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[Company of Heroes 2] Warfare on the Western and Eastern Fronts!

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Posts

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    The Leningrad Blockade would be depressing as hell, but you'd have two and a half years in game time to do it, so I'd be really surprised if it wasn't looked at. I guess we don't still know the scope of the campaign.
    Melkster wrote: »
    So, I'm super excited about this game.

    A few months ago, I discovered a series of podcasts about the Eastern Front and was completely surprised at my lack of education on the second World War.

    Turns out that...

    * The Eastern Front was the largest war in human history by pretty much an order of magnitude. And given the advent of nuclear weapons, it had better be the largest land war ever in our history. If we are to survive as a civilization and perhaps even as a species, the Eastern Front will forever remain the largest land war ever fought.
    * The Russians were pretty much the ones who won the war against Germany. The Allied invasion of Normandy would not have gone as well as it did had not the Germany military been devastated in the East.
    * Germany actually backstabbed the Russians, when they could have continued their pact of non-aggression and turned their attention to Britain or elsewhere. It is probably the greatest betrayal in human history, and the most costly.

    It makes for the greatest historical battlefield to turn into a game. But hopefully they will also be respectful to the massive loss of life that the Ostfront represents. These were two superpowers ruled by thoroughly evil men, and though the strategy is interesting, it represents the single greatest hardship for the common people of those two nations. To the survivors, I wonder if it would be like making a video game out of 9/11.

    They should have seen it coming. Hitler made a lot of nasty campaign promises, and had delivered on most of them up to that point.

    Joking aside, the shots are less than stellar, but as already mentioned, they only look as good as COH and they're not in motion. Plus we're going to be dealing with things like melting snow and so forth, which might take their toll on the engine (but would be well worth it in my opinion).

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I find that piece of history funny (The political decisions, not the thousands of people dying). Germany pretty much had Britain in the bag, they were stuck in England, and Germany was mobilizing. THEN you decide to screw with one of your best economic partners, who give you raw materials for your war effort. They woke up the sleeping red bear, and they got their face clawed and bitten the fuck off. Then their allies, the Japanese, decides to wake up Sam the eagle, tries to break one of it's eggs, and Sam claws out their two eyes with his talons and gets at their heart with his beak.

    They should not have screwed with the bear and the eagle. Smacky the frog helped a lot too.

    (I love these metaphors)

    Kadoken on
    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • TriiipledotTriiipledot Registered User regular
    Anyone gonna be on today? I want to get some games in.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Kadoken wrote: »
    I find that piece of history funny (The political decisions, not the thousands of people dying). Germany pretty much had Britain in the bag, they were stuck in England, and Germany was mobilizing. THEN you decide to screw with one of your best economic partners, who give you raw materials for your war effort. They woke up the sleeping red bear, and they got their face clawed and bitten the fuck off. Then their allies, the Japanese, decides to wake up Sam the eagle, tries to break one of it's eggs, and Sam claws out their two eyes with his talons and gets at their heart with his beak.

    They should not have screwed with the bear and the eagle. Smacky the frog helped a lot too.

    (I love these metaphors)

    Animal metaphors. Uhg.

    Here, let me give it a try: a few decades later, America burned the Vietnamese Tiger, just as the French had. And like with the French, that tiger slowly, bloodily, kicked their asses.

    I feel dirty. But technically accurate. The worse kind of accurate.

    More topically, nice of them to acknowledge the Eastern Front mod in the RPS interview.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Rock Paper Shotgun interview part 2.
    Duffy: It was an important part of how we paced the original game. I don’t know if I mentioned it earlier but COH isn’t about actions per minute. I see our balance guys and testers clicking like crazy but it’s not about that. Part of the pacing and part of the reason we are we are were we’re at in development is that we looked at COH and were it had evolved to over time, over the patching process. It became a little faster paced and tactics like kiting were emerging that our systems weren’t designed and built around. We’re going back to what the point were the player has time to react to what’s happening.

