Edit: @flay
Yeah I guess for me its... Always open. Things might change. They might not. I dont really care I guess. I'm pretty content as it is. If something happens where I start being sexual, then I guess I'm sexual and I move on from there. I guess thats why labels are ... not good in a lot of ways. Its easy to think there is something you have to live up to. Its easier to just go with it and be open to change.
Now granted, it took me a LONG time (and an awkward divorce) to become comfortable with that kind of mentality so... yeah.
If you're born a boy you're a boy. Even if you have a surgery to look like a girl.
I have no problem with transgender people but I do have a problem with dishonesty.
Especially when I'm drunk and easily confused.
To paraphrase: "I'm not racist, but..."
Fuck you.
Sigh. Seriously?
If an illegal immigrant doesn't like being called an illegal immigrant they have a choice. Come into the country legally or get the law changed. This is not a commentary on whether they deserve to be in the country it is merely a statement of fact as to how they are defined based on their actions and the laws of the land.
If a panda wants to dress like a tiger and act like a tiger Im all for it. Its not hurting anyone and ultimately it doesnt effect me in any way. Just dont expect me to agree that the panda is, in actuality, a tiger.
Today's penny-arcade and the article to go along with it (regarding diablo 3 being in existence on my hard drive but not reality) is something I can entirely relate with.
Man fuck wal-mart, best buy and Game stop. I don't need a fucking container to sit on my shelf, or a disc that will cease its purpose on this earth the moment it's contents are transferred to my external hard drive. I ALREADY HAVE THE GAME LEMME AT IT!!!!
I'm not trying to be snarky and apologize if I came off as such.
Not really snarky. Poorly informed, incredibly judgemental, absolutely missing the point entirely? Yes, probably.
You really are basically making a "well, it's your choice to be gay" caliber argument here. And then you followed it up with a "and if I'm drunk I'll want to fuck you, but then you've had a penis at one point and UGH HOW DARE YOU RUIN MY NIGHT LIKE THAT!" which is just... so classy.
I'm not trying to be snarky and apologize if I came off as such.
Not really snarky. Poorly informed, incredibly judgemental, absolutely missing the point entirely? Yes, probably.
You really are basically making a "well, it's your choice to be gay" caliber argument here.
You're one to talk about judgmental. Just because you view your judgements as an edict that you deliver from a throne atop your narrow and pointed shnoz don't make them any less of a judgement. Seriously, every time you enter one of these debates your shit comes off like "How dare anyone not share my opinion, for if they do not they are evil, and under-evolved."
Really, it is their choice to get their dick cut off. You could get a vagina installed on your forehead, it doesn't change your actual gender at the genetic level.
Male or female is not determined by the existence or non-existence of junk, it is decided by the motherfucking chromosomes that you are born with. PLEASE debate me on this.
I don't know what the fuck is up with the illegal immigrant analogy, but going with the panda/tiger analogy, a more apt description (though not perfect) would be how you would classify an animal that literally had a tiger's brain- physiologically, not merely psychologically, but it had been born with a panda's body. (For reference, it's been shown that there are physical differences between the brains of a male and a MtF, and a female and an FtM.) http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html )
This is not a perfect analogy by any means, but it's certainly a lot closer than your analogy. Your analogy is closer to transvestism, which is not at all the same (and I think transgendered people would rightly be offended at the suggestion that it was).
This sort of shit is actually complicated (far, far more complicated than the simple analogy would suggest) and scientists who study this stuff for a living haven't figured it all out, in terms of how the genetics work, how the physiology works, how the psychology works, and how it all interrelates; so if you can come up with some verifiable scientific evidence that proves beyond a doubt the veracity your position, guess what: you'll probably be up for a Nobel prize, because it would be that significant an accomplishment. Go email the Karolinska Institutet and collect your 10 million krona.
I think the general feeling I've gleaned from persons involved in the issue is that, sticking purely with male sex=male gender, female sex=female as the only two distinctions possible simply is inadequate to describe the various ways the human body and brain can develop, and for those who don't fall into those categories, having those labels forced upon them is simply cruel.
This being the case, it's just a happier world for everyone if you treat people as they would like to be treated in these matters. It's not like you've got anything to lose by going around not offending people.
Also I might note (since there seems to be some kind of confusion here) that one does not BECOME transgendered as a RESULT of a sex change operation. One is BORN transgendered and may GET a sex change to bring their physical bodily aspects more in line with how their brain functions. A transgendered person is still transgendered regardless of whether they take any action to change their physical body or behavior or not. Being transgender is not simply acting out a transvestic urge through body modification, as some seem to be implying here.
