One thing the fanfiction lacks compared to the game - like, this stands out most for me - is emotional resonance.
"Hey. It's all right."
"I just miss them so much."
Dang! Even thinking about that turian security guard and that colonist girl
Get all these feelings
Marauder Shields is silly fanfiction that focuses on the big picture so much that it misses how the game - the series, but ME3 in particular - gained its power from the little things.
They could've gone with an extremely pat, generic ending, and it would've been better recieved. What Bio failed to realize was that the revolutionary thing was that that the trilogy exists in its current form at all, not that the ending will blow our minds.
EDIT: RE: Marauder Shields:
Are you suggesting that Cerberus's actions make a lot of sense in the normal game? They're nuts. The writing is all over the place on them in the third game: they're abducting colonies and sometimes taking official stances against it (the Firebase Ghost map mission, for example) but also attempting to abduct whole colonies with no mention of their "official" stance (From Ashes mission) and also experimenting with husks and indoctrination on civilians (Sanctuary). In James Vega's backstory, we even have Cerberus working WITH the Collectors. If anything, Marauder Shields tries to make some sort of sense of all the ridiculous threads regarding Cerberus that are strung throughout the game.
Well, my theory is that people think that the pat, generic ending would have been better received, but that it actually wouldn't have been. That, of course, is unfalsifiable so I don't expect to be able to convince people of that. The reason I believe this is that as I was playing the ending, I began being afraid that it would end right at the moment. I was thinking to myself, "I bet it ends right now. That's why everyone hates it!". Then it didn't, and I became confused.
As for Marauder Shields, Cerberus is definitely crazy in the game. My concern is that Marauder Shields is making it sound (to me at least), like they're actually still with the good guys. They're talking about all these failsafes and such that don't even make any sense.
Say what? I thought the single panel about Cerberus in the Marauder Shields comic made heap loads more sense than what Bioware put in the games... am I missing something? I admit that I'm not following Marauder Sheilds as closely as I was, but that's not because it's gone particularly off the rails, just that it's gotten kind of boring.
aye, I think it's okay, but tbh I only really look at it when people mention it in this thread.
The reveal in 21 falls way too heavily into typical fan fiction territory.
Yeah. I figured out who it was really early on, but the way it "worked" was silly.
I'm basically beating a dead horse by bringing it up in the first place. I just wanted to see if it was still being held up as an awesome alternate ending, or if the ending rage calming down has resulted in a similar lack of interest in placing alternate endings on pedestals.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Writing fan fiction is fine, trying to compare your fan fiction to someone elses commercial success is a bit much. "Man the three people who read my blog agree I'm a better writer than stephen King."
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Bah, you guys just don't understand the artistic vision of all these fanfictions.
It's Thursday and I still don't have my Eagle pack. If it's true that the host needs to have stat tracking enabled for everyone else to get automatic credit, then that's twice as stupid.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
As someone who was very much itno fanfiction as a teen I'm not saying all fanfic are bad also as someone who reads quite a bit not all published authors are instantly good.
What I'm saying is that sometimes when something stinks it stinks even if you happened to find it at the city dump.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Writing fan fiction is fine, trying to compare your fan fiction to someone elses commercial success is a bit much. "Man the three people who read my blog agree I'm a better writer than stephen King."
Let me introduce you to an incredibly popular and commercially successful fan fiction: Wicked, meet Preacher. Preacher, Wicked. I'll give you two a chance to get acquainted.
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Yeah... many writers and artists have done a fair bit of fanfictiony stuff, and I'm not sure who/how Tal even came to that conclusion about the comic's credibility. Does he say that in the comments or his blog posts or something? IDK. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who does the MS comic gets some kind of small gig on something else out of the publicity and all.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Writing fan fiction is fine, trying to compare your fan fiction to someone elses commercial success is a bit much. "Man the three people who read my blog agree I'm a better writer than stephen King."
Let me introduce you to an incredibly popular and commercially successful fan fiction: Wicked, meet Preacher. Preacher, Wicked. I'll give you two a chance to get acquainted.
