I don't want "social" gaming and I don't want Miis. Miis are ugly and are just a gimmick. I don't care if a bunch of bobble-heads with "different expressions" are making poorly spelled twits about some game - that is not an experience-enhancing feature.
No, give me improved and versatile online multiplayer and great games to play online. That's the kind of social gaming I am interested in. We'll see on Tuesday - this didn't put me off but it did not excite me either.
Miis a gimmick? They're just avatars.
Also, explain improved and versatile. The ability to post, message, and write to people of a specific game that you're playing, almost like Steam groups, is pretty great.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I don't want "social" gaming and I don't want Miis. Miis are ugly and are just a gimmick. I don't care if a bunch of bobble-heads with "different expressions" are making poorly spelled twits about some game - that is not an experience-enhancing feature.
No, give me improved and versatile online multiplayer and great games to play online. That's the kind of social gaming I am interested in. We'll see on Tuesday - this didn't put me off but it did not excite me either.
Miis a gimmick? They're just avatars.
Also, explain improved and versatile. The ability to post, message, and write to people of a specific game that you're playing, almost like Steam groups, is pretty great.
Don't forget the ability to surprise someone with genitals behind a curtain!
Seriously, Miis are my favorite version of a console avatar. They are cute, and my Mii rules in Mario Kart.
That does sound nice, Sporky, but it all depends on that big "if" of whether it's actually heavily-supported
And if it's not a pack-in...I don't know, I want to be proven wrong on this because I would love to see the traditional controller make a comeback on a Nintendo platform
Everyone that enjoys Assassin's Creed and Super Meat Boy, two games that depend very heavily on the RT+A combination, pick up your 360 controller right now. Press down the trigger, then place your thumb on the controller just below where the right analog stick is. They just prevented the dreaded "claw hand"
Note the button layout on the CC; assuming Nintendo stick with 'A' as the primary control (which, well, you'd expect!), it's to the *right* of the stick, rather than *below* it. The hand posture still feels good, but not quite as good as it would if it was as you're describing.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Does Non-Specific Actionfigure come with a Wii U?
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
By the way, now that Nintendo unveiled a standard "hardcore" gamer controller, are people - especially third party devs - going to shut the fuck up now?
By the way, now that Nintendo unveiled a standard "hardcore" gamer controller, are people - especially third party devs - going to shut the fuck up now?
shut the fuck up about what? the wii had exactly the same, their complaints will not change because circumstances have not changed.
By the way, now that Nintendo unveiled a standard "hardcore" gamer controller, are people - especially third party devs - going to shut the fuck up now?
No
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. I don't really think a controller was if the problem.
Hell, as far as "hardcore" games go, I know a lot of people who would have preferred playing stuff like shooters on the Wii.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Of course they won't, Henroid. See above, after all.
The Wii U tablet controller == The Wii U Classic Controller Pro ~= the Wii Classic Controller pro ~= The Wii Classic Controller.
These control schemes exist, and have always been here. 3rd parties will continue to complain until they get something like UE4 on the system so that they can save money through middleware.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
By the way, now that Nintendo unveiled a standard "hardcore" gamer controller, are people - especially third party devs - going to shut the fuck up now?
shut the fuck up about what? the wii had exactly the same, their complaints will not change because circumstances have not changed.
I didn't know the Wii had such a thing. But I'llbite - What will the complaints focus on then?
That does sound nice, Sporky, but it all depends on that big "if" of whether it's actually heavily-supported
And if it's not a pack-in...I don't know, I want to be proven wrong on this because I would love to see the traditional controller make a comeback on a Nintendo platform
Everyone that enjoys Assassin's Creed and Super Meat Boy, two games that depend very heavily on the RT+A combination, pick up your 360 controller right now. Press down the trigger, then place your thumb on the controller just below where the right analog stick is. They just prevented the dreaded "claw hand"
Note the button layout on the CC; assuming Nintendo stick with 'A' as the primary control (which, well, you'd expect!), it's to the *right* of the stick, rather than *below* it. The hand posture still feels good, but not quite as good as it would if it was as you're describing.