(I think I'm getting all this right, but I admit I am not an expert- if someone is more informed than me, feel free to correct; the wikipedia articles on the subject tend to use a lot of big sciencey words I'm not sure I fully grasp.)
Ninjai, nobody is going to debate you on it, because you're wrong, and nobody wants to. It's not a matter of opinion. You are making people uncomfortable and spewing insults and harassment. It's not cool. I suggest you take a gender studies class and stop being so hostile. Or, heck, just start with a wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
Gender =/= Sex.
That is all I am saying, and I really hate that I even had to make this post and will not make another until this is over.
Let me clarify, I read the WOT and the article. I'm that bored... right now... seriously, where is diablo 3.
still, it really sounds to me like people are looking for an excuse for an inability to cope, and/or control their emotions.
but I'm not a goddamn scientist.
AOBacon, If you really think that striving to treat others the way they want to be treated is an achievable goal, you must be living in another plane of reality. All I can strive to do is treat people how I wish to be treated because I don't know what each individuals needs, wants, desires are. I fail at treating others how I want to be treated as it is, let alone know someone else better than myself to know how they want to be treated.
It's not a matter of opinion. You are making people uncomfortable and spewing insults and harassment. It's not cool. I suggest you take a gender studies class and stop being so hostile.
This is the shit I'm talking about.
I'm making people feel uncomfortable because I disagree with them, I feel uncomfortable when people disagree with me...
Someone is going to be offended, someone is going to disagree. It's going to fucking happen.
This coexist/ tolerance bull shit is just a platform of elitism to try and guilt people into thinking that what they believe is wrong. Have at it.
Man, is it just me or did it get spicy in here? I mean at least the potential for Avengers spoilage has gone down, but at what cost?
To what end?
You're tearing each other apart, Lisa!
In other news they announced they're gonna start making Kick-Ass 2 soon. I haven't seen the first one since it was in theaters but I liked it well enough. It was entertaining. I read the comic, and while the Big Daddy story was probably a bit more thought provoking in the book, I was overall more entertained by Nicolas Cage's batshit antics.
Let me clarify, I read the WOT and the article. I'm that bored... right now... seriously, where is diablo 3.
still, it really sounds to me like people are looking for an excuse for an inability to cope, and/or control their emotions.
Again, emotions are connected to the brain. It's not a magic organ that works via the power of wishes and positive thinking. If something in the brain is wrong, you may be sad without any trigger for it nor any independent way to get rid of that feeling (clinical depression). The human fetus starts off female, so it's not surprising that you end up with brains that think they're in a female body when they are in a male one. Not to say that the reverse isn't also a thing, but it's just easier to explain it this way.
Also, shit like this:
AOBacon, If you really think that striving to treat others the way they want to be treated is an achievable goal, you must be living in another plane of reality. All I can strive to do is treat people how I wish to be treated because I don't know what each individuals needs, wants, desires are. I fail at treating others how I want to be treated as it is, let alone know someone else better than myself to know how they want to be treated.
Is ridiculously self-centered, or just short-sighted. How would you like it if people insisted on labeling you as things you didn't want to be labeled as? And not petty minor things like musical tastes or your favorite class in Diablo, but fundamental elements of You like sexuality, morality, and so forth? It should not take a mighty leap in logic to suspect that hey, maybe other people also hate having that done to them.
EDIT: And because I know you'll bring it up, the brain is WAY more complicated than the rest of the body. So it's a lot easier to offer people surgery or just treat them the way they wish to be treated than to come up with a pill that changes fundamental ways they think. Not to mention there's way more ethical issues with a pill that makes you think you're something else.
I would agree that it is self-centered. But really what other perspective does anyone have but a self-centric perspective? Your entire life is viewed from your own eyes, and your own experiences, and my life for the last few months is struggling to try and see others perspectives.
I can respect AOBS post trying to inform and also open to learning, hell it was a great article and it's something I'm going to have to consider, but kochi and fug both "spewing insults and harassment" but also claiming immunity is just a joke.
The problem is your opinion feeds into a greater whole that is actively harmful. People die because of the supposed "dishonesty" bullshit. I'm afraid "making a ninjai a little uncomfortable" isn't quite on the same scale here.
And we're a social species, dude. Empathy is one of our greatest strengths. People are laying some wicked education on you, and I suggest you soak it up. I was thinking the same things as you not too many years ago, and I can say that it's not kosher.
