Even if you are the jungler, the chances are pretty large your team won'e help you counterjungle, but their team will react. And then you are "worst jungler ever" according to the people who died 3 times before 10 min.
Even if you are the jungler, the chances are pretty large your team won'e help you counterjungle, but their team will react. And then you are "worst jungler ever" according to the people who died 3 times before 10 min.
First rule of jungling:
It is always your fault.
Just say that you're at fault in pre-game chat, and the game will typically go better.
Honestly, Shaco isn't even close to actually being worth a ban in my opinion. It's mostly just that he's really annoying to play against that gets him banned I think.
When play with a large number of randoms (read more than 0) I need to ban things they will feed even if that champion isn't OP (read Shaco, Kass, and Alistar) because I have no idea how good they are (read I know they're bad)
Even if you are the jungler, the chances are pretty large your team won'e help you counterjungle, but their team will react. And then you are "worst jungler ever" according to the people who died 3 times before 10 min.
/all 'GG WORST JUNGLE, NO GANKS!' - meanwhile you're level 3, just killed your red and shaco ganked at level 2 because your bot laned pushed the lane all the way to the enemy tower.
How's new Xin? He probably jungles like a boss with new passive.
He does indeed jungle like a boss. He also top lanes like a boss, though he has no escape, so he's prone to getting ganked. He's a great duelist, and a great ganker, and his clear times aren't bad. You don't even need to buy wriggle's on him if you just get 3 early points in his W, because the sustain from it is very nice, and the attack speed when you pop it helps clear pretty quickly, and when you have your first blue you can use E and Q to clear faster as well. I tried him both as pure damage and tanky DPS out of the jungle, and I have to say, I think tanky DPS is the way to go. You will die very fast to the other team if you try to carry dive built glass cannon unless you manage to get 3+ people with your ult very early in the fight, which is tough since you don't want to use it until you get on the carry.
I think my standard build for him will be like this: boots/3->avarice blade->phage->wit's end->brutallizer->finish frozen mallet->GA->Finish Youmuu's. Obviously boots 2 somewhere in there. Last item would probably be a frozen heart if I got that late in the game, because CDR is great on him, but you couldn't really go wrong with anything, and Youmuu gives you some CDR anyway. With this build if you get 3+ people in your ult you are just not going to die, and you can either carry dive like a boss, or peel for your carry, depending on the team comps.
Honestly, Shaco isn't even close to actually being worth a ban in my opinion. It's mostly just that he's really annoying to play against that gets him banned I think.
When play with a large number of randoms (read more than 0) I need to ban things they will feed even if that champion isn't OP (read Shaco, Kass, and Alistar) because I have no idea how good they are (read I know they're bad)
Tangential, but Alistar does not belong in the same reasons for banning that Shaco and Kassadin do at all. Shaco is countered by careful play and falls off a cliff if he doesn't feed. Kassadin has like 50 counters in lane. Alistar once he has mobility boots can rage in through your tri brush bot/top lane depending on what side you are and still get there to guarantee a kill even if you're only extended to the river. Also, once he has his ult he gets to tower dive with impunity every time it's up, and he doesn't fall off late game no matter what items he has, because he pops his ult and unless you have a dearth of true damage you're not killing him while it's up, meanwhile he's either peeling for his carries or keeping your AD carry out of the fight completely.
Alistar should probably be the number 1 ban every game, and he really has been lately in all the games I've played. He gets banned in most every ranked game at the highest ELOs too, where Shaco and Kassadin rarely ever are banned. The difference is there really isn't counter play to Alistar.
Even if you are the jungler, the chances are pretty large your team won'e help you counterjungle, but their team will react. And then you are "worst jungler ever" according to the people who died 3 times before 10 min.
/all 'GG WORST JUNGLE, NO GANKS!' - meanwhile you're level 3, just killed your red and shaco ganked at level 2 because your bot laned pushed the lane all the way to the enemy tower.
I tell my teams the same thing I tell the other team if they all chat rage on their jungler. It's not the jungler's job to baby sit your lanes, and if you die to ganks, you should probably learn to buy wards and play more carefully.
Don't get me wrong, when I jungle, I'm not going to let a lane get camped without counter ganking and trying to help them get back in the game, because I understand that if they get put behind by an early gank that kills them or forces them out, it's not their fault, and if they get camped, they are going to need the help, but you're not going to get it if you just rage without ever asking politely for assistance.