I really don't think third-party games would change their whole button scheme around
Just transpose the four-button layout over the Wii U's existing buttons, just like they do with PS3/360
Really not getting why people are saying 'now Nintendo has a controller for hardcore games'. The gamepad is already a regular controller which people say works fine despite looking like it would be uncomfortable. It's mostly for multiplayer as a few people have said.
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The Wiimote is a better FPS controller than the PS3 pad or XBox 360 pad (try Metroid Prime 3 if you don't think so), but the Wii's GameCube+ processing power was less than appealing to third parties.
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The Wiimote is a better FPS controller than the PS3 pad or XBox 360 pad (try Metroid Prime 3 if you don't think so), but the Wii's GameCube+ processing power was less than appealing to third parties.
Really not getting why people are saying 'now Nintendo has a controller for hardcore games'. The gamepad is already a regular controller which people say works fine despite looking like it would be uncomfortable. It's mostly for multiplayer as a few people have said.
Reasonable people know this.
Angry people need a similar shape in front of them. They are T-rexes in that way.
Metroid Prime 3 gets a lot of undeserved praise for its controls: the reason it works so well is that it relies on lock on mechanics as a crutch. Which is fine in and of itself, but as a "see the Wiimote is great for FPSes, the other Wii developers are just lazy" argument it falls flat.
Metroid Prime 3 gets a lot of undeserved praise for its controls: the reason it works so well is that it relies on lock on mechanics as a crutch. Which is fine in and of itself, but as a "see the Wiimote is great for FPSes, the other Wii developers are just lazy" argument it falls flat.
Metroid Prime 3 gets a lot of undeserved praise for its controls: the reason it works so well is that it relies on lock on mechanics as a crutch. Which is fine in and of itself, but as a "see the Wiimote is great for FPSes, the other Wii developers are just lazy" argument it falls flat.
Because auto-aim doesn't exist elsewhere.
Yeah that's clearly the same thing.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Metroid Prime 3 gets a lot of undeserved praise for its controls: the reason it works so well is that it relies on lock on mechanics as a crutch. Which is fine in and of itself, but as a "see the Wiimote is great for FPSes, the other Wii developers are just lazy" argument it falls flat.
Because auto-aim doesn't exist elsewhere.
Yeah that's clearly the same thing.
Well if we're going to talk about crutches, which implies a lack of "true" control in a game, why not? If it's not a mouse and keyboard it's a baby game and gets too much praise!
Or maybe designing a game around control considerations shows saavy attitude.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
By the way, now that Nintendo unveiled a standard "hardcore" gamer controller, are people - especially third party devs - going to shut the fuck up now?
shut the fuck up about what? the wii had exactly the same, their complaints will not change because circumstances have not changed.
Yeah, I loved the classic controller but let's get real for a moment here and remember that it wasn't perfect. The first and most important problem with the CC was that it wasn't compatible in all games. You wanted to play NSMBWii? You needed a wiimote, even if IMO there was not a single thing in that game even remotely requiring a wiimote at all - but thems the breaks. In fact, I see this as Nintendo shooting themselves in their foot entirely, because does this mean we'll get games with entirely different control schemes requiring multiple different kinds of peripherals? Will I need Wiimotes+Nunchuck for this game? Will I need a pro controller for this game? Considering all three console manufacturers love gouging the living fuck out of consumers in prices for extra peripherals, I am hardly going to get excited about this.
Personally though, I like the idea of the tablet screen but I just don't see how this is going to be effectively used. Like with motion controls, I'm just not excited about having this extra thing in front of me that I either have to watch or fiddle with when required. For example, people have been spooging about the fact that this could allow seamless inventory but I am thinking more "In a game like Devil May Cry where seconds reaction times matter on high difficulties, how on earth is looking AWAY from the screen to fiddle with inventory controls going to be better for the game?". I like the idea of sticking a map or similar on there of course, but how it actually is supposed to interact with gameplay to do something genuinely novel? Not seeing it yet - but Nintendo will lead the way as always. Probably while everyone else just half-asses the entire thing and probably has several confusing different control schemes or controller requirements.