Say what? I thought the single panel about Cerberus in the Marauder Shields comic made heap loads more sense than what Bioware put in the games... am I missing something? I admit that I'm not following Marauder Sheilds as closely as I was, but that's not because it's gone particularly off the rails, just that it's gotten kind of boring.
aye, I think it's okay, but tbh I only really look at it when people mention it in this thread.
The reveal in 21 falls way too heavily into typical fan fiction territory.
True.
I was hoping it was just a random Marauder that inhaled Thorian spores on Feros, which broke its indoctrination. The series rather unceremoniously dropped the Thorian as a main plot and never gave it as much credit as it deserved.
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Yeah... many writers and artists have done a fair bit of fanfictiony stuff, and I'm not sure who/how Tal even came to that conclusion about the comic's credibility. Does he say that in the comments or his blog posts or something? IDK. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who does the MS comic gets some kind of small gig on something else out of the publicity and all.
mostly the big TAKE BACK MASS EFFECT 3 blurbs posted at the bottom of every comic
50 Shades of Grey is fanfic of Twilight. That shit is tearing up the sales charts. So, um, I think Shields is what it is and consumers/fans have to decide if it is worth the investment.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited May 2012
Well...Twilight is pretty much bad mary-sue fanfiction itself.
50 Shades of Grey is fanfic of Twilight. That shit is tearing up the sales charts. So, um, I think Shields is what it is and consumers/fans have to decide if it is worth the investment.
lol, I actually googled that because I thought you were BSing...
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Yeah... many writers and artists have done a fair bit of fanfictiony stuff, and I'm not sure who/how Tal even came to that conclusion about the comic's credibility. Does he say that in the comments or his blog posts or something? IDK. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who does the MS comic gets some kind of small gig on something else out of the publicity and all.
mostly the big TAKE BACK MASS EFFECT 3 blurbs posted at the bottom of every comic
I see... I guess I just don't have the same level of emotional attachment to the series as you do or something, idk.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I maintain that the true tragedy of the ending is how it makes people think their fanfiction gains credibility
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
Writing fan fiction is fine, trying to compare your fan fiction to someone elses commercial success is a bit much. "Man the three people who read my blog agree I'm a better writer than stephen King."
Let me introduce you to an incredibly popular and commercially successful fan fiction: Wicked, meet Preacher. Preacher, Wicked. I'll give you two a chance to get acquainted.
This wicked? Because thats pretty far from what most people would consider fan fiction.
I guess it boils down to how you define fan fiction. That author is doing what what some really good fan fiction authors do: Taking a story and reimagining it or recasting it in a different light or from a different perspective. You, and others, seem to the that the definition of "fan fiction" is "poorly written", but I think the only real definition that has any meaning is that a writer is taking characters and worlds created by someone else, and writing stories around that. Basically that is what Gregory Maguire does, except he recieves acclaim for it. To be fair he is very, very good at it (I loved Wicked), but that doesn't change the fact that it is, at it's heart, fan fiction.
Cambiata on
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
That 50 Shades crap is amazing though. This stuff might not be that good, but if we continue to want Bioware to make good on the promise of the choices in ME, they are going to have to do better than they did in ME3. If we get closure/resolution then we wouldn't need that in fanfic and we could focus all the fanfic adoration on crazy Tali and Garrus love stories.
Also, why I am I arguing for fanfic? Help me....
0
DeadfallI don't think you realize just how rich he is.In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered Userregular
I like Marauder Shields because I think it's pretty.
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
There was no fiction Pulitzer this year.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
I've read fan fiction that is better written than published fiction. Even good published fiction. Granted this is not the majority of fan fiction, but as we know 95% of everything is crap. And for all the hate towards Marauder Shields, I defy you to find an official Mass Effect comic that is anywhere near as good.