I went up last night against a XinZhao/Pantheon bot lane last night. I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be a kill lane, but it ended up being a feed lane. I'm pretty sure they could have gotten kills if they'd been a bit smarter about their engagements, but they played the lane pretty terribly.
Kill lanes are always high risk though, and partly depend on their opponents simply not being familiar with how to counter or at least survive them. They fall behind, and yeah, they will feed.
Yeah, a Panth/Xin bot lane should just jump on the AD carry and blow him up. Panth jump stun plus Xin dash, W, Q knockup should be the end of an AD, and depending on the support they'd pretty much just be watching it happen, but those lanes are always hit and miss. If they don't get ahead and deny the enemy AD all they really do is put their team at a huge disadvantage having no AD carry unless they sent one top, which may or may not get the AD murdered depending on the enemy top lane.
Yeah, a Panth/Xin bot lane should just jump on the AD carry and blow him up. Panth jump stun plus Xin dash, W, Q knockup should be the end of an AD, and depending on the support they'd pretty much just be watching it happen, but those lanes are always hit and miss. If they don't get ahead and deny the enemy AD all they really do is put their team at a huge disadvantage having no AD carry unless they sent one top, which may or may not get the AD murdered depending on the enemy top lane.
Panth took spear first and xin took dash first, which was an odd and, in my opinion, ridiculously ineffective choice. At level 1 I was free to run around as Janna shielding myself from pantheon's spears and harassing xin into oblivion. He tried to dash at me once, but my ashe laid into him so hard he didn't have the stones to cs for almost the next minute. By the time they were level 2 and had their kill tools they were so low HP that the alistar gank was just a signal for us to use our flashes and bait them far enough to score a double kill.
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Also, last night I tried SivHD's powerleveller Janna, and it was amazing.
I was level 18 when everyone else was level 13 or so, and I absolutely crushed Cassiopeia in lane. She started raging late game about janna having too much damage and pushing power.
If they nerf Alistar they're going to probably reduce the duration of his knockup and/or remove the stun component on it. I hope they don't mess with his ult, I think it's good where it is at now (at least compared to how it used to be).
And SivHD videos would be better if he didn't use that silly voice in all of his guide videos, would rather him just speak normally.
If they nerf Alistar they're going to probably reduce the duration of his knockup and/or remove the stun component on it. I hope they don't mess with his ult, I think it's good where it is at now (at least compared to how it used to be).
And SivHD videos would be better if he didn't use that silly voice in all of his guide videos, would rather him just speak normally.
If anything, I think they'll add tenacity ratios to popups. That would be enough.
If they nerf Alistar they're going to probably reduce the duration of his knockup and/or remove the stun component on it. I hope they don't mess with his ult, I think it's good where it is at now (at least compared to how it used to be).
And SivHD videos would be better if he didn't use that silly voice in all of his guide videos, would rather him just speak normally.
I don't think they should nerf him. He isn't a duelist he just brings a lot to team fights. He can have his jungle taken constantly. All I can see them doing is maybe increasing his mana costs so he can't bully a lane so much. Which is what they're doing. He can be stopped in lane by warding bushes and having a counter aggressive support.
his jungle is so easy to counter. He'll lose his red most of the time (even thought he doesn't need it). He has to get those early gank's as well, or he'll fall behind.
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Attack speed marks are the only way to go on him because of the synergy with his E IMO, then armor yellow, MR blue like usual, and I run armor quints. You could really do whatever quints you like, MS or whatever, but Mundo is very untanky at early levels pre items, and I like the extra armor.
Yeah, I always try to get a good enough leash on blue to not smite, then take their red, then gank top or bot at level 3 while they're 2. Even without boots, you can usually get a kill, especially on top because they're all but guaranteed to not have a ward yet. If our level 1 is much better I'll sometimes invade their blue, but usually only if I'm in a premade 5 and don't think we'll botch it.
I always start armor/5. You lose a lot of health burning his abilities so the potions are nice, and until you get your HoG and spirit visage you'll usually need to buy a couple pots each back along with your wards. Once you have your ult you can also use it for jungle sustain if you get sub 50% and don't want to have to back. Don't just hold it, because the CD is fairly short anyway.
As somebody who tried him before I was better at jungle and left him and came back, I would say make sure you don't try to play him like a tanky CC jungler like a Nautilus, Maokai, etc. Your priority on Mundo is to clear your jungle fast as hell, then clear the other guy's jungle fast as hell, and don't try to create ganks. Just do them when they're there. If your lanes let you know somebody is primed, their ward is down, their health is low enough, etc., or if you're just nearby and see an opportunity, then gank for them, but with Mundo you can keep your Exp/CS almost in line with your solo lanes and also keep the enemy jungler down by stealing his camps, so you're more farmed mid game than he is.