I honestly see the Wii U being a complete disaster in the making here from third party developers. A novel a new control scheme for a home console? Check. Multiple entirely different controllers providing different levels of preferences and even entirely different control methods (traditional, touch and motion controls). Check. Third parties being their usual selves and just porting existing 360/PS3 games, without really making novel experiences made from the ground up with Wii U in mind? Check. People are joking about bingo here, but I've already hit my "This is what I didn't want to hear about the Wii U" bingo already. I will say I found it very frustrating to find a game which, IMO, didn't require any motion controls to do anything it was doing yet deny me use of the classic controller. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother playing more than world 2 in NSMBWii, despite the fact I think it's an indisputably excellent game. It just didn't use a controller I paid for and really wanted to use.
I'd love to be wrong, because despite what some idiots who want Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft to fail think, the better competition is will make better games (and a wider variety of games). I just can't help but feel we'll end up with a Wii like situation, where third party developers just mangle the system and half-ass in things like motion or touch controls at the detriment of the games. Meanwhile Nintendo has to keep making incredibly novel and quality software like Zelda, Mario and such forth keeping them afloat with nothing much outside of that. Of course I will say what saved my Wii from the dust it had gathered was Monster Hunter Tri. What a fabulous, fabulous game that was and I loved it. The game also came bundled with a "pro" controller and used it entirely (you did need a Wiimote IIRC to navigate things like inventory). Probably why I liked it - it was a game that didn't bother using anything to do (much) of the "new control scheme" nintendo introduced.
Personally speaking generally on this E3, I want to see motion controlled shit die in a fire. I want Nintendo to show Zelda, Mario and their other awesome (I am certain) games that will use the touch screen (which I am excited to see how they use it). I want Sony to bring out some new IPs, drop the price on the vita and hit hard with some good software. I want Microsoft to actually do the complete opposite of their absolutely terrible presentations from the previous 2+ years now (which I know, is asking a lot). I don't want to see motion controlled garbage in the Wii-U games, I don't want Sony to mention the move at all really (just let it die) and I don't want Microsoft to try ramming down my throat a ton of new incredibly awful kinect games. I'll grant Microsoft has produced the only motion controlled game I've ever played outside of "lightgun" rail shooters (EG Umbrella Chronicles) that I felt was worth anything: Dance Central.
But outside of that Kinect has to be even worse than the Wii in terms of tacked on or plain horrible motion controlled schemes. The true magic of kinect is that it can turn almost any decent idea into complete shit. The only exception is dance central, but that's because the game uses the technology almost perfectly. It's little wonder that everyone outside of that has failed dramatically and while widely derided, the dancing minigame in Star Wars kinect is the only good thing about it. Just imagine how bad the rest of that game is in comparison when that awful dance stuff is the best thing in the game. Just imagine*.
I don't mean to be so negative, but I'm really concerned that Nintendo are falling into the same trap they did with the Wii, Sony are going to commit suicide by sinking the vita and Microsoft are going to show us magical dash board updates and some garbage kinect games. I guess I just don't see what there is to be excited about in terms of these conferences. I really want to see what Microsoft/Sony are doing next generation and what the price of the Wii U (and peripherals) will be.
*Alternatively you've actually played the game and therefore you don't have to imagine. You know.
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Nintendo forced the simplest control scheme they could with their games to cater to the casual crowd who didn't buy the advanced control sets. I don't think they're doing that this time around, considering the tablet is a 360 with a screen strapped to the middle. As for second screen functionality? At default, it will show the Miiverse social interactions down there, so developers can completely ignore it and still have it function.
And I love motion controlled stuff, if done well. It isn't going away - videos like that Leap video show that is the future we are heading to, once people figure out proper feedback mechanisms.
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I have been throwing this idea around in my head for a while now,
A Crystal Chronicles sort of four-player dungeon crawler, and the Wii-U tablet displays a map that everyone can go back and reference, make notes on, pass around, etc. It seems like it would be fun.
Or perhaps we can have a home version of Pacman Vs.! A game where one player holds the tablet and sends waves of troops at the other player as if playing an RTS, who plays on the big screen in a hack'n'slash style game!
I think there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with the WiiU. If the Wii is any indication, a lot of those really cool things will not be done.
