The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Loyalty to a Job
SilverEternity
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Long Version: I'm into my third year working at a high school. My position is the coordinator of an online credit recovery program; I have 30 students in a computer lab all day long. They work on online courses, I help them out when needed and monitor the administrative side of the software they use. I am a certified teacher, but my position is "administrator" (even though I feel that I do a lot more teaching than "administrating") and my paychecks come through a third party. The reason for my designation as an administrator (as well as being paid by a third party instead of the school district) and not as a teacher is for a few reasons, but the primary one is that the union contract requires that any teachers working for the district are paid by contract and receive the negotiated benefits (i.e. $$$). My pay is about 65% that of a teacher's salary and I receive no benefits. I adore my job and I feel reasonably well compensated for what I do (which is a lot less work than preparing lesson plans, grading, etc.) but I'm starting to feel frustrated about being in the 3rd year of a job with no benefits. I have health insurance through my husband, but I hate relying on that compared to us both having benefits available. My principal is awesome and has told me that if a position opens in my certification area that I would get the job.
I occasionally browse local school postings and saw that our local alternative ed high school is hiring a math/science teacher (my certification area). I feel really torn about applying. First, I love my job and I would be a bit worried about the increased stress relative to what I have now. I look forward to going to work everyday and I don't want to lose that. Second, I feel it would be viewed negatively by both the job I'm applying to and the school district I work for if I apply to a new job after the school year has already started. Do you think applying to a new job would burn bridges? Should I just talk it over with my principal and get his take on it?
tl;dr: I work at a school through a sub-contracted agency (no benefits) and am working for the third year in the same position. I'm thinking about applying to a contracted (full time with benefits) teaching position. Is it bad to apply for teaching jobs since I've already started the school year in my current position?
I occasionally browse local school postings and saw that our local alternative ed high school is hiring a math/science teacher (my certification area). I feel really torn about applying. First, I love my job and I would be a bit worried about the increased stress relative to what I have now. I look forward to going to work everyday and I don't want to lose that. Second, I feel it would be viewed negatively by both the job I'm applying to and the school district I work for if I apply to a new job after the school year has already started. Do you think applying to a new job would burn bridges? Should I just talk it over with my principal and get his take on it?
tl;dr: I work at a school through a sub-contracted agency (no benefits) and am working for the third year in the same position. I'm thinking about applying to a contracted (full time with benefits) teaching position. Is it bad to apply for teaching jobs since I've already started the school year in my current position?
SilverEternity on
0
Posts
If the only answer you get is "my hands are tied, the budget is as it is" or something to that effect, then by all means set thing in motion for the other job. Again, if the principal is as awesome as you said, he or she will be happy for you, and will probably gladly write you a glowing letter of recommendation.
Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
Also check out my old game design blog: http://stealmygamedesigns.blogspot.com
I have no doubt that you can handle teaching in your certification area, but you have something so enviable by so many (just read the other job threads round these parts). I think in the long run it will probably pay to hang on and wait for something with better timing. You could even end up with something at the school you already know you love just by waiting out the year. People have babies and announce retirement all the time.
They're taking advantage of you, and you don't owe them shit. There is absolutely zero reason for you to feel any loyalty to them whatsoever. And if you bail on them, you know what they're going to do? They're going to hire a substitute teacher for maybe a little more than they're paying you to take over for awhile until they fill it permanently. Which isn't your problem.
On the flip side, having an awesome administration to be working under is a really good position to be in for a teacher. How many math/science teachers are there at your current school? How old are they? Are any of them talking about moving away? Or is the "I'm going to give you the next thing that opens up" code for "you do this shit job really well, and we're not going to see another opening for ten years, so I've got nothing to worry about?"
The long and short of it is that your current job has pluses and minuses, but "loyalty" to your current school shouldn't factor in to your decision at all. You need to be looking at what is going to be best for you.
As far as the timing, if they're hiring during the school year, they can't really look down on applicants for applying during the school year.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Fuckin' A.
In the end, you have do what's best for you - the only one who will have your best interests in mind is you. You don't owe them any more than professional courtesy if you elect to leave. Give the proper notice, ensure that things will function after you've left, and that's it. That in of itself should prevent bridges from being burned, and if not - well, then you have the true measure of those whom you work for, and you're better off without them.
The only caveats I will say are: Don't do it if it would financially ruin you, be smart, time your leaving after an offer letter, etc, and don't disclose to anyone that you're interviewing at other positions. As a temporary and non-union employee, you are very easily removed if either the school or your contracting company catch wind. Be smart, keep the cards close to the vest.
