Games that use physics modelling for walking...

puppetmaster

Anyone know of any games that use legged creatures and physical modelling? Maybe with balancing, and feet that look like pushing the ground and might slip, instead of that typical "moonwalk" look?
Like Ragdoll physics , but with powered motored joints. I know theres BackBreaker, the GTA 4 cops .. and some stuff, but the creatures aren't really walking , especially the main character.. they never seem to fall or anything, and in Backbreaker , only the tackles look like ragdoll mode.

TychoCelchuuu

Sumotori Dreams, Spore, Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne 3, The Force Unleashed, The Force Unleashed 2, Starcraft II uses it for the Colossi.

Ragnar Dragonfyre

Pretty much any game that uses the Euphoria Engine. Look that up specifically.

mrt144

You're welcome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmcMG4uxiHk

puppetmaster

Thanks.. Thats "most difficult game " is what im looking for , but i dont want to move every muscle with QWOP keys.. or fall that much..
I looked at Spore.. but theres a one-legged creature looks like its held up by some invisible forces.
Its definitely not balancing on its "own" like a robot and not realistic..
The Euphoria engine demos look great, But Then i try GTA 4.. i'm standing on a box with only one toe of one leg on it.. and not falling off or stepping down.. not realistic. Its got to be using a :"cheating" support force for that main character... im hoping for virtual robots or at least bugs..

TychoCelchuuu

Walkinator might be what you want.

puppetmaster

ahh checked out the to Walkinator.. makes me believe in "Intelligent design" over evolution.. eheh Sumotori Dreams is amazing and definitely not "cheating".. but the guys look more drunk than i have ever been in my life... way to drunk to walk.. i guess wrestling you don't need to be balanced on your feet..

But..i just found a new one through the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragdoll_physics, the Kontrol game.

i went to www.puppetarmyfaction.com.. i'm trying its demo now.. so far its playable, only 2d but looks very physical .. and creatures are fierce.. AI guy decapitated me 3 times so far..

Stormwatcher

QWOP is the most amazing and awful and wonderful and horrible thing ever.

captaink

How about a falling simulator?
http://secretexit.com/freeware

hatedinamerica

Starforge and Overgrowth are the things that spring immediately to mind. Possibly not exactly what you're talking about but both have pretty amazing physics and are only in Alpha stage development.
Overgrowth for example, has no health system whatsoever. All characters have a skeleton and if the neck/spine is broken, you die. You can kill yourself by landing on your head or hitting a wall at a high speed.

Seriously, look them up on Youtube and check out their respective websites because there is some pretty impressive programming/tech on display in each, even at this early stage.

Drake

Cortex Command does this too. It's also getting near a full release! One more to go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9mS4HfSCU

Snork

hatedinamerica wrote: »

Starforge and Overgrowth are the things that spring immediately to mind. Possibly not exactly what you're talking about but both have pretty amazing physics and are only in Alpha stage development.
Overgrowth for example, has no health system whatsoever. All characters have a skeleton and if the neck/spine is broken, you die. You can kill yourself by landing on your head or hitting a wall at a high speed.

Seriously, look them up on Youtube and check out their respective websites because there is some pretty impressive programming/tech on display in each, even at this early stage.

holy motherFUCK why has noone told me about Overgrowth before? This game looks amazing

hatedinamerica

It IS amazing. I preordered months ago and it's sort of mind blowing. The combat is, hands down, The Best. I mean that. It's the best combat in any game ever. Not much "game" in there yet but honestly it's already worth the price of admission.

I mean, come on...100% PHYSICS-BASED COMBAT. think about that.

Man of the Waves

QW OP

OH MY GOD!

I finished watching that video minutes ago and I haven't stopped laughing since it started.

The controls at the top had me laughing hysterically before there was any movement.


AHAHA the music when you finally inch across the starting line!


I have hiccups now.

puppetmaster

i checked out starforges video .. http://starforge.typepad.com/starforge/2012/05/character-physics-teaser-video.html .. it can fall.. but its doing physically impossible wall walks and stuff.. and its definitely seems being lifted.. the run/ speed is so constant just like any game.

but this Kontrol is pretty amazing.. the one at www.puppetarmyfaction.com if neck is broken you die like Overgrowth , but i see the leg can regrow. and you can kind of walk like a freak with one shorter leg..

now im seeing that wind gusts actually affect the guys gait.. if i raise his arm especially holding a sword.. the wind kind of tips him back..
so i squat and walk... up the hill.. he ducks the wind..

im still looking for a good Euphoria based game, that works like their demos. can't find one..
maybe in 3d its too slow to compute realtime, and its for the movies. for now im back to this Kontrol.. its only Alpha/ sandbox though.
looks kind of early stage .. ill try to capture a video if i get good enough to do something cool.. they didnt post any video yet, just a silverlight demo.