Yeah, I loved the classic controller but let's get real for a moment here and remember that it wasn't perfect. The first and most important problem with the CC was that it wasn't compatible in all games. You wanted to play NSMBWii? You needed a wiimote, even if IMO there was not a single thing in that game even remotely requiring a wiimote at all - but thems the breaks. In fact, I see this as Nintendo shooting themselves in their foot entirely, because does this mean we'll get games with entirely different control schemes requiring multiple different kinds of peripherals? Will I need Wiimotes+Nunchuck for this game? Will I need a pro controller for this game? Considering all three console manufacturers love gouging the living fuck out of consumers in prices for extra peripherals, I am hardly going to get excited about this.
This is really overstating the "problems."
No games will require the pro controller and not the touch pad controller, because the touch pad controller has all the same buttons as the pro controller. It is literally the same controller. This is not analogous to Wii remote vs. CC at all.
The Wii remote + nunchuck is primarily there for backward compatibility. All focus will be on the new controller for the foreseeable future, especially considering that WiiU will finally be getting ports from the other consoles that require all the buttons of the touch pad controller.
Personally though, I like the idea of the tablet screen but I just don't see how this is going to be effectively used. Like with motion controls, I'm just not excited about having this extra thing in front of me that I either have to watch or fiddle with when required. For example, people have been spooging about the fact that this could allow seamless inventory but I am thinking more "In a game like Devil May Cry where seconds reaction times matter on high difficulties, how on earth is looking AWAY from the screen to fiddle with inventory controls going to be better for the game?". I like the idea of sticking a map or similar on there of course, but how it actually is supposed to interact with gameplay to do something genuinely novel? Not seeing it yet - but Nintendo will lead the way as always. Probably while everyone else just half-asses the entire thing and probably has several confusing different control schemes or controller requirements.
I don't know a lot about DMC. Does it have an inventory? How do you usually manage it? Do you pause and go to a different screen, or do you cycle between things with L/R? If L/R, why would we assume you can no longer do that? If you have to pause the game to fiddle with the inventory, how is that not equally as jarring to you and your combo? Do we have any reason to assume devs will take out the ability to adjust your inventory while the game is paused? Isn't one major advantage simply the ability to drag things around instead of nudging a cursor around?
The inventory idea that everyone likes is for Zelda-style games, Diablo-style games. You have to match up the concept with the controller. Maybe DMC is so frantic that there is no good use for the tablet, in which case they'll leave up a default feed of other people's comments saying "man this game is hard." And that's fine. Not all genres fit the pad perfectly, just like not all genres fit motion control perfectly.
It's easy to come up with something that doesn't sound fun, but it's a manufactured concern with no grounding in reality.
Here are some random ideas for pad use in frantic games where looking down might be difficult:
- Giant buttons that are easy to hit. Most recently seen in SSF4 3DS and Mario Tennis 3DS. Just some extra shortcuts that don't take precision to use. Certainly a giant pause button is easier to hit during a frantic moment than the start button.
- Directional swipes wouldn't be too hard either - if the player has a shuriken sub-weapon, they don't have to switch to it, they can just swipe in any direction at any time to toss one out, without even changing the direction their character is facing. You don't want a major focus on this sort of control but I don't think it'd be too bad as an option.
- If it's a game ported from another platform, include a new mechanic on the pad that rewards the player if they have the dexterity to deal with it in addition to the base game. Otherwise it's no great loss, same game as on the other platforms if you choose not to deal with it. Some kind of colored orb matching thing that gives you a damage buff, for example.
- Keep the stupid blood and haze effects from being hurt off of the main screen and instead show damage by tinted/pulsating light coming off the controller screen that's easy enough to pick up in peripheral vision. Reinforces the idea that YOU have been hurt, and not "ahh there's sauce dripping onto my eyes?!"
- Nothing at all. I think everyone will understand why you've just got a logo there if your game is really frantic. Of course you'll be implementing pad support at other times, just not during the fast gameplay.
