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[TRENCHES] Tuesday, May 22, 2012 - Valkyrie

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited May 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
Valkyrie


Valkyrie
http://trenchescomic.com/comic/post/valkyrie

The Conclusion

Anonymous

While still in school studying video game art, my first art “opportunity” was to work for a small startup doing concept work and graphic design. The only problem was, I was inexperienced, and neither of my two supervisors were art directors. Despite being promised equity in the company, there was no contract signed, and no pay discussed; the “opportunity” to be showcased and have a shipped game was to be my reward. My first lesson was bound to be one I’d never forget.

I worked on artwork, balancing another full-time job and a full-time college schedule, even drawing on my breaks at work. Largely at times I felt lost and further confused by the vague shrugs my bosses sent my way. After six months with no deadlines of any kind in sight, one of the instructors at my college suggested I request a contract from said company, or at the very least a letter of recommendation.

I received a long-winded, angry reply. I still have the email, parts of which read:

“While some of you concept art is presentable, it’s just that. Presentable. When we agreed to offer you equity in the company, we originally had much higher expectations from you, and what we came to see was something a little less than what we expected. Well, here’s the honest part: A LOT LESS. You’re a student. You have a VERY long way to go. That’s God’s honest truth. That’s why you’re an intern. That’s why you’re not getting paid.  If you can find a company that’s willing to pay you for the quality of art that you’re producing, then I STRONGLY encourage you to take that job because we’re not going to pay you for anything.

I know one of your complaints was that there was a lack of art direction. Well, that’s because we don’t have an art director. Justin is the closest thing you’re going to have to an art director, like it or not.  But know this: I cannot, and will not, write you a recommendation that you would want to show anyone, until you wade through the mud with us - and hey, the rain hasn’t even started coming down hard yet.  To be honest, it hasn’t even started sprinkling outside.”

Stunned by this, I consulted my instructor, but no less than 5 hours later I received another email, complete with a letter of recommendation damning me with faint praise.

“I haven’t heard back from you in regards to the email I sent, which really bums me out.  I take that as you want to quit.  If that’s the case, then here’s the letter you’re seeking.  Take care and good luck.”

The studio folded a mere 3 months later.


Geth on

Posts

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I could see where that story was going in the opening paragraph, but damn that email was cruel. D:

    Liking Isaac's face in the last panel.

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ that quote from the email. D:

  • This content has been removed.

  • ApolloinApolloin Registered User regular
    I guess we found out why Cora keeps getting fired and rehired. I guess next week she'll come into work as Dora. ;)

    As for the Tale... Wow...

  • IvarIvar Oslo, NorwayRegistered User regular
    Apolloin wrote: »
    I guess we found out why Cora keeps getting fired and rehired. I guess next week she'll come into work as Dora. ;)

    As for the Tale... Wow...

    Have we ever been led to believe that she's been fired, and not just that her contract for the previous project expired?

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

    I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion Isaac is drawing. It's what I understood as well.

  • SticksSticks I'd rather be in bed.Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

    I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion Isaac is drawing. It's what I understood as well.

    I took it more as "I'm on the team that wouldn't pull that sort of shit in the first place." I'm not sure how leaking that information really helps anyone.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

    I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion Isaac is drawing. It's what I understood as well.

    At first I thought Isaac was just nonplussed by her fervent devotion to the playerbase, but it seems like an overreaction for that. I am pretty sure what we're supposed to take from it is that he thinks she's the mole.

  • jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    Sticks wrote: »
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

    I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion Isaac is drawing. It's what I understood as well.

    I took it more as "I'm on the team that wouldn't pull that sort of shit in the first place." I'm not sure how leaking that information really helps anyone.

    It would keep people from wasting time grinding when it will just get rolled back.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Sticks wrote: »
    Sticks wrote: »
    Yea, not seeing how she would be fired as a result of this....unless you think she is the mole?

    I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion Isaac is drawing. It's what I understood as well.

    I took it more as "I'm on the team that wouldn't pull that sort of shit in the first place." I'm not sure how leaking that information really helps anyone.

