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[PA Comic] Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - Betwixt

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited May 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
«1345

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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    I spend more time trying to figure out the best infographical display method than anything else

    it's super important!

    3196386402_01d8d12017_z.jpg

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    "dutiful, terrified coupling" is pretty great

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    FalxFalx Registered User regular
    I think I'm the only person who played and loved both Diablo 1 and 2 to death... but doesn't even have the slightest desire to play 3. I wish I knew why that was.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Never played Diablo 1 or 2, but after a few hours of 3 I'm wondering if it was overhyped, or if the really good stuff comes later. Sure, roaming around and clicking things to collect gold and loots is fun enough, and it's a professionally polished presentation, but after seeing how breathlessly everyone was standing around waiting for the game to release, I was expecting something more.

    Also, regarding the comic, it was only down for an hour?

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I really love what this comic is expressing.

    Last night was retarded-time for the internet.

    Henroid on
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    FulgoreFulgore Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Henroid wrote: »
    I really love what this comic is expressing.

    Last night was retarded-time for the internet.

    I agree with you highly.
    I played both Diablo 1 and 2 as a kid, loved them both very much and Diablo 3 really brings it to me by how it feels polished graphically and it kept impacting me nostalgically in nice, light amounts.

    Maybe I just love the genre a lot, who knows.

    Fulgore on
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Never played Diablo 1 or 2, but after a few hours of 3 I'm wondering if it was overhyped, or if the really good stuff comes later. Sure, roaming around and clicking things to collect gold and loots is fun enough, and it's a professionally polished presentation, but after seeing how breathlessly everyone was standing around waiting for the game to release, I was expecting something more.

    Also, regarding the comic, it was only down for an hour?

    I've also never played a Diablo game and, looking from a distance, I don't see the appeal

    I played Torchlight for like an hour or two and got bored and never touched it again

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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I played Diablo 2 to near-completion in act V once. I never got the appeal of running it multiple times or making hardcore runs, as there was nothing special in the loot I could see.

    WoW, being a Diablo clone at its core, held me for 6 years... Stupid being able to talk to people while playing.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Diablo is very much nostalgia time for me. Running it on play station with a friend was still some of the best times I can remember from back when.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Bears are so scary.

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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    Scooter wrote: »
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Never played Diablo 1 or 2, but after a few hours of 3 I'm wondering if it was overhyped, or if the really good stuff comes later. Sure, roaming around and clicking things to collect gold and loots is fun enough, and it's a professionally polished presentation, but after seeing how breathlessly everyone was standing around waiting for the game to release, I was expecting something more.

    Also, regarding the comic, it was only down for an hour?

    I've also never played a Diablo game and, looking from a distance, I don't see the appeal

    I played Torchlight for like an hour or two and got bored and never touched it again

    same

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    NewtronNewtron Registered User regular
    ahhh, the sin of long server down time.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I've really gotta get around to finding a new host for my images for my Diablo Lets Play. Though I'd still have to manually go through each episode to fix them.

    And as much as I loved Diablo 2, at this point, I kinda hate the game because of the buggy mess and general "play this spec or you're fucked" design it has. I tolerated it before, but now I don't have time for that shit.

    Not that it matters. Diablo 3 is out now, and I can't play it yet, but I'm sure I'll play the everloving shit out of it.

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    MaigaardMaigaard Registered User regular
    Ten minutes/10 minutes
    What a nice little detail.

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    AurichAurich ArizonaRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I've really gotta get around to finding a new host for my images for my Diablo Lets Play. Though I'd still have to manually go through each episode to fix them.

    And as much as I loved Diablo 2, at this point, I kinda hate the game because of the buggy mess and general "play this spec or you're fucked" design it has. I tolerated it before, but now I don't have time for that shit.
    It's not really that bad. That is, I've never actually followed any build guides, so maybe I just don't know what a solid build feels like, but I'd been doing fine just picking things that are cool/fun and at least moderately useful.

    And man, Diablo III... I adored one and two when I was a kid, but I had no enthusiasm for three. I just kind of ended up with a copy on launch night and had nothing else to do, so I went for it, and by the end of Act 1 I was all in. I can't overstate how all in I am. This comic was pretty much me, except the whole chart would be "think about playing Diablo III for an hour."