My build hasn't changed much from game to game. I go armor/5, boots 1, Heart of Gold, spirit visage, boots 2(can do this before visage if you want the mobility, merc or tabi are both good, then warmog's, then I either build zeke's herald if my team has multiple auto attackers(it's a good item for Mundo himself too and fairly cheap), or I build Wit's end for some MR and even more damage from your super strong auto attacks with E up, punching in their AD carry's face.
Randuin's, Aegis, and any other thing that's good is obviously also good on him, but it's just according to what you want, and my support always has an aegis early, and I'd rather go with my build than double aegis. In team fights, poke with cleavers to chunk people(it's based on % current health) pre fight, then once an engagement starts, turn on W, keep E up all the time, and punch their AD carry in the face. Try to hold your ult until you're ~50% health if you can since it costs 20% current to use, and they'll probably ignite you when they see the ult, but if you can stick on their AD carry, you at half health are going to have going on 300 AD just with E up, and between that, W, wit's end, and cleavers, you can straight up kill their AD carry or chase them out of the fight completely.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I like that knockups are unique to stuns though. ]:
They aren't. Off the top of my head, Janna's tornado and collateral hits from Lee Sin and Nautilus' ultimates pop up but don't actually stun. I think Three-Talon Strike's last hit has no stun to it either.
Now matter how far you put Alistar behind, he isn't behind. He's like Amumu in a sense. You can stifle his jungle all you want but once he has his ult he brings a lot to the game. Alistar just ganks better and is less item reliant since his ult gives him the beef, unlike Amumu who needs items to reach the same level.
And if there's enough community outcry against something it gets nerfed, whether it deserves changing or not.
If they nerf Alistar they're going to probably reduce the duration of his knockup and/or remove the stun component on it. I hope they don't mess with his ult, I think it's good where it is at now (at least compared to how it used to be).
And SivHD videos would be better if he didn't use that silly voice in all of his guide videos, would rather him just speak normally.
I don't think they should nerf him. He isn't a duelist he just brings a lot to team fights. He can have his jungle taken constantly. All I can see them doing is maybe increasing his mana costs so he can't bully a lane so much. Which is what they're doing. He can be stopped in lane by warding bushes and having a counter aggressive support.
his jungle is so easy to counter. He'll lose his red most of the time (even thought he doesn't need it). He has to get those early gank's as well, or he'll fall behind.
I know his weaknesses, and nerfing his passive and his early heal mana costs was a step in the right direction, but Ali jungle even if counter jungled isn't going to be worthless. There is simply no other jungler who has non skillshot non tenacity reduced CC as powerful as his, and because of it his ganks are just so good. Plus as I mentioned, his ult is basically a free double kill bot if he just dives you from behind even if you're at the turret, if he times it before your jungle and mid can react and his bot lane is ready.
I agree if he doesn't get successful ganks and you counter jungle him hard he can fall behind, but the same can be said of any jungler in the game, and the rest of them don't have 70% damage reduction for 7 seconds to make them relevant in team fights no matter how underfarmed they are.
I don't necessarily want them to nerf his kit into the ground or anything. I think his headbutt should probably be a skillshot, and that might be enough.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Attack speed marks are the only way to go on him because of the synergy with his E IMO, then armor yellow, MR blue like usual, and I run armor quints. You could really do whatever quints you like, MS or whatever, but Mundo is very untanky at early levels pre items, and I like the extra armor.
Yeah, I always try to get a good enough leash on blue to not smite, then take their red, then gank top or bot at level 3 while they're 2. Even without boots, you can usually get a kill, especially on top because they're all but guaranteed to not have a ward yet. If our level 1 is much better I'll sometimes invade their blue, but usually only if I'm in a premade 5 and don't think we'll botch it.
I always start armor/5. You lose a lot of health burning his abilities so the potions are nice, and until you get your HoG and spirit visage you'll usually need to buy a couple pots each back along with your wards. Once you have your ult you can also use it for jungle sustain if you get sub 50% and don't want to have to back. Don't just hold it, because the CD is fairly short anyway.
