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Hunting the most dangerous game: a dude's assets.

Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
edited June 2012 in Help / Advice Forum
So to continue the ongoing saga of me getting fucked, the guy i sued a couple years ago has apparently skipped town. There is a warrant for his arrest, in relation to my judgement against him, but apparently it's really hard to get a warrant served out of state. He's in North Carolina apparently. anyways, my (now-ex) lawyer mentioned the guy may have some property in the city, and if it's owned outright, I might be able to force a sale, and get some restitution.

My lawyer is a douche, and i don't want to give him another dime so i want to do this on my own. I filed for the body attachment myself, so why not this?! I checked the SDAT database, and i can find who owns a certain property, but i can't seem to do a reverse lookup to see what other property he owns. I think you can with a company, but not an individual (that i can see anyways). I know where his property is (Baltimore City) but i don't know the address, if there is one. anyone have any ideas?

Dr. Frenchenstein on

Posts

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    http://cityservices.baltimorecity.gov/realproperty/

    Verify it with the SDAT for baltimore.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Not to be a dick, but I've read a number of your posts indicating that you think your lawyer is a 'douche'. Why not just hire a new attorney? I know a small number of dishonest attorneys give us bad name, but in my experience, most of us are completely honest, and really actually care about helping our clients. There's also a reason why hire attorneys, because most of the time the amount of time people spend trying to do this themselves, is probably a lot more than what it would take to just work for the money the attorney would charge you.

    Edit: I also can't count the number of times I've been called in to fix things that people thought they could do themselves, and so royally fucked up that they ended up screwing themselves out of a lot more money in the long run than had they just hired a [competent] attorney in the first place.

    Simpsonia on
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    Yeah I'd be worried about doing it myself personally DrF. I'd find a really reputable lawyer that deals with this stuff, maybe call the bar assoc/law school and see where they can point you.

    Let me know if that link doesn't work, I can find more I think.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    I don't think (irrc) that he's anti-lawyer, but that he had a crappy experience with his last one and realized he can do a lot of the legwork.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
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  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    Considering he didn't answer my calls for 6 months, and missed a couple court dates/deadlines. I'm pretty soured on that particular lawyer. At this point, i'm already sunk into this lawsuit, so i'm very wary of paying more money into it and getting nothing in return. My time i'm ok with blowing, my money, not so much. I'm not soured on lawyers in general, so i hope i don't come off as insulting ALL lawyers (just this particular one), because i don't mean to.

    Also, the judgement is already in, i've won. I'm pretty sure it's just doing research and filing paperwork at this point. Also, i have a few lawyer friends who are willing to help me with the proper paperwork.

    Holy shit Bowen, he owns like 8 houses according to that site! i'll verify with SDAT (and see if i can find lien info, or whatever) and see what i need to do to try and force a sale.

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    A good collections attorney or a good PI, or some paid look services like accurint can take you quite a bit farther.

    County clerks always got me further than state stuff when I was doing that kind of thing.

  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    sportzboy has it.

    I have another case going, and that lawyer seems good enough.

    i do take issue with the legal system however, because it's wide open to bleed a middle class guy like me dry with last minute postponements, and horseshit vacated judgements though.

  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    verified them all with SDAT, now comes the tougher part of finding out if there are any liens already on these. considering some of them are worth like 20k, i kind of doubt it.

    apparently i need to get an abstract of title, i hope not for each property. would Accurint do that? I'm willing to pay for that service, because it sounds like it has to be done by a lawyer) just not my lawyer.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    It might be able too, but I never used those facets - I was more looking for broke people and bail skips, so I can't confirm.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    I don't know if you can discuss particulars, so if you can't, then ignore my question.

    How is there a warrant for his arrest in relation to your civil judgement against him? Just curious.

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  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    He sounds like a house flipper. People like my dad, they do okay, make good money. Problem is when you've got a decent person like my dad you've got a shitty person like his friend who doesn't get permits and makes it presentable for a year or so and then makes a sale. You can buy some HUD homes on the cheap ($20,000 is cheap... my dad got one in an auction because it sat unused for a decade for about $3500).

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I don't know if you can discuss particulars, so if you can't, then ignore my question.

    How is there a warrant for his arrest in relation to your civil judgement against him? Just curious.

    If you go long enough without paying your bills and don't show up to court and don't pay your civil fines like those kinds of judgements you're actually breaking the law. If it's been shown you can and have the ability to pay them, and you don't have pay to dock (like you own a lot of assets but don't make an income and don't necessarily have a lot of liquid funds) they can force you to sell.

    It's a forced bankruptcy. If it goes long enough, and you flee the area, then, you go to jail/get forced into court/get assets liquidated. Usually you're only in jail long enough to liquidate your assets, pay off your debts, and then you're free to go.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    yeah pretty much, he just stopped showing up to court. originally a warrant was issued just to force him to come to court, but if the court thinks you've exhausted all reasonable avenues to collect the debt, they'll issue one where his bail is his debt. so i got one of those bad boys. unfortunately, he left the state, so i think my only hope there is that he'll come back to MD and get pulled over, which is unlikely.