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    Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku LondonRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I can understand why looking in you wouldn't be able to see the appeal - you just have to play it.

    I guarantee that after the first time you let loose your mighty Barbarian on the despicable hordes: *WHAM...BAM...CRASH...SPLAATTTTT* You'll be in love.

    Blizzard just got the feel right. Otherwise it's very much a standard ARPG, polished to hell.

    Jimmy Marku on
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    CandymancerCandymancer Registered User regular
    While the launch may be terrible, at least you can always take comfort in knowing you made it to best buy and back without being mauled by bears.

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    SchmulkiSchmulki Registered User regular
    Anyone who expects any major launch like this to go well on day 1 gets what they deserve. I fully expected and planned for there to be outages like this on day 1 (hell, week 1) and have taken it all in stride. Has it meant I haven't been able to play a couple of times? Sure. So, I did the non-joke version of that pie chart and did things I wanted to get done, so when the server was back up, I could devote time to the game.

    This country/world really is filled with far too many cry-babies who, if they don't get their bottle the second they want it, throw a hissy fit. Just because you wanted to have paid $60 to have a game that works perfectly day 1 doesn't mean that's what you realistically purchased. It's like the people who are complaining that it's online-only. What did you think you purchased?


    All that said, what I've played of the game so far (most of the way through act 2) has scratched my diablo itch nicely. It's using a different back-scratcher and it makes me reach over my shoulder instead of under and around my back, and I sort of have to scratch side to side instead, but it does the job well.

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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Falx wrote: »
    I think I'm the only person who played and loved both Diablo 1 and 2 to death... but doesn't even have the slightest desire to play 3. I wish I knew why that was.

    Because you're a soulless robot - cells before circuits - get out of this thread. ;)
    Actually, for me it is a reverse. I had no desire to play Diablo I + II - but I have an absolute blast with DIII. Everything missing from the previous iterations (impact, fun skills, variation, experimentation) is combined in there.

    Dratatoo on
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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    Reading around, it’s clear that one needs to phrase their dissatisfaction in these matters in a very specific way. This is one of the stranger new Universals, by which I mean things All Right-Thinking People Believe; things like China Miéville Is An Enjoyable Read. Before you can say that you’re unhappy about something you bought not working, you have to make the parenthetical case that you’re above the whole fray, and it can work or not work, it’s all so droll; you can’t imply that any of it matters because that would mean you weren’t concerned with matters of global import.
    kinda want to kiss tycho right nowwww

    You could be anywhere
    On the black screen
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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Schmulki wrote: »
    Anyone who expects any major launch like this to go well on day 1 gets what they deserve. I fully expected and planned for there to be outages like this on day 1 (hell, week 1) and have taken it all in stride. Has it meant I haven't been able to play a couple of times? Sure. So, I did the non-joke version of that pie chart and did things I wanted to get done, so when the server was back up, I could devote time to the game.

    This country/world really is filled with far too many cry-babies who, if they don't get their bottle the second they want it, throw a hissy fit. Just because you wanted to have paid $60 to have a game that works perfectly day 1 doesn't mean that's what you realistically purchased. It's like the people who are complaining that it's online-only. What did you think you purchased?


    All that said, what I've played of the game so far (most of the way through act 2) has scratched my diablo itch nicely. It's using a different back-scratcher and it makes me reach over my shoulder instead of under and around my back, and I sort of have to scratch side to side instead, but it does the job well.
    The issue is this didn't have to happen because if they hadn't required everyone to be connected always people could just play single player.
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Bears are so scary.
    Robert+Eringer_cute_bear_fight.jpg
    they know Kung-Fu

    Neaden on
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I don't own Diablo 3 and I may never do so, but I appreciate Tycho's rant terrifically.

    No, people are not being "whiny, entitled gamers" when they are concerned that the $60 product that they bought cannot be used. Are people's knee-jerk reactions to what they perceive as whiny entitlement so engrained that they think this kind of thing is cool from a corporation? I guess the real problem is that people are so in love with certain titles, that they will still buy them even knowing that the company making it can't get their shit together enough to make it work on day one.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    Schmulki wrote: »
    Anyone who expects any major launch like this to go well on day 1 gets what they deserve. I fully expected and planned for there to be outages like this on day 1 (hell, week 1) and have taken it all in stride. Has it meant I haven't been able to play a couple of times? Sure. So, I did the non-joke version of that pie chart and did things I wanted to get done, so when the server was back up, I could devote time to the game.