As somebody who tried him before I was better at jungle and left him and came back, I would say make sure you don't try to play him like a tanky CC jungler like a Nautilus, Maokai, etc. Your priority on Mundo is to clear your jungle fast as hell, then clear the other guy's jungle fast as hell, and don't try to create ganks. Just do them when they're there. If your lanes let you know somebody is primed, their ward is down, their health is low enough, etc., or if you're just nearby and see an opportunity, then gank for them, but with Mundo you can keep your Exp/CS almost in line with your solo lanes and also keep the enemy jungler down by stealing his camps, so you're more farmed mid game than he is.
My build hasn't changed much from game to game. I go armor/5, boots 1, Heart of Gold, spirit visage, boots 2(can do this before visage if you want the mobility, merc or tabi are both good, then warmog's, then I either build zeke's herald if my team has multiple auto attackers(it's a good item for Mundo himself too and fairly cheap), or I build Wit's end for some MR and even more damage from your super strong auto attacks with E up, punching in their AD carry's face.
Randuin's, Aegis, and any other thing that's good is obviously also good on him, but it's just according to what you want, and my support always has an aegis early, and I'd rather go with my build than double aegis. In team fights, poke with cleavers to chunk people(it's based on % current health) pre fight, then once an engagement starts, turn on W, keep E up all the time, and punch their AD carry in the face. Try to hold your ult until you're ~50% health if you can since it costs 20% current to use, and they'll probably ignite you when they see the ult, but if you can stick on their AD carry, you at half health are going to have going on 300 AD just with E up, and between that, W, wit's end, and cleavers, you can straight up kill their AD carry or chase them out of the fight completely.
I run two regen quints and a ms quint so I don't have to buy a third, but otherwise agree with that rune methodology and general plan of action. You don't have to do the blue -> red route every game, and shouldn't; it's predictable. A clear where you double up on wraiths or wolves and pick up your buff of choice, then intercept a jungler or aggressive lane, is equally effective. I had a ranked a while ago where I told my team to push bottom and cut him off at red quickly, and that was first blood. It can also end badly versus defensive routes on some other junglers, notably Shyvana. It's worth considering getting a Frozen Mallet rather than a Warmog's, and building the Zeke's from spare parts while working on other items depending on how much gold you came back with. Otherwise, we're in agreement here.
I could see hp regen quints being solid too, and I might pick them up to play with later when I have more IP. Thanks for that suggestion. I typically just do my blue, their red against anybody I know is going to start blue. Sure, an Amumu, Nautilus, etc. could start their red first to counter it, but they usually won't, especially in a non team environment. I don't aggressively counter jungle at the beginning of the game against a similarly fast clear/counter jungler like Shyv or Udyr typically. I definitely think going red first and a level 2 gank is a solid choice too, especially if it's going to be purple side so you will be ganking top really early, or invading them level 1 as a team if they have a weak level 1.
I don't see any situation where I'd go Mallet over Warmog's though. It's more expensive, has 570 less HP(I consider HP to be the primary stat I want on Mundo if I have to choose one because of his ult and his kit in general) and I only ever go Mallet over Warmog's if I feel the champion needs the sticking power of Mallet, which I don't feel Mundo does because of Cleaver. It's the same reason I build Warmog instead of mallet on Olaf, but do build mallet on Shyvana.
For the Zeke's, if I think I'm going to build it I always try to just pick up the kindlegem at some point and finish it later.
So funny thing happened yesterday. I was duo queue with @programjunkie and we were playing bottom lane (me Blitz, him Twitch) vs Ashe and Sona. Right when the game starts the Ashe starts saying in all chat something along the lines of "<Random twitch.tv link> Watch my stream as I own you scrublords" or something to that effect.
We absolutely destroyed them. Best part was having the opportunity to taunt the shit out of Ashe after we raped her.
I'm not a proponent of being negative at all in game, but because she acted first, I would have made sure after every time you killed her you said in all chat "It looks like we just put YOU on Twitch TV," you know, because your AD was a Twitch........ =P
I think making puns at people who rage is the best. I was playing Mundo and the other team's Janna was raging after she did a fail ult that got half her team killed unnecessarily, so I told her I was going to hire her as VP of tornadoes.
I'm not a proponent of being negative at all in game, but because she acted first, I would have made sure after every time you killed her you said in all chat "It looks like we just put YOU on Twitch TV," you know, because your AD was a Twitch........ =P
I don't think bad puns can ever be considered being negative.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Yeah, I hate playing Tank Mundo+W primary in the jungle. Just feels like he can't get as much done in duels.
