Japanese Saturn games are so classy. The Japanese version of Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a thing to behold.
"Panzer Dragoon Zwei is one of the best 3D shooting games available. Presented for your pleasure."
It sounds conceited, but you can say shit like that when you're as awesome as 1996 Sega. Especially considering it's still true over 15 years later.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is one of Sega's very best action games across any system or arcade board. It is essentially a modern take on the Space Harrier and Afterburner gameplay, put in full 3D, with the branching paths of Outrun, and the atmosphere and story of Ecco the Dolphin. A magnificent game. I enjoyed Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei, and Panzer Dragoon Orta, all when they were released, but it wasn't until I got Panzer Dragoon Saga that I began to see the overall series as a master piece.
What's sad about Panzer Dragoon Zwei is that it existed during a time period where it could have been a smash hit had it been on a more successful system. Looking over at the (what I consider inferior) Starfox 64 shows a glimpse of how big Panzer Dragoon could have been had the Saturn been a smash hit.
Definitely one of Sega's finest hours. And what a soundtrack.
I haven't played Panzer Dragoon since 1996, and I've considered trying it again, since it got an xbox port. But I remember it being a crazy eyesore of messy polygons. This is weird, because I watched a gameplay video recently and it actually looked pretty good. Don't know where that first impression came from.
I want you people to know that under this new system, putting down something as awesome puts the entire post as awesome in the awesome feed. The ENTIRE post.
I haven't played Panzer Dragoon since 1996, and I've considered trying it again, since it got an xbox port. But I remember it being a crazy eyesore of messy polygons. This is weird, because I watched a gameplay video recently and it actually looked pretty good. Don't know where that first impression came from.
Panzer Dragoon is still a beautiful game if you can get past the roughness. The art design for the entire series is outstanding.
I haven't played Panzer Dragoon since 1996, and I've considered trying it again, since it got an xbox port. But I remember it being a crazy eyesore of messy polygons. This is weird, because I watched a gameplay video recently and it actually looked pretty good. Don't know where that first impression came from.
The Xbox port is actually the PC port, which was the saturn original running in a slightly higher resolution. It looks a tad bit better than it normally does on the Saturn.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei, however, is a major step up in graphics over the original. Panzer Dragoon was a stand out launch title - really the only launch title worth a damn for the saturn. But as the saturn progressed, graphics got a lot better, and the other 2 Panzer Dragoon games were both graphical showcases for the middle and end of the system. Zwei ran in a higher resolution with a better frame rate than the original, and had much better texture work. Behold:
Panzer Dragoon Saga looks even better. The best thing about the Panzer Dragoon games is the number of ways they'd layer sega saturn specific special effects on top of one another to create some very unique, very pretty effects. Reflecting lights and transparent oceans and lots of dithered light sources. It was all pretty neat.
The Saturn actually had great light sourcing ability. While the early games featured almost no light sourcing on models, middle to later games often featured multiple light sources. The saturn was even better than the playstation in some regards to the way it could pull off light sources. Games like Shining Force III and Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Saga heavily abuse the ability to create light sources.
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mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
My favorite effect in Saga is the level where you're breaking into the area at night in the fog, and you have to constantly take out search lights. The number of transparent layers thrown around, as well as the dithered transparent search lights, in addition to the faint reflection in the dark transparent water... it was all awesome, and I was impressed by the number of tricks so casually thrown around.
On the subject of playing these old games, especially old Sega games, a CRT television is a must, and you need to use a composite video cable. In the case of these machines, the clearer the worse. Both the Genesis and Saturn throw around so much dithering to fake transparency. If the picture is too sharp, these effects turn into sharp mesh webs of checkerboard pattern. But on a CRT television via a composite cable, these dithered segments blur together and create a very convincing transparency affect. This affect, coupled with the real transparency effects already being done in-game, greatly enhances the image.
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mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
The checkerboard transparency effects will display properly on an HDTV too as long as you're using a composite cable or RF. It certainly won't look as good as a CRT, but this way you can play Zwei in widescreen mode.
Yeah, that's some solid framerate in that Zwei video, and its not really visually confusing. Though that one doesn't have a port for a console I own. Saturn isn't on my list of things to buy. Dirt cheap console with every good title in the 100 dollar range or (more likely than you'd think) Japan-only.
Even with the first though, I watched a video of the level I remember best (2) and its not really that confusing. Though I don't think I really played rail-shooters back then, maybe that's why I found it a cluster fuck. Graphics aren't that appealing on that particular level, either.