    Rebound effect. Your team doesn't want to take care of an issue, in this case that the team either missed or noticed bugs but left them unreported for "personal gain", so if you reveal the issue to the public the public rebounds the issue back at the team and then the team has to react to it in some fashion. Also, despite Q's obsession with the IP, and Isaac's advanced degrees, Cora is pretty obviously the better tester and more responsible one

  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    There are some companies that you just don't want equity in.

    It's good for our protagonist that they opened some dialogue with his superiors after being confused by their feedback.

    This is something I am STILL trying to get better at in my job: asking for feedback semi-regularly. If you're doing work and aren't getting any useful feedback, you need to ask for it. Because there are really three kinds of feedback:

    1) overwhelmingly positive -you don't need to stress about how your work is being received for a while
    2) mixed- you're doing some good things and some not-as-good things, and you need to know which is which
    3) poor- You're doing something really wrong and nobody is bothering to tell you.

    Not getting 1) is fine, though people are usually pretty forthcoming when you're knocking it out of the park. Not getting the other kinds of feedback is bad, especially when you don't pipe up and ask how you're doing, only to find out you've been doing some things crappily for the past year or two and need to dig yourself out of a hole you didn't know existed.

    El Skid on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    There are some companies that you just don't want equity in.

    It's good for our protagonist that they opened some dialogue with his superiors after being confused by their feedback.

    This is something I am STILL trying to get better at in my job: asking for feedback semi-regularly. If you're doing work and aren't getting any useful feedback, you need to ask for it. Because there are really three kinds of feedback:

    1) overwhelmingly positive -you don't need to stress about how your work is being received for a while
    2) mixed- you're doing some good things and some not-as-good things, and you need to know which is which
    3) poor- You're doing something really wrong and nobody is bothering to tell you.

    Not getting 1) is fine, though people are usually pretty forthcoming when you're knocking it out of the park. Not getting the other kinds of feedback is bad, especially when you don't pipe up and ask how you're doing, only to find out you've been doing some things crappily for the past year or two and need to dig yourself out of a hole you didn't know existed.

    Numbers one and three really seem like the same thing, in my experience. I've interviewed plenty of end users regarding services and platforms where they'll say everything is fine, then we'll get forwarded an email or two from their managers/directors/etc where the same person says everything is terrible. Just saying, getting direct feedback from people tends to be a crapshoot. :P

    I think there's more to the tale than we have too, one of the key things being how/what was said when the guy asked for a contract or recommendation. One of the yellow flags that I saw in the email quote is "one of your complaints", which suggests to me at least that the tone of the request was probably not the best.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    There are some companies that you just don't want equity in.

    It's good for our protagonist that they opened some dialogue with his superiors after being confused by their feedback.

    This is something I am STILL trying to get better at in my job: asking for feedback semi-regularly. If you're doing work and aren't getting any useful feedback, you need to ask for it. Because there are really three kinds of feedback:

    1) overwhelmingly positive -you don't need to stress about how your work is being received for a while
    2) mixed- you're doing some good things and some not-as-good things, and you need to know which is which
    3) poor- You're doing something really wrong and nobody is bothering to tell you.

    Not getting 1) is fine, though people are usually pretty forthcoming when you're knocking it out of the park. Not getting the other kinds of feedback is bad, especially when you don't pipe up and ask how you're doing, only to find out you've been doing some things crappily for the past year or two and need to dig yourself out of a hole you didn't know existed.

    Numbers one and three really seem like the same thing, in my experience. I've interviewed plenty of end users regarding services and platforms where they'll say everything is fine, then we'll get forwarded an email or two from their managers/directors/etc where the same person says everything is terrible. Just saying, getting direct feedback from people tends to be a crapshoot. :P

    I think there's more to the tale than we have too, one of the key things being how/what was said when the guy asked for a contract or recommendation. One of the yellow flags that I saw in the email quote is "one of your complaints", which suggests to me at least that the tone of the request was probably not the best.

    No, it was "I know one of your complaints was" - i.e. he would raise this problem at the job, not in the request.

    fwKS7.png?1
  • ApolloinApolloin Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Ivar wrote: »
    Apolloin wrote: »
    I guess we found out why Cora keeps getting fired and rehired. I guess next week she'll come into work as Dora. ;)

    As for the Tale... Wow...

    Have we ever been led to believe that she's been fired, and not just that her contract for the previous project expired?

