch Anxiety in the face with a crippling addiction to prescription drugs.
i'm on meds, they help, but i still feel a lot of stress, which makes no sense, i don't have a job, i don't have school work, i have nothing and yet i feel stressed out about everything.
Sigh. i just get bigger and bigger doses every time i see my psychiatrist... but it's slow, progress is real slow.
I thought starting a project would help, but now my card game is causing me some stress. Sigh. i can't win 'em all, i guess.
you know you can unload on me in Google chat anytime you want right? Dude. I may make jokes you don't always find funny but I know crippling anxiety. I dropped out of high school in 10th grade because I went to an innercity school and feared for my life. I became a shut-in My mom had a nervous breakdown when I was 17. I took it hard and became even more afraid of the outside world. I had so much anxiety I would hide my mom's car keys before I went to sleep so she wouldn't do anything crazy while I was out. I basically gave up on visiting my dad because that would mean leaving the house and my mom. I was FUCKED UP, son. And emotionally crippled, and socially stunted. It's why sometimes it's easy to be like, There's no way Ludious is 29 years old. Because in some ways I'M FUCKING NOT. So
I understand man. I have been down that dark and lonely road.
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
A reason to get up in the morning and do things has improved my life immensely. You sound very directionless, 21st. It's important to find a purpose even if it is just owning a pet. My cats probably saved my life at one point. So don't beat yourself up about being stressed when you have nothing going on.
Like, I definitely agree that academic institutions have fucked up their business model, but I see two problems with this in most of the discourse about it
One- the blame always gets thrown on the feet of administrators, and while they do make disproportionately more than educators and other employees, it seems to be accepted that most of the tuition inflation is a result of decreasing amounts of federal and public funding for universities. The university I just left saw a 40% tuition increase after a 30% decrease in state allocations to their budget.
Universities are hurting, bad, and while they may be making poor financial decisions, the solution to that isn't to cut them off of public funds, because that just makes the problem worse in the realm of tuition inflation.
What they should've done is cut their expenses by 30%, not increased tuition. I'm no economist, but I'd bet the majority of that increase will be covered in grants and loans. To me that says they saw a huge drop in revenue and instead of slashing overhead they knew they had a captive market that will buy whatever they sell so they just cranked up the price and offloaded their pain to customers who can't demand a refund if they get nothing of tangible value for their purchase.
very business-like, though, you gotta admit
I mean, if you had a captive market as a business, why wouldn't you do exactly this
Yeah, you're pretty correct there. It's unsustainable though... eventually you have somebody try to undercut your business. In this sector it's for-profit schools.
I wasn't the least bit surprised to see government begin to go after for-profit institutions for exactly the same problems traditional institutions have, with those very same institutions cheering from the sidelines.
What for-profit universities do is fleece people who have no idea how education works or should cost, for all their money. Pretty happy to see them get sued into oblivion in the next few years.
That describes the traditional university system just as well. I'd like to see all post-secondary education held to the same standards, and I'd be pretty happy to see a couple of universities sued into oblivion as well.
What portions or departments are you talking about? I'm curious.
It varies from institution to institution but heck, you even see blatant misrepresentation in graduate-level law programs. Practically every university will charge you more for your freshman core requirements than an associated community college, and they'll accept the CC's credits. When you agree that a far cheaper set of coursework is 100% equivalent to your more expensive offering, yet you still go to great lengths to convince students you're completely justified charging more and they believe you, that is some A-level fleecing.
If the only thing they were doing is selling you credits this might be the case
It isn't
Community colleges, are, by and large, terrible
They do try, and there are exceptions (almost always in the form of specific professors or departments) but there is a gulf between even the worst state schools and CCs in quality of education, even and perhaps especially at the survey level
What does it matter, if you're able to tackle the later coursework? A terrible Comp 1 class is equal to a fantastic, amazing Comp 1 class both in terms of the degree requirements to buy your credentials, and to your ability to succeed in meeting the rest of the requirements.
There's no reason Comp 1 from a university should cost you $1000 but only cost $125 at the community college.
False. Location is going to play a big role in all of this. Big Universities are either in cities, or at the center of college towns. Community colleges can exist anywhere, but usually don't require the same amount of capital to run. At the very base level, there's real estate. Then account for cost of living. Then account for having to pay people enough to attract talent.
Arguing that schools should be run more like a business is only going to escalate that problem, as market prices vary from place to place on pretty much anything.
Let's be more concrete then. University of Texas at Austin's freshman year costs ~$9000 in state not counting books and housing. The university owns the land through a grant enshrined in the Texas Constitution. A freshman taking a standard load is paying ~$1800 per course, about $600/credit hour. Let's be super generous and put 50% of that toward non-salary expenses of running the college... so we're talking ~$900 for Freshman Composition 101.