It hurts having missed Shining Force 3. I keep hoping that one day it'll get a serviceable redo on XBLA or something accessible (aw man, perfect for tablets - SF1 was on the iphone...), however Sega's continual drive to burn the IP to the ground makes me think (know in my heart) that'll never happen.
I have two Saturns now. I bought myself a Japanese one for my birthday, and just got back from looking around Akihabara for the floppy disk drive peripheral (unsuccessfully) because I'm not about to start losing RPG saves again.
In a fit of "oh, crap, our builder declared bankruptcy and we need to find every way possible to get some more moneys and finish building the house on our own!", I sold off my Panzer Dragoon Saga, Magic Knight Rayearth, and Shining Force III (and Steel Battalion) earlier this year.
Yup. Note that I didn't say anything about selling my Death Tank Zwei (Quake + Duke Nukem 3D), Saturn Bomberman, or the multitaps and 10 controllers.
Other Saturn games worth checking out (that I haven't seen mentioned): Puzzle Fighter 2X, Baku Baku Animal, Sega Ages, Bubble Bobble Collection, Marvel Super Heroes, X-Men CotA, X-Men vs Street Fighter, Night Warriors...
Dragon Force remains imminently playable to this day. The fact that the sequel never made it here is criminal, to say the least.
Does anyone know why the Panzer series didn't continue past the first Xbox? It wasn't a bad outing for the series at all, but after that it seems to have died on the vine.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Just remembered that I actually went kind of nuts with Saturn accessories and ended up buying two Twin Stick controllers. Kind of regretted that because my friends and I couldn't really get into Virtual On.
My two absolute favorite items in my video game collection are probably my white Saturn and copy of Xmen vs. Street Fighter.
I was always planning on picking up a bunch of other Capcom and SNK fighters for it, but whatever was good has mostly been rereleased at this point.
Just remembered that I actually went kind of nuts with Saturn accessories and ended up buying two Twin Stick controllers. Kind of regretted that because my friends and I couldn't really get into Virtual On.
But it was pretty cool to try it out, at least.
The saturn had some awesome accessories. I hope to go through them all when I'm done writing up the hardware section.
Did you know that you can play Panzer Dragoon with twin flight sticks? The flight sticks for the saturn was actually well supported, and by connecting 2 flight sticks - one in each port, you can independently control the dragon and the cross hair.
That's also why Panzer Dragoon Zwei has an unlisted 3D controller support.
Yeah, PDS and SF3 aren't particularly rare in japan.
I do have a mint copy of SF3 Premium disc, though. That is pretty rare, even in japan.
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
Oh, reasons. I see how it is!
That's fine, I just thought it would be about Saturn stuff regardless of rereleases, not just stuff that still has the best version on Saturn.
On another note, did those ridiculous cases have extra difficult disc-holder pins? My sister snapped my Space Jam disc in half trying to take it out (I never had any trouble...). Poor Mike and the Toons never got another game.
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
Oh, reasons. I see how it is!
That's fine, I just thought it would be about Saturn stuff regardless of rereleases, not just stuff that still has the best version on Saturn.
On another note, did those ridiculous cases have extra difficult disc-holder pins? My sister snapped my Space Jam disc in half trying to take it out (I never had any trouble...). Poor Mike and the Toons never got another game.
No more than normal cases. I've come very close to snapping a disc in half in a normal CD case and a DVD case before, though. Those longbox US NTSC cases for the saturn are all-around awful, though.
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
I found this and thought you guys might be interested.
It's an interview with a developer from Lobotomy Software and his experiences developing on the Saturn. It's some interesting stuff.
Their conversion of Quake was something John Carmack said wasn't possible, and their port of Duke Nukem 3D was, for many many years, the absolute best version of that game, besting even the PC version.
A criminally underrated developer. Their FPS output late in the saturn's life brought some much enjoyed late life to the system.
No kidding on the rarity of Psychic Assassins Taromaru. I'll have to play that one the ghetto way.
I do have Panzer Dragoon Saga. Do not ask me how much I paid for it.
I'll probably track these down:
Burning Rangers
Shining Force III
Deep Fear
Clockwork Knight 2
I have some imports that were neat:
Darius Gaiden
Layer Section
I don't think Taromaru is that expensive, considering how low it's print run is and comparing it to the other similarly sought after games like Panzer Dragoon Saga or Shining Force III. I refused to pay $250 for PDS since I passed it up at like $20 years before, but I have no problems dropping somewhere in that amount for another well sought after game. $400 for Taromaru isn't that bad, compared to stuff like an authentic Sapphire on the PC Engine Duo, or Tetris on the Sega Mega Drive.
