IME, tanky W Mundo cannot gank because he burns too much HP clearing his jungle and is forced to burn ult for HP. Manly E Mundo stays very healthy when clearing and can thus afford to hold ult for the speed boost when ganking or otherwise in a fight.
That's also why I say he's a better duelist, because he's safer and has the early lifesteal to win fights. Starting W+cloth doesn't give you that.
I could see hp regen quints being solid too, and I might pick them up to play with later when I have more IP. Thanks for that suggestion. I typically just do my blue, their red against anybody I know is going to start blue. Sure, an Amumu, Nautilus, etc. could start their red first to counter it, but they usually won't, especially in a non team environment. I don't aggressively counter jungle at the beginning of the game against a similarly fast clear/counter jungler like Shyv or Udyr typically. I definitely think going red first and a level 2 gank is a solid choice too, especially if it's going to be purple side so you will be ganking top really early, or invading them level 1 as a team if they have a weak level 1.
I don't see any situation where I'd go Mallet over Warmog's though. It's more expensive, has 570 less HP(I consider HP to be the primary stat I want on Mundo if I have to choose one because of his ult and his kit in general) and I only ever go Mallet over Warmog's if I feel the champion needs the sticking power of Mallet, which I don't feel Mundo does because of Cleaver. It's the same reason I build Warmog instead of mallet on Olaf, but do build mallet on Shyvana.
For the Zeke's, if I think I'm going to build it I always try to just pick up the kindlegem at some point and finish it later.
My experience of Warmog's has been that it only works if you rush it or have the map on lockdown. Mallet always works. YMMV, it's not the end of the world.
Yeah, I don't think either one is a wrong choice. Even if you didn't power up your Warmog's at all though, it's still 220 more HP than Mallet, and cheaper, and I just don't like building mallet on champs who already have slows in their kits. Definitely neither one is a wrong choice though.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I could see hp regen quints being solid too, and I might pick them up to play with later when I have more IP. Thanks for that suggestion. I typically just do my blue, their red against anybody I know is going to start blue. Sure, an Amumu, Nautilus, etc. could start their red first to counter it, but they usually won't, especially in a non team environment. I don't aggressively counter jungle at the beginning of the game against a similarly fast clear/counter jungler like Shyv or Udyr typically. I definitely think going red first and a level 2 gank is a solid choice too, especially if it's going to be purple side so you will be ganking top really early, or invading them level 1 as a team if they have a weak level 1.
I don't see any situation where I'd go Mallet over Warmog's though. It's more expensive, has 570 less HP(I consider HP to be the primary stat I want on Mundo if I have to choose one because of his ult and his kit in general) and I only ever go Mallet over Warmog's if I feel the champion needs the sticking power of Mallet, which I don't feel Mundo does because of Cleaver. It's the same reason I build Warmog instead of mallet on Olaf, but do build mallet on Shyvana.
For the Zeke's, if I think I'm going to build it I always try to just pick up the kindlegem at some point and finish it later.
My experience of Warmog's has been that it only works if you rush it or have the map on lockdown. Mallet always works. YMMV, it's not the end of the world.
Yeah, I don't think either one is a wrong choice. Even if you didn't power up your Warmog's at all though, it's still 220 more HP than Mallet, and cheaper, and I just don't like building mallet on champs who already have slows in their kits. Definitely neither one is a wrong choice though.
Yep. It's a decision-point. I really like being inescapable and being able to use cleaver to throw at other people or start catching them, personally. Also I start the Zeke's with the vamp scepter most times. You have to figure out what works for you with any given dude.
Speaking of Mundo, I had the funniest thing happen to me in a while last night. Me and my team invaded and took Amumu's blue, because I'm Mundo and I chuck briefcases where I want after all. They had a super weak level 1. Anyway, I get his blue, then go get my red and blue, and then I go to clear my wraiths. I hit a giant lag spike for like a full minute, I can't do anything. The game just kept running my W for so many seconds too, so I knew my HP was getting low.
