Chalice regenerates mana in a larger mana pool faster because it works based on the % of mana you have left, not the numerical value.
Other way around. Smaller pool means you're lower on mana more often means you're getting more regen since its based on %. Only the assist part of pimp cup works better the more mana you have.
Chalice stacks well with tear because tear has MP5 on it and that is magnified by Chalice's passive.
In addition Anivia likes max mana and MP5 since regen helps her sustain in lane/roam/be valuable when she gets from one fight to the next, while max mana helps her not go OOM in fights.
Chalice regenerates mana in a larger mana pool faster because it works based on the % of mana you have left, not the numerical value.
Other way around. Smaller pool means you're lower on mana more often means you're getting more regen since its based on %. Only the assist part of pimp cup works better the more mana you have.
Chalice stacks well with tear because tear has MP5 on it and that is magnified by Chalice's passive.
In addition Anivia likes max mana and MP5 since regen helps her sustain in lane/roam/be valuable when she gets from one fight to the next, while max mana helps her not go OOM in fights.
With a Chalice, a larger mana pool means you can be low in % terms but still have enough to cast - it does work out to be more sustaining, to a degree, just because you can safely be at a lower %, and thus get more effectiveness from it.
Hell, with enough mana, Chalice+Blue lets you maintain Glacial Storm forever. (That said, you need a LOT of mana)
So what would you guys say is an optimal build on anivia? Tear(or chalice), boots 2, whatever you didn't get (tear/chalice), death cap (or death cap before not tear/chalice) , pimp cup,?
Thinking I'm gonna play some normals with her and then move into ranked with her as my mid instead of brand / karthus.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
So what would you guys say is an optimal build on anivia? Tear(or chalice), boots 2, whatever you didn't get (tear/chalice), death cap (or death cap before not tear/chalice) , pimp cup,?
Thinking I'm gonna play some normals with her and then move into ranked with her as my mid instead of brand / karthus.
If you did Chalice first, I would say Tear before Boots2. If you did Tear first, you could possibly do Boots2 before Chalice, it depends on the lane matchup.
Played my first pvp as anivia and did ok. Shut down opposing mid and beat him by 30 cs , 1 kill and 2 assists. Lost tower though. Was facing heim which is supposedly a counter?
Went boots/pots, backed bought chalice and wards/pots, mana crystal, tear, big rod, boots 2, death cap, surrender.
Got used to the AA animation and once I got r it was easy to clear waves. The bird seemed powerful
Chalice regenerates mana in a larger mana pool faster because it works based on the % of mana you have left, not the numerical value.
Other way around. Smaller pool means you're lower on mana more often means you're getting more regen since its based on %. Only the assist part of pimp cup works better the more mana you have.
Chalice stacks well with tear because tear has MP5 on it and that is magnified by Chalice's passive.
In addition Anivia likes max mana and MP5 since regen helps her sustain in lane/roam/be valuable when she gets from one fight to the next, while max mana helps her not go OOM in fights.
With a Chalice, a larger mana pool means you can be low in % terms but still have enough to cast - it does work out to be more sustaining, to a degree, just because you can safely be at a lower %, and thus get more effectiveness from it.
Hell, with enough mana, Chalice+Blue lets you maintain Glacial Storm forever. (That said, you need a LOT of mana)
reminds me of a pubbie Viegar I had on my team, he was always OOM in teamfights, but when I told him to build mana regen, he said thats what the passive was for... the passive amplifys regen, it doesnt really create it out of the blue.
I just gotta vent for hilarity's sake. I pick Cassi for mid, and get counterpicked as Talon. Immediately my entire team (including me) is all "Oh crap we're scewed." I manage to out cs talon and never die to him once. Bot decides to put on a buffet which Talon decides to visit a few times, and that's now my fault. The Alistair @ bot decides to freak out on me, then ignores everyone on the team when someone else backs me up that I've held my ground against a pretty good counterpick and am doing my job. Damn I love people!