You should be aware, however, that SF3, Deep Fear, and Burning Rangers all usually go for around the same price that Panzer Dragoon Saga goes for. You can start to justify the ball park figure for Taromaru when you're judging it against a couple of $200+ games.
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
The gameplay was kinda meh, but what made it awesome were the surprisingly well-written and acted live-action cutscenes and in-mission dialog starring Claudia Christian of Babylon 5 fame. It also had a ton of nutty bonus levels including a pretty hilarious parody of the death star trench run.
Great, now you have me camping craigslist looking for old systems. I should ask my dad if he still has my Saturn shoved away somewhere.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
Will the XBLA port of NiGHTS make the Saturn version obsolete?
I mean, it includes the Saturn original right in it
It's an interview with a developer from Lobotomy Software and his experiences developing on the Saturn. It's some interesting stuff.
Ahh, Death Tank. Still in my top 10 list of games of all time. Well, Zwei is, at least (I've never played the first one). 7-player local multiplayer mayhem? HELL YEAH. That's still our default go-to game at halftime.
Posts
"Panzer Dragoon Zwei is one of the best 3D shooting games available. Presented for your pleasure."
It sounds conceited, but you can say shit like that when you're as awesome as 1996 Sega. Especially considering it's still true over 15 years later.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is one of Sega's very best action games across any system or arcade board. It is essentially a modern take on the Space Harrier and Afterburner gameplay, put in full 3D, with the branching paths of Outrun, and the atmosphere and story of Ecco the Dolphin. A magnificent game. I enjoyed Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei, and Panzer Dragoon Orta, all when they were released, but it wasn't until I got Panzer Dragoon Saga that I began to see the overall series as a master piece.
What's sad about Panzer Dragoon Zwei is that it existed during a time period where it could have been a smash hit had it been on a more successful system. Looking over at the (what I consider inferior) Starfox 64 shows a glimpse of how big Panzer Dragoon could have been had the Saturn been a smash hit.
Definitely one of Sega's finest hours. And what a soundtrack.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Panzer Dragoon is still a beautiful game if you can get past the roughness. The art design for the entire series is outstanding.
The Xbox port is actually the PC port, which was the saturn original running in a slightly higher resolution. It looks a tad bit better than it normally does on the Saturn.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei, however, is a major step up in graphics over the original. Panzer Dragoon was a stand out launch title - really the only launch title worth a damn for the saturn. But as the saturn progressed, graphics got a lot better, and the other 2 Panzer Dragoon games were both graphical showcases for the middle and end of the system. Zwei ran in a higher resolution with a better frame rate than the original, and had much better texture work. Behold:
Panzer Dragoon Saga looks even better. The best thing about the Panzer Dragoon games is the number of ways they'd layer sega saturn specific special effects on top of one another to create some very unique, very pretty effects. Reflecting lights and transparent oceans and lots of dithered light sources. It was all pretty neat.
The Saturn actually had great light sourcing ability. While the early games featured almost no light sourcing on models, middle to later games often featured multiple light sources. The saturn was even better than the playstation in some regards to the way it could pull off light sources. Games like Shining Force III and Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Saga heavily abuse the ability to create light sources.
My favorite effect in Saga is the level where you're breaking into the area at night in the fog, and you have to constantly take out search lights. The number of transparent layers thrown around, as well as the dithered transparent search lights, in addition to the faint reflection in the dark transparent water... it was all awesome, and I was impressed by the number of tricks so casually thrown around.
On the subject of playing these old games, especially old Sega games, a CRT television is a must, and you need to use a composite video cable. In the case of these machines, the clearer the worse. Both the Genesis and Saturn throw around so much dithering to fake transparency. If the picture is too sharp, these effects turn into sharp mesh webs of checkerboard pattern. But on a CRT television via a composite cable, these dithered segments blur together and create a very convincing transparency affect. This affect, coupled with the real transparency effects already being done in-game, greatly enhances the image.
Even with the first though, I watched a video of the level I remember best (2) and its not really that confusing. Though I don't think I really played rail-shooters back then, maybe that's why I found it a cluster fuck. Graphics aren't that appealing on that particular level, either.