I cannot emphasize strongly enough what a horrible fucking idea that is.
I guess part of the issue is that I've never had trouble finding a job so I'm always pretty confidence I could find another job if needed. However, I know finding a job and workplace you love is rare so I'm not as confident that I would find a job that would be comparable in that regard. When I took my current position I took a $15,000 pay cut (and gave up a health care / retirement plan) because I was miserable at my previous job.
+1. If you can do better elsewhere, go.
Now, if you really like your current job, that's something to consider as there is always a risk that you might not like the new job as much, and that's something you have to weigh in your cost benefit analysis. Loyalty to your current employer isn't. You have to look out for yourself, and if you're employer isn't professional enough to understand that if/when you leave, you are better of elsewhere anyways. Furthermore, if the place you are applying to didn't want people starting mid year, they wouldn't be putting adds out right now to begin with.
Short answer: You have to decide if it's worth the risk taking the jump to a new job, but I wouldn't worry about the timing too much.
And DON'T discuss it with your current employer until you have a solid offer at the very least. If the new job falls through, you are going to have a new employer that doesn't want you, and an old employer looking to replace you, which pretty much leaves you up a creek.
Just saying, it can be a little different in a school than in the private sector. Last year, for example, my department chairperson would notify me of any job openings that he heard about through his personal network. I later found out he was actively "shopping" me to other administrators that he knew of who had openings in their schools.
I was in a position that was officially temporary but was supposed to become permanent this year. Granted, it ended up being different because the position was eventually excessed after the end of the school year. However, at the point in time we were having these discussions, my chairperson said specifically that he wanted me back next (this) year but he also wanted me to make sure I had a job and didn't have to deal with uncertainty.
I wouldn't make a blanket statement in this case that you shouldn't speak with your administrators about the situation. It depends on the relationship you have with them. It still may turn out to be a bad idea, but you need to consider your situation and any previous discussions you've had with them.
That depends.
If you're a permanent employee I disagree.
But in this situation, Thanatos is right. You're a contractor. Do not tell them you're thinking of leaving. The lack of security for staying in the Job swings both ways.
I think that is what I'm leaning towards right now. Something at my school could open up at the end of the year and/or there could be a different opportunity available. I would also miss my kids (students).
Even though I'm a contractor I don't think they would want to replace me mid-school year just because they knew I was looking for another job (as long as I'm still doing my job well). I've already built relationships with the kids/parents and it would be difficult to have someone new come in.
Also, my principal has said in the past that he would be willing to write me a letter of recommendation if needed.
Thanks for all the responses!
The way you've laid it out, this isn't happening.
I mean if my company didn't let me go when there was no work coming in for me for example, that would be showing me loyalty
All I can see is that you have less pay and less responsibility than a teacher and no benefits. That is not "loyalty".
Satans..... hints.....
It's really not like a cubicle farm and people here seem to feel that she should act like it is. That's all very logical from one standpoint, and yet from another completely ignores the satisfaction she gets from those interactions as well as the messy "human emotion" factor that comes into play, which she has stated is very important to her, even though it'd be nice to have a better job. That's what we're talking about here. They didn't tell her she couldn't keep her jacket with her at fucking Best Buy.
When I was worked in a trade, the best advice I received was "Never sell yourself short. If you give your services for free, people will take advantage of that." Granted, you are not in a trade, but your story reads along those lines to me. You are working for less than what you are worth and therefore you owe your employer no real loyalty; as Thanatos pointed out, they are using a legal loophole to avoid paying you more. I know you mentioned that you get along well with the principal, but that friendship seems a little abusive from his end, given that he is responsible for that area of administration.
On the other side, having a job you enjoy is great and if you leave, you will definitely miss it and want it back when times are hard at another place. With that said, are you sure that you are not just going with what is easy, rather than what will actually be better for you and your husband in the long run? Anyone could find a job they love - I would love to still be a Journeyman Cook and working in that industry, much for the same reasons you stay in your current job - but it really comes down to where you see yourself in the future. Do you still want to be doing that job five years down the line, or even next year? If not, why keep doing it when you have the chance to better your position? (both financially and with regards to your occupational experience)
Oddly enough, I agree with Thanatos. Look into that other job, apply for it but tell no one. When you get your letter of acceptance, do what you are required to as far as giving notice and being professional. Even explain to the principal that you are doing what is best for you in the long run, and that continuing to not apply yourself and your skills will ultimately be detrimental to your intended career.
