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Presidential Election 2012: Let's Debate.

StericaSterica Wow!That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
edited October 2012 in Singularity Engine++
There is a poll. You may vote on the TRUE candidates that government doesn't want you to know about. Votes aren't anonymous again because the government totally knows who voted for what anyways. It like, doesn't matter, man.

Notice: I got permission to do this thread. Behave yourselves or we'll lose it. This also does not mean that political threads are okay now.

Topics Probably Best Avoided
Your Not-Voting: you are not voting for Obama/Romney because they aren't True [Your Political Philosophy Here] and thus you are abstaining/voting third party to send a message. I'm not saying it's valid thing to do (or not do), but it generally causes silly fights and has a slim chances of convincing anyone.
Warble Warble Third Party: Voting for third party is a valid choice, and we don't need to get into big fights over whether or not it's throwing away one's vote. We're all impending victims of the corporate/communist machine anyhow, so who cares?
Fighting Over Politics: Getting into arguments over issues like guns, gay rights, or if Hamilton could beat up Chewbacca in a fight are generally the best way to get threads locked. This includes stupid shit like birthers.
Avoid the Echo Chamber: There will likely be one, maybe two people that are sincerely going to vote for Romney. Shit, there may be even three or four. These people are your fellow citizens, and still deserve a modicum of civility. Don't dogpile a person just because he or she is saying stuff your disagree with. If they you feel someone is being blatantly stupid to the point where they might trolling, then report their asses and move on.

Disclaimer: I am not an SE++ mod, and these are just general guidelines to help keep the thread healthy and happy. That said, I won't hesitate to toss any of you into the greedy, greedy jaws of the mods if you try to sabotage this thread with shit-headed shenanigans.

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Incumbents tend to enjoy an advantage in elections, though that applies more to congressional campaigns than the presidential ones. Particularly during rough economic times, it can be very disadvantageous to be the incumbent when your policies have either failed, been stymied by the opposition, or just haven't had time to show noticeable results yet.

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President Barack "The Islamic Shock" Obama
51 Years Old

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Vice President "Onion" Joe Biden
69 Years Old

Democratic Party
Strengths: Obama had a pretty strong campaign in 2008, able to draw in a lot of young and minority votes. He is also quite famous for his ability to deliver a speech, which will help on the campaign trail. A number of other accomplishments as president such as bringing down Don't Ask; Don't Tell, the Affordable Care Act, support of gay marriage, winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the death of Osama Bin Laden may earn him the votes of independents. Also, his running mate is not Paul Ryan.

Weaknesses: This is an economy election, and the economy has not improved to a point that will impress swing voters. Obama's other achievements will easily be eclipsed by this one point, and it will be difficult convincing people that his policies will work if he's given another four years. He has also left the liberal base feeling very cold at times by keeping Gitmo open, being too wishy-washy in contentious situations such as last year's debt ceiling fiasco, his use of drone strikes, and doing little to reverse the increased powers that the Bush Administration granted the office. This could easily kill the high youth vote Obama enjoyed in 2008.

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Challengers, while lacking the recognition of the president, enjoy being free from the burden of having any kind of presidential record to potential weigh them down. On the other hand, a fierce primary like the oddball GOP one of 2012 can dredge up a lot of ammunition for the opposition party.

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Massachusetts Governor Mitt "Mittens" Romney
65 Years Old

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Representative Paul "Psycho" Ryan
42 Years Old

Republican Party
Strengths: Romney's success as a businessman is seen as a plus by the general public when it comes to providing solutions to the economy. He's seen as more moderate than other members of his party, which can help woo independents. Romney also has a TON of cash being pumped into his campaign from various sources which, if it tops Obama's war chest, will allow the Romney camp better control of the narrative this election season. Paul Ryan adds charisma and hardline conservatism to the ticket. Hands-down has the best hair of either side.

Weaknesses: His base demands nothing less than ideological purity, perhaps moreso than Obama's base, and this could leave a lot of GOP voters staying home. The pick of Paul Ryan was good red meat for the base, but the McCain tried a similar strategy with Sarah Palin that led to disastrous results. His businessman veneer may not be so hot in an atmosphere that isn't too welcoming of rich corporate types, and Romney is hyper-rich to the point where he'll look cold and out-of-touch even when compared to the rest of these rich politicians.

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For those not familiar with the government of Eagle Land, the citizens were deemed "frightfully slow-witted" by the Founding Fathers and thus not allowed to directly vote for president. Instead, there's an electoral college that votes for president. Each state gets a number of electoral votes that are awarded to one candidate when he or she wins the state. The number of votes is some arbitrary number that George Washington came up with after a bar fight the total number of representatives and senators a state has. As a result, bigger states tend to be more popular (as representatives are determined by population, whereas senators are a static two per state). Technically, there is no guarantee that a member of the college has to vote in any particular way, but the party heads get to choose the voters so this is rarely a thing. I believe an elector voter abstained once as a purely symbolic gesture during the 2000 election.