I come back from the DC with an angry full health Amumu on top of me at wraiths, and I'm sitting at about 30% health. I cleaver him and run for my inner turret. He exhausts me, I keep running. He fully commits, so I put on my juking shoes, bait out the bandage, cleaver him again, and just run circles around my turret and he dies and I live at about 5% health. It was just so funny because I know exactly that feeling of misery when you decide to exhaust and go all in for the turret dive, and you reach the point of no return where you just know you're going to die, and you just hope to take the other guy with you and you end up the only one dying.
I made sure to speak up for him when their mid Soraka started flaming him in all chat for not ganking her lane though, saying it's not only his fault he got a slow start. Besides, he was ganking other lanes anyway and trying. She was just getting stomped by our Akali, which really should not happen to a Soraka pre 6 at all. She was just bad.
how do you rune him?
I'm interested to try him out. And you normal go hard leash blue --> invade their red? armor pots start?
Yeah, I hate playing Tank Mundo+W primary in the jungle. Just feels like he can't get as much done in duels.
I run him AS/armor/MR/arpen, 21/9/0 or 19/11/0
Vamp start unless you really need an initial ward
Start red/enemy red on invade, give away first blue
EQ gank or EW clear
afterwards E > W > Q. Use Q mainly for the slow, not for damage
Vamp
Boots->Merc's (fast Merc's so good for running someone down in early ganks)
Kindlegem->Visage
Kindlegem->Zeke's (seriously. AS on E build, lifesteal, cdr, everything Mundo wants)
usual trinity of Warmog's/Atma's/FoN in whatever order you want
Mundo's ganks are primarily walkup or counterganks IME, not river ganks. He can do it but he's not as good at it. Your main goal is monster control. Make sure enemy jungler has no red so he doesn't gank as well, make sure enemy mid has no blue so your mid wins lane.
W>E>Q tanky Mundo is a terrific duelist too. Anybody who gets a BF sword and then some worth of AD by level 3 at the latest is not a weak duelist. Part of winning duels is your defense too. I run TheOddOne's Mundo masteries, which are full tank 1/29/0. That being said, I have no problem with your suggestion either, and for somebody who wants more damage with the sacrifice of some tankiness and a minute amount of clear speed by not maxing W first, it would most assuredly still be effective. I definitely agree that objective control and counter jungling in general is Mundo's biggest asset.
IME, tanky W Mundo cannot gank because he burns too much HP clearing his jungle and is forced to burn ult for HP. Manly E Mundo stays very healthy when clearing and can thus afford to hold ult for the speed boost when ganking or otherwise in a fight.
That's also why I say he's a better duelist, because he's safer and has the early lifesteal to win fights. Starting W+cloth doesn't give you that.
I gank all the time running 1/29 max W first Mundo. You don't burn that much HP using W unless you don't use it effectively. I use W and E on camps, auto attack each one, they blow up, and I can turn off W before the last auto attack that clears the camp. I always gank after I'm double buffed, and my HP is never too low to do so. Especially once you have a spirit visage, Mundo's passive alone regenerates him fast enough to not buy potions any more and still stay high health in the jungle. Maxing W first lowers the amount of time the camps are attacking you, so it saves you HP compared to taking longer to clear the camps if you didn't max it.
Again, your way is fine, it's just a little different and not the way I prefer to play him. I prefer him to be absolutely as tanky as possible and clear the jungle as fast as possible, and my setup gives me both those things without giving up anything. It's not even that much different than mine other than you max E by 9 and W by 13, and mine are reversed. That, and you appear to build a Zeke's before a Warmog's, where for me Warmog's always comes after visage, and I build heart of gold, though I may stop building the HoG now that they shaved some HP off it. I'll have to monitor to see how much gold it's actually bringing me compared to just not buying it.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I have never felt particularly healthy going through the jungle as W max Mundo.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
Oh man, AD Malzahar feels so good now. Malzahar in general is a lot more fluid to play (and I love that!), but AD Malz in particular has been massively improved because of the voidling AI buff. I can consistently kill people with him now!