Yeah, I loved the classic controller but let's get real for a moment here and remember that it wasn't perfect. The first and most important problem with the CC was that it wasn't compatible in all games. You wanted to play NSMBWii? You needed a wiimote, even if IMO there was not a single thing in that game even remotely requiring a wiimote at all - but thems the breaks. In fact, I see this as Nintendo shooting themselves in their foot entirely, because does this mean we'll get games with entirely different control schemes requiring multiple different kinds of peripherals? Will I need Wiimotes+Nunchuck for this game? Will I need a pro controller for this game? Considering all three console manufacturers love gouging the living fuck out of consumers in prices for extra peripherals, I am hardly going to get excited about this.
This is really overstating the "problems."
No games will require the pro controller and not the touch pad controller, because the touch pad controller has all the same buttons as the pro controller. It is literally the same controller. This is not analogous to Wii remote vs. CC at all.
The Wii remote + nunchuck is primarily there for backward compatibility. All focus will be on the new controller for the foreseeable future, especially considering that WiiU will finally be getting ports from the other consoles that require all the buttons of the touch pad controller.
Personally though, I like the idea of the tablet screen but I just don't see how this is going to be effectively used. Like with motion controls, I'm just not excited about having this extra thing in front of me that I either have to watch or fiddle with when required. For example, people have been spooging about the fact that this could allow seamless inventory but I am thinking more "In a game like Devil May Cry where seconds reaction times matter on high difficulties, how on earth is looking AWAY from the screen to fiddle with inventory controls going to be better for the game?". I like the idea of sticking a map or similar on there of course, but how it actually is supposed to interact with gameplay to do something genuinely novel? Not seeing it yet - but Nintendo will lead the way as always. Probably while everyone else just half-asses the entire thing and probably has several confusing different control schemes or controller requirements.
I don't know a lot about DMC. Does it have an inventory? How do you usually manage it? Do you pause and go to a different screen, or do you cycle between things with L/R? If L/R, why would we assume you can no longer do that? If you have to pause the game to fiddle with the inventory, how is that not equally as jarring to you and your combo? Do we have any reason to assume devs will take out the ability to adjust your inventory while the game is paused? Isn't one major advantage simply the ability to drag things around instead of nudging a cursor around?
The inventory idea that everyone likes is for Zelda-style games, Diablo-style games. You have to match up the concept with the controller. Maybe DMC is so frantic that there is no good use for the tablet, in which case they'll leave up a default feed of other people's comments saying "man this game is hard." And that's fine. Not all genres fit the pad perfectly, just like not all genres fit motion control perfectly.
It's easy to come up with something that doesn't sound fun, but it's a manufactured concern with no grounding in reality.
It's been a while since I've played the Devil May Cry games, but in Bayonetta you had two weapon loadouts that switched with a button. I would love it if I had access to any variety of loadout on the touch screen with the switch button acting like "previous weapon" that you get in Valve's games and others.
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Really, I think they are going in the wrong direction with this whole tablet thing. They should have focused more on improving the motion controls.
When Nintendo went to third parties and asked what it would take to get their support for a new console, do you think the third parties said they wanted improved motion controls? I'd expect them to say they'd support it if it was HD and had the same buttons and sticks as the other guys to make porting easy, and I'd find it hard to argue against them, since consoles' fortunes rise and fall on third party support. Nintendo can do alright on their own, but it means the difference between PS2's staying power and the Wii petering out these last two years.
Games supporting entirely different peripherals (or not supporting them) on a game by game basis is a "problem". You can pretend otehrwise, but I'll just ignore you on that.
No games will require the pro controller and not the touch pad controller, because the touch pad controller has all the same buttons as the pro controller. It is literally the same controller. This is not analogous to Wii remote vs. CC at all.
I am not convinced. You can CLAIM this if you like Sporky, but I am not convinced there will be games with incompatible peripheral requirements between the Wiimote, Tablet Controller and Pro-Controller (with in my expectation, the pro-controller being shafted the most regularly). Past history is against you on this point, but we'll see if they learned anything or not.
The Wii remote + nunchuck is primarily there for backward compatibility. All focus will be on the new controller for the foreseeable future, especially considering that WiiU will finally be getting ports from the other consoles that require all the buttons of the touch pad controller.
I hope so as well and I hope that the Wiimote and motion control waggle half-assed control schemes die with the Wiimote. I have no complaint if every game uses the touch pad controller and can use the pro controller as a secondary option. That is my ideal scenario.
