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[Bath Salts] be makin' people crayzay!

YallYall Registered User regular
edited July 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
So it turns out you don't even need to snort them anymore to lose your mind:

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Man-Upset-Over-Son-Attacks-Head-Shop-163703446.html

TLDR; Dudes 24 year old son got messed up on bath salts (technically they were marketed as "glass cleaner" but from what I could tell it's the same stuff with some slight alteration to the formula) and goes nuts in a head shop, breaking stuff and threatening the life of the man behind the counter.

A couple of directions immediately came to mind; I consider them both equally in scope for the discussion (but not necessarily limited to);

Discussion on bath salts and other compounds that are legal but are sold as drugs
Should we make them illegal to sell?
How do we regulate them - it seems like the formulae (sp?) change with such frequency that it might be hard to do effectively.

Discussion on vigilante acts as a result of some lack (or perhaps perceived lack) of a legal solution to a problem
Support for/against this specific case.

While I think the head shop should bear some responsibility for selling a dangerous compound that when marketed properly is legal, I can't really support this guys vigilantism. I understand his frustration, but I'm not sure he even know if he had the right clerk (it wasn't the owner). Could there be a civil case that would be more effective in deterring shops from selling this stuff?

Also, 24? Dude, at 24 you should know that snorting anything other than Afrin can bring serious repercussions. "Oh I thought it was just coke" is a poor excuse.


My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yall on

Posts

  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Deregulate everything. Let God and the ERs sort it out.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    Before you talk about bath salts, you must be able to state, chemically, what the drug actually is.

    So far, nobody talking about how crazy the drug is has given any indication that they know what it is they're talking about.

    http://www.erowid.org/

    mvaYcgc.jpg
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Deregulate everything. Let God and the ERs sort it out.

    At times I'm inclined to agree with that sentiment, but I also don't mind regulating some exceptionally bad things; PCP comes to mind because it has caused some people to engage some seriously bad behavior, to the detriment of not just themselves, but of others as well.

    My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    My understanding is that they're usually mephedrone or methylenedioxypyrovalerone (yes I had to wiki that second one), or derivatives thereof.

    The UK basically banned the entire class of compounds to which they belong, along with a couple of others. That is to say, manufacture, sale, or possession of any of them is explicitly illegal, with the usual caveats for medical research and such. Otherwise, you'd end up in a stupid cat-and-mouse situation where the people selling them tweaked their synthesis process a little at a time until they'd worked their way through hundreds of distinct but similar compounds one at a time as they were individually banned.

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    My understanding is that they're usually mephedrone or methylenedioxypyrovalerone (yes I had to wiki that second one), or derivatives thereof.

    The UK basically banned the entire class of compounds to which they belong, along with a couple of others. That is to say, manufacture, sale, or possession of any of them is explicitly illegal, with the usual caveats for medical research and such. Otherwise, you'd end up in a stupid cat-and-mouse situation where the people selling them tweaked their synthesis process a little at a time until they'd worked their way through hundreds of distinct but similar compounds one at a time as they were individually banned.

    This issue seems to be raising its head everywhere at the same time. I was just reading an expose from NZ last week. Seems like a non scandal as per usual

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenedioxypyrovalerone

    http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/keeping-our-heads-on-bath-salts/

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    Just a friendly reminder that the highly sensational face-eating incident in Florida earlier this year did not involve bath salts at all.

    New drugs have a tendency to make people paranoid. Even drugs that are legitimately dangerous - like crack and meth - were subject to hysterical news reports overstating their danger when the media first noticed them. PCP made people bulletproof. Tales about people taking LSD one time and then going irreparably psychotic became urban legends. Marijuana, opium, and cocaine were the drugs that Mexicans, Asians, and black people respectively were going to use to tempt your virginal white daughters over to a life of ethnic sexual depravity.

    Confounding this are the usual complications surrounding recreational drug use. You don't know that people actually took what they said they took; there isn't common knowledge among users of typical doses; you have no idea what contaminants are in any given batch.

    So I take a skeptical view of hysterical reports of MPDV's ability to turn people into psychopaths. Regardless, I won't touch the stuff, myself, until we know more.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    My understanding is that they're usually mephedrone or methylenedioxypyrovalerone (yes I had to wiki that second one), or derivatives thereof.

    The UK basically banned the entire class of compounds to which they belong, along with a couple of others. That is to say, manufacture, sale, or possession of any of them is explicitly illegal, with the usual caveats for medical research and such. Otherwise, you'd end up in a stupid cat-and-mouse situation where the people selling them tweaked their synthesis process a little at a time until they'd worked their way through hundreds of distinct but similar compounds one at a time as they were individually banned.