The 'fan' part only implies to me that you are a fan of the world you're writing about. You like or are interested in the world enough to add to it with your own story. I would think that MacGuire was interested in the characters and background he used for Wicked, otherwise why choose those characters and background to write with?
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
I've read fan fiction that is better written than published fiction. Even good published fiction. Granted this is not the majority of fan fiction, but as we know 95% of everything is crap. And for all the hate towards Marauder Shields, I defy you to find an official Mass Effect comic that is anywhere near as good.
The 'fan' part only implies to me that you are a fan of the world you're writing about. You like or are interested in the world enough to add to it with your own story. I would think that MacGuire was interested in the characters and background he used for Wicked, otherwise why choose those characters and background to write with?
The art is pretty, but honestly, I'd put the Marauder Shields comic at around the same level as the official Mass Effect Comics.
It's had a few moments, but the vast majority at best did not reasonate and at worst I found actively bad.
But its worst offense is that he continues to paste that stupid Take Back Mass Effect slogan at the bottom.
You won! They're giving you what you asked for! Now shut about it!
There are plenty of published authors that got their start in (and still write!) fanfiction. The author of Feed and Deadline is still big in the Buffy fanfic community. You can merge "literary desire" and "adoration", you know, so there's no reason that fanfiction can't be good.
Personally, I don't like fanfiction much, but I acknowledge that some of it is excellently written and sometimes more true to the spirit of the characters than some officially written source materials (so many authors go through official projects, and so many of them are just guns for hire looking for a paycheck, and so many producers are stressed about deadlines and not all that concerned about narrative continuity that plenty of crap gets through (anyone remember the Voyager episode, "Threshold"?).
Point is, Marauder Shields is telling a story that the actual authors of the series glossed over at a time when glossing over was absolutely the last thing we wanted. Honestly, I expected them to do it right, after how great the finale of ME2 was.
I thought the finale on Earth would be the Suicide Mission writ large, with every character and race getting a moment to shine, if Shepard gave them the "you're up" phone call.
So yeah, I appreciate Marauder Shields for what it's trying to do. I felt extremely let down by the real ending, which was confusing and brief and not at all what the series had trained me to expect.
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
By that definition, a fanfiction won the pulitzer.
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
So now I'm curious where something like this dragon age comic (link below) falls in the "fanfiction is bad" spectrum. It's entirely visuallized and drawn by a well know Dragon Age fan artist, Aimo. The text is by David Gaider, so the text is "official" Bioware, and the art is "fan made." Is the fan made part bad, just because it's fan made?
Wyborn leaned back from the computer monitor, exasperation washing over him like a tepid breeze. It was nearly midnight and the pale fluorescence of the screen eroded his calm like the sands of time. Sands trapped in an hourglass of annoyance, held in the skeletal hand of Death himself as he patiently stalked his prey. Wyborn was clever, he would not take up arms in another internet argument this night. This night he chose to live!
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Having read a shitload of Daria fanfiction back in the day
Wyborn leaned back from the computer monitor, exasperation washing over him like a tepid breeze. It was nearly midnight and the pale fluorescence of the screen eroded his calm like the sands of time. Sands trapped in an hourglass of annoyance, held in the skeletal hand of Death himself as he patiently stalked his prey. Wyborn was clever, he would not take up arms in another internet argument this night. This night he chose to live!
You are ruining it
You are ruining everything
Fuck this shit, he thought, going back to watching his anime. He'd rather pound his dick with a meat tenderizer than read more of The_Scarab's fanfic. In fact, maybe he'd just write some himself. Something about Commander Groose...
To be continued
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
To not be hyperbolic, fan fiction in general is awful because a lot of people that write it (the vast majority of them) aren't effective writers.
Yet.
Every "how to write" bit of advice I've seen basically says "write lots. Write more. Keep writing. About anything at all." And in the process, there will be a lot of dross. But occasionally, there'll be the gem. Maybe it's just a particular word choice, a sentence, a paragraph, or story.
But with time, as the writer's skills get better, the quality of the writing (and hopefully the stories) improves.