    This country/world really is filled with far too many cry-babies who, if they don't get their bottle the second they want it, throw a hissy fit. Just because you wanted to have paid $60 to have a game that works perfectly day 1 doesn't mean that's what you realistically purchased. It's like the people who are complaining that it's online-only. What did you think you purchased?


    All that said, what I've played of the game so far (most of the way through act 2) has scratched my diablo itch nicely. It's using a different back-scratcher and it makes me reach over my shoulder instead of under and around my back, and I sort of have to scratch side to side instead, but it does the job well.
    The issue is this didn't have to happen because if they hadn't required everyone to be connected always people could just play single player.
    [/quote]

    also, i don't think it's unreasonable to expect that something you paid for should work. hell, if i paid $60 of my hard earned dolla dolla bills for a thingamabob because Acme Co. advertised it as something that could do Ability X, the thingamabob damn better be able to do X. if it could not, by design or by systematic, and not accidental, failures in design, i'd have a case for fraud, restitution, etc.

    for some reason, people are becoming more willing to accept crap like Blizzard's, EA's, and others' mea culpas. yeah, software has bugs, we get that. but something that prevents people from entirely playing a game they paid money for is far more than a bug. that's veering towards unacceptable behavior.

    the problem with this whole argument is that it is overwhelmed by more unreasonable arguments of entitlement and drowned out by the screams of the worst of the internet.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Schmulki wrote: »
    Anyone who expects any major launch like this to go well on day 1 gets what they deserve. I fully expected and planned for there to be outages like this on day 1 (hell, week 1) and have taken it all in stride. Has it meant I haven't been able to play a couple of times? Sure. So, I did the non-joke version of that pie chart and did things I wanted to get done, so when the server was back up, I could devote time to the game.

    This country/world really is filled with far too many cry-babies who, if they don't get their bottle the second they want it, throw a hissy fit. Just because you wanted to have paid $60 to have a game that works perfectly day 1 doesn't mean that's what you realistically purchased. It's like the people who are complaining that it's online-only. What did you think you purchased?


    All that said, what I've played of the game so far (most of the way through act 2) has scratched my diablo itch nicely. It's using a different back-scratcher and it makes me reach over my shoulder instead of under and around my back, and I sort of have to scratch side to side instead, but it does the job well.

    There are way too many limp-dicked pissants that worship their favorite game developers and can forgive any misstep. It's this bullshit forgiving attitude that allowed the "ship now-patch later" attitude to propagate. You know what entitled me to be able play the game yesterday? One hundred dollars. Why am I upset? Because this is a company with no excuse for this sort of bed shitting, a company that spent years "polishing" this game, pushing it back "until it was ready". And they were NOT ready. This is a company that has faced this problem before, and has implemented working (though not always optimal) solutions, but chose not to this time. And this is a company that has already released a game in the series that had features that would have made yesterday's problems invisible. So if they're going to do something like remove LAN play "to improve the game experience", they'd damn well make sure the alternative doesn't keep me from playing the game. Yeah, I expected the game to work when they said it would. I bet $100 on it. And they fucked up.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Can you imagine another industry where not being able to play it the day you bought it would be ok?

    "Well you didn't expect to drive that car the same day you bought it, did you? Right off the lot? You crazy or something?"
    "Well you didn't think you'd get to listen to that MP3 the same day you bought it, did you?"
    "You're crazy if you expected to be able to read that book on release day after you paid full price for it! Whiners."
    "Oh here we go with our entitled culture, people buying TVs and expecting to watch them the same day! What babies."

    I mean can you imagine the hububb there would be if say the Amazon Kindle wouldn't let you read books you downloaded right away? Like if that were a "feature" of Kindles since their inception? How lond do you suppose the Kindle would have lasted as a product if that were the case?

    Cambiata on
    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Assuming the people who are chill about it being down are "limp-dicked pissants who worship [Blizzard]" is just as bad as assuming the people who are against it are "super-entitled whiny babies."