I mean I guess it depends. Were you calling MIA when Talon was gone? Assuming proper warding, did you follow Talon but when he headed down there from your lane (as opposed to from anywhere else where you may not have seen him leave)?
The latter is something I'm trying to get better at personally.
dunno why twitch is breaking shit up into different parts now, but watch thru
she ended up 2/24/1
That. That is a lot of dudes with clarity. Whut.
Edit: Also. That looks like poor play all round from everyone I saw. You didn't move to support Darius when you saw Nidalee leave lane, Nidalee was constantly auto-attacking creeps, you didn't really have last-hitting with Resolute Smite down... man. I wish I saw people play like that in my games.
Kay on
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I just gotta vent for hilarity's sake. I pick Cassi for mid, and get counterpicked as Talon. Immediately my entire team (including me) is all "Oh crap we're scewed." I manage to out cs talon and never die to him once. Bot decides to put on a buffet which Talon decides to visit a few times, and that's now my fault. The Alistair @ bot decides to freak out on me, then ignores everyone on the team when someone else backs me up that I've held my ground against a pretty good counterpick and am doing my job. Damn I love people!
I mean I guess it depends. Were you calling MIA when Talon was gone? Assuming proper warding, did you follow Talon but when he headed down there from your lane (as opposed to from anywhere else where you may not have seen him leave)?
The latter is something I'm trying to get better at personally.
Following a Talon in that situation, and the other guy in general, can be a really bad idea if your jungle is inattentive. I got cut off several times in a game the other day trying to get into bombing range as Ziggs because our Malphite was paying no attention to where people he wasn't currently focused on were. It was a real bummer.
In @Caenem's particular case I'd probably have gone the opposite route: trying to get bottom to bail and heading to damage the tower, gank top, or steal the enemy jungle, in that order of preference. Cass should have no problem singling out and fanging a big creep to death just to screw with the bad guys if she gets 30 seconds or so to get it done in. Definitely make the mia call.
On the third hand, beating Talon on CS with one of the game's better farming champions doesn't necessarily mean you're winning the lane, either. Absolute parity of farming ability is not a thing that happens, even in a matchup between, like, Ziggs and Morgana, who can both be reasonably expected to start picking up entire waves around level 5. There's more to winning a lane than cs, though I'm not claiming Caenem was secretly losing and not noticing it.
The real answer is probably that you did a pretty good job in adverse circumstances while that Alistar had issues with tunnel-vision and not wanting to change his playstyle, because that's usually a safe bet. Doesn't hurt to think around the problem though.
If the bot lane was already losing, which it sounds like they were, a quick mia call and proper warding should've led to the bot lane backing to their tower and just farming the waves to prevent a dive. There are times when you need to follow the guy to counter gank, but if their bot lane is already ahead, you may just feed more kills if you go down and try to counter gank and make a 3v3.
In those situations unless I think a dive is surely imminent bot, I will just instantly shove it to tower mid and put damage on the mid tower to force their mid to waste his time and get him to head back mid.
RE: Anivia, there are many different early games for Anivia. Tear, Catalyst, and Chalice are all fine first buys after your boots. Catalyst into a 14ish minute RoA is probably the way you'd go if you were a crazy good Anivia player, but for most people, you're going to want to either go Tear or Chalice first for mana sustain.
When I play Aniv, I usually go Chalice, Catalyst, RoA, Deathcap, Void Staff, and then from there. I don't usually finish the unholy grail unless it's late game and still going, but there's really no one right answer on her. It depends on the game and your style.
If the bot lane was already losing, which it sounds like they were, a quick mia call and proper warding should've led to the bot lane backing to their tower and just farming the waves to prevent a dive. There are times when you need to follow the guy to counter gank, but if their bot lane is already ahead, you may just feed more kills if you go down and try to counter gank and make a 3v3.
In those situations unless I think a dive is surely imminent bot, I will just instantly shove it to tower mid and put damage on the mid tower to force their mid to waste his time and get him to head back mid.