Atheraal

I always liked the physics/animation in Shadow of the Colossus, it seemed to flow pretty naturally.

Ragnar Dragonfyre

puppetmaster wrote: »

i checked out starforges video .. http://starforge.typepad.com/starforge/2012/05/character-physics-teaser-video.html .. it can fall.. but its doing physically impossible wall walks and stuff.. and its definitely seems being lifted.. the run/ speed is so constant just like any game.

but this Kontrol is pretty amazing.. the one at www.puppetarmyfaction.com if neck is broken you die like Overgrowth , but i see the leg can regrow. and you can kind of walk like a freak with one shorter leg..

now im seeing that wind gusts actually affect the guys gait.. if i raise his arm especially holding a sword.. the wind kind of tips him back..
so i squat and walk... up the hill.. he ducks the wind..

im still looking for a good Euphoria based game, that works like their demos. can't find one..
maybe in 3d its too slow to compute realtime, and its for the movies. for now im back to this Kontrol.. its only Alpha/ sandbox though.
looks kind of early stage .. ill try to capture a video if i get good enough to do something cool.. they didnt post any video yet, just a silverlight demo.

If they don't place limitations on Euphoria during gameplay it would get pretty janky rather quickly. Get drunk and you'll see what I mean. There's certain times when in GTAIV or RDR you lose total control of your character for a long time because he can't find his feet. He'll start stumbling in one direction due to landing on a slope (and it doesn't need to be steep either) oddly and you just have to ride it out until he comes to a full stop. It can be REALLY frustrating sometimes.

Realism doesn't always equate to good gameplay and in Euphoria's case something had to give. The demo's are the closest thing to the realism you're lookin for with Euphoria.

Darmak

Drake wrote: »

Cortex Command does this too. It's also getting near a full release! One more to go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9mS4HfSCU

This is a really good game, I'm glad I bought it long ago and and I'm glad they're nearing a release date. Checking their site also showed me this video, which while it's not quite what the OP wants still looks pretty good.

http://youtu.be/BJZAzNKZBew

Echo

The proper phrase is inverse kinematics, by the way.

override367

Max Payne 3 is the best game usage of Euphoria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDdX527xjFY

MP3 is a goddamn work of art

Guild Wars 2 has pretty good IK for its genre

Lork

Minotaur China Shop

There are no games that use inverse kinematics as anything other than a cosmetic thing or a gimmick for laughs, because it would make a normal game unplayable.

puppetmaster

Inverse Kinematics is old school now. I'm looking for forward kinematic: robotic-like, self-balancing , walkers, or a real simulator, made into a game. even a damn spider will do. how can it fall with 8 legs?
guess ill have to wait a few years for a good use of Euphoria engine like the demos show. until then im playing with Kontrol , i've spent an hour mucking around already, in its sandbox. toribash and the drunk sumos are the real thing, but just about retarded as far as trying to be game characters. i'd love a horse or dog sim that runs on junk , that you can see flying the other way as it slips on a brisk takeoff running start.
this Kontrol game on puppetarmyfacton site still is the only game i see in these lists, that actually simulates pressing feet on ground. and there appears to be moving toes in action. when you walk on the other guy its evident. the stuff on ground is being moved .. it might shift or foot can slip. if you walk in the balloon ship when its flying, it budges the other way with each foot push , so it must be.
i see none of that in max Payne at least the promo video.. i might try a demo of it tho. theres physics in the movements, but all the ground is flat and the gait looks "too perfect", never a stumble.. or lean against wall... I dont even see a step he has to climb. i think its just moving the feet to flat ground as body is moved by some external force, using the standard inverse kinematic method.

surrealitycheck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1TM90jWXKM

hatedinamerica

Oh my god, that's what that's from?!

Somebody sent me a gif of that a little while back with no explanation and I had no idea what I was seeing.

Renzo

Darmak wrote: »

Drake wrote: »

Cortex Command does this too. It's also getting near a full release! One more to go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9mS4HfSCU

This is a really good game, I'm glad I bought it long ago and and I'm glad they're nearing a release date. Checking their site also showed me this video, which while it's not quite what the OP wants still looks pretty good.

http://youtu.be/BJZAzNKZBew

I just played most of the demo for Intrusion 2 and I'm definitely buying the full game. It is hilarious fun. And it supports the 360 controller!