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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    We have a waiting period for guns to make sure the buyers aren't crazed killing machines

    We do the same thing with games but then give the psychopaths the goods anyway

    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Assuming the people who are chill about it being down are "limp-dicked pissants who worship [Blizzard]" is just as bad as assuming the people who are against it are "super-entitled whiny babies."

    Yeah, I was aiming for a rough inverse.

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    BuchoBucho One careful pwner Registered User regular
    Schmulki wrote: »
    Has it meant I haven't been able to play a couple of times? Sure.

    Do I love it when people interview themselves on message boards? Absolutely.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    There's two behaviors I want to point out here that are probably clinically insane.

    1) People taking time off work, or losing sleep, for the sake of a video game that will be there if they followed their schedule accordingly in the first place.
    2) Reacting as if they were robbed due to day one being a mess. These people are very much playing the game and have been, and will be tomorrow. So that reaction looks awfully silly.

    I get being upset when things go wrong, but my god people have no perspective in life.

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    SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    madpoet, I can't tell if that is supposed to be a parody or not. God I hope it is.

    Did you pay $100 specifically to play the game yesterday, or just to play the game period? Because if it's the latter, I'm having a hard time seeing what you "lost". If you assume you were going to play 100 hours of the game, did losing out on playing yesterday mean you will only play for 100 - X hours of downtime? More likely you are still going to play 100 hours, but it gets shifted X hours into the future. Instead of putting the game down on say June 1st, you end up playing until June 2nd instead.

    As far as I can tell, the only thing you lost was your plans for yesterday...which doesn't seem like a big deal unless you have a terminal disease and only weeks to live.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Well to the people who are saying "You can still play the game, only later!", supposing every gamer took that to heart, and decided to never again buy a video game unless it had been out for 3 months, thereby bypassing the unpreparedness of game companies. Do you think the games industry would continue to exist?

    I mean I get that some people are perhaps overreacting. But I find the idea of giving money for a service or product, and being told by the person I paid that "Oh, you'll get the product eventually" more than distasteful; it borders on fraudulent. Now allow me to again reiterate that I do not play Diablo and I probably never will. I couldn't care less if Blizzard never fixes the game and goes down in a ball of flames themselves. But not holding companies accountable because - what? We, as gamers, have choosen a bad hobby? You know, people are allowed to have hobbies that are different from yours. And people are allowed to put in more attention to their hobby than you perhaps have time for. It doesn't make you a better person, and it doesn't make them deserving of being treated like chumps by the companies that provide the grist for the hobby.

    Cambiata on
    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Well to the people who are saying "You can still play the game, only later!", supposing every gamer took that to heart, and decided to never again buy a video game unless it had been out for 3 months, thereby bypassing the unpreparedness of game companies. Do you think the games industry would continue to exist?

    Congratulations, you missed the point entirely. But I'll entertain this post and read the rest.
    Cambiata wrote: »
    I mean I get that some people are perhaps overreacting. But I find the idea of giving money for a service or product, and being told by the person I paid that "Oh, you'll get the product eventually" more than distasteful; it borders on fraudulent. Now allow me to again reiterate that I do not play Diablo and I probably never will. I couldn't care less if Blizzard never fixes the game and goes down in a ball of flames themselves. But not holding companies accountable because - what? We, as gamers, have choosen a bad hobby? You know, people are allowed to have hobbies that are different from yours. And people are allowed to put in more attention to their hobby than you perhaps have time for. It doesn't make you a better person, and it doesn't make them deserving of being treated like chumps by the companies that provide the grist for the hobby.

    There's holding them responsible, and then there's the insane rhetoric of, "I PAID FOR THIS PRODUCT I EXPECT TO USE IT." How about, "Hey, Blizzard, this really blows so try to fix it will you?" Elevating it to the levels it was at was, again, ridiculous.