The problem is your opinion feeds into a greater whole that is actively harmful. People die because of the supposed "dishonesty" bullshit. I'm afraid "making a ninjai a little uncomfortable" isn't quite on the same scale here.
And we're a social species, dude. Empathy is one of our greatest strengths. People are laying some wicked education on you, and I suggest you soak it up. I was thinking the same things as you not too many years ago, and I can say that it's not kosher.
The only shit I was uncomfortable with was people ganging up on an individual (not myself) for having an opinion outside their world view. I cannot and will not stand for that shit. What AOB is doing (knowledge bombs) and what has come out of other posters ("insults and harassment") are stark opposites, and I don't appreciate it.
Everything that is different or unfamiliar is uncomfortable. Cell phones to old people, as I'm sure flight or the motor vehicle were when they came about, that's why there are Amish, some people just don't adjust well. Willful surgical manipulation/mutilation is a relatively new phenomena and isn't something that a large group of people are necessarily ready for, as psychiatry was when it was being introduced, I'm sure cybernetic replacement of biological shit will be in the future.
Personally I don't care what people think or do to themselves, I'm open to the knowlege, but claiming superiority in an argument pertaining to ethics is just horse shit I'm not going to stand for. No one has the right make someone feel guilty for disagreeing with them.
It's political correctness run amok. I can't even make a comment about these dishonest trannies playing withcraft with my whiskey boner without some uptight elitist telling me I'm wrong for saying things before my brain can tell me I shouldn't. And they won't even hold my hand to explain to me, with total patience and clarity, why it's wrong to call transsexuals "self-mutilating illegal pandatiger immigrants"! That's just rude.
How would you like it if people insisted on labeling you as things you didn't want to be labeled as? And not petty minor things like musical tastes or your favorite class in Diablo, but fundamental elements of You like sexuality, morality, and so forth? It should not take a mighty leap in logic to suspect that hey, maybe other people also hate having that done to them.
It happens to everyone. Generalization and stereotypes... they tend to stem from truth.
Hilary duff did a thing, and ad if you will, saying "stop using the phrase 'that's so gay'. How would you feel if someone said 'that's so nerd or that's so jock or thats so valley-girl'" ....
OH WAIT THEY DO!!! NERDS GET STEREOTYPED, JOCKS GET STEREOTYPED, valley girls especially SHOULD GET STEREOTYPED why do people with alternate sexual persuasions think they're somehow immune to this!?
I have the solution, thicker skin. Instead of chopping their knobs off, just put some thick skin up on there.
It's political correctness run amok. I can't even make a comment about these dishonest trannies playing withcraft with my whiskey boner without some uptight elitist telling me I'm wrong for saying things before my brain can tell me I shouldn't. And they won't even hold my hand to explain to me, with total patience and clarity, why it's wrong to call transsexuals "self-mutilating illegal pandatiger immigrants"! That's just rude.
The thing that gets me the most, is that these people have a 1st world problem. Regions around the world have been at war persistently for longer than anyone using this forum have been living, starvation, famine, blood, war, disease, death, things that you couldn't comprehend...
And they're more concerned with whether their emotions and sexual tendancies are being sated than struggling for motherfucking survival.
You want to talk about a selfish and self-serving mentality, you want to talk about limited perspective.... Take a look in the motherfucking mirror. Take a walk down Sangin valley in Afghanistan you yellow cowardly insecure motherfuckers. Fight to the death for a meal. For a job. For water. You have fellow human citizens at this very moment being sold into slavery, being killed for their beliefs or race around the fucking world. I dont' know what that's like, or how I'd deal with that.That is struggle. That is hardship, That is what living with problems is like. And they complain "my brain no feel good. I no happy"
Ninjai, everyone here's so hostile to this opinion of yours because you're holding onto this very particular, old-fashioned mainstream understanding of a subset of people that was formed by denying the experience of said people. Basically, transgender people say "here is this first-hand experience and understanding I have that doesn't conform to your personal, pre-conceived notion about what I am experiencing" and you say "no, I prefer my personal, pre-conceived notion."
You can see how this is a problem for some people, right?
Saying we shouldn't try to change this because we have it great already is you projecting your position of privilege on the rest of us. You might consider it a first world problem to be transgender, but that's 'cause you don't have to deal with gender issues and your life is going relatively well in that you're accepted for who you know yourself to be.