So politicians want big states, but they're also realists and won't waste too many resources on "stronghold" states that historically vote for one party by a very margin. The two best-known stronghold states are California (Democrat) and Texas (Republican). As a result, the target is normally "battlefield" states that aren't polling strongly either way. So, thanks to the way things are set up, the votes in a vast majority of states don't really matter, and it boils down to a handful of states. This is, of course, the short run. States can and have gone from stronghold to battlefield and vice-versa, so you should vote anyways.

This year's battlefields look to be...

Virginia
Nevada
Iowa
Ohio
Florida
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin (Paul Ryan represents this state)
Massachusetts (typically Democrat, but Romney is their governor)
Minnesota
Colorado

All of these states voted for Obama in 2008, but that doesn't mean he can count on them this year. Also, it's still early in the season, so it's possible that these states might fall out of play as times marches on.

The magic number of votes to win is 270. If neither candidate can reach that amount, then they get greased up and wrestle. Best three out of five is the winner.

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Presidential Election 2012 or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Vote 153 votes

Kang
28%
Volucrisus AedriusButlerAbracadanielThanatosKevin CristNo Great NameErin The RedSanderJKSlacker71Salvation122tynicBroloAnarchy Rules!LanglyCaveman PawsMaximumA Dabble Of Theloniusqwer12jmcdonaldGumpy 43 votes
Kodos
39%
SporkAndrewSpectre-xKalTorakDer Waffle MousDarkness MundusForarSmashercaptainkFirmSkaterHoA-playerfightinfilipinocykoClint EastwoodCaulk Bite 6ShadowenNeoTomaKwoarurhylithmrpakuJayKaos 61 votes
Ross Perot
32%
HunterBarcardiNothingMunkus BeaverRinderMulysaSemproniusJasconiusHouk the NamebringermamoruStericahoodie13PerrsunDJ Eebstech_hunterButtersThatDudeOverTheretuggaFandyienBEAST!KetBra 49 votes
Sterica on
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Posts

  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    The police. Fuck 'em.

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    FandyienNeoTomaAntimatterShadowenAneurhythmiaEdith UpwardsToxMulysaSempronius
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    yes please

    Sexy-Police-Officer-Costume.jpg

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    AntimatterHarry DresdenSpeed RacerShadowenEdith UpwardsToxSkeithThe BetgirlForar
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    Request that Joe Bidens moniker be changed to "Onion".

    Shorty
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    Request granted!

    Also, I love that cartoon doodle of Biden even though it looks nothing like him.

    The coolest Biden.

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  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Request that Joe Bidens moniker be changed to "Bubba".

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    Bill was "Bubba"

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters
  • FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    Kodos
    i see nipples

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Kang
    Butters wrote:
    I'd also like to see what charities he's been sending his money too. I have a feeling Thanatos is right and most of it goes to the Mormon church.
    There's really no question that an awful of 2011's contributions went to the Mormon Church. They require a 10% tithe; I suspect most of the rest went into the church, too, because it allows him to deduct money for a group acting as a de facto arm of the Romney campaign.

  • DichotomyDichotomy Registered User regular
    lousy eggheads

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular


    what's the deal with this guy's grin the whole time

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  • SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    yes please

    Sexy-Police-Officer-Costume.jpg


    Hey.

    I used to own those boots.

    AntimatterTox
  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    Before we all dogpile on this guy, i think maybe he was talking about people reading books and magazines for entertainment at work? Like 50 shades or something? That is something generally frowned upon in basically any work place

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Before we all dogpile on this guy, i think maybe he was talking about people reading books and magazines for entertainment at work? Like 50 shades or something? That is something generally frowned upon in basically any work place

    sure but he didn't specify that they were reading recreational material

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  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Oh. Was hoping for a more statistical or predictive poll. Dunno what to do with this one.

    Still sticking with my original prediction all the way to the scene of the crash.

  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    look I'm pretty sure you can work out that when he said they were reading "books or magazines" he didn't mean they were studying for their jobs

    for fuck's sake, guys

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    look I'm pretty sure you can work out that when he said they were reading "books or magazines" he didn't mean they were studying for their jobs

    for fuck's sake, guys

    I don't have the confidence that you do.

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    ShortyForar
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    Kodos
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Oh. Was hoping for a more statistical or predictive poll. Dunno what to do with this one.

    Still sticking with my original prediction all the way to the scene of the crash.

    as in that is who you want to win or who you think will win?

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Think will win.

    Who I want to win is any team playing against the Ducks.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Kang
    Before we all dogpile on this guy, i think maybe he was talking about people reading books and magazines for entertainment at work? Like 50 shades or something? That is something generally frowned upon in basically any work place
    Yes, because if anything, Republican Congressmen have proven to us that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

    Especially when it comes to women's issues or anti-intellectualism.

    Shorty
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Sassori wrote: »
    Sassori wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    yes please

    Sexy-Police-Officer-Costume.jpg


    Hey.

    I used to own those boots.

