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Issue concerning new friend.
billwill
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'll try to keep this brief.
I have a friend of friend who is just starting to move into friend territory. Let's call him Jason. I've seen him perhaps half a dozen times (always with other people, small group type things), and we gradually have more contact during each visit. The last time I hung out with him was about two weeks ago. It was just me, Jason, and another friend who we'll call Sally. We stayed at his house until 7am just playing board games and talking. Also, I was Sally's ride to and from Jason's house.
Anyway, about halfway through the night, I went to my car to get something I had left inside. After I returned, we continued playing a game until about a half an hour later when Jason left to use the restroom. Sally (who is closer to me than she is Jason) leaned in and told me that while I was running to my car, Jason asked her if she was comfortable with me driving her home later on. The two of them were planning on drinking later on in the night (hadn't started yet) and then he said something about me taking advantage of her after we had left and offered to let her sleep over in his guest room instead.
First off, I'm pissed that she even told me. It's a needless thing to share and it seems like she wanted to cause an issue. I don't think she should have said anything to me because she knows me well enough to know it would bother me.
Which leads to the main issue and the reason for this post: I can't seem to shake it out of my head. I'm incredibly insulted and there's a large part of me that doesn't want to hang out with someone who would insinuate that I'm a rapist. I mean, it's not like he barely knew me... the half-dozen times we've hung out prior we've all spent talking so he knows about my personality and he knows I'm not like that at all. He also knows that I wasn't going to drink (mainly because I was driving later), so it's not like he thought maybe in a moment of drunken stupidity I might take things too far. So that either leaves two option... He actually thinks I would do that, or he was telling her that to pull some bullshit machismo "I'm the protector" crap. I have a strong feeling he likes Sally romantically.
But both possibilities for why he would say that are terrible. I sincerely doubt it's the former; I've never given indication that I'm handsy or overly aggressive with girls (because I'm absolutely not). And if it's the latter, he was willing to insult me behind my back to that strong degree just to try and woo a girl.
I don't know. Am I blowing this out of proportion? He just texted asking what my plans are for this weekend so I assume he wants to arrange another get together. But I haven't responded because I can't think of anything to say to him. And another issue is, if I do decrease contact with him, it throws a wedge in our little group dynamic. He sort of has hosted our meetings. He's pretty close to my friend, Rebecca, and I really don't feel like disclosing to her what happened. I talked about this with Vicky, one of my closest friends who also knows Jason, and she thinks I should just forget about it.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance.
I have a friend of friend who is just starting to move into friend territory. Let's call him Jason. I've seen him perhaps half a dozen times (always with other people, small group type things), and we gradually have more contact during each visit. The last time I hung out with him was about two weeks ago. It was just me, Jason, and another friend who we'll call Sally. We stayed at his house until 7am just playing board games and talking. Also, I was Sally's ride to and from Jason's house.
Anyway, about halfway through the night, I went to my car to get something I had left inside. After I returned, we continued playing a game until about a half an hour later when Jason left to use the restroom. Sally (who is closer to me than she is Jason) leaned in and told me that while I was running to my car, Jason asked her if she was comfortable with me driving her home later on. The two of them were planning on drinking later on in the night (hadn't started yet) and then he said something about me taking advantage of her after we had left and offered to let her sleep over in his guest room instead.
First off, I'm pissed that she even told me. It's a needless thing to share and it seems like she wanted to cause an issue. I don't think she should have said anything to me because she knows me well enough to know it would bother me.
Which leads to the main issue and the reason for this post: I can't seem to shake it out of my head. I'm incredibly insulted and there's a large part of me that doesn't want to hang out with someone who would insinuate that I'm a rapist. I mean, it's not like he barely knew me... the half-dozen times we've hung out prior we've all spent talking so he knows about my personality and he knows I'm not like that at all. He also knows that I wasn't going to drink (mainly because I was driving later), so it's not like he thought maybe in a moment of drunken stupidity I might take things too far. So that either leaves two option... He actually thinks I would do that, or he was telling her that to pull some bullshit machismo "I'm the protector" crap. I have a strong feeling he likes Sally romantically.
But both possibilities for why he would say that are terrible. I sincerely doubt it's the former; I've never given indication that I'm handsy or overly aggressive with girls (because I'm absolutely not). And if it's the latter, he was willing to insult me behind my back to that strong degree just to try and woo a girl.