Austin Community College is 6 blocks away from the UT Campus and offers Composition 101 for $125. Do you really think UT's offering is 700% better?
I don't think it works like this.
Which part is wrong?
That you can compare like courses from two different universities, look at the costs and expenses of a university, and then make a judgement about the course.
Or, the whole thing.
I think you missed my larger point - the best Freshman comp 101 course in the history of everything is still nothing more than a basic set of coursework you need to check off on your list of requirements, and the education you got in the class won't have any bearing on whether or not you succeed in getting your degree. There isn't any way that course can have that much more value because it was taught at the university, and the university agrees! I know they do, because they allow students to substitute the CC credits.
So why is it 700% more expensive to get those credits at university?
Because the costs of running a university are much higher than a community college?
Psn:wazukki
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Community colleges are subsidized by their A/C departments.
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Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
21st what you need to do is punch Anxiety in the face with a crippling addiction to prescription drugs.
i'm on meds, they help, but i still feel a lot of stress, which makes no sense, i don't have a job, i don't have school work, i have nothing and yet i feel stressed out about everything.
Sigh. i just get bigger and bigger doses every time i see my psychiatrist... but it's slow, progress is real slow.
I thought starting a project would help, but now my card game is causing me some stress. Sigh. i can't win 'em all, i guess.
you know you can unload on me in Google chat anytime you want right? Dude. I may make jokes you don't always find funny but I know crippling anxiety. I dropped out of high school in 10th grade because I went to an innercity school and feared for my life. I became a shut-in My mom had a nervous breakdown when I was 17. I took it hard and became even more afraid of the outside world. I had so much anxiety I would hide my mom's car keys before I went to sleep so she wouldn't do anything crazy while I was out. I basically gave up on visiting my dad because that would mean leaving the house and my mom. I was FUCKED UP, son. And emotionally crippled, and socially stunted. It's why sometimes it's easy to be like, There's no way Ludious is 29 years old. Because in some ways I'M FUCKING NOT. So
I understand man. I have been down that dark and lonely road.
I can't fix you but I sure as shit will listen.
And I can tell you it will get better.
Thanks, man, i'll keep that in mind. i really appreciate it. But right now, I think i'm gonna try and just... Do something else, get my mind off my stress. Venting a bit helped, though.
A reason to get up in the morning and do things has improved my life immensely. You sound very directionless, 21st. It's important to find a purpose even if it is just owning a pet. My cats probably saved my life at one point. So don't beat yourself up about being stressed when you have nothing going on.
Yeah, I'm doing something, too, started working on a card game, I had 8 pretty good days working on it and now, well, i need to find a way to playtest it myself before sending it to a few volunteers.
Man, now that i think about it, making a card game in 8 days is kinda nuts, i shouldn't feel too bad if it ends up being terrible, i'd have time to start over from scratch
Am I terrible for thinking of an inner city school comedy movie where this is attempted and it all goes hilariously wrong? Most likely by Tyler Perry!
I'll say its hippie bullshit.
The closest thing they have to non-subjective results is "because we don't suspend as much, we have fewer suspensions." If you read the whole thing they slip in the closest thing to non-subjective analysis of how things are now great at the end:
The changes at Lincoln have not eliminated expulsions. And the school hasn’t done the analysis to know for certain if the changes have resulted in better grades and attendance.
It comes across like a CEO talking about his new management model that will revolutionize the industry and make profits skyrocket without any evidence.
Am I terrible for thinking of an inner city school comedy movie where this is attempted and it all goes hilariously wrong? Most likely by Tyler Perry!
I'll say its hippie bullshit.
The closest thing they have to non-subjective results is "because we don't suspend as much, we have fewer suspensions." If you read the whole thing they slip in the closest thing to non-subjective analysis of how things are now great at the end:
The changes at Lincoln have not eliminated expulsions. And the school hasn’t done the analysis to know for certain if the changes have resulted in better grades and attendance.
It comes across like a CEO talking about his new management model that will revolutionize the industry and make profits skyrocket without any evidence.
The reputation of a school is bound up in the effort to obfuscate the value of its education behind a host of secondary things, one of which is the credentials of the faculty. Good credentials build up the reputation, and reputation increases the perceived value of the credentials, but education and future success rates aren't factored into that cycle - they're obscured as much as possible.
There's some substantial evidence that you earn more graduating from a more selective university -cite- -cite- (especially from a minority/working class background).