People getting fed up with this stuff is how we make it so LGBTQ kids aren't beaten up by their parents for being who they are. I kissed my boyfriend on the shoulder outside of a movie theater this weekend and someone directly behind me scoffed and said "ugh, I don't want to see that". Like I give a damn? It's not his right to police that. The problem isn't so much that the guy was a homophobe. The problem was that he thought he was entitled for me not to be gay. As we're slowly gaining ground in LGB acceptance, the need for wider acceptance of the T is coming into focus.
Being in a first world means we get to work on solving "first world problems". And I'm sorry, but you are the problem. You can't speak with greater authority about gender issues than someone with gender issues because you don't know anything about gender issues, so believe them when they tell you what's what.
Ninjai, everyone here's so hostile to this opinion of yours because you're holding onto this very particular, old-fashioned mainstream understanding of a subset of people that was formed by denying the experience of said people. Basically, transgender people say "here is this first-hand experience and understanding I have that doesn't conform to your personal, pre-conceived notion about what I am experiencing" and you say "no, I prefer my personal, pre-conceived notion."
You can see how this is a problem for some people, right?
Saying we shouldn't try to change this because we have it great already is you projecting your position of privilege on the rest of us. You might consider it a first world problem to be transgender, but that's 'cause you don't have to deal with gender issues and your life is going relatively well in that you're accepted for who you know yourself to be.
People getting fed up with this stuff is how we make it so LGBTQ kids aren't beaten up by their parents for being who they are. I kissed my boyfriend on the shoulder outside of a movie theater this weekend and someone directly behind me scoffed and said "ugh, I don't want to see that". Like I give a damn? It's not his right to police that. The problem isn't so much that the guy was a homophobe. The problem was that he thought he was entitled for me not to be gay. As we're slowly gaining ground in LGB acceptance, the need for wider acceptance of the T is coming into focus.
Being in a first world means we get to work on solving "first world problems". And I'm sorry, but you are the problem. You can't speak with greater authority about gender issues than someone with gender issues because you don't know anything about gender issues, so believe them when they tell you what's what.
Did you not read? I don't care if you like the cock as a dude or not. It isn't my place to decide for you or for me. The issue is it doesn't fucking matter either way.
When did it become anyone else's problem that an individual has an emotional issue? When did that become a coherent phrase that meant things?
I have problems. You have problems. People in burma have problems.
I'm not coming to you asking you to solve my insomnia, or social interaction problems, or trying to blame these things on anyone else.
I ask again, when did their individual problems become my problem? Answer? It never did. Still isn't.
I'm sorry if I'm projecting my "real life actually sucks and is very fucking hard" on you because you have had some sort of internal emotional issue like every other motherfucker in the world. Or are you projecting your preconception of me? I'm taking the literal most middle ground stance on this issue humanly possible yet you still think I'm being a bigot! I'm not. I don't care. I really don't. Sorry, but you aren't dealing with disease outside your house, or 50,000 people WITHIN YOUR OWN BORDER being violently killed in the last 5 years due to war outside your house.
edit: he he, a friend put it this way "people don't like other people for any number of reasons. If people don't like you for any reason welcome to real life"
So what is your problem, so we can tell you to suck it up and accept it, instead of allowing you to try to change it?
I'm saying change happens over time. During times of change, shit sucks.
But life sucks. Shit is way harder than any of us have it. If you have access to a computer, internet to post here, and likely an artist, you have luxaries that other people will never know.
By comparison, you don't have it hard. And I will never be able to sympathize with anyone who thinks that life when they never spend a day without a cell phone, a video game console, a roof over their head, and food on their plate can tell me that life is hard.
If you lived in any number of middle eastern countries, you'd have been killed for kissing your boyfriend (unless it was thursday lol). Deal with the motherfucker scoffing at you because you don't have it bad.
you are absolutely right, I don't have your perspective or your life experience, but Persecution is hard no matter who you are or what you're being persecuted for.. I get that. I've been shot at, I know what it's like for people not to like you.
It seems pretty straight forward:
trans·gen·der [trans-jen-der, tranz‐]
noun
1. a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.
male [meyl]
noun
1. a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces a sperm cell or male gamete.
fe·male [fee-meyl]
noun
1. a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces egg cells.
While the psycological component of this is certainly complicated the reality of what is male and what is female is pretty straight forward.
The comment on illegals was to point out that if you dont like the way you are defined then maybe the issue isnt with the definition but with your perception of how that definition pertains to you.