    Well, no actually we haven't - but the whole 'incrementing your name by one letter' thing worked from Cora to Dora so I just thought I'd run with it. ;)

    I think we're supposed to assume that Cora is the mole, right? She seemed pretty appalled at Isaac's behaviour (I somehow missed that he used to be a Dev himself and thought he was some kind of asshole stockbroker - probably because I've known too many Devs to associate sports cars with them) despite the fact that he really is under no obligation to test and report whilst on leave. I've known some info get leaked as a result of idealistic team members getting caught up in this idea that 'the fans need to know' in the past.

    Offering Equity used to be the big 'thing' back in the nineties/noughties as far as I remember. I personally preferred money and loot in that order. Sony used to gift employees with neat gadgets on an adhoc basis, especially around Christmas and not only did that make us all grin and be happy but it built company spirit. The one place that gave Equity folded a year or so later and only a few of us had managed to unload our equity before it became hamster cage lining.

    Apolloin on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    kaliyama wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    There are some companies that you just don't want equity in.

    It's good for our protagonist that they opened some dialogue with his superiors after being confused by their feedback.

    This is something I am STILL trying to get better at in my job: asking for feedback semi-regularly. If you're doing work and aren't getting any useful feedback, you need to ask for it. Because there are really three kinds of feedback:

    1) overwhelmingly positive -you don't need to stress about how your work is being received for a while
    2) mixed- you're doing some good things and some not-as-good things, and you need to know which is which
    3) poor- You're doing something really wrong and nobody is bothering to tell you.

    Not getting 1) is fine, though people are usually pretty forthcoming when you're knocking it out of the park. Not getting the other kinds of feedback is bad, especially when you don't pipe up and ask how you're doing, only to find out you've been doing some things crappily for the past year or two and need to dig yourself out of a hole you didn't know existed.

    Numbers one and three really seem like the same thing, in my experience. I've interviewed plenty of end users regarding services and platforms where they'll say everything is fine, then we'll get forwarded an email or two from their managers/directors/etc where the same person says everything is terrible. Just saying, getting direct feedback from people tends to be a crapshoot. :P

    I think there's more to the tale than we have too, one of the key things being how/what was said when the guy asked for a contract or recommendation. One of the yellow flags that I saw in the email quote is "one of your complaints", which suggests to me at least that the tone of the request was probably not the best.

    No, it was "I know one of your complaints was" - i.e. he would raise this problem at the job, not in the request.

    Eh, to me if a person is vocal enough about their complaints (whether or not it was in the workplace is unknown and it'd arguably be worse if it was on the job) that their boss would address it like that, then it stands to reason that said grievances are going to show up either passive aggressively or directly in the request. A "pay me or give me a recommendation" message already comes across to me by default as "pay me or I'll leave," not the best path for an intern to take. but like I said, we don't know all the facts and the circumstances don't make it seem to me like the dude's response was entirely irrational, even if it leans toward unprofessional for sure.

    both parties made kinda go D:, is all.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • SiscomanSiscoman LA, CA, USARegistered User new member
    *Gasp* She's the mole!

  • Svenne345Svenne345 Treasure Hider Registered User regular
    Siscoman wrote: »
    *Gasp* She's the mole!

    Maybe she's the mole for Mr. Toots, which is the mole for the director!

    MULTI-MOLES!


    Svenne345.jpg
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    I'm very glad my university bothered to tell us in year one that no matter what you do, you get a contract before you start or you don't lift a pen. Basically, everyone should watch this:

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Holy shit that email.

    488W936.png
  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Having worked for a number of 'entrepreneurs' on my way up the development ladder, I can say that while that e-mail is a sterling example of some of the behavior small business owners exhibit, it's not atypical.

    There are some people who are born for biz, and there are a lot more who get so stressed out and obsessed with the importance of their own idea that they fold in on themselves, like a collapsing star, and become empathy black holes.

    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
  • ApolloinApolloin Registered User regular
    First, that video should be required learning for any creative type working as a freelancer.

    Second, Doctor Tran speaks the truth. In the Industry it often happens that skilled creative types manage to get the cash to start a studio. These are somtimes awesomesauce but can easily also be incredibly drama-filled vanity presses.

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