TychoCelchuuu

puppetmaster wrote: »

Inverse Kinematics is old school now. I'm looking for forward kinematic: robotic-like, self-balancing , walkers, or a real simulator, made into a game. even a damn spider will do. how can it fall with 8 legs?
guess ill have to wait a few years for a good use of Euphoria engine like the demos show. until then im playing with Kontrol , i've spent an hour mucking around already, in its sandbox. toribash and the drunk sumos are the real thing, but just about retarded as far as trying to be game characters. i'd love a horse or dog sim that runs on junk , that you can see flying the other way as it slips on a brisk takeoff running start.
this Kontrol game on puppetarmyfacton site still is the only game i see in these lists, that actually simulates pressing feet on ground. and there appears to be moving toes in action. when you walk on the other guy its evident. the stuff on ground is being moved .. it might shift or foot can slip. if you walk in the balloon ship when its flying, it budges the other way with each foot push , so it must be.
i see none of that in max Payne at least the promo video.. i might try a demo of it tho. theres physics in the movements, but all the ground is flat and the gait looks "too perfect", never a stumble.. or lean against wall... I dont even see a step he has to climb. i think its just moving the feet to flat ground as body is moved by some external force, using the standard inverse kinematic method.

I don't think you really understand what you're asking for. In one breath you say "the sumo game gets it right, but it's pretty stupid for game characters because it's a mess" and then you say "the games that are easy to control like GTA and Max Payne are too perfect" but you don't see that you can't fix one problem without introducing the other. Either it's more realistic but really really hard to work as a game, because the player has 100% control over what the character does and therefore you get a lot of glitchy/odd stuff, or it's less realistic so that you can actually play the game but the reduction in realism means that the game isn't quite what you're asking for.

l_g

puppetmaster wrote: »

Inverse Kinematics is old school now. I'm looking for forward kinematic: robotic-like, self-balancing , walkers, or a real simulator, made into a game. even a damn spider will do. how can it fall with 8 legs?
guess ill have to wait a few years for a good use of Euphoria engine like the demos show. until then im playing with Kontrol , i've spent an hour mucking around already, in its sandbox. toribash and the drunk sumos are the real thing, but just about retarded as far as trying to be game characters. i'd love a horse or dog sim that runs on junk , that you can see flying the other way as it slips on a brisk takeoff running start.
this Kontrol game on puppetarmyfacton site still is the only game i see in these lists, that actually simulates pressing feet on ground. and there appears to be moving toes in action. when you walk on the other guy its evident. the stuff on ground is being moved .. it might shift or foot can slip. if you walk in the balloon ship when its flying, it budges the other way with each foot push , so it must be.
i see none of that in max Payne at least the promo video.. i might try a demo of it tho. theres physics in the movements, but all the ground is flat and the gait looks "too perfect", never a stumble.. or lean against wall... I dont even see a step he has to climb. i think its just moving the feet to flat ground as body is moved by some external force, using the standard inverse kinematic method.

Do you actually know what the definition of "forward kinematic" is?
Are you aware of why inverse kinematics is relevant even for physically simulated gait controllers?
Are you actually just shilling Kontrol? (10/10 if you are, because I wound up visiting the website)

I agree that there are relatively few games which make use of deeply simulated physical motion as anything other than a special effect. Part of it simply has to do with how it affects gameplay (it's often negative, because the designers can't anticipate/control how the character will move), and has the potential to put the characters into bad states. Part of it also has to do with responsiveness: it might look somewhat more real, but it has the potential to make the character frustratingly less responsive, and if the game has the ability to force the character out of physical simulation in order to make it go when the player demands, it'll result in nasty popping that breaks the illusion... which makes you wonder why bother at all.

Here's an example of a state-of-the-art physically-based biped walk controller:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~van/papers/2010-TOG-gbwc/index.html
... but it's not used in any games at the moment afaik.

Henroid

I see QWOP was invoked before I could get here. Talk about a frustrating experience, that game is.

puppetmaster

thanks , and i'm gonna try and get old GTA4 and try the "drunk mode".. and the Backbreaker video looks like the real thing (almost), when the foot hits the barrier .. im not a mathmetics expert, when i said forward kinematic, i just mean feet should seem to push the ground back and thus body goes forward by reaction, not the other way around ( body magically moves where you want, then feet seems to follow)

that biped looks amazing , would be fun to play in a game.. i see they put the character editor thing online at http://code.google.com/p/cartwheel-3d/wiki/RunTheEditor

its when a biped character steps on a banana peel and falls, or rounds a corner , it should be leaning into the turn as we do.... thats when we'd see a real physics simulation at work

Kai_San

This is hilarious because i just wandered upon qwop like two days ago and havent laughed that hard at a vid in ages.

puppetmaster

i found the actual game.. trying it now at http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html .. but i cannot walk forward even 2 meters after 10 min practice i think a drummer might be able to get a rhythm eventually . but i feel like playing more.. theres no toes moving tho like the Kontrol characters have. but its definitely addictive in an insane way.. i believe it could run fast and jump if you get super-wired to the games feel.