I run him AS/armor/MR/arpen, 21/9/0 or 19/11/0
Vamp start unless you really need an initial ward
Start red/enemy red on invade, give away first blue
EQ gank or EW clear
afterwards E > W > Q. Use Q mainly for the slow, not for damage
Vamp
Boots->Merc's (fast Merc's so good for running someone down in early ganks)
Kindlegem->Visage
Kindlegem->Zeke's (seriously. AS on E build, lifesteal, cdr, everything Mundo wants)
usual trinity of Warmog's/Atma's/FoN in whatever order you want
Mundo's ganks are primarily walkup or counterganks IME, not river ganks. He can do it but he's not as good at it. Your main goal is monster control. Make sure enemy jungler has no red so he doesn't gank as well, make sure enemy mid has no blue so your mid wins lane.
If his headbutt is a skillshot then he gets an escape for free. Furthermore it could help if you screw up the combo because you purposely just headbutt in front of the target and pulverize once you're past them; now they have to walk around you as you slap them around.
If his headbutt is a skillshot then he gets an escape for free. Furthermore it could help if you screw up the combo because you purposely just headbutt in front of the target and pulverize once you're past them; now they have to walk around you as you slap them around.
Fantastic points. They should probably just make his CC reduced by tenacity, lol. Unless they made his headbutt work more like an Amumu bandage, where you have to land it on somebody. /shrug
They could reduce the height of his knockup perhaps, like they did with janna's quick knockup.
Or they could reduce the distance he headbutts people.
They could also decrease the range of headbutt. Those three things would be significant nerfs to alistar.
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Yeah, I hate playing Tank Mundo+W primary in the jungle. Just feels like he can't get as much done in duels.
I run him AS/armor/MR/arpen, 21/9/0 or 19/11/0
Vamp start unless you really need an initial ward
Start red/enemy red on invade, give away first blue
EQ gank or EW clear
afterwards E > W > Q. Use Q mainly for the slow, not for damage
Vamp
Boots->Merc's (fast Merc's so good for running someone down in early ganks)
Kindlegem->Visage
Kindlegem->Zeke's (seriously. AS on E build, lifesteal, cdr, everything Mundo wants)
usual trinity of Warmog's/Atma's/FoN in whatever order you want
Mundo's ganks are primarily walkup or counterganks IME, not river ganks. He can do it but he's not as good at it. Your main goal is monster control. Make sure enemy jungler has no red so he doesn't gank as well, make sure enemy mid has no blue so your mid wins lane.
W>E>Q tanky Mundo is a terrific duelist too. Anybody who gets a BF sword and then some worth of AD by level 3 at the latest is not a weak duelist. Part of winning duels is your defense too. I run TheOddOne's Mundo masteries, which are full tank 1/29/0. That being said, I have no problem with your suggestion either, and for somebody who wants more damage with the sacrifice of some tankiness and a minute amount of clear speed by not maxing W first, it would most assuredly still be effective. I definitely agree that objective control and counter jungling in general is Mundo's biggest asset.
If his headbutt is a skillshot then he gets an escape for free. Furthermore it could help if you screw up the combo because you purposely just headbutt in front of the target and pulverize once you're past them; now they have to walk around you as you slap them around.
Fantastic points. They should probably just make his CC reduced by tenacity, lol. Unless they made his headbutt work more like an Amumu bandage, where you have to land it on somebody. /shrug
Not sure how it would work. A skillshot would make alistar even better. Making the distance he head butts less would go a little bit of the way, but it would make w then waiting a few seconds then 'q' even worse, it would allow him to not do his combo but still get you.
They could change his ult around. shorten the duration I guess, it would make him less of a bully in team fights. They probably just end up increasing the mana costs.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I could see hp regen quints being solid too, and I might pick them up to play with later when I have more IP. Thanks for that suggestion. I typically just do my blue, their red against anybody I know is going to start blue. Sure, an Amumu, Nautilus, etc. could start their red first to counter it, but they usually won't, especially in a non team environment. I don't aggressively counter jungle at the beginning of the game against a similarly fast clear/counter jungler like Shyv or Udyr typically. I definitely think going red first and a level 2 gank is a solid choice too, especially if it's going to be purple side so you will be ganking top really early, or invading them level 1 as a team if they have a weak level 1.