In the end, did you go through all the trouble of getting a teaching certificate and dealing with the financial load of university just to get paid lower than you are worth to work a job that can be filled by anyone?
No. You're showing them exactly the same commitment they're showing you. You should never feel bad for an instant about dropping a short-term contract job for a permanent position with benefits.
After you get a written offer of a permanent job elsewhere (and not before), you might, if your current employers have been decent towards you, ask them if they'll consider making you permanent. If they say no, then give them the minimum notice. If they say yes, then make your choice between the offers.
As said above, she's a bad financial quarter away from being tossed out with a week's notice and a leaving card with lots of nice messages in. Maybe a good reference if she's lucky.
The correct solution is to shop around for a good permanent role in order to gain leverage to get made permanent in the job she really likes. the OP has the luxury of being able to pick and choose rather than just take the first thing that comes along, but she should definitely be looking for more secure employment unless she has some fallback like living with parents or some such that will allow her to risk near-instant unemployment at any time.
But to be honest, if they were going to take her on, they should have done it by now. Commitment cuts both ways, and in this economic climate, not securing your financial position is flat-out irresponsible. It might be that they've just let things slide... but what does this say about her employers?
Which has fuckall to do with the loyalty she feels toward her coworkers and students, at the very least, and her employers' hands are tied by what is OPEN, because this is a SCHOOL. It's a matter of opinion whether or not she should move forward with this particular opportunity, but when she says she has "loyalty to the job," she has stated clearly that those are the things she is talking about. There is a human factor here. If you can't understand that then you are missing like half the OP to an inability to relate.
That said, I don't know how old you are but, when you're young I think the reality is unfortunately many of us don't find great jobs at first, but we build up a lot of experience trying to find it. I think if you're uncomfortable or not happy financially where you are it certainly doesn't hurt to look. And it definitely doesn't hurt to apply/have some meetings. Looking around isn't betrayal. Though I do understand the difficulty in leaving a school before the year's up, you just have to find a way to make that transition as smooth as possible (if it comes to that). If a potential new employer asks you to start right away just say you owe it to your current employer to give them some slack (frankly, a lot of places would appreciate that anyway, it's like a jedi test or something, that question).
But yeah, it's not like you're quitting your job before you've gotten another one, and it's not uncommon to apply for one job while sitting in another, so the talk about being financially irresponsible seems like a moot point.
I'm sure a lot of that was fairly obvious advice but long story short: you gotta follow your gut, and asking/looking/interviewing around certainly couldn't hurt. And in terms of loyalty itself, there are ways to leave without burning any bridges, you said yourself your coworkers ask about if you're looking for other jobs so they certainly understand it's tough financially, and if you go out slowly and with warning (i.e. NOT "SEE YA SUCKERS!") then I don't think there will be bad blood in the end.
The End (sorry for the long post)
100%.
I suspect teachers have a greater sense of loyalty to the job because their true loyalty is to the students, and they don't want to let them down. But the situation in the USA (I presume SilverEternity is there) means that anyone who does not have health insurance is literally risking their lives. Doing this to an employee shows a lack of respect and loyalty, and indicates that they regard SilverEternity as a temporary and disposable employee. If they wanted the loyalty of a teacher, they should pay and give benefits as a teacher.
But talking with the principal sounds risky without a job offer in hand, unless all the schools in the area have a network where they tell each other about teachers "shopping around." However talking to the principal about being upgraded to a full-time employee with benefits sounds like a good idea. Maybe they just forgot.
They didn't forget. The school district had to make 3 million in cuts this past year due to changes in state funding and they simply can't afford to hire me on full time. My principal has discussed this with me and all information about funding, salary, etc. is public.
Also as far as job security goes, my job is secure at least until June and then if something else doesn't open at my school I will look elsewhere.
When the rubber meets the road, they will throw you out on the street in a heart beat and leave you jobless if that's what's best for their career (personally) or the department (professionally). Keep that in mind at all times and act accordingly.
There is a lot that can happen in between your actually getting a job offer and today, so it's not really a question of "current job vs. new job" yet. For example, they may free up budget and hire you full-time, or they might get more budget cuts and be forced as a result of politics to let you go. Or, the school might burn down tomorrow and everyone will be fired. Considering the amount of time it can take people to find work nowadays, it's extremely important that you at least start searching and make the time investment sooner rather than later. As has been mentioned, you also may want to consider that a job offer may help you to negotiate a full-time position with the school if they realize that you actually do have other options and they really want to keep you long-term.