    The United States has a similar legal mechanism - the DEA has broad power to summarily ban any substance that is an "analog" of another banned substance. (The legal definition of "analog" is somewhat controversial in the US. There have been court cases arguing that the definition is uselessly vague.)

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    I don't know that I'd say it's a non scandal. I'm not buying into the whole "zomg worst drug evarrr" stuff, but at the same time it probably shouldn't be legal for sale.

    My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    Yall wrote: »
    I don't know that I'd say it's a non scandal. I'm not buying into the whole "zomg worst drug evarrr" stuff, but at the same time it probably shouldn't be legal for sale.

    MPDV was added to Schedule I by the DEA on May 1.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • denihilistdenihilist Ancient and Mighty Registered User, Moderator mod
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Before you talk about bath salts, you must be able to state, chemically, what the drug actually is.

    So far, nobody talking about how crazy the drug is has given any indication that they know what it is they're talking about.

    http://www.erowid.org/
    the problem is, as I understand it, that
    japan wrote: »
    the people selling them tweaked their synthesis process a little at a time until they'd worked their way through hundreds of distinct but similar compounds one at a time as they were individually banned.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    When I read some headlines a while ago, I though "Bath Salts" was just slang for a new type of drug, but it's actually over-the-counter bath salts? That you would put in a bath?

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    La Moyenne Mort
  • FeralFeral That's what I do. I drink, and I know things. Location: ByakkoyaRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    When I read some headlines a while ago, I though "Bath Salts" was just slang for a new type of drug, but it's actually over-the-counter bath salts? That you would put in a bath?

    No, they're not actually bath salts.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    My understanding is that they're usually mephedrone or methylenedioxypyrovalerone (yes I had to wiki that second one), or derivatives thereof.

    The UK basically banned the entire class of compounds to which they belong, along with a couple of others. That is to say, manufacture, sale, or possession of any of them is explicitly illegal, with the usual caveats for medical research and such. Otherwise, you'd end up in a stupid cat-and-mouse situation where the people selling them tweaked their synthesis process a little at a time until they'd worked their way through hundreds of distinct but similar compounds one at a time as they were individually banned.

    The United States has a similar legal mechanism - the DEA has broad power to summarily ban any substance that is an "analog" of another banned substance. (The legal definition of "analog" is somewhat controversial in the US. There have been court cases arguing that the definition is uselessly vague.)

    The analog law technically only applies to products intended for human consumption, so bath salts and incense products get around it on a technically(as they have warnings all over them saying not to consume them) and the chemicals must be individually banned. Which means the makers just need to tweak them a bit and put them in new package.

    Trying to stop people from getting fucked up is just such an idiotic undertaking. Legalize weed and coke and mdma, and I bet kids will stop playing guinea pig with shit that will fuck them up much worse.

    This machine kills threads.
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Feral wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    When I read some headlines a while ago, I though "Bath Salts" was just slang for a new type of drug, but it's actually over-the-counter bath salts? That you would put in a bath?

    No, they're not actually bath salts.

    They are "bath salts" (super finger quotes and a wink). kind of labeled as such, saying "DO NOT INGEST". a product named Spice went down this route for a while. The chemical itself was basically a synthetic that was found to have the exact same effect on the brain as marijuana, so they sprayed it on dried flowers, and sold it as "incense" with label of "do not ingest or smoke". You could in fact buy the chemical pure, and make your own "spice" or put it in tobacco for the same effect. Navy boys in VA got into alot of trouble around it, and some people would get stomach cramps and other side effects that werent great. A giant campaign to make it illegal started, but at the start of the year the chemical became category 1. They tried the "alter it slightly so its not illegal anymore" but theres a broad law on the books (at least in VA) that says you can't get yourself high on anything but alcohol. Alot of the concern was that drug tests didnt test for the chemicals left behind by it, so for the past few years you could be passing drug tests with flying colours(they can and do test for it now), and this was a major selling point for the above.

    Another problem with the above is that it was legal, lots of copycats sprung up, when it went illegal, they removed the illegal chemical, and are spraying whatever the fuck they can find on dried plants and selling it now. It's causing a hell of alot more health issues. People get sick from huffing random chemicals now thinking its synthetic pot, and if someone gets hurt the makers go "well, thats why you dont smoke it idiots"

    So the bath salt problem is actually alot bigger, and is going to become a "thing" with other products to come I am sure.

    DiannaoChong on
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