    Unsurprising, really

    AntimatterKwoaru
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Before we all dogpile on this guy, i think maybe he was talking about people reading books and magazines for entertainment at work? Like 50 shades or something? That is something generally frowned upon in basically any work place
    Yes, because if anything, Republican Congressmen have proven to us that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

    Especially when it comes to women's issues or anti-intellectualism.

    I'm not sure why "deserving the benefit of the doubt" is even a relevant argument here, given what he says. If he had just said "those guys were reading magazines!!!" would it have mattered as much?

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    well yeah because there's still relevant stuff to read about in science magazines

    this guy probably should have gone out of his way to clarify that they were reading recreational material, right now it just sounds like he doesn't understand that reading is a large part of scientists' jobs

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    LegbaTankHammer
  • PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    Sassori wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    yes please

    Sexy-Police-Officer-Costume.jpg


    Hey.

    I used to own those boots.

    What about the handcuffs?

    Antimatter
  • LegbaLegba Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    On one hand, it sounds like he's talking about people doing recreational reading.

    On the other hand, if they're reading whatever their field's equivalent of The Lancet is, then that is well-spent time even if it looks like just some magazine-reading to the untrained eye.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Kang
    Also, we're making a big jump here in even assuming the guy is telling the truth.

    The Republican party hates the Department of Energy, even though their only answer for "how do we clean up the Hanford site without them?" is "free market!"

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    well hey now it's not fair to just assume the guy is outright lying

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    The way he relates his tale is that he was just walkin down the hallway and saw dudes reading books and magazines and got mad about it. The problem is that there's scenarios that'd make reading books and magazines while at work okay and he hasn't provided enough context to outline why we should be mad they were reading. It comes off as a hollow complaint that's meant to piss people who are already inclined to think the government is useless.

    -TalLegba
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    It just seems like a bit of a leap to look at that and go THIS DUDE FUCKIN' HATES READING!

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    but then how will the examiner get page views

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  • Mr. ButtonsMr. Buttons Registered User regular
    Kodos
    Legba wrote: »
    On one hand, it sounds like he's talking about people doing recreational reading.

    On the other hand, if they're reading whatever their field's equivalent of The Lancet is, then that is well-spent time even if it looks like just some magazine-reading to the untrained eye.

    If he provided any sort of specific name of a book or "magazine" that someone was reading I'll believe that first thought... but I'm thinking they were probably studies and journals... from what I understand, a relatively common thing to read in order to stay on top of the current information in a field.

    Legba
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Oh definitely, the sensationalist headline and slant devalues the argument by distilling it to make a point that doesn't really exist. It's basically a politician using anecdotal evidence to shame the government in a disengenuous way (what's new?), not a dude attacking reading or implying that scientists read too much.

    Opty on
    -Tal
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Ross Perot
    Yeah exactly. It seems crass to go FUCK YOU FOX NEWS YOU SENSATIONALISTIC FUCKERS and then when a site goes after someone you hate go "oh well I'm gonna take this at face value because fuck that guy." Note: this is not an endorsement of Fox News, because they are fuckers, but fuck, if you're gonna yell about conservatives buying everything they put out hook, line and sinker at least have some fucking self awareness.

    Fandyien-TalAgahnimLegba
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    Kodos
    the attack works because these people that believe him don't understand things like that scientists tend to do a lot of reading as part of their job

  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    that guy is pretty clearly not tarring everyone who reads books or some other obtuse way to say "republicans hate education"

    there are myriad ways the right has proven they are anti-intellectual and some dude calling the department of energy lazy just isn't one of 'em

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Fandyien wrote: »
    that guy is pretty clearly not tarring everyone who reads books or some other obtuse way to say "republicans hate education"

    there are myriad ways the right has proven they are anti-intellectual and some dude calling the department of energy lazy just isn't one of 'em

    They say that the Department of Energy isn't doing anything all the time!

    Also, I suspect anti-intellectualism because he makes the comment about the Department of Education.

    Fencingsax on
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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    he says that the decline of education in the US happened once the federal government started getting involved in it

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  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    Ross Perot
    it just seems reaching to me, it's not hard to find non-ambiguous reprehensible things said by republican representatives

    here have this one

    http://gawker.com/5937849/rnc-leader-says-governor-dishonored-general-custers-memory-by-meeting-with-american-indians
    That's why Republican National Committee leader and GOP lobbyist Pat Rogers has condemned New Mexico governor Susana Martinez for meeting with American Indians.

    In an email sent to Martinez' staff, Rogers wrote—

    "The state is going to hell. Col. [Allen] Weh would not have dishonored Col. Custer in this manner."

    Allen Weh was a Republican candidate who ran against Martinez.

    Rogers is the RNC National Committeeman for New Mexico and a recent member of the RNC Executive Committee. ProgressNow New Mexico is calling for his dismissal.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    -Tal wrote: »
    he says that the decline of education in the US happened once the federal government started getting involved in it


    I actually assumed that the DoED was older than it was, and assumed that it was involved in things it wasn't involved with. However, I did know that they don't do education curricula, except for No Child Left Behind, so that guy is still full of shit.

    Also, that isn't Fox News. That is a Senator.

    Fencingsax on
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