    I'm going through a lot of financial and living situation hoopla right now, hand in hand with my parents, so when I see people on the internet lose their shit about a $60 game to this degree makes me feel like they have shit for perspective, shit to do with themselves and their lives. "THIS FUCKING THING DOESNT WORK, I HAVE NO OTHER HOBBIES OR BOOKS OR TV TO CARRY ME OVER FOR THE SHORT TERM." It's not even a month, it was a fucking day. Don't tell me about being slighted by a company, or paying for something and being let down, or some sort of contract being breached and how much it sucks. Because I will trump all that shit with my situation about losing the house we're in and the circus around it. I don't want to fucking hear it. You have your game, you couldn't play for 24 hours, boo fucking hoo. I want to play Diablo 3, but I have a bunch of shit to handle. I don't even have the opportunity to be pissed off at not being able to play the game through no fault of my own? DO YOU GET IT?

    And send your bitching posts to Blizzard's consumer channels instead of thinking they read stuff here! YES you have valid points, so put it where the company in question can fucking see it! FUCK.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Tycho wrote:
    There isn’t a list of things that we have to worry about in order. We can decide on a case by case basis whether or not something is bullshit, and then we can feel some way about it, and we don’t need to wait for a transmission from central command to know if we’ve paid in enough psychic penance to enjoy something.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Like, I get that paying too much for internet, or someone mugging me for $25, or buying a shirt and having it fall apart in the wash after wearing it once is not on level with me losing my ability to pay rent and ending up homeless. I get there are degrees to which something is bullshit. But don't tell me that "Well, the thing you're experiencing isn't as bad as some other experience, so you're not allowed to complain about it", because that is goosery.

    (again, though, I'm not personally experiencing it myself. I am just baffled at the, "Loan big corporations your money for a little while! You don't really expect a product in return, do you? How greedy!" attitude)

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    It's not about not complaining, it's about the rhetoric behind the complaining.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Henroid wrote: »
    It's not about not complaining, it's about the rhetoric behind the complaining.

    Well granted I've only seen the rhetoric in this particular, along with Tycho's rhetoric, and those sources seem pretty reasonable. I guess there's some outside source you're reacting to and complaining about here... but having said that, your own reactionary rhetoric is pretty over-the-top.

    Cambiata on
    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    It's not about not complaining, it's about the rhetoric behind the complaining.

    Well granted I've only seen the rhetoric in this particular, along with Tycho's rhetoric, and those sources seem pretty reasonable. I guess there's some outside source you're reacting to and complaining about here... but having said that, your own reactionary rhetoric is pretty over-the-top.

    And I'm really fighting against it being worse right now. Sometimes I don't get people, and maybe I'm more chilled and relaxed on some fronts than others are, but the instant-gratification thing we have beaten into us is something I've learned to push away. Especially when you add up all the pieces together. In this case, the Diablo games have always been good (even if I consider 2 to have aged poorly). The company behind the games, and the company behind part 3 (c wut i did thar) have very good track records. Have things been weird the last few years because video games are a business now and some bad things happen? Yes. But the good things still happen too for the most part. A lot of the reaction has treated Blizzard like some entity that has suddenly jumped the shark, and it hasn't. It has followed the course of the industry, it has continued to do what it does best and deliver (whether it be passable, good, great, or perfect is up to you - the point is it's positive deliveries), and for a hiccup in a game's launch to suddenly turn the company's history into a big re-write of negative shit is odd behavior.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I agree that two many people, particularly in gaming, should learn to put off their desires, and I include myself in that. But for me, putting off your desires in this context means not buying the game on release day. That's what I think gamers should do. If the industry really always makes it such that your game is not actually ready on the day it's released, then the intelligent, pro-consumer move is to not buy the product until you're sure that it is ready. Not perfect, mind you, just playable. So maybe some people are whining particularly loudly right now; those people are still going to buy the next thing Blizzard poops out, and they're going to buy it at release. As a step towards delaying desires, I hope this even has caused some people to be disillusioned enough that they won't buy the next game they want right at release. But I doubt that'll actually happen, and that's where the real problem is.

    Also, my point about your rhetoric is that despite the important issues affecting your life right now, you can still find the rage to get angry at internet commentators. Doesn't that put you in the same boat - or perhaps into an even more shameful boat, an ignominy dinghy, if you will - as the people who are raging about Blizzard? At least they are raging about money they paid out for something that they feel they didn't get. You're just raging at people raging.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    The issue is this didn't have to happen because if they hadn't required everyone to be connected always people could just play single player.

    Pretty much.

    NNID: Rehab0
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