    Berger: As an example, units ended up doing more and more damage. We’ve dialled back the damage they do because what’s important isn’t the damage, It’s the suppression. You’re held in place and if you don’t do anything about it then you’ll be destroyed.

    Duffy: This way we give both players chances to react and adapt. They can bring in new units, use a mortar, throw a grenade. Tactical options come out of systems like that.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Any article that mentions Come and See gets major props from me.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    I really do prefer the fact that they're putting the emphasis elsewhere than pure "e-sports" with their design.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    subedii wrote: »
    I really do prefer the fact that they're putting the emphasis elsewhere than pure "e-sports" with their design.

    Which is good because Starcraft is pretty much the shittiest shit to ever shit a shit on a shit and games that end up with that mentality are god awful boring. Clicking hundreds of times a minute and micromanaging each individual unit does not mean it's a good RTS.

    OpposingFarce
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    I really do prefer the fact that they're putting the emphasis elsewhere than pure "e-sports" with their design.

    Which is good because Starcraft is pretty much the shittiest shit to ever shit a shit on a shit and games that end up with that mentality are god awful boring. Clicking hundreds of times a minute and micromanaging each individual unit does not mean it's a good RTS.

    I tend to think Relic really moved RTS game design forward with COH and DOW2, the emphasis on smaller unit groups, control points, the move away from base building, all really good things that effectively make Starcraft 2 feel like an archaic, creeky throwback to me when I play it. I get why it's popular, but it depresses me that the game isn't really innovating. I find the SC2 unit micro really tedious compared to the fun I had micro-ing a para-trooper squad in behind a tank to take it out, or getting a good machine gun emplacement and locking down an important control point.

    Dark_Side on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    Starcraft is popular because the faster pace lends itself well to broadcasting and commentary. Starcraft games are on average about 6 minutes long. Meanwhile COH games are closer to half an hour.

    Relic would improve things if they spent time working on the replay system for COH2. There should be spectator spots, at least, for matches. There should be more replay functionality and on screen UI elements that benefit live-casting.

    SC2 has things like player names, build queues, that sort of stuff. COH2 should also.

    There's a robust and long-lasting COH replay community. Still going five years later, with the Sunday Night Fights thing and the invitationals.

    But they're doing it despite the game, that is so obtuse and unsatisfying for that mode of replays. They have to actually use external, third party UI tools just to make it watchable, and even then it is plagued by sync problems and all that jazz.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    They made all the repaly/spec stuff for DoW2, hopefully they can port some of it over.

    No e3 videos?

  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    Alegis wrote: »
    They made all the repaly/spec stuff for DoW2, hopefully they can port some of it over.

    No e3 videos?

    All will be shown tomorrow, I believe. They have a suite in a hotel across the road lined with PCs to play it/watch it.

    At least, that's the word on the street*



    *And by street I mean Relic forums.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Starcraft is the exception, not the rule when it comes to streaming capabilities. Most games that get broadcast in a quasi-sort of professional sense tend to require 3rd party tools in order to have a quality stream. Hell, even in fighting games, which are probably streamed more than any other genre they still need those tools.

  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Hey Subedii, I saw your comments on the RPS article and thought they were pretty well thought out, agree totally.

    Excited for this game and the fact that the CoH community is still going pretty strong after all this time! I'm going to have to get back into playing it. Tried to get into SC2 since it's "the rts you play" right now, but I just can't enjoy macro, feels like a chore I have to do to get to the fun tactical bits. Which of course is like the opposite of how you should think in SC2.

    Also if anyone wants to play, my Steam and Relic Online name is DarkMecha.

    DarkMecha on
    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    This damn thread...I'm probably going to end up installing all of the COH's again tonight....

  • ApostateApostate Registered User regular
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Starcraft is popular because the faster pace lends itself well to broadcasting and commentary. Starcraft games are on average about 6 minutes long. Meanwhile COH games are closer to half an hour.

    Relic would improve things if they spent time working on the replay system for COH2. There should be spectator spots, at least, for matches. There should be more replay functionality and on screen UI elements that benefit live-casting.