Fan fiction gives them an already realized universe and set of characters to play with, rather than having to come up with their own. This lowers the barriers to entry for writing; suddenly you aren't doing worldbuilding as well as writing, you can think of how to slot into existing plots, etc.
The same goes for art.
You don't go from drawing stick figures to putting out artwork people will pay big bucks for overnight, and existing art styles, scenes, and characters give you a basis for rendering your own interpretations that maybe weren't realized in the actual movie/game/whatever.
And that's why so much fan fiction and fan art is terrible.
But at the same time, it's scratching an itch for these people, and some of them will eventually produce some amazing things. Others will do it for a time and tire of it.
Either way, because it's a learning experience, it's going to be 99% shit.
Fan art and fan fiction occupy very different creative spaces, though. Unless the artist is creating sequential art of their own creation, they don't actually gain anything by working with original designs a opposed to pre-existing ones interpreted according to their own style.
Writing your own fiction requires a set of muscles that fan fiction very rarely flexes.
Posts
"Hey. It's all right."
"I just miss them so much."
Dang! Even thinking about that turian security guard and that colonist girl
Get all these feelings
Marauder Shields is silly fanfiction that focuses on the big picture so much that it misses how the game - the series, but ME3 in particular - gained its power from the little things.
because there's no convenient third party to blame
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Well, my theory is that people think that the pat, generic ending would have been better received, but that it actually wouldn't have been. That, of course, is unfalsifiable so I don't expect to be able to convince people of that. The reason I believe this is that as I was playing the ending, I began being afraid that it would end right at the moment. I was thinking to myself, "I bet it ends right now. That's why everyone hates it!". Then it didn't, and I became confused.
As for Marauder Shields, Cerberus is definitely crazy in the game. My concern is that Marauder Shields is making it sound (to me at least), like they're actually still with the good guys. They're talking about all these failsafes and such that don't even make any sense.
Yeah. I figured out who it was really early on, but the way it "worked" was silly.
I'm basically beating a dead horse by bringing it up in the first place. I just wanted to see if it was still being held up as an awesome alternate ending, or if the ending rage calming down has resulted in a similar lack of interest in placing alternate endings on pedestals.
Taky claimed to have got his start writing fanfiction. Ergo: Your smugness is goosey.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
Writing fan fiction is fine, trying to compare your fan fiction to someone elses commercial success is a bit much. "Man the three people who read my blog agree I'm a better writer than stephen King."
pleasepaypreacher.net
It's Thursday and I still don't have my Eagle pack. If it's true that the host needs to have stat tracking enabled for everyone else to get automatic credit, then that's twice as stupid.
What I'm saying is that sometimes when something stinks it stinks even if you happened to find it at the city dump.
Let me introduce you to an incredibly popular and commercially successful fan fiction: Wicked, meet Preacher. Preacher, Wicked. I'll give you two a chance to get acquainted.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
he's not a professional fanfiction writer now, is he
(it's because fanfiction is bad)
Yeah... many writers and artists have done a fair bit of fanfictiony stuff, and I'm not sure who/how Tal even came to that conclusion about the comic's credibility. Does he say that in the comments or his blog posts or something? IDK. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who does the MS comic gets some kind of small gig on something else out of the publicity and all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked:_The_Life_and_Times_of_the_Wicked_Witch_of_the_West
This wicked? Because thats pretty far from what most people would consider fan fiction.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This has been a Tal opinion
True.
mostly the big TAKE BACK MASS EFFECT 3 blurbs posted at the bottom of every comic
Ba-dum-phish.
lol, I actually googled that because I thought you were BSing...
I see... I guess I just don't have the same level of emotional attachment to the series as you do or something, idk.