Yeah, I guess I oversimplified. What I was getting at was that there was more to doing your job in a lane than simply not losing that lane. In that situation following Talon might not be the best idea, depending on where your jungler was and the path you took to follow.
On that note, I will say that it's infuriating in bot lane when the enemy mid shows up and our mid is just derping around last hitting at our mid tower. To your point above, at least shove the goddamn lane into their tower to take some pressure off bot :?
Oh, absolutely. Though in all honesty, if you're an AP mid and you out CS Talon and don't feed him, you pretty much did win that lane unless he gets fed roaming, but part of that is on your other lanes if they aren't warded properly and let him get kills.
Yeah, if the enemy mid roams and your mid doesn't either follow or shove it to turret, they're definitely doing it wrong. You can't just let your mid opponent roam without losing anything at all. It's one of the reasons I like playing heavy farming mids like Karthus, because if my opponent roams at all they're guaranteed to lose waves, and I already usually hit 200 CS by ~22 minutes on Karthus, so they're going to be in trouble if they get too far behind. I also run teleport on Karth for counter ganking, but that's a different thing.
Again, it's all about communication and knowing whether or not your bot is going to get tower dived if you don't counter gank, because if that's the case, you really need to follow(and your jungler) to prevent them getting dived and then losing their tower early for no good reason.
dunno why twitch is breaking shit up into different parts now, but watch thru
she ended up 2/24/1
That. That is a lot of dudes with clarity. Whut.
Edit: Also. That looks like poor play all round from everyone I saw. You didn't move to support Darius when you saw Nidalee leave lane, Nidalee was constantly auto-attacking creeps, you didn't really have last-hitting with Resolute Smite down... man. I wish I saw people play like that in my games.
Well yeah there was lots of poor play all around, however Annie was literally running from nexus to turret every time she spawned .
Also Joe you need to lead your target more with your ranged harass, you'll land a lot more of them if you try to predict their movements, you tended to toss them where they used to be. Watch the enemy for patterns of movement and try to get your skillshots ahead of where you think they will move to.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Yeah, I was more commenting on the other people playing, as we could all see Annie just running to the tower.
I still have no idea why people do that. I mean. Surely it gets boring?
Zyra needs to hurry up and get released already. I wonder if they've changed any of her skills after the CDR addition to her W, or if they're just bug-fixing.
So I have about 150 games played now and I have yet to see someone intentionally feeding. Worst offenses have been verbal for which I use ignore or someone afk at base. Guess I have been lucky so far.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
So I have about 150 games played now and I have yet to see someone intentionally feeding. Worst offenses have been verbal for which I use ignore or someone afk at base. Guess I have been lucky so far.
Intentional feeding is pretty rare in most ELO, I think it's been months since I've seen it happen personally. Granted that's entirely anecdotal
*edit* Actually I just realized I very rarely even play without a full group of 5 people I know so that's probably why I don't see it.
Delphinidaes on
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I thought a lot of misinformation is going around here so I ran a test.
Sona at level 1:
Base mana - 310
Base mana regen - 7.65mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 100% - 15mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (310 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (510 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (710 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 355 mana) - 25mp5, level 2
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 400 mana) - 25mp5, level 3
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 445 mana) - 26mp5, level 4
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 490 mana) - 27mp5, level 5
Hell, with enough mana, Chalice+Blue lets you maintain Glacial Storm forever. (That said, you need a LOT of mana)
You never have that much mana. You can get around 200 MP5 with Pimp Cup/RoA/Blue and low mana. Glacial Storm will run you 300 MP5. You would have to have a stacked tear, pimp cup, and RoA AND have no mana to get close.
If the bot lane was already losing, which it sounds like they were, a quick mia call and proper warding should've led to the bot lane backing to their tower and just farming the waves to prevent a dive. There are times when you need to follow the guy to counter gank, but if their bot lane is already ahead, you may just feed more kills if you go down and try to counter gank and make a 3v3.