    SC2 has things like player names, build queues, that sort of stuff. COH2 should also.

    There's a robust and long-lasting COH replay community. Still going five years later, with the Sunday Night Fights thing and the invitationals.

    But they're doing it despite the game, that is so obtuse and unsatisfying for that mode of replays. They have to actually use external, third party UI tools just to make it watchable, and even then it is plagued by sync problems and all that jazz.

    I've always felt CoH is one of the best games to watch out there. The pace lends itself well to it and it looks great. There's real tension as the game goes on. Each contact bringing in a few more new units until it turns into a full on combined arms brawl. The terrain slowly being chewed to bits attack after attack. CoHs comeback mechanisms also contributed to this as you couldn't always be sure the game was really over.

    In fact I think I may have logged as many hours watching matches as playing them (as embarrassing as that is). Two high end players duking it out could really be a thing of beauty though. I would love it if Relic spruced up the replays to show more info and the like.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    I would sell a child if it meant that Relic actually added some cool shoutcasting features to the game, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It was a fucking miracle that we got little arrows in Dawn of War II replays. For a while the replay system was broken and wouldn't work if you switched sides halfway through or something like that (which was ironically an exaggerated version of a bug that was in CoH). Blizzard is the only RTS maker in the entire world that gives a shit about people watching instead of playing, and I suspect even that is a result of the following they unexpectedly acquired for Starcraft rather than an actual commitment. If they actually cared about this stuff, Warcraft III probably would've had e-sports features like SC2, and it didn't really.

    I'd love to be proven wrong but... I don't have much faith in Relic. They can make beautiful games, and they can make innovative games, and often times they luck out and their innovation is enjoyable, but there's a vast list of stuff that they don't have a prayer of even attempting, let alone getting right, and spectator features, I fear, are on that list.

    BUT I hope to god I'm wrong because I'm going to be the one making those videos that people watch and I'd love to cut down on the headaches.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I suspect even that is a result of the following they unexpectedly acquired for Starcraft rather than an actual commitment.
    Pretty much. If Starcraft hadn't turned into a giant "EEEEEEEEESPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORTS" event I highly doubt that Blizzard would have wasted a single 1 or 0 on all the extra streaming/tournament stuff.


    EDIT: Then again, I highly doubt there'd even BE a Starcraft 2 if it hadn't blown up the way it did. Warcraft 4? Anyone? No? Yeah, exactly.

    TOGSolid on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I suspect even that is a result of the following they unexpectedly acquired for Starcraft rather than an actual commitment.
    Pretty much. If Starcraft hadn't turned into a giant "EEEEEEEEESPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORTS" event I highly doubt that Blizzard would have wasted a single 1 or 0 on all the extra streaming/tournament stuff.


    EDIT: Then again, I highly doubt there'd even BE a Starcraft 2 if it hadn't blown up the way it did. Warcraft 4? Anyone? No? Yeah, exactly.
    Huh? I mean, there's no Warcraft 4 yet, but there is a Warcraft III, and a Warcraft II, and expansions for both, plus an expansion for Starcraft, so... I'm not sure Blizzard would have given up on RTS games if Korea hadn't adopted Starcraft as a national sport.

  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    They at least need to let you choose what point of time you want to see.

    I want a Dawn of War 1 option of choosing corpses to stay on screen. That was awesome after repeated huge battles seeing dozens of Marine, IG, and Ork corpses sprawled on the ground. Seeing dozens of Sovs and Germs dead in the snow would be great for aesthetics and atmosphere.

    Kadoken on
    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I suspect even that is a result of the following they unexpectedly acquired for Starcraft rather than an actual commitment.
    Pretty much. If Starcraft hadn't turned into a giant "EEEEEEEEESPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORTS" event I highly doubt that Blizzard would have wasted a single 1 or 0 on all the extra streaming/tournament stuff.