I don't see any situation where I'd go Mallet over Warmog's though. It's more expensive, has 570 less HP(I consider HP to be the primary stat I want on Mundo if I have to choose one because of his ult and his kit in general) and I only ever go Mallet over Warmog's if I feel the champion needs the sticking power of Mallet, which I don't feel Mundo does because of Cleaver. It's the same reason I build Warmog instead of mallet on Olaf, but do build mallet on Shyvana.
For the Zeke's, if I think I'm going to build it I always try to just pick up the kindlegem at some point and finish it later.
My experience of Warmog's has been that it only works if you rush it or have the map on lockdown. Mallet always works. YMMV, it's not the end of the world.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Yeah, I hate playing Tank Mundo+W primary in the jungle. Just feels like he can't get as much done in duels.
I run him AS/armor/MR/arpen, 21/9/0 or 19/11/0
Vamp start unless you really need an initial ward
Start red/enemy red on invade, give away first blue
EQ gank or EW clear
afterwards E > W > Q. Use Q mainly for the slow, not for damage
Vamp
Boots->Merc's (fast Merc's so good for running someone down in early ganks)
Kindlegem->Visage
Kindlegem->Zeke's (seriously. AS on E build, lifesteal, cdr, everything Mundo wants)
usual trinity of Warmog's/Atma's/FoN in whatever order you want
Mundo's ganks are primarily walkup or counterganks IME, not river ganks. He can do it but he's not as good at it. Your main goal is monster control. Make sure enemy jungler has no red so he doesn't gank as well, make sure enemy mid has no blue so your mid wins lane.
W>E>Q tanky Mundo is a terrific duelist too. Anybody who gets a BF sword and then some worth of AD by level 3 at the latest is not a weak duelist. Part of winning duels is your defense too. I run TheOddOne's Mundo masteries, which are full tank 1/29/0. That being said, I have no problem with your suggestion either, and for somebody who wants more damage with the sacrifice of some tankiness and a minute amount of clear speed by not maxing W first, it would most assuredly still be effective. I definitely agree that objective control and counter jungling in general is Mundo's biggest asset.
IME, tanky W Mundo cannot gank because he burns too much HP clearing his jungle and is forced to burn ult for HP. Manly E Mundo stays very healthy when clearing and can thus afford to hold ult for the speed boost when ganking or otherwise in a fight.
That's also why I say he's a better duelist, because he's safer and has the early lifesteal to win fights. Starting W+cloth doesn't give you that.
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First rule of jungling:
It is always your fault.
Just say that you're at fault in pre-game chat, and the game will typically go better.
When play with a large number of randoms (read more than 0) I need to ban things they will feed even if that champion isn't OP (read Shaco, Kass, and Alistar) because I have no idea how good they are (read I know they're bad)
/all 'GG WORST JUNGLE, NO GANKS!' - meanwhile you're level 3, just killed your red and shaco ganked at level 2 because your bot laned pushed the lane all the way to the enemy tower.
He does indeed jungle like a boss. He also top lanes like a boss, though he has no escape, so he's prone to getting ganked. He's a great duelist, and a great ganker, and his clear times aren't bad. You don't even need to buy wriggle's on him if you just get 3 early points in his W, because the sustain from it is very nice, and the attack speed when you pop it helps clear pretty quickly, and when you have your first blue you can use E and Q to clear faster as well. I tried him both as pure damage and tanky DPS out of the jungle, and I have to say, I think tanky DPS is the way to go. You will die very fast to the other team if you try to carry dive built glass cannon unless you manage to get 3+ people with your ult very early in the fight, which is tough since you don't want to use it until you get on the carry.
I think my standard build for him will be like this: boots/3->avarice blade->phage->wit's end->brutallizer->finish frozen mallet->GA->Finish Youmuu's. Obviously boots 2 somewhere in there. Last item would probably be a frozen heart if I got that late in the game, because CDR is great on him, but you couldn't really go wrong with anything, and Youmuu gives you some CDR anyway. With this build if you get 3+ people in your ult you are just not going to die, and you can either carry dive like a boss, or peel for your carry, depending on the team comps.
Tangential, but Alistar does not belong in the same reasons for banning that Shaco and Kassadin do at all. Shaco is countered by careful play and falls off a cliff if he doesn't feed. Kassadin has like 50 counters in lane. Alistar once he has mobility boots can rage in through your tri brush bot/top lane depending on what side you are and still get there to guarantee a kill even if you're only extended to the river. Also, once he has his ult he gets to tower dive with impunity every time it's up, and he doesn't fall off late game no matter what items he has, because he pops his ult and unless you have a dearth of true damage you're not killing him while it's up, meanwhile he's either peeling for his carries or keeping your AD carry out of the fight completely.