I don't know. Am I blowing this out of proportion? He just texted asking what my plans are for this weekend so I assume he wants to arrange another get together. But I haven't responded because I can't think of anything to say to him. And another issue is, if I do decrease contact with him, it throws a wedge in our little group dynamic. He sort of has hosted our meetings. He's pretty close to my friend, Rebecca, and I really don't feel like disclosing to her what happened. I talked about this with Vicky, one of my closest friends who also knows Jason, and she thinks I should just forget about it.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance.
I hate you and you hate me.
billwill on
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Satans..... hints.....
And you did say Sally did like drama, do you know if she is telling the truth.
Satans..... hints.....
If you think she wouldn't lie about it, whether or not she likes drama isn't really at issue here; it's definitely something you should know is happening if it's true, and she was right to tell you about it. I probably would have waited till we left, personally, but I'm sure she did what she thought was best.
And if you think it's probably true... I would definitely keep the guy at a "Hi, how are you?" level of acquaintanceship. It was a rotten thing to do to a person, and he will be so much trouble for you down the road.
Keep this donkey at arms length, hopefully he'll never try to pull that stunt with someone who might actually believe him.
Don't take it too personally, and just cool off for a bit. If the guy isn't a close friend, then there's no reason to be bugged by it, he just likes to show off. And if Sally likes drama BUT is telling the truth, there's no reason to be mad at her either. Anyway, that's my random-internet-dude two cents. Best of luck.
Maybe you should say something to him? If someone thought that I was going to do something like that, I'd have a little sit down with them and try to get to the bottom of it.
Absolutely. Unless you can find out that she's lying to stir up trouble, I would view what she did as a HUGE favour. If someone I thought was a friend was telling my friends he thought I was a potential rapist, I'd sure as hell want to know about it.
And no, I don't have any feelings for Sally. I think she may have some for me, but I definitely don't reciprocate. But this isn't about her, it's about what the guy was insinuating.
For Dr. Frenchenstein, yeah it's probably for the best. There were a few things that night that he did that make more sense now knowing how he operates (quite a few lies to try and make himself seem like a sex god and such).
Esh, no, not at all. I end up in some strange "what do I do romantically" situations because I'm tepid and over think everything, not "I'm going to rape you" situations. There is absolutely nothing about my personality that would indicate that I'm in any way violent or inclined towards sexual assault. Yes, I'm certain of this. And I would talk to him if I thought he genuinely believed I would do something like that, because in that case he was acting appropriately, but I'm very sure it was a way to get to Sally. Which I don't care if he makes a move, but I would appreciate him not throwing me under the bus in the process, as Dr. Frenchenstein said.
I think going from "taking advantage" to "rapist" is a little bit of a leap. I read it as "I'd hate to see you stick around here and get drunk and do something stupid with Billwill.", Not "I think Billwill is going to date-rape you when you're drunk."
He was implying I'd do something after we had left, and it was just me and her driving back to her place. And if it's the latter, to be honest, purposely taking advantage of a drunk girl is rape to me. He knew I wasn't going to drink. He knew I'd be in my normal state of mind.
I ask because obviously your lady friend hopefully doesn't think you're going to sexually attack her, otherwise she probably wouldn't be hanging around with you.
Is there a reason both of you can't just drop the new friend aside from large group social settings and call it a day?
I'm not going to argue semantics, but what you think he said and what he said are quite possibly two different things. This is why I (and I'm surprised no one else) told you to sit down with him and figure out why he'd say this.
You're adults, act like it. If you want to continue to be mad after you have a conversation with him, fine, but until then stop jumping to conclusions and feeding on the speculation of people who've never met any of you.
A very very very little leap. In fact, it's barely a pony-step.
PSN: rlinkmanl
If he really thought Billwill was a rapist, I doubt he'd be calling him to make plans.
I think there's just an issue of poorly chosen words and a game of telephone taking place here.
Jason might have been acting out of concern, not because he thinks you would actually try anything, but because he knows that alcohol puts people in compromising situations and he wanted to don his white knight armor. Or, he could have been acting like a douche and trying to undermine your friendship with Sally for his own douchey benefit. There's only one way to find out.
Obviously he doesn't think I'm a rapist, Esh. Like you said, he wouldn't be contacting me to make plans.