The panda tiger comment is simply to say that no matter how strongly someone is convinced that they are something it does not make them that thing.
I have no doubt that transgender folk are sincere and truthful in their belief that they were physically born the wrong sex, and I sympathize with them. But belief alone no matter how strong does not make them something that they are not.
I also reserve the right to change my mind on this as I have on other things before.
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Sex is immutable and defined by genetics, Gender is malleable and defined by the individual
This is reflected in the term transgender rather than the outdated transsexual
There is nothing to debate here because the people saying "a boy is a boy forever" are talking about the one small area of the issue in which they can be smugly correct, but missing the point entirely
Not to mention that a person being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with you, and by refusing to call a transwoman a woman because of a fucking chromosome you are managing to be pedantic ass and also cruelly dismissive of another human being
okay dudes, I live in the third world, people here, kids, starve to death, theres "white" market (females sold as slaves), we have companies from all over the world destroying our country and taking all our resources, I had to walk 40 blocks to work the last 3 days because the public transport system is completely collapsed. is that sort of "real life" to you Ninjai?
I certainly hope it is, and guess what, bigottry IS an important issue, and we all fight it, alongside all the other problems, because its not a "1st world issue", it is a basic concept that has to be adressed no matter how or where you live, accepting the others.
You cant tell ANYONE that they have it easy, specially since you apparently lack empathy. Discrimination based on sex, gender, wether it is a biological thing or if its a personal choice it is a "problem", not a first world problem, not a third, or fourth world problem, its an issue that touches all of mankind.
the penis=boy, vajayjay=girl paradigm belongs to a previous era, like people in the past belived that the world was flat laying on top of a giant turtle, we discovered in time that it wasnt like that. Well, sexuality is no longer a binary thing, it hasnt been for a very long time, and you should realice this, because you live in this era, having a backwards mentality is not right, not even if you shield it saying its an opinion, not even if you excuse it saying that there are bigger issues, somewhere else in the world.
PS:Im not a native english speaker so many of my thoughts actually got lost, I hope it still makes sense though.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
I'm going to avoid reading most of those posts because I don't want to get pissed off at internet friends. But I just want to say to Faded Sneakers, that for a transgendered person, there is no dishonesty in how they present themselves. What would be dishonest is for them to hide in your comfort zone instead of being who they really are.
I certainly hope it is, and guess what, bigottry IS an important issue, and we all fight it, alongside all the other problems
Dude, we're saying the same thing. Empathy or not.
I never said bigotry was only a first world issue. My whole point with that word choice is that there are bigger issues in the world that how you get off sexually.
Life and liberty cannot even be guaranteed, but individual happiness even less so.
Posts
Yeah I guess for me its... Always open. Things might change. They might not. I dont really care I guess. I'm pretty content as it is. If something happens where I start being sexual, then I guess I'm sexual and I move on from there. I guess thats why labels are ... not good in a lot of ways. Its easy to think there is something you have to live up to. Its easier to just go with it and be open to change.
Now granted, it took me a LONG time (and an awkward divorce) to become comfortable with that kind of mentality so... yeah.
Ironically, this seems like an excellent way to ensure that transgender will have a problem with you.
Twitter
To paraphrase: "I'm not racist, but..."
Fuck you.
OO OO!! CAN I PLAY!?
I don't really care, I want to talk about INVINCIBLE! Lol at motherfucking charlie brown in book 1 :P
Chain chomp doodle? Is that what you call it? and it usually does react that way when keep on touching it.
Well I mean it does have a tiny Link walking a chain chomp so
Sigh. Seriously?
If an illegal immigrant doesn't like being called an illegal immigrant they have a choice. Come into the country legally or get the law changed. This is not a commentary on whether they deserve to be in the country it is merely a statement of fact as to how they are defined based on their actions and the laws of the land.
If a panda wants to dress like a tiger and act like a tiger Im all for it. Its not hurting anyone and ultimately it doesnt effect me in any way. Just dont expect me to agree that the panda is, in actuality, a tiger.
Until science can completely add or remove an entire birth canal that is.
On a better note, I'm really enjoying This comic. It's fantastic. Everything. Somebody gimme some more of this stuff.
Man fuck wal-mart, best buy and Game stop. I don't need a fucking container to sit on my shelf, or a disc that will cease its purpose on this earth the moment it's contents are transferred to my external hard drive. I ALREADY HAVE THE GAME LEMME AT IT!!!!
God I'm bored
Not really snarky. Poorly informed, incredibly judgemental, absolutely missing the point entirely? Yes, probably.