Eh. Its not anyone else's job to watch the minimap. If the AD is too focused on CSing the support needs to keep track of people. MIA's are nice, but its not mids job.
Any lane should always call mia and retreat ping down the river if they see their opponent leave their lane and head to another. It's not their job, but if they don't do it they're just needlessly putting their other lanes at risk. Mid should also ward for the same reason, not just to protect themselves from ganks, but to help their other lanes see the mid roaming up river. Sometimes they leave from fog of war and you don't see them, though when you notice you should still call mia then.
It's not the mid's fault if another lane dies to their mid roaming, but that doesn't change the fact that calling mia and warding are standard procedure and should be done for the sake of communication. I always call mia, let my teammates know when mid backs so they can know they're not at risk for a short time but could be if the mid ganks before coming back to lane, etc. Good communication only helps you in this game, and there's no reason not to do it, ever.
I thought a lot of misinformation is going around here so I ran a test.
Sona at level 1:
Base mana - 310
Base mana regen - 7.65mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 100% - 15mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (310 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (510 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (710 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 355 mana) - 25mp5, level 2
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 400 mana) - 25mp5, level 3
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 445 mana) - 26mp5, level 4
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 490 mana) - 27mp5, level 5
Edit: My brain is exploding and I am in fact reading wrong. My testing matches yours. Enough meds will put one under. I can confirm that chalice does multiply blue's regen.
Watching somebody with that level of skill play Lee Sin makes me want to jungle him instead of just not and feeling like he falls off too much late game and doesn't bring enough to team fights. Problem is, I am probably never making that play. I had to watch it twice to see that he max range Qed into follow up Q into ward->W, and then kicked the Gragas into his team all in like 2 seconds. Just too good.
Well no, it interacts with bonus mana and mana regen as far as I'm aware.
Specifically, it increases your mana regen (base mana regen plus any modifiers) by the percent mana you're missing (total).
No it doesn't. That's what my post above shows. Buying 3 mana crystals does not increase mana regen when you have a Chalice.
No, your test shows that 50% mana missing is the same whether it's 50% of 310 mana or 50% of 490 mana. It's giving you a 50% increase to your 15.15 mp5, which is why you're seeing the same mp5 no matter how much mana you're missing 50% of.
To clarify, we were talking about what it *interacted* with, I should have specified. Your mana regen increases by the percentage of total mana missing.
Edit: Though I can't say I'm sure what the original argument was, at this point, or whose side I'm on.
Watching somebody with that level of skill play Lee Sin makes me want to jungle him instead of just not and feeling like he falls off too much late game and doesn't bring enough to team fights. Problem is, I am probably never making that play. I had to watch it twice to see that he max range Qed into follow up Q into ward->W, and then kicked the Gragas into his team all in like 2 seconds. Just too good.
Attention, entire thread: Do not purchase Lee Sin. He is much too cool for mere mortals, and if you buy him, you will be forced to keep playing him, because he is cool. Really, really cool. I warn you of this because it is too late for me, I am trying to get as cool as that guy, and I cannot stop myself. Don't fall into the Lee Sin trap.
Posts
Other way around. Smaller pool means you're lower on mana more often means you're getting more regen since its based on %. Only the assist part of pimp cup works better the more mana you have.
Chalice stacks well with tear because tear has MP5 on it and that is magnified by Chalice's passive.
In addition Anivia likes max mana and MP5 since regen helps her sustain in lane/roam/be valuable when she gets from one fight to the next, while max mana helps her not go OOM in fights.
With a Chalice, a larger mana pool means you can be low in % terms but still have enough to cast - it does work out to be more sustaining, to a degree, just because you can safely be at a lower %, and thus get more effectiveness from it.
Hell, with enough mana, Chalice+Blue lets you maintain Glacial Storm forever. (That said, you need a LOT of mana)
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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Thinking I'm gonna play some normals with her and then move into ranked with her as my mid instead of brand / karthus.