But he was willing to lie about me in that incredibly serious manner. I mean, what if I didn't know her well and she actually believed him? And that seed was planted in her head? And amateurhour, yes we both barely know him. She's seen him maybe four or five times. But I believe they also talk via text and such, which I don't do with him.
PSN: rlinkmanl
Then stop using that word. It's just getting you all worked up.
If that is the context then not so bad really. Although your friend needs to work on his pickup lines.
but they're listening to every word I say
Jason's thought process: I want to hang out with Sally. I'll offer to give her a ride home. If she wants, she'll bite.
Jason's conversation: "Hey, if you're uncomfortable, I can give you a ride home if you rather."
Sally: "Uh why?"
Jason: "You know if you didn't feel safe or what not." Anything reason he could make up. Could have meant it in a fool around kind of way. Maybe meant horrible drunken car accident way. Or possibly no way at all.
Sally's thought process: Safe from what? What's is he implying about Jason?
Sally to Billwill: While you were gone, Jason offered to take me home. He said I might not be safe with you.
Billwill's thought process: What the fuck do you think I'm going to do? Fuck him.
Billwill to us: See above.
Working from the bottom up, there are a hundred different permutations of this structure that results in possibilities including: Jason thinks you're a rapist. Jason thinks you were too drunk. Jason is manipulative and thinks Sally thinks you are are either a rapist or too drunk. Sally accidentally misconstrues something. Sally intentionally misconstrues something. Jason was hoping Sally devise her own excuse of you being too drunk or simply too uncomfortable, or too tired to drive, or too brown haired, or any other possible excuse that leaves him alone with her in a somewhat manipulative but entirely consensual manner that simply fell short because of Sally's lack of interest, desire for your (non-romantic)attention/drama, or (if she were to be interested in Jason) failure to recognize his signals.
In other words, the evidence you have seems insufficient to make definitive conclusions. You can either communicate to gather more evidence, or make a judgement call knowing that the consequences of doing what was suggested above and not really involving yourself with this guy aren't that costly for you.
Edit: Fixed my poorly chosen formatting.
People are unreliable sources, have unreliable memories, and very frequently misconstrue things other people are trying to tell them, and I'm kind of shocked at the people in this thread telling you that you should take that at all seriously. You're trying to play a game of telephone. You even admit that Sally has a bias towards wanting to create drama, so she is probably inclined to misconstrue things in that direction anyhow.
I mean, if you're really that worked up about it, you should ask the dude about it. But honestly, I would just write it off.
As others have noted, if "Sally" likes a little drama in her life, you might want to take what she tells you with a grain of salt, especially if it's gotten a rise out of you. Depending on how well she knows you, perhaps she (intentionally or unintentionally) happened to word it in a way that pushes your buttons.
I'm not saying it's necessarily malicious, but you up front tell us that she's not necessarily a great source of information (at least, I don't consider the shit disturbers around me as such).
Also, I think I saw it asked, but not sure I caught it being answered; you mentioned thinking he might have an interest in her, but do you? If so, perhaps he's picked up on that and doesn't, in fact, know you well enough to ascertain your intentions. If so, does she know it, or likely to have figured it out? Perhaps she likes the idea of being fought over a little, or having attention from two people at once (even if it's nothing she plans to follow up on).
And to clarify, I don't mean to say she's a bad, evil woman preying on those around her; just that like you, we're working from limited information, so there are a whole wealth of possibilities. Bad joke gone wrong, white knighting with hopes for de-pants'ing, sincere concern, whatever. You've spoken to her, if you really want a better sense, speak to him, and if you're as upset about it as you've indicated, bring it up while in the room with everyone else (if possible) who was there. Having them there to verify or clarify things is probably a lot more straightforward than just speaking to him, getting a denial and then being left wondering which of the two you believe more.
I've been in the situation of a girl trying to cause drama between a friend and I and if I hadn't called him and found out what the situation was I might have lost a decent friend to a conniving tramp.
I've also been in the situation of the dude being an asshole trying to make himself look better at my expense. Sooner I knew the sooner I could kick him out of my life.
Alternatively the guy, who it doesn't seem knows you super well may have just said "If riding home with him will bother your cause your worried about getting molested or something you can stay here." as I've offered to women I know as friends in when their plans may be to be drunk and alone around a dude I don't.