You really are basically making a "well, it's your choice to be gay" caliber argument here. And then you followed it up with a "and if I'm drunk I'll want to fuck you, but then you've had a penis at one point and UGH HOW DARE YOU RUIN MY NIGHT LIKE THAT!" which is just... so classy.
Really, it is their choice to get their dick cut off. You could get a vagina installed on your forehead, it doesn't change your actual gender at the genetic level.
Male or female is not determined by the existence or non-existence of junk, it is decided by the motherfucking chromosomes that you are born with. PLEASE debate me on this.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html )
This is not a perfect analogy by any means, but it's certainly a lot closer than your analogy. Your analogy is closer to transvestism, which is not at all the same (and I think transgendered people would rightly be offended at the suggestion that it was).
This sort of shit is actually complicated (far, far more complicated than the simple analogy would suggest) and scientists who study this stuff for a living haven't figured it all out, in terms of how the genetics work, how the physiology works, how the psychology works, and how it all interrelates; so if you can come up with some verifiable scientific evidence that proves beyond a doubt the veracity your position, guess what: you'll probably be up for a Nobel prize, because it would be that significant an accomplishment. Go email the Karolinska Institutet and collect your 10 million krona.
I think the general feeling I've gleaned from persons involved in the issue is that, sticking purely with male sex=male gender, female sex=female as the only two distinctions possible simply is inadequate to describe the various ways the human body and brain can develop, and for those who don't fall into those categories, having those labels forced upon them is simply cruel.
This being the case, it's just a happier world for everyone if you treat people as they would like to be treated in these matters. It's not like you've got anything to lose by going around not offending people.
Also I might note (since there seems to be some kind of confusion here) that one does not BECOME transgendered as a RESULT of a sex change operation. One is BORN transgendered and may GET a sex change to bring their physical bodily aspects more in line with how their brain functions. A transgendered person is still transgendered regardless of whether they take any action to change their physical body or behavior or not. Being transgender is not simply acting out a transvestic urge through body modification, as some seem to be implying here.
(I think I'm getting all this right, but I admit I am not an expert- if someone is more informed than me, feel free to correct; the wikipedia articles on the subject tend to use a lot of big sciencey words I'm not sure I fully grasp.)
Twitter
Gender =/= Sex.
That is all I am saying, and I really hate that I even had to make this post and will not make another until this is over.
still, it really sounds to me like people are looking for an excuse for an inability to cope, and/or control their emotions.
but I'm not a goddamn scientist.
AOBacon, If you really think that striving to treat others the way they want to be treated is an achievable goal, you must be living in another plane of reality. All I can strive to do is treat people how I wish to be treated because I don't know what each individuals needs, wants, desires are. I fail at treating others how I want to be treated as it is, let alone know someone else better than myself to know how they want to be treated.
This is the shit I'm talking about.
I'm making people feel uncomfortable because I disagree with them, I feel uncomfortable when people disagree with me...
Someone is going to be offended, someone is going to disagree. It's going to fucking happen.
This coexist/ tolerance bull shit is just a platform of elitism to try and guilt people into thinking that what they believe is wrong. Have at it.
To what end?
You're tearing each other apart, Lisa!
In other news they announced they're gonna start making Kick-Ass 2 soon. I haven't seen the first one since it was in theaters but I liked it well enough. It was entertaining. I read the comic, and while the Big Daddy story was probably a bit more thought provoking in the book, I was overall more entertained by Nicolas Cage's batshit antics.
Also, shit like this: Is ridiculously self-centered, or just short-sighted. How would you like it if people insisted on labeling you as things you didn't want to be labeled as? And not petty minor things like musical tastes or your favorite class in Diablo, but fundamental elements of You like sexuality, morality, and so forth? It should not take a mighty leap in logic to suspect that hey, maybe other people also hate having that done to them.
EDIT: And because I know you'll bring it up, the brain is WAY more complicated than the rest of the body. So it's a lot easier to offer people surgery or just treat them the way they wish to be treated than to come up with a pill that changes fundamental ways they think. Not to mention there's way more ethical issues with a pill that makes you think you're something else.
youwanttotalkabout diablo?letstalkaboutdiabloiwantoplaydiablo3whatclassareyouplaying?i'mgonnaplayabarbarianthenawitchdoctor
I would agree that it is self-centered. But really what other perspective does anyone have but a self-centric perspective? Your entire life is viewed from your own eyes, and your own experiences, and my life for the last few months is struggling to try and see others perspectives.