    EDIT: Then again, I highly doubt there'd even BE a Starcraft 2 if it hadn't blown up the way it did. Warcraft 4? Anyone? No? Yeah, exactly.
    Huh? I mean, there's no Warcraft 4 yet, but there is a Warcraft III, and a Warcraft II, and expansions for both, plus an expansion for Starcraft, so... I'm not sure Blizzard would have given up on RTS games if Korea hadn't adopted Starcraft as a national sport.

    They wouldn't have given up on them, but there'd be far less motivation to make Starcraft into this multi-game thing if it hadn't. Warcraft 3's expansion was the last thing they put out before they started suckling at the bountiful teat of WoW for years. What do we get afterwards? Diablo 3, which was guaranteed to sell a gorillion copies (and is honestly kind of a half-assed cash grab in a lot of ways) and Starcraft 2 which was guaranteed to sell $Korea copies.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Uh, yeah, every *craft game is guaranteed to sell a gorillion copies, whether or not it's the national sport of Korea.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    2 new screenshots from their Facebook page, because they said "we will release new screenshots if we get enough 'Like's"

    EINZW.jpg

    mYZ0U.jpg

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I would sell a child if it meant that Relic actually added some cool shoutcasting features to the game, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It was a fucking miracle that we got little arrows in Dawn of War II replays. For a while the replay system was broken and wouldn't work if you switched sides halfway through or something like that (which was ironically an exaggerated version of a bug that was in CoH). Blizzard is the only RTS maker in the entire world that gives a shit about people watching instead of playing, and I suspect even that is a result of the following they unexpectedly acquired for Starcraft rather than an actual commitment. If they actually cared about this stuff, Warcraft III probably would've had e-sports features like SC2, and it didn't really.

    I'd love to be proven wrong but... I don't have much faith in Relic. They can make beautiful games, and they can make innovative games, and often times they luck out and their innovation is enjoyable, but there's a vast list of stuff that they don't have a prayer of even attempting, let alone getting right, and spectator features, I fear, are on that list.

    BUT I hope to god I'm wrong because I'm going to be the one making those videos that people watch and I'd love to cut down on the headaches.

    Does Dota 2 count as an RTS? Because Valve have got some ridiculous community tools in that one.

    Basically I really hope that since this is likely to be Steamworks, Relic are going to have a look at what Valve have done with Dota 2 and take a few pages from their book.

    I mean the ability to watch any match live would be awesome in itself.


    EDIT: @ DarkMecha:

    Haha, thanks. In truth, I've spent far more time with DoW2 than I ever did with CoH, but the principle's largely the same. This time I want to get in on CoH 2 on the ground floor.

    subedii on
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    What does "Ground floor" even mean? I've seen in the GW2 thread a lot? Do a lot of People Persons do the Ground Floor thing? Are they afraid of getting Disease Germs?

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    What does "Ground floor" even mean? I've seen in the GW2 thread a lot? Do a lot of People Persons do the Ground Floor thing? Are they afraid of getting Disease Germs?
    ...what? "Get in on the ground floor" means to get going with something at the beginning.

    @subedii - you're totally right about DotA 2. I think that's a combination of the popularity of DotA in the competitive realm, Valve's desire to replace DotA completely with a perfect clone that is somehow also better in every way, and Valve's inability to ever do anything wrong.

  • TriiipledotTriiipledot Registered User regular
    I cant wait for this game, those screenshots look awesome. Is there a release date announced yet?

  • ApostateApostate Registered User regular
    I cant wait for this game, those screenshots look awesome. Is there a release date announced yet?

    Early next year IIRC. So don't get too hyped just yet. ;-)

  • TriiipledotTriiipledot Registered User regular
    Apostate wrote: »
    I cant wait for this game, those screenshots look awesome. Is there a release date announced yet?

    Early next year IIRC. So don't get too hyped just yet. ;-)

    I'm. Still playing first game but playing the same 3 maps online is getting old...lyon, vire, st hilare....

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    In 'news that might be of interest to those that follow this thread', Men of War franchise is on midweek madness.