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Well if Burnage can consistently kill someone with a champ, champ must be overpowered.
I have never felt particularly healthy going through the jungle as W max Mundo.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
getting 1 point in W before 6 helps more than getting to 3 in E and 2 Qs. It does also give you tenacity, coupled with Mercs, makes you fairly CC proof. Plus it makes your clears crazy fast. By level 5, due to itemization, you shouldnt even notice the hit your HP takes from W being up all the time. A sceptre start is E-Q-E-W-E-R. The slow is what you are looking for out of you briefcase, anyway.
I have never felt particularly healthy going through the jungle as W max Mundo.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
Having E maxed at level 9 compared to being rank 2 then, and maxed by 13 is only a difference 45 AD, not counting the additional scaling based off your HP loss, but the way you're talking, you're always at high health the way you play him, so you're certainly not going to be getting the max benefit out of E anyway. It sounds like you play more of a ganking style Mundo than max speed clearing and counter jungling, and I can't argue that maxing E first is better for that. It's just not how I play him. I've toyed with the idea of maxing E first after maybe 2 or 3 early ranks in W simply because E is so awesome. I'm going to have to test how it changes my clears, because right now i'm certainly a bit spoiled by the insane speed that maxing W gives you.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I have never felt particularly healthy going through the jungle as W max Mundo.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
getting 1 point in W before 6 helps more than getting to 3 in E and 2 Qs. It does also give you tenacity, coupled with Mercs, makes you fairly CC proof. Plus it makes your clears crazy fast. By level 5, due to itemization, you shouldnt even notice the hit your HP takes from W being up all the time. A sceptre start is E-Q-E-W-E-R. The slow is what you are looking for out of you briefcase, anyway.
Yes, absolutely. If you intend to clear after 2, go EW. If you intend to gank, go EQ. You want W by 3/4 anyway for the Tenacity. I just don't feel that early on you can take the HP/second hit as it ranks up early on for what it gives you.
I have never felt particularly healthy going through the jungle as W max Mundo.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
Having E maxed at level 9 compared to being rank 2 then, and maxed by 13 is only a difference 45 AD, not counting the additional scaling based off your HP loss, but the way you're talking, you're always at high health the way you play him, so you're certainly not going to be getting the max benefit out of E anyway. It sounds like you play more of a ganking style Mundo than max speed clearing and counter jungling, and I can't argue that maxing E first is better for that. It's just not how I play him. I've toyed with the idea of maxing E first after maybe 2 or 3 early ranks in W simply because E is so awesome. I'm going to have to test how it changes my clears, because right now i'm certainly a bit spoiled by the insane speed that maxing W gives you.
45AD at the start of the fight only, it gets better from there. And yes, you're always at high health *during jungling*, but during fights or immediately after popping ult, you're going to gain another 50AD immediately at the 1:1 ratio.
I run AS reds and 21/9/0 (or 19/11/0 if I want Bladed) as well.
The other thing is that being at low health E Mundo means you can still pop E and get a couple swings in on something without being too risky. Because of the HP/second costs, I find it much riskier to try that as W Mundo.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Tribunal keeps spoiling me. Randomly wake up and find an email giving me 1000 IP for 200 cases after I haven't been able to access the damn site for lack of cases for the better part of a week. Whatever, I'll take it.
I have literally lost every single game I have played so far except 1. I am not sure how unlucky I can be. Every single game, bot or mid has fed HARD. Last game it was both. Ez had 7 kills at 15 minutes. Our mid annie wouldn't take blue buff cause "she didn't need it." While anivia was murdering her. I mean I just can't fucking win. Dominated a shen top lane had 4 kills as jayce, nope kog had 10 by the 20 minute mark. WHY?!?!?!