I can respect AOBS post trying to inform and also open to learning, hell it was a great article and it's something I'm going to have to consider, but kochi and fug both "spewing insults and harassment" but also claiming immunity is just a joke.
And we're a social species, dude. Empathy is one of our greatest strengths. People are laying some wicked education on you, and I suggest you soak it up. I was thinking the same things as you not too many years ago, and I can say that it's not kosher.
The only shit I was uncomfortable with was people ganging up on an individual (not myself) for having an opinion outside their world view. I cannot and will not stand for that shit. What AOB is doing (knowledge bombs) and what has come out of other posters ("insults and harassment") are stark opposites, and I don't appreciate it.
Everything that is different or unfamiliar is uncomfortable. Cell phones to old people, as I'm sure flight or the motor vehicle were when they came about, that's why there are Amish, some people just don't adjust well. Willful surgical manipulation/mutilation is a relatively new phenomena and isn't something that a large group of people are necessarily ready for, as psychiatry was when it was being introduced, I'm sure cybernetic replacement of biological shit will be in the future.
Personally I don't care what people think or do to themselves, I'm open to the knowlege, but claiming superiority in an argument pertaining to ethics is just horse shit I'm not going to stand for. No one has the right make someone feel guilty for disagreeing with them.
Oh, you want to have a semantic discussion and also link to an internet resource?
AWESOME
gen·der
noun
1.
Grammar .
a. (in many languages) a set of classes that together include all nouns, membership in a particular class being shown by the form of the noun itself or by the form or choice of words that modify, replace, or otherwise refer to the noun, as, in English, the choice of he to replace the man, of she to replace the woman, of it to replace the table, of it or she to replace the ship. The number of genders in different languages varies from 2 to more than 20; often the classification correlates in part with sex or animateness. The most familiar sets of genders are of three classes (as masculine, feminine, and neuter in Latin and German) or of two (as common and neuter in Dutch, or masculine and feminine in French and Spanish).
b. one class of such a set.
c. such classes or sets collectively or in general.
d. membership of a word or grammatical form, or an inflectional form showing membership, in such a class.
2. sex: the feminine gender.
3.Archaic . kind, sort, or class.
Hilary duff did a thing, and ad if you will, saying "stop using the phrase 'that's so gay'. How would you feel if someone said 'that's so nerd or that's so jock or thats so valley-girl'" ....
OH WAIT THEY DO!!! NERDS GET STEREOTYPED, JOCKS GET STEREOTYPED, valley girls especially SHOULD GET STEREOTYPED why do people with alternate sexual persuasions think they're somehow immune to this!?
I have the solution, thicker skin. Instead of chopping their knobs off, just put some thick skin up on there.
The thing that gets me the most, is that these people have a 1st world problem. Regions around the world have been at war persistently for longer than anyone using this forum have been living, starvation, famine, blood, war, disease, death, things that you couldn't comprehend...
And they're more concerned with whether their emotions and sexual tendancies are being sated than struggling for motherfucking survival.
You want to talk about a selfish and self-serving mentality, you want to talk about limited perspective.... Take a look in the motherfucking mirror. Take a walk down Sangin valley in Afghanistan you yellow cowardly insecure motherfuckers. Fight to the death for a meal. For a job. For water. You have fellow human citizens at this very moment being sold into slavery, being killed for their beliefs or race around the fucking world. I dont' know what that's like, or how I'd deal with that. That is struggle. That is hardship, That is what living with problems is like. And they complain "my brain no feel good. I no happy"
And my perspective is skewed?
You can see how this is a problem for some people, right?
Saying we shouldn't try to change this because we have it great already is you projecting your position of privilege on the rest of us. You might consider it a first world problem to be transgender, but that's 'cause you don't have to deal with gender issues and your life is going relatively well in that you're accepted for who you know yourself to be.
People getting fed up with this stuff is how we make it so LGBTQ kids aren't beaten up by their parents for being who they are. I kissed my boyfriend on the shoulder outside of a movie theater this weekend and someone directly behind me scoffed and said "ugh, I don't want to see that". Like I give a damn? It's not his right to police that. The problem isn't so much that the guy was a homophobe. The problem was that he thought he was entitled for me not to be gay. As we're slowly gaining ground in LGB acceptance, the need for wider acceptance of the T is coming into focus.