Alistar should probably be the number 1 ban every game, and he really has been lately in all the games I've played. He gets banned in most every ranked game at the highest ELOs too, where Shaco and Kassadin rarely ever are banned. The difference is there really isn't counter play to Alistar.
I tell my teams the same thing I tell the other team if they all chat rage on their jungler. It's not the jungler's job to baby sit your lanes, and if you die to ganks, you should probably learn to buy wards and play more carefully.
Don't get me wrong, when I jungle, I'm not going to let a lane get camped without counter ganking and trying to help them get back in the game, because I understand that if they get put behind by an early gank that kills them or forces them out, it's not their fault, and if they get camped, they are going to need the help, but you're not going to get it if you just rage without ever asking politely for assistance.
Here's to incompetent opponents!
Panth took spear first and xin took dash first, which was an odd and, in my opinion, ridiculously ineffective choice. At level 1 I was free to run around as Janna shielding myself from pantheon's spears and harassing xin into oblivion. He tried to dash at me once, but my ashe laid into him so hard he didn't have the stones to cs for almost the next minute. By the time they were level 2 and had their kill tools they were so low HP that the alistar gank was just a signal for us to use our flashes and bait them far enough to score a double kill.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
I was level 18 when everyone else was level 13 or so, and I absolutely crushed Cassiopeia in lane. She started raging late game about janna having too much damage and pushing power.
Victory was so very, very sweet.
[edit] Video:
And SivHD videos would be better if he didn't use that silly voice in all of his guide videos, would rather him just speak normally.
If anything, I think they'll add tenacity ratios to popups. That would be enough.
I don't think they should nerf him. He isn't a duelist he just brings a lot to team fights. He can have his jungle taken constantly. All I can see them doing is maybe increasing his mana costs so he can't bully a lane so much. Which is what they're doing. He can be stopped in lane by warding bushes and having a counter aggressive support.
his jungle is so easy to counter. He'll lose his red most of the time (even thought he doesn't need it). He has to get those early gank's as well, or he'll fall behind.
Attack speed marks are the only way to go on him because of the synergy with his E IMO, then armor yellow, MR blue like usual, and I run armor quints. You could really do whatever quints you like, MS or whatever, but Mundo is very untanky at early levels pre items, and I like the extra armor.
Yeah, I always try to get a good enough leash on blue to not smite, then take their red, then gank top or bot at level 3 while they're 2. Even without boots, you can usually get a kill, especially on top because they're all but guaranteed to not have a ward yet. If our level 1 is much better I'll sometimes invade their blue, but usually only if I'm in a premade 5 and don't think we'll botch it.
I always start armor/5. You lose a lot of health burning his abilities so the potions are nice, and until you get your HoG and spirit visage you'll usually need to buy a couple pots each back along with your wards. Once you have your ult you can also use it for jungle sustain if you get sub 50% and don't want to have to back. Don't just hold it, because the CD is fairly short anyway.
As somebody who tried him before I was better at jungle and left him and came back, I would say make sure you don't try to play him like a tanky CC jungler like a Nautilus, Maokai, etc. Your priority on Mundo is to clear your jungle fast as hell, then clear the other guy's jungle fast as hell, and don't try to create ganks. Just do them when they're there. If your lanes let you know somebody is primed, their ward is down, their health is low enough, etc., or if you're just nearby and see an opportunity, then gank for them, but with Mundo you can keep your Exp/CS almost in line with your solo lanes and also keep the enemy jungler down by stealing his camps, so you're more farmed mid game than he is.
My build hasn't changed much from game to game. I go armor/5, boots 1, Heart of Gold, spirit visage, boots 2(can do this before visage if you want the mobility, merc or tabi are both good, then warmog's, then I either build zeke's herald if my team has multiple auto attackers(it's a good item for Mundo himself too and fairly cheap), or I build Wit's end for some MR and even more damage from your super strong auto attacks with E up, punching in their AD carry's face.
Randuin's, Aegis, and any other thing that's good is obviously also good on him, but it's just according to what you want, and my support always has an aegis early, and I'd rather go with my build than double aegis. In team fights, poke with cleavers to chunk people(it's based on % current health) pre fight, then once an engagement starts, turn on W, keep E up all the time, and punch their AD carry in the face. Try to hold your ult until you're ~50% health if you can since it costs 20% current to use, and they'll probably ignite you when they see the ult, but if you can stick on their AD carry, you at half health are going to have going on 300 AD just with E up, and between that, W, wit's end, and cleavers, you can straight up kill their AD carry or chase them out of the fight completely.