Edit: The good news is that no one has blamed me for the loss. Everyone who has been hardcore feeding at least has acknowledged it. Small victories.
Update: 10th loss in a row. AD carry afks in base after 10 minutes. Seriously. The community of this game is poisoning it for me.
I love Ziggs, though I only played him when he was on free week. I dominated a few games, then I got brought back to earth hard by this Veigar who was way better than me, and had me so terrified I'd run right into his stun every time he started coming toward me. Love that little guy though. Chucking bombs is just too fun.
I remember a Veigar was pushing my shit in once real bad so I decided to cut my losses and build Merc treads instead of sorc's. Which actually worked out in my favor really well. I'd say that I do it every time against him now but I'm pretty sure I've laned against him once since then since I rarely go for mid and he's not that common of a pick anyways.
butts
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I would say that as a mid facing Veigar, it would not be untoward to rush Chalice to keep him from just blowing you up at 6.
That happened before the Cup was released and Chalice was a long forgotten item. And the tenacity helps because of how ridiculously long that stun cage stuns for. I was Lux and I would mash the shit out of W while holding shift to get that shield out.
Unless people either deny me really hard pre 6, or get merc threads I will chip them down and kill them once I get blue buff for veigar. Going qeqeqrqw means you get an guaranteed w+q+2 autos every time you stun someone from level 8 and onwards, which is sustainable to pretty much spam with blue, and there is pretty much nothing they can do to retaliate. After landing that twice you do the full combo with ignite and r, and they are dead. So either get zoned, get camped by jungler or die.
Of course, it doesn't always end up like this, pre 6 he is incredibly abusable, and if everyone gets some mr his combo can't oneshot anyone for a fairly long while.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Next time I mid against a Veigar I think I'm definitely buying a negatron cloak and probably merc treads, just so I don't feed him kills. That, or I'll just play it way safer next time. If I'm on somebody who can super easy farm waves I'll just play it uber safe and ward heavy to help my team if he roams.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
If it's Veigar, seriously just ask for jungle camping and pink his wards. He can't abuse you in lane if he doesn't cage, and if he cages, you can bait that and have your jungler kill him.
You can also chip him down from long range depending on the champion. You may also just be able to shove and force him to level his Meteor, which will affect his Q last hitting.
Am I missing something that fiddlesticks isnt played more in ranked games? Good teams just find it to easy to shut his ult down? Lux should have found it easy to harass with lucent singularity.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
Damage taken 430? lol? For reals? I mean goddamn you should be taking more on autoattacks alone from, well, *anyone*.
Fiddles is a slow as shit jungler who is easy to steal camps from, even if he's actually pretty strong 1v1. His ganks aren't spectacular pre-6 either, although he can bring some nasty post-6 ganks to the table. You also might have trouble picking him early since a good team can bring someone with a knockback to shut down his ult. Tristana is a great pick against Fiddles, for example.
Posts
Thus the regen quints on my page.
Yeah, I don't think either one is a wrong choice. Even if you didn't power up your Warmog's at all though, it's still 220 more HP than Mallet, and cheaper, and I just don't like building mallet on champs who already have slows in their kits. Definitely neither one is a wrong choice though.
Yep. It's a decision-point. I really like being inescapable and being able to use cleaver to throw at other people or start catching them, personally. Also I start the Zeke's with the vamp scepter most times. You have to figure out what works for you with any given dude.
I gank all the time running 1/29 max W first Mundo. You don't burn that much HP using W unless you don't use it effectively. I use W and E on camps, auto attack each one, they blow up, and I can turn off W before the last auto attack that clears the camp. I always gank after I'm double buffed, and my HP is never too low to do so. Especially once you have a spirit visage, Mundo's passive alone regenerates him fast enough to not buy potions any more and still stay high health in the jungle. Maxing W first lowers the amount of time the camps are attacking you, so it saves you HP compared to taking longer to clear the camps if you didn't max it.
