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Sucking at RTSes
ReXX
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
...and how to overcome it.
Playing against the AI in the Command and Conquer and Supreme Commander demos had made me remember that I am really awful at strategy games. I don't seem to have any basic tactics apart from "build some random units and let them loose". How do I get better?
Playing against the AI in the Command and Conquer and Supreme Commander demos had made me remember that I am really awful at strategy games. I don't seem to have any basic tactics apart from "build some random units and let them loose". How do I get better?
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In Company of Heroes, the replays on the net are usually tournament games or pros playing, who are completely different in style. For example, most of the time they completely forsake any sort of base because they know the other person will too. All about frontlines.
Whereas in CnC and SupCom type base building games, you need to get a build order sorted and a general plan for your bases so you can get that extra speed in games, even against AI.
In other words, this is why I suck. Nobody wants to play a methodical game, it's all about what secret tactics you know and how fast you are at doing it.
Really, just keep playing, and decide what style suits you. The one thing I can say is to learn the hotkeys, if the game has them (and most of them do). Anything you can do to help you build faster is worth it.
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Macromanagement, and micromanagement. Micromanagement being able to use individual units to their maximum efficiency (ie, in Starcraft getting your Zerglings to surround a mob so they're all hitting it and it can't run away, or using various spells and such in WC3), and macromanagement (as I understood it) to be able to keep producing things while focusing on battle and such (I always hotkey my barracks-like structure - Hive in SC, Barracks in WC3, etc. - so I can try to keep troops pumping out even while I'm micromanaging my troops in the field). Granted, macromanagement mattered a lot more in Starcraft because you had a lot of units and a high unit cap.
Also, hotkeys. They're in most games: and they're useful. They can save a lot of time and misclicks. Learn your race/side/army's advantages, use them, but make sure to make counters.
Also, only play team games, because then you can always blame someone else for your suck.
I was far better (but by no means particularly good) at Dungeon Keeper and Beasts & Bumpkins, but they just felt far less panicky. The missions also seemed a lot more varied, and there was humour in the games that was never in Command and Conquer or Dune.
My strategies for Dungeon Keeper were build big, keep it simple, and find the gold. When I finished a level, I never went ahead until I had searched every inch of the map - the Transfer Creature Dungeon Special, combined with my Level 10 Vampire, was always a must-have. The Possess Spell, with solo raiding, was a useful way to get rid of the fog of war.
From what other people have said above me, my basic strategies map over to other games as well - concentrate on what units work well (Vampires for me as they could die four times at Level 10 and still come back, plus the research megabonus), build and fortify, and keep stuff efficient.
Well, if you're talking just beating the AI then it really just boils down to knowing what weaknesses the AI is going to have and exploiting the hell out of them. For example in almost every Westwood game the AI is almost never smart enough to scale their assaults to deal with large scale static defenses. Once you have some good defenses in place you've already won. It's just a matter of building your assault force and crushing them at that point since your base is no longer in any jeopardy.
Now multiplayer is another beast entirely. Personally I don't enjoy it all that much because all too often it's a rush game, something I don't really enjoy. I really like the base building aspect of RTS games. I get as much pleasure from trying to form a base perfectly to the terrain it's set in as I do from defeating an enemy. It just seems like I rarely get a chance to do that kind of thing in multiplayer.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
Pretty okay at C&C games though.
I'm gonna agree on this front. My only exception is Starcraft. Aside from that I think the entire genre is pretty lame and doesn't involve strategy or tactics so much as learning how the game works.
Actually, I do make an exception for C&C as well, just because it was so goddamn funny. Engineers, stealth tanks, FMV's, you name it. I'm looking forward to trying the C&C 3 demo as soon as I get on a decent enough internet connection to download it.
I would just say stop playing Blizzard-style RTS's and move to Myth or TA/Sup. Com. (though, due to this internet connection, I have not yet tried the latter either). Once I knew my way around the units in TA, it was never about having the best build order (after the beginning you can do whatever the hell you want), so much as locating weak points and building effective armies to hit them, and other intuitive strategic concerns, like terrain.