I guess it boils down to how you define fan fiction. That author is doing what what some really good fan fiction authors do: Taking a story and reimagining it or recasting it in a different light or from a different perspective. You, and others, seem to the that the definition of "fan fiction" is "poorly written", but I think the only real definition that has any meaning is that a writer is taking characters and worlds created by someone else, and writing stories around that. Basically that is what Gregory Maguire does, except he recieves acclaim for it. To be fair he is very, very good at it (I loved Wicked), but that doesn't change the fact that it is, at it's heart, fan fiction.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I think poor writing quality is an intrinsic defining quality of fan fiction. The 'fan' modifier implies it is written by someone out of adoration, not literary desire.
Also, why I am I arguing for fanfic? Help me....
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
There was no fiction Pulitzer this year.
I've read fan fiction that is better written than published fiction. Even good published fiction. Granted this is not the majority of fan fiction, but as we know 95% of everything is crap. And for all the hate towards Marauder Shields, I defy you to find an official Mass Effect comic that is anywhere near as good.
The 'fan' part only implies to me that you are a fan of the world you're writing about. You like or are interested in the world enough to add to it with your own story. I would think that MacGuire was interested in the characters and background he used for Wicked, otherwise why choose those characters and background to write with?
On my sleeve, let the runway start
Yeah, that's the main reason I'm still reading it.
Recall, I'm one of the people who actually kind of liked the ending of ME3. It wasn't stellar, but it gave me what I needed.
The art is pretty, but honestly, I'd put the Marauder Shields comic at around the same level as the official Mass Effect Comics.
It's had a few moments, but the vast majority at best did not reasonate and at worst I found actively bad.
But its worst offense is that he continues to paste that stupid Take Back Mass Effect slogan at the bottom.
You won! They're giving you what you asked for! Now shut about it!
pleasepaypreacher.net
God I love that meme picture, that kid looks so angry so so angry.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Personally, I don't like fanfiction much, but I acknowledge that some of it is excellently written and sometimes more true to the spirit of the characters than some officially written source materials (so many authors go through official projects, and so many of them are just guns for hire looking for a paycheck, and so many producers are stressed about deadlines and not all that concerned about narrative continuity that plenty of crap gets through (anyone remember the Voyager episode, "Threshold"?).
Point is, Marauder Shields is telling a story that the actual authors of the series glossed over at a time when glossing over was absolutely the last thing we wanted. Honestly, I expected them to do it right, after how great the finale of ME2 was.
So yeah, I appreciate Marauder Shields for what it's trying to do. I felt extremely let down by the real ending, which was confusing and brief and not at all what the series had trained me to expect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_(novel)
Don't tempt me. I'm crazy you know. I'd do it.
This was six years ago! And is it really fanfi-
You know what
Nevermind
(Spoilers for Dragon Age: Origins)
http://blog.bioware.com/2010/03/01/dragon-age-the-revelation-comic/
For the record I'll say that for me personally, if Bioware always used Aimo to draw their comics, I'd find them far more compelling.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
fan fiction is by definition terrible
worse than the pictures in my sig
You are ruining it
You are ruining everything
To be continued
Yet.
Every "how to write" bit of advice I've seen basically says "write lots. Write more. Keep writing. About anything at all." And in the process, there will be a lot of dross. But occasionally, there'll be the gem. Maybe it's just a particular word choice, a sentence, a paragraph, or story.
But with time, as the writer's skills get better, the quality of the writing (and hopefully the stories) improves.
Fan fiction gives them an already realized universe and set of characters to play with, rather than having to come up with their own. This lowers the barriers to entry for writing; suddenly you aren't doing worldbuilding as well as writing, you can think of how to slot into existing plots, etc.
The same goes for art.
You don't go from drawing stick figures to putting out artwork people will pay big bucks for overnight, and existing art styles, scenes, and characters give you a basis for rendering your own interpretations that maybe weren't realized in the actual movie/game/whatever.
And that's why so much fan fiction and fan art is terrible.
But at the same time, it's scratching an itch for these people, and some of them will eventually produce some amazing things. Others will do it for a time and tire of it.
Either way, because it's a learning experience, it's going to be 99% shit.
Writing your own fiction requires a set of muscles that fan fiction very rarely flexes.