Again, your way is fine, it's just a little different and not the way I prefer to play him. I prefer him to be absolutely as tanky as possible and clear the jungle as fast as possible, and my setup gives me both those things without giving up anything. It's not even that much different than mine other than you max E by 9 and W by 13, and mine are reversed. That, and you appear to build a Zeke's before a Warmog's, where for me Warmog's always comes after visage, and I build heart of gold, though I may stop building the HoG now that they shaved some HP off it. I'll have to monitor to see how much gold it's actually bringing me compared to just not buying it.
Getting E to 5 at Rank 9 is a minimum of more than 2 free BF swords (up to a little more than +200AD) at a point in time where the most armor you're going to see on the field is probably 120ish on the toplaner if they were against AD. That is ridiculous damage if you have AS and crit to back that. The other thing is that it means you can still do ridiculous damage even when you get down to like 2 bars and have to turn off Burning Agony for safety for fear of killing yourself.
getting 1 point in W before 6 helps more than getting to 3 in E and 2 Qs. It does also give you tenacity, coupled with Mercs, makes you fairly CC proof. Plus it makes your clears crazy fast. By level 5, due to itemization, you shouldnt even notice the hit your HP takes from W being up all the time. A sceptre start is E-Q-E-W-E-R. The slow is what you are looking for out of you briefcase, anyway.
Joe's Stream.
I keep telling people support Gangplank is OP, but they never listen
Having E maxed at level 9 compared to being rank 2 then, and maxed by 13 is only a difference 45 AD, not counting the additional scaling based off your HP loss, but the way you're talking, you're always at high health the way you play him, so you're certainly not going to be getting the max benefit out of E anyway. It sounds like you play more of a ganking style Mundo than max speed clearing and counter jungling, and I can't argue that maxing E first is better for that. It's just not how I play him. I've toyed with the idea of maxing E first after maybe 2 or 3 early ranks in W simply because E is so awesome. I'm going to have to test how it changes my clears, because right now i'm certainly a bit spoiled by the insane speed that maxing W gives you.
45AD at the start of the fight only, it gets better from there. And yes, you're always at high health *during jungling*, but during fights or immediately after popping ult, you're going to gain another 50AD immediately at the 1:1 ratio.
I run AS reds and 21/9/0 (or 19/11/0 if I want Bladed) as well.
The other thing is that being at low health E Mundo means you can still pop E and get a couple swings in on something without being too risky. Because of the HP/second costs, I find it much riskier to try that as W Mundo.
GOOD.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
They found a ridiculous bug that basically let Darius insta-pentakill the entire enemy team.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
It looks like they hit him really hard.
Exactly - it's a literal win button.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Insert joke about Darius' ult here.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Edit: The good news is that no one has blamed me for the loss. Everyone who has been hardcore feeding at least has acknowledged it. Small victories.
Update: 10th loss in a row. AD carry afks in base after 10 minutes. Seriously. The community of this game is poisoning it for me.
It was downright Darius.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Is one of the upgrades that I only get cut and dry cases? (Seriously - the person reported was invariably cussing out half the players in the game)
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Of course, it doesn't always end up like this, pre 6 he is incredibly abusable, and if everyone gets some mr his combo can't oneshot anyone for a fairly long while.
So it's the Blitzcrank bug all over again. Did they ever fix that?
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You can also chip him down from long range depending on the champion. You may also just be able to shove and force him to level his Meteor, which will affect his Q last hitting.
one can dream, one can dream
I'm pretty sure none of that damage was from her. I think it was either minions or a nic from Hecarim.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Fiddles is a slow as shit jungler who is easy to steal camps from, even if he's actually pretty strong 1v1. His ganks aren't spectacular pre-6 either, although he can bring some nasty post-6 ganks to the table. You also might have trouble picking him early since a good team can bring someone with a knockback to shut down his ult. Tristana is a great pick against Fiddles, for example.