    Yeah he was a house flipper, but a VERY BAD ONE. i think i caught him right on his way out of the business so he basically just left a shitstorm. he used to own a bail bond business here, and apparently still has one in NC. i wonder if that is an option as well.

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    You might be able to put a lien on his business' assets assuming he was dumb enough to do a DBA/SP instead of an LLC or S/C-corp.

    Hell you might even be able to if they are those things (lawyer will be able to tell you).

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    You might be able to put a lien on his business' assets assuming he was dumb enough to do a DBA/SP instead of an LLC or S/C-corp.

    Hell you might even be able to if they are those things (lawyer will be able to tell you).

    I believe you'd have a shot at them, IANAL but LLC, etc are to protect the owner from liability, not the business from the owner's liability, so as one of the owner's assets, it would seem like open season.

    Walkerdog on MTGO
    TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    That's what I thought too, but I have no idea.

    Dude is in for some royal hurting though and I hope DrF gets him good.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Sorry I think there was a bit of projection there, I get very annoyed at some of my clients who create nothing but headaches for me when they try and do things themselves.

    It's probably not worth worrying about the company, it's probably too costly and time intensive to go after it, especially if it's completely removed from your jurisdiction. Your best bet is to either hire an attorney in whichever state he went to to domesticate the judgment there, or try and lien the hell out of those properties he does own and hope to god that he purchased those properties with cash. If banks own the notes, you'll almost certainly never see a dime unless there's some serious equity in them (which it sounds like there isn't or he wouldn't have abandoned them). A quick check with the local county recorder of deeds should show if there's any mortgages on the properties, you can also run searches by name to see any properties owned.

    disclaimer: IAAL, not your lawyer, this is not legal advice, blah blah blah.

  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    Go get a lawyer. Enforcing a judgment can be a real pain in the ass and if you go around filing things and then get a lawyer to take over it will be a pain for the lawyer to get it all straightened out.

    fwKS7.png?1
  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    What exactly can i screw up here though? i mean, if i file to get a lien on one of those properties, get it granted then file paperwork to get it foreclosed on, where can i hit an issue that a lawyer would have to come in and correct?

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    What exactly can i screw up here though? i mean, if i file to get a lien on one of those properties, get it granted then file paperwork to get it foreclosed on, where can i hit an issue that a lawyer would have to come in and correct?

    most likely: when the dude with like 10 houses and a couple businesses hires an attorney to find some loophole to keep you from getting his stuff and you need an attorney to counter that loophole.

    specifically: if it goes to court and you're unprepared or don't know procedure. I used to audit a lot of courtroom stuff in college (studied Criminology) and there were more than a few instances where a case went to court and a guy was defending himself and didn't know proper times to speak or what to say, almost like that first day of court in My Cousin Vinny, and the judge seriously had it out for him because of that.

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    What do you do if he sells or transfers away the property, or otherwise is hiding assets from you? What if he files bankruptcy? What happens if you fail to file for a lien correctly, then he files bankruptcy before a lien? What other writs or motions can you seek to preserve debtor's property? How do you force a judicial sale? I have seen national banks make fifty-million dollar mistakes when it comes to dealing with liens and their recordation. What you do in this stage will impact your rights in the event this guy, who is obviously a scumbag, gets cute.

    I can't answer those questions for you or give you any legal advice besides talk to a lawyer because these questions and their answers are all highly jurisdiction dependent, at the micro level - each sheriff's department or set of federal marshalls will do things differently. An attorney who specializes in judgment collection will know his or her way around the local system and how to operate it effectively, and will have the ear of the local law enforcement you need to act swiftly.

    You should be able to find an attorney who works on a percentage contingency basis so you pay little or nothing up front.

    fwKS7.png?1
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Isn't part of the theory of lawyer fees that the party proven to be in the right can reclaim his costs as part of the damages from the party in the wrong? Or am I being insanely naive here?

    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    It depends. A judge would almost definitely award DrF damages and legal costs at this point. They usually don't unless it's absolutely ridiculous someone had to sue and levvy a judgement to get their money back. If there's a bonafide dispute between who owes who what, they won't (usually).

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    I believe the confessed judgement did include monies spent to collect the debt... So i need to hang on to my damn receipts...

    My company offers an EAP thing, where i can get free legal advice. maybe they can recommend a good collections lawyer.

  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    welp, talked to the collections lawyer and he suggested just filing for a writ of execution on one of the properties, and seeing what happens. i can do that shit myself, or pay him like $160/hour. i talked to a title company, and they want $60 per property to run a lien summary(abstract, whatever).

    However, i found that i can request a lien certification through the city for $25 per property. a bank's ownership of a property would be listed as a lien, right? like my bank has a lien on my property for the amount of my mortgage?

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