Your citations aren't all that awesome.... the study doesn't look at students graduating this decade, and argues my point while calling $400,000 of earning spread over an entire career "significant". That's around a $9000/yr average benefit for going to Harvard vs. going to UT. A sizable portion of that average benefit is consumed simply servicing the debt load to get the degree!
Anyway, neither one addresses the need for individual institutions to grade the success of their graduating classes, by major, when discussing with prospective students whether or not the particular degree is a good investment. Often the surveys conducted by admissions departments are of self-selected alumni! This information is hard to get and harder to rely on, when it exists at all.
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Similarly, high school was nothing but sleep/read fantasy books time with small breaks to get 99 percentiles on my standardized tests and to stare at hot girls asses while never asking them out.
Like, I definitely agree that academic institutions have fucked up their business model, but I see two problems with this in most of the discourse about it
One- the blame always gets thrown on the feet of administrators, and while they do make disproportionately more than educators and other employees, it seems to be accepted that most of the tuition inflation is a result of decreasing amounts of federal and public funding for universities. The university I just left saw a 40% tuition increase after a 30% decrease in state allocations to their budget.
Universities are hurting, bad, and while they may be making poor financial decisions, the solution to that isn't to cut them off of public funds, because that just makes the problem worse in the realm of tuition inflation.
What they should've done is cut their expenses by 30%, not increased tuition. I'm no economist, but I'd bet the majority of that increase will be covered in grants and loans. To me that says they saw a huge drop in revenue and instead of slashing overhead they knew they had a captive market that will buy whatever they sell so they just cranked up the price and offloaded their pain to customers who can't demand a refund if they get nothing of tangible value for their purchase.
very business-like, though, you gotta admit
I mean, if you had a captive market as a business, why wouldn't you do exactly this
Yeah, you're pretty correct there. It's unsustainable though... eventually you have somebody try to undercut your business. In this sector it's for-profit schools.
I wasn't the least bit surprised to see government begin to go after for-profit institutions for exactly the same problems traditional institutions have, with those very same institutions cheering from the sidelines.
What for-profit universities do is fleece people who have no idea how education works or should cost, for all their money. Pretty happy to see them get sued into oblivion in the next few years.
That describes the traditional university system just as well. I'd like to see all post-secondary education held to the same standards, and I'd be pretty happy to see a couple of universities sued into oblivion as well.
What portions or departments are you talking about? I'm curious.
It varies from institution to institution but heck, you even see blatant misrepresentation in graduate-level law programs. Practically every university will charge you more for your freshman core requirements than an associated community college, and they'll accept the CC's credits. When you agree that a far cheaper set of coursework is 100% equivalent to your more expensive offering, yet you still go to great lengths to convince students you're completely justified charging more and they believe you, that is some A-level fleecing.
If the only thing they were doing is selling you credits this might be the case
It isn't
Community colleges, are, by and large, terrible
They do try, and there are exceptions (almost always in the form of specific professors or departments) but there is a gulf between even the worst state schools and CCs in quality of education, even and perhaps especially at the survey level
What does it matter, if you're able to tackle the later coursework? A terrible Comp 1 class is equal to a fantastic, amazing Comp 1 class both in terms of the degree requirements to buy your credentials, and to your ability to succeed in meeting the rest of the requirements.
There's no reason Comp 1 from a university should cost you $1000 but only cost $125 at the community college.
False. Location is going to play a big role in all of this. Big Universities are either in cities, or at the center of college towns. Community colleges can exist anywhere, but usually don't require the same amount of capital to run. At the very base level, there's real estate. Then account for cost of living. Then account for having to pay people enough to attract talent.
Arguing that schools should be run more like a business is only going to escalate that problem, as market prices vary from place to place on pretty much anything.
Let's be more concrete then. University of Texas at Austin's freshman year costs ~$9000 in state not counting books and housing. The university owns the land through a grant enshrined in the Texas Constitution. A freshman taking a standard load is paying ~$1800 per course, about $600/credit hour. Let's be super generous and put 50% of that toward non-salary expenses of running the college... so we're talking ~$900 for Freshman Composition 101.
Austin Community College is 6 blocks away from the UT Campus and offers Composition 101 for $125. Do you really think UT's offering is 700% better?
I don't think it works like this.
Which part is wrong?
That you can compare like courses from two different universities, look at the costs and expenses of a university, and then make a judgement about the course.
Or, the whole thing.
I think you missed my larger point - the best Freshman comp 101 course in the history of everything is still nothing more than a basic set of coursework you need to check off on your list of requirements, and the education you got in the class won't have any bearing on whether or not you succeed in getting your degree. There isn't any way that course can have that much more value because it was taught at the university, and the university agrees! I know they do, because they allow students to substitute the CC credits.