Went boots/pots, backed bought chalice and wards/pots, mana crystal, tear, big rod, boots 2, death cap, surrender.
Got used to the AA animation and once I got r it was easy to clear waves. The bird seemed powerful
http://www.twitch.tv/enderwiggnz/b/325939176
dunno why twitch is breaking shit up into different parts now, but watch thru
she ended up 2/24/1
Joe's Stream.
reminds me of a pubbie Viegar I had on my team, he was always OOM in teamfights, but when I told him to build mana regen, he said thats what the passive was for... the passive amplifys regen, it doesnt really create it out of the blue.
MWO: Adamski
I mean I guess it depends. Were you calling MIA when Talon was gone? Assuming proper warding, did you follow Talon but when he headed down there from your lane (as opposed to from anywhere else where you may not have seen him leave)?
The latter is something I'm trying to get better at personally.
Edit: Also. That looks like poor play all round from everyone I saw. You didn't move to support Darius when you saw Nidalee leave lane, Nidalee was constantly auto-attacking creeps, you didn't really have last-hitting with Resolute Smite down... man. I wish I saw people play like that in my games.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Following a Talon in that situation, and the other guy in general, can be a really bad idea if your jungle is inattentive. I got cut off several times in a game the other day trying to get into bombing range as Ziggs because our Malphite was paying no attention to where people he wasn't currently focused on were. It was a real bummer.
In @Caenem's particular case I'd probably have gone the opposite route: trying to get bottom to bail and heading to damage the tower, gank top, or steal the enemy jungle, in that order of preference. Cass should have no problem singling out and fanging a big creep to death just to screw with the bad guys if she gets 30 seconds or so to get it done in. Definitely make the mia call.
On the third hand, beating Talon on CS with one of the game's better farming champions doesn't necessarily mean you're winning the lane, either. Absolute parity of farming ability is not a thing that happens, even in a matchup between, like, Ziggs and Morgana, who can both be reasonably expected to start picking up entire waves around level 5. There's more to winning a lane than cs, though I'm not claiming Caenem was secretly losing and not noticing it.
The real answer is probably that you did a pretty good job in adverse circumstances while that Alistar had issues with tunnel-vision and not wanting to change his playstyle, because that's usually a safe bet. Doesn't hurt to think around the problem though.
In those situations unless I think a dive is surely imminent bot, I will just instantly shove it to tower mid and put damage on the mid tower to force their mid to waste his time and get him to head back mid.
RE: Anivia, there are many different early games for Anivia. Tear, Catalyst, and Chalice are all fine first buys after your boots. Catalyst into a 14ish minute RoA is probably the way you'd go if you were a crazy good Anivia player, but for most people, you're going to want to either go Tear or Chalice first for mana sustain.
When I play Aniv, I usually go Chalice, Catalyst, RoA, Deathcap, Void Staff, and then from there. I don't usually finish the unholy grail unless it's late game and still going, but there's really no one right answer on her. It depends on the game and your style.
Yeah, I guess I oversimplified. What I was getting at was that there was more to doing your job in a lane than simply not losing that lane. In that situation following Talon might not be the best idea, depending on where your jungler was and the path you took to follow.
On that note, I will say that it's infuriating in bot lane when the enemy mid shows up and our mid is just derping around last hitting at our mid tower. To your point above, at least shove the goddamn lane into their tower to take some pressure off bot :?
Yeah, if the enemy mid roams and your mid doesn't either follow or shove it to turret, they're definitely doing it wrong. You can't just let your mid opponent roam without losing anything at all. It's one of the reasons I like playing heavy farming mids like Karthus, because if my opponent roams at all they're guaranteed to lose waves, and I already usually hit 200 CS by ~22 minutes on Karthus, so they're going to be in trouble if they get too far behind. I also run teleport on Karth for counter ganking, but that's a different thing.
Again, it's all about communication and knowing whether or not your bot is going to get tower dived if you don't counter gank, because if that's the case, you really need to follow(and your jungler) to prevent them getting dived and then losing their tower early for no good reason.