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
But my FAVOURITE Saturn game? Easy, Virtual Hydlide. Shame on you all for not giving it the love.
Other Saturn games worth checking out (that I haven't seen mentioned): Puzzle Fighter 2X, Baku Baku Animal, Sega Ages, Bubble Bobble Collection, Marvel Super Heroes, X-Men CotA, X-Men vs Street Fighter, Night Warriors...
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
Does anyone know why the Panzer series didn't continue past the first Xbox? It wasn't a bad outing for the series at all, but after that it seems to have died on the vine.
But it was pretty cool to try it out, at least.
My Backloggery
I was always planning on picking up a bunch of other Capcom and SNK fighters for it, but whatever was good has mostly been rereleased at this point.
The saturn had some awesome accessories. I hope to go through them all when I'm done writing up the hardware section.
Did you know that you can play Panzer Dragoon with twin flight sticks? The flight sticks for the saturn was actually well supported, and by connecting 2 flight sticks - one in each port, you can independently control the dragon and the cross hair.
That's also why Panzer Dragoon Zwei has an unlisted 3D controller support.
I've seen the game at the Sofmap in Nipponbashi for 105 yen. I also picked up SF3 Scenario III for about 300 yen.
I do have a mint copy of SF3 Premium disc, though. That is pretty rare, even in japan.
Also, I am disappoint that Guardian Heroes was not in the original OP (or at least the games section thereafter). Luckily, my bro @AnakinOU got you covered.
Because it's not worth getting the saturn version any more. Even with the PS2 remakes of Die Hard Arcade, NiGHTS, and Dragon Force out there, that they are in japanese or missing features (like the majority of presents in NiGHTS) makes owning the saturn version still viable. There's really no reason to pick up the saturn version of Guardian Heroes over the PSN/XBLA version.
It's the same reason I didn't list out all the massively ported Capcom fighting games, or stuff like Sega Ages.
Oh, reasons. I see how it is!
That's fine, I just thought it would be about Saturn stuff regardless of rereleases, not just stuff that still has the best version on Saturn.
On another note, did those ridiculous cases have extra difficult disc-holder pins? My sister snapped my Space Jam disc in half trying to take it out (I never had any trouble...). Poor Mike and the Toons never got another game.
That was probably in their broken "junk" game section.
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
No more than normal cases. I've come very close to snapping a disc in half in a normal CD case and a DVD case before, though. Those longbox US NTSC cases for the saturn are all-around awful, though.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/death-tanks-ezra-driesbach-interview
It's an interview with a developer from Lobotomy Software and his experiences developing on the Saturn. It's some interesting stuff.
I do have Panzer Dragoon Saga. Do not ask me how much I paid for it.
I'll probably track these down:
Burning Rangers
Shining Force III
Deep Fear
Clockwork Knight 2
I have some imports that were neat:
Darius Gaiden
Layer Section
Their conversion of Quake was something John Carmack said wasn't possible, and their port of Duke Nukem 3D was, for many many years, the absolute best version of that game, besting even the PC version.
A criminally underrated developer. Their FPS output late in the saturn's life brought some much enjoyed late life to the system.
I don't think Taromaru is that expensive, considering how low it's print run is and comparing it to the other similarly sought after games like Panzer Dragoon Saga or Shining Force III. I refused to pay $250 for PDS since I passed it up at like $20 years before, but I have no problems dropping somewhere in that amount for another well sought after game. $400 for Taromaru isn't that bad, compared to stuff like an authentic Sapphire on the PC Engine Duo, or Tetris on the Sega Mega Drive.
You should be aware, however, that SF3, Deep Fear, and Burning Rangers all usually go for around the same price that Panzer Dragoon Saga goes for. You can start to justify the ball park figure for Taromaru when you're judging it against a couple of $200+ games.
GH isn't on PSN, AFAIK.
Know what Saturn game was super rad? Solar Eclipse:
The gameplay was kinda meh, but what made it awesome were the surprisingly well-written and acted live-action cutscenes and in-mission dialog starring Claudia Christian of Babylon 5 fame. It also had a ton of nutty bonus levels including a pretty hilarious parody of the death star trench run.
Will the XBLA port of NiGHTS make the Saturn version obsolete?
I mean, it includes the Saturn original right in it
Ahh, Death Tank. Still in my top 10 list of games of all time. Well, Zwei is, at least (I've never played the first one). 7-player local multiplayer mayhem? HELL YEAH. That's still our default go-to game at halftime.