The moment I learn they are going to have some fiasco with Tablet controllers only/Wiimote only nonsense I'm done with them again for next generation. Fool me once etc.
I don't know a lot about DMC. Does it have an inventory? How do you usually manage it?
Pausing the game and using it, which can mean life or death in many cases. Unless done extremely well, if you take your eyes off what you're doing and miss a critical monsters tell you'll be dead before having your inventory on a separate screen is useful. If you have to pause the game to use the screen, there is no advantage: That is the point. In a slower paced game it could be really good, but then I'm not worried about pausing the game to fiddle with inventory then either. I'm just not really seeing the advantage.
It's easy to come up with something that doesn't sound fun, but it's a manufactured concern with no grounding in reality.
You'd almost think I'm basing this on years of watching third party developers release tons of shovelware and games with half-assed tacked on motion controls on the wii. But that never happened at all apparently!
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I like Miis on the 3DS, however, and look forward to them on the Wii U
Miis a gimmick? They're just avatars.
Also, explain improved and versatile. The ability to post, message, and write to people of a specific game that you're playing, almost like Steam groups, is pretty great.
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Note the button layout on the CC; assuming Nintendo stick with 'A' as the primary control (which, well, you'd expect!), it's to the *right* of the stick, rather than *below* it. The hand posture still feels good, but not quite as good as it would if it was as you're describing.
shut the fuck up about what? the wii had exactly the same, their complaints will not change because circumstances have not changed.
No
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Hell, as far as "hardcore" games go, I know a lot of people who would have preferred playing stuff like shooters on the Wii.
The Wii U tablet controller == The Wii U Classic Controller Pro ~= the Wii Classic Controller pro ~= The Wii Classic Controller.
These control schemes exist, and have always been here. 3rd parties will continue to complain until they get something like UE4 on the system so that they can save money through middleware.
I didn't know the Wii had such a thing. But I'llbite - What will the complaints focus on then?
I really don't think third-party games would change their whole button scheme around
Just transpose the four-button layout over the Wii U's existing buttons, just like they do with PS3/360
So 360 A = PS3 X = Wii U B
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nope
Reasonable people know this.
Angry people need a similar shape in front of them. They are T-rexes in that way.
in short bursts though, sure the pointer controls are interesting
Because auto-aim doesn't exist elsewhere.
Well if we're going to talk about crutches, which implies a lack of "true" control in a game, why not? If it's not a mouse and keyboard it's a baby game and gets too much praise!
Or maybe designing a game around control considerations shows saavy attitude.
Yes, it was
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"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Yeah, I loved the classic controller but let's get real for a moment here and remember that it wasn't perfect. The first and most important problem with the CC was that it wasn't compatible in all games. You wanted to play NSMBWii? You needed a wiimote, even if IMO there was not a single thing in that game even remotely requiring a wiimote at all - but thems the breaks. In fact, I see this as Nintendo shooting themselves in their foot entirely, because does this mean we'll get games with entirely different control schemes requiring multiple different kinds of peripherals? Will I need Wiimotes+Nunchuck for this game? Will I need a pro controller for this game? Considering all three console manufacturers love gouging the living fuck out of consumers in prices for extra peripherals, I am hardly going to get excited about this.
Personally though, I like the idea of the tablet screen but I just don't see how this is going to be effectively used. Like with motion controls, I'm just not excited about having this extra thing in front of me that I either have to watch or fiddle with when required. For example, people have been spooging about the fact that this could allow seamless inventory but I am thinking more "In a game like Devil May Cry where seconds reaction times matter on high difficulties, how on earth is looking AWAY from the screen to fiddle with inventory controls going to be better for the game?". I like the idea of sticking a map or similar on there of course, but how it actually is supposed to interact with gameplay to do something genuinely novel? Not seeing it yet - but Nintendo will lead the way as always. Probably while everyone else just half-asses the entire thing and probably has several confusing different control schemes or controller requirements.