You don't know until you know... you know?
He was looking for a reason to get her to stay over for sexy time and found one of the worst reasons possible, which she blurted out to you, probably out of context.
I honestly wouldn't worry about it much unless you start noticing it more, or he actually confronts you about it, in which case fuck it, find a new friend.
Gossip and shitting on people is one thing, but when it deals with stuff like date-rape or other sensitive topics it can really spread a bad reputation for you.
Don't flip your shit at him but you should ask him to not say stuff like that about you. It's REALLY disrespectful.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Also, she repeated exactly what he said to her. I don't remember word for word because it's been a while and I didn't memorize it, but it definitely directly me mentioned me taking advantage of her after we had left his house. And he knew for sure that I wasn't going to drink because 1) I don't drink normally and 2) We had just gone to the liquor store and we walked around as he and Sally got stuff for themselves and it was a big thing to him that I wasn't going to drink at all.
But you guys are right, she could have twisted it or something. She definitely seems like the kind of girl who would want two guys jostling for her but again, I know her well, and I'm almost certain she wouldn't lie.
Talking to him about this would feel a little weird. He would probably lie and deny it, first off, and second, I'm 99% certain he said it (again, it fit in with his behavior that night), so what would I say, especially after waiting two weeks to bring it up?
One second you're positive he said it. The next, she could be twisting it around because she's that kind of girl. You have all these images in your head of people you don't really seem to know that well. Stop going with those and actually try and entertain some discourse. Several people in here have told you to talk to him, but you keep ignoring that advice in favor of the easy way out.
Ceres is right that it may spoil some of the social dynamic between Sally and Jason, although you have to decide for yourself to what extent you're responsible for preserving the harmony between these two people. He wasn't particularly interested at preserving the social harmony between you and Sally, so I think you'd be forgiven if you felt like this was important enough that the Sally/Jason dynamic is a secondary consideration.
I'll add as an aside that if I were in this situation, though, I'd let it go. You say in the OP you've hung out with him all of a half dozen times? I couldn't give less of a damn what someone who has only known me for a few hours would say about me. Your OP sort of suggests that based on a half-dozen small social gatherings that he ought to, like, know your soul or something. Trust me, that's not true. After 30 years, I'm still learning new things about myself.
I gather that you're predisposed to getting a little more tightly wound up about this, though, and that is also an equally valid way to feel. You probably need to take Esh's advice and address that tension, or take for granted that you're probably not going to be close friends and stop hanging out with the guy so much.
Ceres, that is definitely something to consider.
SammyF, I don't expect him to know me completely or something. But I think a cumulative or thirty or so hours is enough to know if someone is the kind of guy to take advantage of an inebriated girl. And I honestly don't care what he thinks about me, so long as he keeps it to himself. It's when he brings other people into this and tries to plant extremely offensive ideas about my personality into their minds that it becomes an issue to me.
And it's not like I'm really stewing about this. I haven't thought about it in about a week, and was just reminded when he texted me the other day. It's just always hovering in the back of my mind when I talk to him.
As much as Esh is going to say I'm trying to take the easy way out, I'm not. I just don't see the point of bringing it up. Do you really think he'd tell me the truth? What if he really thought I would sexually assault her? You think he'd say that to me? "Hey, man. Oh, yeah, I said that to her. It's because I thought you were going to sexually assault her after you two left. Are we cool?" And I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to share that (if it is indeed what he thought). But either way, it kind of defeats the purpose of going to him because I don't think it would clear anything up at all.
Then why did you even make this thread? What do you want us to tell you? We don't have any information besides some game of telephone and what you think is 100% correct. You can't be positive of anything if you weren't there.
Again, you're making so many assumptions that it's not even funny. Again, you do this a lot, and it generally turns out to be wrong. I can start referencing and linking old threads directly if you want.
Either stop talking to him or don't. That's the only answer you're going to get if you keep refusing to actually act like an adult and speak with him about it. If you want to continue to perpetuate drama (again, from your old threads) then just ignore it and seethe about it for God knows how long.
I'm more stunned by your method of bringing it up. You bring up the motives when you talk, not the act itself. That method above would be like a bad soap opera.
I believe this is absolutely correct.
He was trying to get her to sleep over in hopes that more would happen once you were gone.
Arms length at least...