Well yeah there was lots of poor play all around, however Annie was literally running from nexus to turret every time she spawned
Also Joe you need to lead your target more with your ranged harass, you'll land a lot more of them if you try to predict their movements, you tended to toss them where they used to be. Watch the enemy for patterns of movement and try to get your skillshots ahead of where you think they will move to.
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I still have no idea why people do that. I mean. Surely it gets boring?
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Some people find it incredibly entertaining to piss off complete strangers. I think Riot should send these people referrals for therapy sessions.
Meh, i'm content with them just getting banned the fuck out of the game through the tribunal system.
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Intentional feeding is pretty rare in most ELO, I think it's been months since I've seen it happen personally. Granted that's entirely anecdotal
*edit* Actually I just realized I very rarely even play without a full group of 5 people I know so that's probably why I don't see it.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
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Sona at level 1:
Base mana - 310
Base mana regen - 7.65mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 100% - 15mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (310 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (510 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (710 mana max) - 23mp5
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 355 mana) - 25mp5, level 2
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 400 mana) - 25mp5, level 3
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 445 mana) - 26mp5, level 4
Mana regen with Chalice at 50% (base 490 mana) - 27mp5, level 5
Steam: Drokmir
You never have that much mana. You can get around 200 MP5 with Pimp Cup/RoA/Blue and low mana. Glacial Storm will run you 300 MP5. You would have to have a stacked tear, pimp cup, and RoA AND have no mana to get close.
Eh. Its not anyone else's job to watch the minimap. If the AD is too focused on CSing the support needs to keep track of people. MIA's are nice, but its not mids job.
Yes. Chalice's regen buff interacts with everything.
It's not the mid's fault if another lane dies to their mid roaming, but that doesn't change the fact that calling mia and warding are standard procedure and should be done for the sake of communication. I always call mia, let my teammates know when mid backs so they can know they're not at risk for a short time but could be if the mid ganks before coming back to lane, etc. Good communication only helps you in this game, and there's no reason not to do it, ever.
That made me laugh.
Well no, it interacts with bonus mana and mana regen as far as I'm aware.
Specifically, it increases your mana regen (base mana regen plus any modifiers) by the percent mana you're missing (total).
Point is I was correct. Larger mana pool makes you regen more mana
EDIT: NOTHING BETTER THAN SAYING "I TOLD YOU SO" ON INTERNET VIDEO GAME FORUMS. SUP NERDS?!
Edit: My brain is exploding and I am in fact reading wrong. My testing matches yours. Enough meds will put one under. I can confirm that chalice does multiply blue's regen.
No it doesn't. That's what my post above shows. Buying 3 mana crystals does not increase mana regen when you have a Chalice.
Watching somebody with that level of skill play Lee Sin makes me want to jungle him instead of just not and feeling like he falls off too much late game and doesn't bring enough to team fights. Problem is, I am probably never making that play. I had to watch it twice to see that he max range Qed into follow up Q into ward->W, and then kicked the Gragas into his team all in like 2 seconds. Just too good.
No, your test shows that 50% mana missing is the same whether it's 50% of 310 mana or 50% of 490 mana. It's giving you a 50% increase to your 15.15 mp5, which is why you're seeing the same mp5 no matter how much mana you're missing 50% of.
To clarify, we were talking about what it *interacted* with, I should have specified. Your mana regen increases by the percentage of total mana missing.
Edit: Though I can't say I'm sure what the original argument was, at this point, or whose side I'm on.
Nevermind, found it.
Yeah, this was the part that was wrong. It doesn't scale based on total mana (at least not in a positive direction).
Attention, entire thread: Do not purchase Lee Sin. He is much too cool for mere mortals, and if you buy him, you will be forced to keep playing him, because he is cool. Really, really cool. I warn you of this because it is too late for me, I am trying to get as cool as that guy, and I cannot stop myself. Don't fall into the Lee Sin trap.