I honestly see the Wii U being a complete disaster in the making here from third party developers. A novel a new control scheme for a home console? Check. Multiple entirely different controllers providing different levels of preferences and even entirely different control methods (traditional, touch and motion controls). Check. Third parties being their usual selves and just porting existing 360/PS3 games, without really making novel experiences made from the ground up with Wii U in mind? Check. People are joking about bingo here, but I've already hit my "This is what I didn't want to hear about the Wii U" bingo already. I will say I found it very frustrating to find a game which, IMO, didn't require any motion controls to do anything it was doing yet deny me use of the classic controller. It's one of the reasons I didn't bother playing more than world 2 in NSMBWii, despite the fact I think it's an indisputably excellent game. It just didn't use a controller I paid for and really wanted to use.
I'd love to be wrong, because despite what some idiots who want Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft to fail think, the better competition is will make better games (and a wider variety of games). I just can't help but feel we'll end up with a Wii like situation, where third party developers just mangle the system and half-ass in things like motion or touch controls at the detriment of the games. Meanwhile Nintendo has to keep making incredibly novel and quality software like Zelda, Mario and such forth keeping them afloat with nothing much outside of that. Of course I will say what saved my Wii from the dust it had gathered was Monster Hunter Tri. What a fabulous, fabulous game that was and I loved it. The game also came bundled with a "pro" controller and used it entirely (you did need a Wiimote IIRC to navigate things like inventory). Probably why I liked it - it was a game that didn't bother using anything to do (much) of the "new control scheme" nintendo introduced.
Personally speaking generally on this E3, I want to see motion controlled shit die in a fire. I want Nintendo to show Zelda, Mario and their other awesome (I am certain) games that will use the touch screen (which I am excited to see how they use it). I want Sony to bring out some new IPs, drop the price on the vita and hit hard with some good software. I want Microsoft to actually do the complete opposite of their absolutely terrible presentations from the previous 2+ years now (which I know, is asking a lot). I don't want to see motion controlled garbage in the Wii-U games, I don't want Sony to mention the move at all really (just let it die) and I don't want Microsoft to try ramming down my throat a ton of new incredibly awful kinect games. I'll grant Microsoft has produced the only motion controlled game I've ever played outside of "lightgun" rail shooters (EG Umbrella Chronicles) that I felt was worth anything: Dance Central.
But outside of that Kinect has to be even worse than the Wii in terms of tacked on or plain horrible motion controlled schemes. The true magic of kinect is that it can turn almost any decent idea into complete shit. The only exception is dance central, but that's because the game uses the technology almost perfectly. It's little wonder that everyone outside of that has failed dramatically and while widely derided, the dancing minigame in Star Wars kinect is the only good thing about it. Just imagine how bad the rest of that game is in comparison when that awful dance stuff is the best thing in the game. Just imagine*.
I don't mean to be so negative, but I'm really concerned that Nintendo are falling into the same trap they did with the Wii, Sony are going to commit suicide by sinking the vita and Microsoft are going to show us magical dash board updates and some garbage kinect games. I guess I just don't see what there is to be excited about in terms of these conferences. I really want to see what Microsoft/Sony are doing next generation and what the price of the Wii U (and peripherals) will be.
*Alternatively you've actually played the game and therefore you don't have to imagine. You know.
And I love motion controlled stuff, if done well. It isn't going away - videos like that Leap video show that is the future we are heading to, once people figure out proper feedback mechanisms.
A Crystal Chronicles sort of four-player dungeon crawler, and the Wii-U tablet displays a map that everyone can go back and reference, make notes on, pass around, etc. It seems like it would be fun.
Or perhaps we can have a home version of Pacman Vs.! A game where one player holds the tablet and sends waves of troops at the other player as if playing an RTS, who plays on the big screen in a hack'n'slash style game!
I think there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with the WiiU. If the Wii is any indication, a lot of those really cool things will not be done.
Let's Plays of Japanese Games
This is really overstating the "problems."
No games will require the pro controller and not the touch pad controller, because the touch pad controller has all the same buttons as the pro controller. It is literally the same controller. This is not analogous to Wii remote vs. CC at all.
The Wii remote + nunchuck is primarily there for backward compatibility. All focus will be on the new controller for the foreseeable future, especially considering that WiiU will finally be getting ports from the other consoles that require all the buttons of the touch pad controller.
