An update on recent technical problems and more from the admin: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/250292/on-technical-difficulties-mod-coverage-and-other-things/p1?new=1
Options
Developing a tabletop game, don't know how much cash I'll need
Inx
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
A friend of mine and I are developing a tabletop miniatures wargame. We've got the rules to a beta playtesting stage, we've got most of the crucial concept art, and it all adds up to being almost ready to start taking the next steps in development - specifically, finding sculptors and finding a production facility for the finished minis, as well as finding funding.
We know conceptually what we need to do, but the fact of the matter is that the two of us are finding ourselves hitting a wall because we don't really know where to LOOK for the next steps. The concept art was easy, because I know a lot of artists that do that kind of thing. Sculptors, at least -reliable- sculptors, I don't know. I've considered trolling deviantart but I'm worried about finding someone who will be easy to work with and will care about our overall vision for the game.
From there, neither of us really knows where to look for production of the minis themselves, which makes it hard to figure out how much money we'll need to get this thing going.
So what I'm hoping is that one of you guys might have some idea where we should start looking for these things so that we can figure out what kind of funding we'll need, and take the steps necessary to get that funding and move forward with the project.
The minis are going to need to be 32mm tall, which is an important detail, and we're looking to implement a fairly high level of customizability for certain models.
We know conceptually what we need to do, but the fact of the matter is that the two of us are finding ourselves hitting a wall because we don't really know where to LOOK for the next steps. The concept art was easy, because I know a lot of artists that do that kind of thing. Sculptors, at least -reliable- sculptors, I don't know. I've considered trolling deviantart but I'm worried about finding someone who will be easy to work with and will care about our overall vision for the game.
From there, neither of us really knows where to look for production of the minis themselves, which makes it hard to figure out how much money we'll need to get this thing going.
So what I'm hoping is that one of you guys might have some idea where we should start looking for these things so that we can figure out what kind of funding we'll need, and take the steps necessary to get that funding and move forward with the project.
The minis are going to need to be 32mm tall, which is an important detail, and we're looking to implement a fairly high level of customizability for certain models.
Inx on
0
Posts
This is not something you can do without a publisher unless you are obscenely rich or have a company's backing (read: money). You should try to pitch this to a company. For that purpose, getting a sculptor to hand-craft a set (I'd estimate it'll cost you maybe a thousand or two if you want quality) as a proof of concept can be a good idea. Their portfolio should generally be enough to show you the quality of their work, but if possible I suggest that you try to get a chance to touch one of their pieces - weight and texture are important.
Publishing an indie video game is a piece of cake next to this task. Good luck.
If it takes off, then you could sell the minis as a type of army upgrade.
I agree with this. Alternatively you could work on making it a battle set with parts compatible with Lego minifigures - they are pretty close in size (about 1.5" I believe) and there are plenty of customizers out there for Lego weapons/armor/equipment.
Not only do you need sculpts but you then need to build a mold based off of that sculpt. Unless you're doing small scale silicone casting stuff that's going to involve a bunch of digitizing work and then a bunch of metal work which means large large large initial capital costs. At least for traditional plastic molding.
Your best bet, assuming you can get the digitizing done, might be something like rapid prototyping or getting a Makerbot if you'll accept the look/resolution that gives you. The plus side on this is you might not even need the physical sculpts done at all. It could all be done digitally.
This is all assuming plastic minis. If your going more traditional metal then rapid prototyping stuff is not really an option.
If for some crazy reason you have your heart set on this you need to connect with someone who has already failed in this industry. This way you have a partner who knows what to NOT do. Find a good lawyer, incorporate to protect your assets, and then figure out how to kickstart your project in small stages so that your own money is not on the line.
Whatever you do, do NOT borrow money to get into miniature gaming.
If you had a complete, moldable CAD model for a single 32mm sized figure I could probably make you a mold for a few thousand. That's one dude with some tight restrictions on the geometry you could have. I assume you'd want significantly more. There are some slight economies of scale but that number isn't going to go down much for each additional figure.
If one of you is a bit computery then your own additive printer might let you run as a boutique kind of thing.
I like this idea as well. You can probably shop the rules to Drive-Thru RPGs and keep the book/maps as PDFs as well.
You're looking to cut costs where ever you can. And while it won't be as detailed, a "Block Warz" game could be fun.
It really depends on the size and quality of the sprues. GW famously dropped $250,000 just to make the molds for the Leman Russ tank sprues. Enough customizable plastic mini sprues for an entire wargame is going to take a lot of molds.
Just a point, that would be for an UK made mold. Assuming you were willing to offshore, and I was thinking that way, you could take a good chunk out of that. At that point you start talking about piece price versus initial investment and I would assume our buddy here would not be looking to move the volume GW does. That leads to paying less for the molds but more for the pieces (lower cavitation but greater press time required.)