    I've heard good things about MoW: Assault Squad so I might be picking that up. The first thing I thought of when Relic talked about their new LoS system was Men of War, since it basically does the same thing (you see what your men could feasibly see, not a circle of vision).


    EDIT: Haha, Tycho I didn't know you were still making MoW casts, you were like the first person that cropped up when I went to youtube. :P

    subedii on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    subedii wrote: »
    In 'news that might be of interest to those that follow this thread', Men of War franchise is on midweek madness.

    I've heard good things about MoW: Assault Squad so I might be picking that up. The first thing I thought of when Relic talked about their new LoS system was Men of War, since it basically does the same thing (you see what your men could feasibly see, not a circle of vision).


    EDIT: Haha, Tycho I didn't know you were still making MoW casts, you were like the first person that cropped up when I went to youtube. :P
    Whenever Men of War goes on sale my YouTube views jump a bit.

  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    New trailer for CoH 2. No gameplay footage, but the purpose of this trailer seems primarily aimed at firmly establishing that this is about the Russian front of the conflict, and in particular at dispelling the firmly established popular view that it simply "wasn't as important" as the D-Day landings onwards, and the general lack of awareness that most people have of it.

    subedii on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Two new screenshots also (click for big):

    0hUpG.jpg

    tcHeq.jpg

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Chief Mixologist of the Shatterdome Tiki Bar Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I want to do disturbing things to the tailpipe of that SU-76.

    TOGSolid on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
  • 101101 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I am looking forward to this. Particularly glad to see they're doing plenty of work with AI and Player vs Computer, because I am the absolute worst at PvP.

    101 on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Uh, yeah, every *craft game is guaranteed to sell a gorillion copies, whether or not it's the national sport of Korea.

    True. We might not be talking about Starcraft 2 sales, but let's get real: SC2 sales are in large part because it was moving on from more than a decade of one game and one expansion. Gaming companies kill for a fraction of that, which a Warcraft IV would easily provide.
    subedii wrote: »
    New trailer for CoH 2. No gameplay footage, but the purpose of this trailer seems primarily aimed at firmly establishing that this is about the Russian front of the conflict, and in particular at dispelling the firmly established popular view that it simply "wasn't as important" as the D-Day landings onwards, and the general lack of awareness that most people have of it.


    A nice take on the typical graphical briefing that, for lack of a better term, I'll call "CoD classic style". since it really reminded me of World at War's briefing videos. I do like their framing and choice of words. Only one criticism: as usual, they begin to fall into the trap of making "Russia" indistinguishable from the Soviet Union, both in dialog and the map. Hear me out: to make that very common confusion is to detract, somewhat, from the struggle of the other republics and their peoples from the same epic struggle. It's actually some of a political and cultural faux pas in the modern CIS for that reason (the domain of modern Russian equivalents of neocon douche pundits, among others), where an awareness of history means most people know better anyway--hence, all politicians are careful to use the words "the Soviet peoples" or "the nationalities of the Soviet Union" in place of "Russian". And there's a reason for it: for example, Belarus, which was reunited right before the war when the west half was liberated from Poland--out of about 9 million, more than 2 million people died. That's coming on one out of every four people in an entire republic (albeit a small one). In Ukraine, about 16% of the population perished.

    It's not a gameplay thing, but given that this is not a gameplay video, but a "thinking" one, I think it's a valid one. That being said, they're doing a lot of things right so far, so pointing out one or two things done wrong should be held in that context.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, poyo and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    The video was simple, but I liked it. Hmm, I hope I don't feel like I'm getting over saturated in WW2 Eastern front and lessen my hype (When it's appropriate near release). I'm happily awaiting this and playing RO2.

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • BroncbusterBroncbuster Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    I am looking forward to this. Particularly glad to see they're doing plenty of work with AI and Player vs Computer, because I am the absolute worst at PvP.

    me too broseph, me too!

    steam_sig.png
    Origin: Broncbuster
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