I don't know a lot about DMC. Does it have an inventory? How do you usually manage it? Do you pause and go to a different screen, or do you cycle between things with L/R? If L/R, why would we assume you can no longer do that? If you have to pause the game to fiddle with the inventory, how is that not equally as jarring to you and your combo? Do we have any reason to assume devs will take out the ability to adjust your inventory while the game is paused? Isn't one major advantage simply the ability to drag things around instead of nudging a cursor around?
The inventory idea that everyone likes is for Zelda-style games, Diablo-style games. You have to match up the concept with the controller. Maybe DMC is so frantic that there is no good use for the tablet, in which case they'll leave up a default feed of other people's comments saying "man this game is hard." And that's fine. Not all genres fit the pad perfectly, just like not all genres fit motion control perfectly.
It's easy to come up with something that doesn't sound fun, but it's a manufactured concern with no grounding in reality.
Think of it as a home console DS.
You've got your top screen (TV), and your bottom touchscreen (tablet screen) surrounded by conventional button layout.
- Giant buttons that are easy to hit. Most recently seen in SSF4 3DS and Mario Tennis 3DS. Just some extra shortcuts that don't take precision to use. Certainly a giant pause button is easier to hit during a frantic moment than the start button.
- Directional swipes wouldn't be too hard either - if the player has a shuriken sub-weapon, they don't have to switch to it, they can just swipe in any direction at any time to toss one out, without even changing the direction their character is facing. You don't want a major focus on this sort of control but I don't think it'd be too bad as an option.
- If it's a game ported from another platform, include a new mechanic on the pad that rewards the player if they have the dexterity to deal with it in addition to the base game. Otherwise it's no great loss, same game as on the other platforms if you choose not to deal with it. Some kind of colored orb matching thing that gives you a damage buff, for example.
- Keep the stupid blood and haze effects from being hurt off of the main screen and instead show damage by tinted/pulsating light coming off the controller screen that's easy enough to pick up in peripheral vision. Reinforces the idea that YOU have been hurt, and not "ahh there's sauce dripping onto my eyes?!"
- Nothing at all. I think everyone will understand why you've just got a logo there if your game is really frantic. Of course you'll be implementing pad support at other times, just not during the fast gameplay.
It's been a while since I've played the Devil May Cry games, but in Bayonetta you had two weapon loadouts that switched with a button. I would love it if I had access to any variety of loadout on the touch screen with the switch button acting like "previous weapon" that you get in Valve's games and others.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
When Nintendo went to third parties and asked what it would take to get their support for a new console, do you think the third parties said they wanted improved motion controls? I'd expect them to say they'd support it if it was HD and had the same buttons and sticks as the other guys to make porting easy, and I'd find it hard to argue against them, since consoles' fortunes rise and fall on third party support. Nintendo can do alright on their own, but it means the difference between PS2's staying power and the Wii petering out these last two years.
Games supporting entirely different peripherals (or not supporting them) on a game by game basis is a "problem". You can pretend otehrwise, but I'll just ignore you on that.
I am not convinced. You can CLAIM this if you like Sporky, but I am not convinced there will be games with incompatible peripheral requirements between the Wiimote, Tablet Controller and Pro-Controller (with in my expectation, the pro-controller being shafted the most regularly). Past history is against you on this point, but we'll see if they learned anything or not.
I hope so as well and I hope that the Wiimote and motion control waggle half-assed control schemes die with the Wiimote. I have no complaint if every game uses the touch pad controller and can use the pro controller as a secondary option. That is my ideal scenario.
The moment I learn they are going to have some fiasco with Tablet controllers only/Wiimote only nonsense I'm done with them again for next generation. Fool me once etc.
Pausing the game and using it, which can mean life or death in many cases. Unless done extremely well, if you take your eyes off what you're doing and miss a critical monsters tell you'll be dead before having your inventory on a separate screen is useful. If you have to pause the game to use the screen, there is no advantage: That is the point. In a slower paced game it could be really good, but then I'm not worried about pausing the game to fiddle with inventory then either. I'm just not really seeing the advantage.
You'd almost think I'm basing this on years of watching third party developers release tons of shovelware and games with half-assed tacked on motion controls on the wii. But that never happened at all apparently!
How do I join this club?
Can we get jerseys?