So why is it 700% more expensive to get those credits at university?
Because the costs of running a university are much higher than a community college?
Look at my back-of-the-envelope guesses... I already tossed in 50% of the actual cost to cover non-salary expenses, and it's still ~700% more expensive for the same credit requirement.
Posts
Lucky bastard. I wish I was pretty in my 20s. I wish I was pretty in any age really.
You need to tape that Will picture over your face, but okay. Will just does it for me.
Because they celebrate May day, probably.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I think you missed my larger point - the best Freshman comp 101 course in the history of everything is still nothing more than a basic set of coursework you need to check off on your list of requirements, and the education you got in the class won't have any bearing on whether or not you succeed in getting your degree. There isn't any way that course can have that much more value because it was taught at the university, and the university agrees! I know they do, because they allow students to substitute the CC credits.
So why is it 700% more expensive to get those credits at university?
iPhone in T-1 more day. Can't wait.
you know you can unload on me in Google chat anytime you want right? Dude. I may make jokes you don't always find funny but I know crippling anxiety. I dropped out of high school in 10th grade because I went to an innercity school and feared for my life. I became a shut-in My mom had a nervous breakdown when I was 17. I took it hard and became even more afraid of the outside world. I had so much anxiety I would hide my mom's car keys before I went to sleep so she wouldn't do anything crazy while I was out. I basically gave up on visiting my dad because that would mean leaving the house and my mom. I was FUCKED UP, son. And emotionally crippled, and socially stunted. It's why sometimes it's easy to be like, There's no way Ludious is 29 years old. Because in some ways I'M FUCKING NOT. So
I understand man. I have been down that dark and lonely road.
I can't fix you but I sure as shit will listen.
And I can tell you it will get better.
Because the costs of running a university are much higher than a community college?
Are you seeing a psychologist as well? I know last time we talked you were going to soon but that was a few months ago.
Medication or talk therapy help alone but they are a stronger combination together.
Steam/PSN/XBL/Minecraft / LoL / - Benevicious | WoW - Duckwood - Rajhek
Thanks, man, i'll keep that in mind. i really appreciate it. But right now, I think i'm gonna try and just... Do something else, get my mind off my stress. Venting a bit helped, though.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Was it Snow Dogs?
Was it Shadowboxer?
Did Stephen Dorff touch you?
I bet he did that bastard.
thing progressively getting ever-so-slightly better. but it's enough.
Yeah, I'm doing something, too, started working on a card game, I had 8 pretty good days working on it and now, well, i need to find a way to playtest it myself before sending it to a few volunteers.
Man, now that i think about it, making a card game in 8 days is kinda nuts, i shouldn't feel too bad if it ends up being terrible, i'd have time to start over from scratch
i'm on a waiting list, since I no longer want to kill myself every day. I should get to see someone in a few months.
Thanks for your concern, it really helps me feel better, at any rate.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
twitch.tv/tehsloth
I'll say its hippie bullshit.
The closest thing they have to non-subjective results is "because we don't suspend as much, we have fewer suspensions." If you read the whole thing they slip in the closest thing to non-subjective analysis of how things are now great at the end:
It comes across like a CEO talking about his new management model that will revolutionize the industry and make profits skyrocket without any evidence.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Like I don't even know why I don't just off myself right now. Everything about myself and my situation just keeps getting worse.
It recently went down very slightly in the UK! Maybe it'll all be fine in three years.
Your citations aren't all that awesome.... the study doesn't look at students graduating this decade, and argues my point while calling $400,000 of earning spread over an entire career "significant". That's around a $9000/yr average benefit for going to Harvard vs. going to UT. A sizable portion of that average benefit is consumed simply servicing the debt load to get the degree!
Anyway, neither one addresses the need for individual institutions to grade the success of their graduating classes, by major, when discussing with prospective students whether or not the particular degree is a good investment. Often the surveys conducted by admissions departments are of self-selected alumni! This information is hard to get and harder to rely on, when it exists at all.
http://www.paultough.com/povertyclinic.pdf
The ACE study is important, Pants.
Geordi is getting really annoyed by Scotty. it's funny.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Get out of my head!
Except I looked at girls boobs also.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
i may have had some drinks this afternoon
i have no excuse for winky's conduct
Didn't we do this as well, Chu?
o_o
Look at my back-of-the-envelope guesses... I already tossed in 50% of the actual cost to cover non-salary expenses, and it's still ~700% more expensive for the same credit requirement.
i may have also had some drinks that day
CC: desc
will you send me a lock of your hair for my due doll
No one uses AIM anymore.