-build Mammoth Tanks
-build more Mammoth Tanks
-get your Mammoth Tanks the railgun upgrade
-build more Mammoth Tanks (seriously, there is no need for you to build another unit...since these are great against damn near anything)
"Lul I zerg now"
A swarm of like 30 undead dragons proceeds to attack my base.
"Lul I zerg now"
A swarm of 30 gryphon riders proceeds to attack my base.
"Lul I zerg now"
Well.. You see where this is going.
Then they proceed to insult me using broken English.
"lol u suk this. go paly cs noob"
Grrrr...
I once wrote a much longer post about this. Now to see if I can find it...
Just read the manual and learn all the keyboard shortcuts.
Also. To become good at an RTS. You actually have to study. It's odd but true.
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Generally, anyone who puts all their eggs into one basket in WC3 sucks. WC3 is like 90 percent micro/timing.
I'm more of a passive defense player so I won't attack until I'm very well good and ready. Red Alert 2 and Yuri's revenge fit my play style pretty good with all the nice defense structures and such each side got.
If you rush me early though in any RTS, you might as well throw your hands up in victory. I never got good at stopping those.
DoW, CoH being the biggest offenders.
ive been playing the CnC3 demo alot lately, and i cant wait for it. its got me really excited about rts games again because of its faster style of play.
360 Gamertag: Baronskatenbass Steam: BaronVonSnakPak HgL: AnsonLuap
I did like M.A.X.X, as little progress as I made into the damned difficult thing.
I like building the perfect base. Actually attacking the enemy? Not so much.
1. Pick a faction/race/side/team that suits your style, then watch as many replays as you can, taking note what this person did or didn't do in certain matchups. Eventually you'll get the "why" but until then, just follow the formulas the pros use.
2. Determine/research what the common rush tactics for the game you're playing are and how to stop them. This will most importantly allow you to live to the next stage of the game.
3. Spend that money! I find that most noobs are only losing because they don't know how to manage their economy properly, allowing their resources to sit in the bank all game. Resources in the bank are as useless as having no resources at all. Just mass a few of X bread and butter unit and you'll see the enemy struggling that much more to break you.
4. Be aggressive. In 95% of RTS games out there, the defensive way is the surest way to a loss. Slowly but surely the aggressive player will just overpower you with his superior economy if you sit in your starting base and don't bother to venture out and harass him/secure more resources.
5. Did I mention that you should do your research? Replays are good for finding out which units counter which, the most efficient starting builds, learning popular maps, and general "blind-timing" (the 6th sense you can develop that allows you to correctly predict what your enemy is doing, and counter it without scouting).
6. Since I mentioned scouting.. SCOUT OFTEN. Many newer players make the tunnel-vision mistake and focus solely on their base. This is no good. Scouting allows you to plan ahead and counter strategies, many times very easily. The most important resource in the game, aside from the game's ACTUAL resources, is knowledge of the enemy's movements.
7. Use those hotkeys/shortcuts! Such a time-saver, and time is a resource you have very little of in RTS games.
8. Try to play the computer opponent as little as possible and focus on the competitive player vs player aspect of it. Real people are much less predictable and you will find yourself more able to adapt than if you played the AI opponents constantly.
9. Have fun, find a good group of people to join up and play with (the Starcraft: Brood War group here in G&T is simply stellar and hella fun), and you'll worry less about winning and more about having fun.
10.
What I know from War3 though:
Micro, controlling your units actions as much as possible is much better than leaving it to auto attack at the AIs descretion.
Macro: Make sure you know about your economy, you've expanded at the right time, so forth.
Timing: Know strategies, know when the perfect time to hit is
(I tried to be as broad as I could, since War3 is... a bit unique in a lot of aspects)
360 Gamertag: Baronskatenbass Steam: BaronVonSnakPak HgL: AnsonLuap
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
Playing with PAers whenever possible will help with this.
l2p you jackwad noob
I really should try to dig out my old copies of starcraft and brood wars - i've not played them in years.
I think I'm going to concentrate on the faster paced games like Starcraft, C&C, and DoW - for some reason Supreme Commander seems totally overwhelming and yet really slow at the same time.