Regardless, this is a really tough sell for anybody and I think we've made that point clear.
Then you can try to pitch the idea to existing companies or you could try a kickstarter.
Although you say the rules are still in a beta stage, so I'd get the rules fully worked out with stand-ins before committing to paying for actual figures.
Concur that you should get your rules beyond beta before committing to any kind of production. Use the proper sized bases for the minis and just put paper inserts on top of the bases to represent the models; this should let you accurately play and fine-tune the game with minimal investment.
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
Facebook: MeekinOnMovies
Twitter: Twitter.com/MeekinOnMovies
My 10 commandments of game reviewing
7 Great Games Playing Watch_Dogs will remind you of/url]
Far Cry 4: 10 Essential Features it Must Have
10 Videogames Ruined By The Hype
I think we were planning on metal minis, but I don't remember why exactly. I know it was because resin is out of our price range, but plastic might be too.
I wanted to clarify - part of the reason I'm asking this all NOW is because the beta stage could take a while, so I have some time to get all my ducks in a row on this. Didn't want to wait till beta was done to find out we need to wait on funding.
Someone mentioned punchouts, which is something we're actually gonna DO for the beta - see, once we have all the copyrights squared away, we're gonna release the beta rules as a free PDF, with a printable sheet of the concept art for each unit to use as proxies in the playtests. We figured this would not only give us the broadest testing pool, but get the name out there as well. From there, we were considering Kickstarter or Indiegogo.
We were NOT planning on taking out loans from banks on this one. We're not that silly. However, my parents aren't -rich-, but they're well off enough where my dad loaned my brother six or seven figures to get HIS business off the ground, so if all else fails I might be able to get some help on that end, if we can put together a strong enough product and business model.
We're crazy, I know, but we want to publish this ourselves. There's a link in my sig to our Youtube channel, Fearless Games, and we've all decided we'd like to turn our hobby into a business, and turn Fearless Games into an actual gaming company. This game is gonna sort of be one of our flagship products.
I recognize that we might fail and end up losing a lot of money, but I don't see that as a reason not to try. There's worse things in life, yanno?
Have you guys worked out what it is that will make your game not better, but different? Quality goes a long way, but the games that have been on top for the past, all the way back to 1970s Avalon Hill games, were the ones that stood out.
One thing we're very proud of is that individual games will be very quick, unlike larger games like Warhammer 40k which can take a couple of hours. We've got a system that allows a game to be played in as little as 30 minutes. Perhaps larger multiplayer sessions would take longer, but the idea was to make a game that you could set up and play quickly - this was partially influenced by my experiences with one of my ex girlfriends, who was quite demanding of my time. Sometimes a buddy can't stay longer than an hour, so to have a game you can play in less than that would be a great answer. If you have more time, you can play more games. You could play a small campaign in an afternoon, if you wanted.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I don't love the idea of 3d printing the models because we're hoping for a bit more detail than that, we'd need a 3d modeler, and we're looking for a good deal of customizability for certain models.
That was printed on the same printer I have and then painted by hand. I think it looks pretty detailed.
It looks like they charge a minimum based on the material and the volume of the model plus their time, and a markup to make some profit. and than you can set the price as anything above that.
http://www.shapeways.com/materials is the price estimator.
It might not be ideal, but when your just getting started it could work until you have a steady flow of income and can invest into a more mass produced method. That way you don't have to sink 10's of thousands into mold development right away.
This is almost word for word what I was going to say. It seems like 3d printing and kickstarter are custom made to get you off the ground once you have a polished proof of concept. For a proof of concept I suggest hand crafting things like the game board and any cards etc...for stand in minis find a line of similar minis in plastic like reapers bones, or go to any number of game sights and order meeples in bulk, or buy wooden tokens and paste your concept art onto them.. I know a few people who have made games with varying success....and one thing I can tell you for sure is that if the game is fun, the aesthetics won't matter until you are a good long way into the process.
Right now I intend on getting in touch with shapeways to find out just what kind of detail they can achieve on a 32mm model like this. If they can get what we need, or close enough to it, with 3D printing, we'll probably use them for at least our first sampling of models - a sort of "this is something of what the final product will look like" to show to potential investors/kickstarter backers.
I spoke to my best friend the other day, just kinda trying to work this all out with him as a sounding board, and he reminded me that one of HIS close friends, and a dude I've met a number of times, is a professional business consultant with an apparent connection with Steve Jackson. We might just bring this dude in, get his advice on how to build our funds, maybe get that Steve Jackson connect (even if just to have a connection with Steve fucking Jackson), and move forward from there. It's become clear to me that we do need the help of someone who better understands business operations. I'm confident that we could RUN the company, once the business model and plan and overall operations were hammered out and decided.