They aren't. Off the top of my head, Janna's tornado and collateral hits from Lee Sin and Nautilus' ultimates pop up but don't actually stun. I think Three-Talon Strike's last hit has no stun to it either.
And if there's enough community outcry against something it gets nerfed, whether it deserves changing or not.
I know his weaknesses, and nerfing his passive and his early heal mana costs was a step in the right direction, but Ali jungle even if counter jungled isn't going to be worthless. There is simply no other jungler who has non skillshot non tenacity reduced CC as powerful as his, and because of it his ganks are just so good. Plus as I mentioned, his ult is basically a free double kill bot if he just dives you from behind even if you're at the turret, if he times it before your jungle and mid can react and his bot lane is ready.
I agree if he doesn't get successful ganks and you counter jungle him hard he can fall behind, but the same can be said of any jungler in the game, and the rest of them don't have 70% damage reduction for 7 seconds to make them relevant in team fights no matter how underfarmed they are.
I don't necessarily want them to nerf his kit into the ground or anything. I think his headbutt should probably be a skillshot, and that might be enough.
I run two regen quints and a ms quint so I don't have to buy a third, but otherwise agree with that rune methodology and general plan of action. You don't have to do the blue -> red route every game, and shouldn't; it's predictable. A clear where you double up on wraiths or wolves and pick up your buff of choice, then intercept a jungler or aggressive lane, is equally effective. I had a ranked a while ago where I told my team to push bottom and cut him off at red quickly, and that was first blood. It can also end badly versus defensive routes on some other junglers, notably Shyvana. It's worth considering getting a Frozen Mallet rather than a Warmog's, and building the Zeke's from spare parts while working on other items depending on how much gold you came back with. Otherwise, we're in agreement here.
I don't see any situation where I'd go Mallet over Warmog's though. It's more expensive, has 570 less HP(I consider HP to be the primary stat I want on Mundo if I have to choose one because of his ult and his kit in general) and I only ever go Mallet over Warmog's if I feel the champion needs the sticking power of Mallet, which I don't feel Mundo does because of Cleaver. It's the same reason I build Warmog instead of mallet on Olaf, but do build mallet on Shyvana.
For the Zeke's, if I think I'm going to build it I always try to just pick up the kindlegem at some point and finish it later.
We absolutely destroyed them. Best part was having the opportunity to taunt the shit out of Ashe after we raped her.
I think making puns at people who rage is the best. I was playing Mundo and the other team's Janna was raging after she did a fail ult that got half her team killed unnecessarily, so I told her I was going to hire her as VP of tornadoes.
I don't think bad puns can ever be considered being negative.
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Mundo's ganks are primarily walkup or counterganks IME, not river ganks. He can do it but he's not as good at it. Your main goal is monster control. Make sure enemy jungler has no red so he doesn't gank as well, make sure enemy mid has no blue so your mid wins lane.
Fantastic points. They should probably just make his CC reduced by tenacity, lol. Unless they made his headbutt work more like an Amumu bandage, where you have to land it on somebody. /shrug
Or they could reduce the distance he headbutts people.
They could also decrease the range of headbutt. Those three things would be significant nerfs to alistar.
W>E>Q tanky Mundo is a terrific duelist too. Anybody who gets a BF sword and then some worth of AD by level 3 at the latest is not a weak duelist. Part of winning duels is your defense too. I run TheOddOne's Mundo masteries, which are full tank 1/29/0. That being said, I have no problem with your suggestion either, and for somebody who wants more damage with the sacrifice of some tankiness and a minute amount of clear speed by not maxing W first, it would most assuredly still be effective. I definitely agree that objective control and counter jungling in general is Mundo's biggest asset.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Not sure how it would work. A skillshot would make alistar even better. Making the distance he head butts less would go a little bit of the way, but it would make w then waiting a few seconds then 'q' even worse, it would allow him to not do his combo but still get you.
They could change his ult around. shorten the duration I guess, it would make him less of a bully in team fights. They probably just end up increasing the mana costs.
My experience of Warmog's has been that it only works if you rush it or have the map on lockdown. Mallet always works. YMMV, it's not the end of the world.
That's also why I say he's a better duelist, because he's safer and has the early lifesteal to win fights. Starting W+cloth doesn't give you that.