Being in a first world means we get to work on solving "first world problems". And I'm sorry, but you are the problem. You can't speak with greater authority about gender issues than someone with gender issues because you don't know anything about gender issues, so believe them when they tell you what's what.
Did you not read? I don't care if you like the cock as a dude or not. It isn't my place to decide for you or for me. The issue is it doesn't fucking matter either way.
When did it become anyone else's problem that an individual has an emotional issue? When did that become a coherent phrase that meant things?
I have problems. You have problems. People in burma have problems.
I'm not coming to you asking you to solve my insomnia, or social interaction problems, or trying to blame these things on anyone else.
I ask again, when did their individual problems become my problem? Answer? It never did. Still isn't.
I'm sorry if I'm projecting my "real life actually sucks and is very fucking hard" on you because you have had some sort of internal emotional issue like every other motherfucker in the world. Or are you projecting your preconception of me? I'm taking the literal most middle ground stance on this issue humanly possible yet you still think I'm being a bigot! I'm not. I don't care. I really don't. Sorry, but you aren't dealing with disease outside your house, or 50,000 people WITHIN YOUR OWN BORDER being violently killed in the last 5 years due to war outside your house.
edit: he he, a friend put it this way "people don't like other people for any number of reasons. If people don't like you for any reason welcome to real life"
But life sucks. Shit is way harder than any of us have it. If you have access to a computer, internet to post here, and likely an artist, you have luxaries that other people will never know.
By comparison, you don't have it hard. And I will never be able to sympathize with anyone who thinks that life when they never spend a day without a cell phone, a video game console, a roof over their head, and food on their plate can tell me that life is hard.
If you lived in any number of middle eastern countries, you'd have been killed for kissing your boyfriend (unless it was thursday lol). Deal with the motherfucker scoffing at you because you don't have it bad.
you are absolutely right, I don't have your perspective or your life experience, but Persecution is hard no matter who you are or what you're being persecuted for.. I get that. I've been shot at, I know what it's like for people not to like you.
But that is life.
trans·gen·der [trans-jen-der, tranz‐]
noun
1. a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.
male [meyl]
noun
1. a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces a sperm cell or male gamete.
fe·male [fee-meyl]
noun
1. a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman.
2. an organism of the sex or sexual phase that normally produces egg cells.
While the psycological component of this is certainly complicated the reality of what is male and what is female is pretty straight forward.
The comment on illegals was to point out that if you dont like the way you are defined then maybe the issue isnt with the definition but with your perception of how that definition pertains to you.
The panda tiger comment is simply to say that no matter how strongly someone is convinced that they are something it does not make them that thing.
I have no doubt that transgender folk are sincere and truthful in their belief that they were physically born the wrong sex, and I sympathize with them. But belief alone no matter how strong does not make them something that they are not.
I also reserve the right to change my mind on this as I have on other things before.
google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SFL
...I think I don't know what SFL means.
This is reflected in the term transgender rather than the outdated transsexual
There is nothing to debate here because the people saying "a boy is a boy forever" are talking about the one small area of the issue in which they can be smugly correct, but missing the point entirely
Not to mention that a person being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with you, and by refusing to call a transwoman a woman because of a fucking chromosome you are managing to be pedantic ass and also cruelly dismissive of another human being
I certainly hope it is, and guess what, bigottry IS an important issue, and we all fight it, alongside all the other problems, because its not a "1st world issue", it is a basic concept that has to be adressed no matter how or where you live, accepting the others.
You cant tell ANYONE that they have it easy, specially since you apparently lack empathy. Discrimination based on sex, gender, wether it is a biological thing or if its a personal choice it is a "problem", not a first world problem, not a third, or fourth world problem, its an issue that touches all of mankind.
the penis=boy, vajayjay=girl paradigm belongs to a previous era, like people in the past belived that the world was flat laying on top of a giant turtle, we discovered in time that it wasnt like that. Well, sexuality is no longer a binary thing, it hasnt been for a very long time, and you should realice this, because you live in this era, having a backwards mentality is not right, not even if you shield it saying its an opinion, not even if you excuse it saying that there are bigger issues, somewhere else in the world.
PS:Im not a native english speaker so many of my thoughts actually got lost, I hope it still makes sense though.
facebook.com/LauraCatherwoodArt
I never said bigotry was only a first world issue. My whole point with that word choice is that there are bigger issues in the world that how you get off sexually.
Life and liberty cannot even be guaranteed, but individual happiness even less so.
This conversation has spiraled down to complete ridiculousness.
What's this about a turtle not holding up the Earth?!