Glal

It sounds like you want Trespasser!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7SnD1Rjl7U

Ohyes. Look at that clumsy walk. Clearly game characters that can literally trip over their own feet are the way to go. :^:

Mr_Grinch

Don't you bad mouth Trespasser! No game that relies on a 'boob heart tattoo' health system can be bad.

puppetmaster

ive read about Trespasser on the ragdoll wiki , like a cult game with bad reviews.. i might try it.. in the video you post , that Albertosaur with that long tail.. looks like it -could- balance on two legs, but im not sure that the sim is balancing with it.. it from the video.. looks still kind of fake.. like most "normal" games.. Can you drive a the jeep into its leg and trip it over?.. if it sometimes trips on obstacles even its own feet.. if shoved or something... that is the realism that im hoping for. i'm still failing to walk at all with QWOP its infuriating. .. i normally play actual sports but i got ligaments injured so im looking for new muscle/skeletal games..

acidlacedpenguin

crap, what's the name of that free fighting game where over the course of like 1000 0.1s timeslices you manipulate each joint and muscle in your character's body with the goal of knocking the other player over. I recall seeing some advanced moves like doing a backflip, ripping off your own head, and flinging it at the other guy, then flailing in your feet until the other guy falls over.

POKÉMON MASTER WT SHERMAN

acidlacedpenguin wrote: »

crap, what's the name of that free fighting game where over the course of like 1000 0.1s timeslices you manipulate each joint and muscle in your character's body with the goal of knocking the other player over. I recall seeing some advanced moves like doing a backflip, ripping off your own head, and flinging it at the other guy, then flailing in your feet until the other guy falls over.

Toribash. You can indeed do some crazy things with practice.

Glal

puppetmaster wrote: »

ive read about Trespasser on the ragdoll wiki , like a cult game with bad reviews.. i might try it.. in the video you post , that Albertosaur with that long tail.. looks like it -could- balance on two legs, but im not sure that the sim is balancing with it.. it from the video.. looks still kind of fake.. like most "normal" games.. Can you drive a the jeep into its leg and trip it over?.. if it sometimes trips on obstacles even its own feet.. if shoved or something... that is the realism that im hoping for. i'm still failing to walk at all with QWOP its infuriating. .. i normally play actual sports but i got ligaments injured so im looking for new muscle/skeletal games..

The dinosaurs will literally trip over their own feet and occasionally kill themselves when they smack into the ground. I don't think there's any balancing going on, but the actual walking is definitely all wonky "must move limb to move that way oh shit there was another limb in the way hop hop hop".

Mr_Grinch

Yeah, it's not really what you're after but it does have some pretty crazy physics going on. The arm bending your character can do is also quite amazing.

POKÉMON MASTER WT SHERMAN

apparently i need to play trespasser as soon as possible

Mr_Grinch

As the rumours go, tresspasser had some crazy complex AI where the dinosaurs had different moods and emotions and would react differently to you depending on how hungry/threatened/angry they were. It was still a bit bugged though and they needed to rush the game out so they just set all the dinosaurs at 100% angry. Wikipedia says this:

In most PC games, characters have "animations" in the traditional sense: an animator scripts a sequence of movements for the 3D model to do, which are played at specified times. Every animation in Trespasser is done using inverse kinematics. No animation in the game is pre-animated; every movement of every dinosaur is generated automatically through their artificial intelligence. Due to the rushed nature of development, this feature ultimately resulted primarily in awkward movement as the dinosaurs performed unnaturally.[2] Andrew Grant was Trespasser's chief artificial intelligence programmer.[13]Trespasser was designed to have a complex artificial intelligence routine, giving each creature on the island its own set of emotions; fear, happiness, hunger, among many others. Dinosaurs will fight together, enemy to enemy.[2] Dinosaurs would react to the player differently depending on what mood they were in.[13] Unfortunately, system bugs in the artificial intelligence routines made it so that dinosaurs would have drastic mood swings and would switch between mood-based actions so quickly, they would actually stop moving, unable to do anything at all. A quick fix was hard-coded in to the game that locked all dinosaurs’ anger at maximum, leaving all other emotions at zero.

The physics are also crazy. From wikipedia:

For example, Anne could pick up steel girders that theoretically weighed a ton or more, and swing them around or toss them several feet with ease, but could not use this same arm to pull herself over a 3-foot (0.91 m) high embankment. The wrist is able to rotate 360 degrees several times over and the lack of an elbow often results in erratic and impossible movement.

If you've never played it I'd definitely give it a try, it's certainly a unique experience. I should play it again some time, on release I could barely get a passable frame rate from it.

Glal

Best part is killing yourself by picking up a plank you're standing on.